Comments on: Smart, vile, or hokey?

By: annelisefrench

annelisefrench — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 01:58:02 +0000

Marriage includes a lot more than sex, but sex is never intended to be shared with anyone other than my husband. It is exclusive, except at death.
I still stand by what I said.
I have intimate conversations with my girlfriends that I would never share with another man. So intimate conversations are not out of bounds, it just depends on who it is with. They share very sensitive things about themselves, so I don’t know what your point is. There can be close intimacy with other people that has nothing to do with sex. Sex is reserved exclusively for my husband.
An intimate conversation and a relationship with a man that excludes my husband would be setting up my marriage for failure.

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By: SteveG

SteveG — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 23:31:14 +0000

Is my scenario adultery? I think so. The emotional intimacy that you should have is being shared with another, without your consent. Perhaps he’s just sharing it, perhaps he’s actually taken it from you and given it to her. Either way, the marriage bond is compromised, I think.

But is that what you think? You say so now, but earlier, in #62, there was this:

Are you suggesting that the only purpose of marriage is to legitimize sex…
******************************************************************
I can do anything with anyone in the entire world that I can do with my husband, except have sex. He is the ONLY person that I do share that part of myself with.
Everything else is pretty much common ground if I so choose.

So, yes. That is correct.

By that definition, my scenario should not trouble you. It does, though, so it seems you do see that there’s more reason for marriage than just sex.

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By: annelisefrench

annelisefrench — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 16:21:53 +0000

No, of course I am not okay with this. Just like I wouldn’t be okay with my husband having a collection of porn, either.
I am not denying the intimacy, etc. that goes along with the sexual relationship. Sex is more than just the act, of course.
In guarding against adultery, I would not allow any kind of close female relationship with my husband that excluded me because that is just naive.
When does adultery become adultery? When it crosses the line into the sexual act. Would you consider your scenario adultery?
My original point stands. God designed us male and female, designed us with sexual desires and provided marriage as the place for that to happen. Nowhere else. And if a couple are faithful to each other they will find that they don’t need STD protection. It is when you step out of the boundaries of marriage, with premarital/extra-marital sex that you will find all kinds of trouble, physically and emotionally.

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By: SteveG

SteveG — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:59:25 +0000

Annelise, here’s the test: Imagine that your husband developed a close relationship with another woman. He shared secrets with her that he shares with few other people … maybe even tells her a thing or two that he’s not told you.

They spend a lot of time together, sometimes meet for dinner or a movie. When she feels lonely at midnight, sometimes she calls him at your house and they talk for an hour. Maybe you even hear him say “I love you” at the end of the call.

BUT … they’re not having sex (and you know this for certain.) They are not physically intimate in any way and have no plans to become so.

Are you ok with this? Because if sex is really the only difference between a marriage and another sort of relationship, you should be.

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By: SteveG

SteveG — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:12:21 +0000

Annelise: I resist revealing too much of my personal history on this site because it’s just not your business. For the sake of this discussion though, I will say I have been married in the past, and I will be married in the future.

I also have lived long enough and deeply enough to understand the difference between a partner who shares your life on a deeply intimate level and “anyone in the entire world.” Despite your high-handedness, I am not sure that you do.

As for your comment in #66: I don’t disagree with that. I AGREE that abstinence until marriage and faithfulness within marriage is the best way to prevent disease (though again, I find it kind of sad that that seems to be your strongest reason).

What I don’t agree with you on is that it’s effectiveness as a personal health measure means it’s the only morally right path. Nor is it always as easy a path to take up and stay on as you seem to imagine.

And I’m not just talking about the strength of the sex drive, although that’s part of it. But even people who decide to take that course are depending on other people to facilitate it. What if your husband abandons you? Or dies? If you find yourself a young widow or divorcee, you’ve lost your chance to confine sex to only one person for life, unless you decide to spend the rest of your life celibate … which would be a hard road for most. (And at this point you lose the ability to invoke fear of disease as a motivator, because it’s no longer possible to be a virgin marrying a virgin.)

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By: annelisefrench

annelisefrench — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 08:28:51 +0000

You aren’t married yet?
Then what you are telling me is what you imagine it would be like?
Nuff said.

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By: annelisefrench

annelisefrench — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 08:19:58 +0000

On the other hand, sometimes planes crash when nobody does anything wrong at all, because, they just do sometimes.

Maybe.

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By: annelisefrench

annelisefrench — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 06:32:55 +0000

On the other hand, sometimes planes crash when nobody does anything wrong at all, because, they just do sometimes

And your point?
How exactly to do you propose to choosing your partner(S!) carefully?
Doctor’s note? Exam? Their word? PI? What if they have HIV and don’t know it yet? What if they lie to you? Are you willing to take that risk?
How many partners do you think is a reasonable number to have, by the way? And when is that number too many?

I had to choose just one partner, my husband. If we continue to choose each other, we will not have to worry about STD’s or protection.
Nothing is fail-safe as far as protection. Condoms do not protect from HIV completely, as per the CDC website…

“It should be noted that condom use cannot provide absolute protection against HIV. The surest way to avoid transmission of HIV is to abstain from sexual intercourse or to be in a long-term mutually monogamous relationship with a partner who has been tested and you know is uninfected.”

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By: SteveG

SteveG — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 23:05:06 +0000

Annelise: You can expect to have diseases when you step outside the boundaries that God designed for sex. It’s that simple.

And yet, many many people have sex outside of marriage, even with many partners, and never get a disease. Because they take the needed steps to prevent them, and that does the job 999 times out of 1,000.

So actually, you can expect NOT to have diseases if you choose your partners carefully and take some precautions such as using condoms.

On the other hand, sometimes planes crash when nobody does anything wrong at all, because, they just do sometimes.

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By: SteveG

SteveG — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 23:01:38 +0000

Annelise: I can do anything with anyone in the entire world that I can do with my husband, except have sex. He is the ONLY person that I do share that part of myself with.
Everything else is pretty much common ground if I so choose.

So, yes. That is correct.
What makes marriage unique in your corner of the world? What do you do in your marriage that you don’t do and wouldn’t do with someone outside of it?

There’s a LOT more to intimacy than sex. I would share a much greater depth of my inner thoughts, fears, desires and worries with my one intimate partner — and future wife — than with “anyone in the entire world.”) Even my parents and closest friends don’t get the level of access to my heart, soul and mind that that one person does.

If you really believe sex is the only differentiator between a marriage and any other relationship, I feel sorry for you.

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