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Passing on the parachute
Although he only served a matter of months before getting the boot, former American International Group CEO Robert Willumstad is still eligible for a $22 million severance package. But the 63-year-old isn’t taking it, saying he prefers “not to receive severance payments while shareholders and employees have lost considerable value in their AIG shares.”
Will executives of other troubled institutions follow suit? Not likely, says Robert Reich, the former U.S. labor secretary under President Clinton and a professor of public policy at the University of California at Berkeley: “I don’t think anyone should really count on CEOs voluntarily forgoing anything. Why should we accept a sudden conversion on the part of America’s CEOs, especially financial executives who have been raking in so much money over the last decade.”
Executives of companies participating in the government bailout might not have a choice in taking a cut, though. Some legislators are pushing to limit how much compensation they receive.
back to top50 Comments to “Passing on the parachute”
I don’t think we should limit their compensation as a general rule.
I do think that if their company goes under because of incompetent or corrupt management, that their compensation should be commensurate with what the shareholders are getting….
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OK, Who knows why AIG failed?
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Hint:
It wasn’t their insurance business…..
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I’d say since he created or at least presided over this mell of a hess to begin with, that CEO has quite a lot of ’splainin’ to do, no??
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OK, Who knows why AIG failed?
Wait, let me put on my Llama Hat:
AIG failed because of:
1. Whack Jobs
2. Clinton
3. Democratic Congress
4. Obama
5. Minorities
I think I covered it.
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Lester, did you NOT hear Rush Limbaugh’s explanation of how this whole big magilla transpired?
I figure you didnt.
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Sawgunner - I don’t need Rush Limbaugh to tell me. AIG was an insurance company. They have a pretty simple job. Let me lay it out for you:
1. Ensure you price your risk correctly
2. Ensure you can pay out claims when needed (ie, invest conservatively)
3. Sit back and collect the spread
It’s real easy to be an insurance company as long as you don’t get too greedy. The spread is the difference between what your customers pay you and what you pay them via claims.
AIG made a mistake of getting into the proprietary trading business that had a big stake in CDOs. When AIG went down, it was leveraged 11-1. That’s insanity. There is no reason why an insurance company should be leveraged like that. None.
That’s the problem. If Rush told you differently, then he’s wrong.
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#3 Lumpy,
Is wrong as usual. It was all about their insurance business. That is what they do. An assumption they made, that was erroneous, turned out to just kill them - like t=it does so many other very talented and experienced entities and people - just like Lumpy’s erroneous assumption just did - only he is not talented or experienced.
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Lester is wrong too - as usual. Leverage of 11 to 1 is not unusual at all - it is quite common adn many completely sound banks woulf llove to have 11-1 leverage. Most individuals are leveraged at higher rates than that if they have a home mortgage of $120,000 and a net worth of $10,000 in the bank (12 to 1).
All banks in thes country are regulated by the federal Rswserve to not have leverage over 25 to 1.
See. Lefties do not even know why things happen but they seem to think they know how to fix it.
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Sawgunner,
I don’t listen to Rush but I am sure he knows why AIG failed. Why? because he finds out what the facts are and tests his assumptions for truth before he draws a conclusion.
He too is a llama and we come from a part of the country very close to each other - the show me state. It’s not called the tell me state. The part of the country idiots fly over and think doesn’t know much. But that is another one of their untested assumptions that is very wrong.
Hey I’m listening to CNBC and a senator just asked a question that stated why AIG failed. It was a Republican though. They must have been listening to Rush too
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Aint it just a hoot to hear long-term incumbent Senators or Congressmen–they with their own plush retiremt pensions, superb health insu and whopping salaries– bad mouth the “greedy CEOs” of various private businesses?
Few of you will ever make even half the annual income of a Chris Dodd or Barney Fwank.
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Lester is wrong too - as usual
Llama is wrong once again. I challenge Llama to show me an insurance company that is leveraged 11-1 and had billions in CDOs. Remember, AIG is not a bank. It is an insurance company.
Please Llama, give me some facts. Show me the leverage for USAA - they are a big insurance company. How about State Farm?
I can guarantee you they aren’t leveraged 11-1 because of proprietary trading.
Llama is nothing but a Walter Mitty. A guy who supposedly has his own company, flies around the nation and makes millions playing his little TALARI scheme. Yet he is watching CNBC.
More likely a shut-in than anyone of importance.
Remember AIG was an insurance company, not a bank. I can’t believe Llama didn’t know that.
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The yellow rag Arizona Republic headline today is Bush, Dems Haggle over Bailout Plan.
Well, someone should tell these propaghandists that no Democrat is calling Bush on the phone over this and if they did - he wouldnlt take the call.
The Dems in congress are all on their own on this. They know it and they wouldn’t want it any other way. Only they have the power to fix it and they are going to fix it their way with no consultaion with the political right whatsoever just like always. They know Bush has nothing to do with this and doesn’t have a vote.
Only whack jobs do not know this.
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You mayfind this of interest:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/23/paul.bailout/index.html
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Llama - so you when are you going to answer my questions? What is State Farm’s leverage? Why aren’t they in trouble?
Why do you think AIG is a bank?
You never posted why AIG is in trouble. I told you why: they got burned in the CDO market. Trying to make fast money - something insurance companies shouldn’t be doing.
Bush may not have a vote, but he has a plan. He said so himself. Why do you think otherwise?
Do you understand how the government works? Do you realize Paulson works for Bush and the Treasury falls under the Executive Branch?
Do you know Paulson has a plan? A plan he probably ran past his boss, Bush?
If you think the President has no powers, then why do you care if Obama is elected?
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Llama, one often unremarked cause of AIG’S failure has to do woth mark to market accounting rules that caused AIG to mark their cedit default swaps so low that they got caught up in a cash-flow crisis in the middle of a major credit crunch. This is one of the reasons that Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, and Merrill changed to bank holding status which gives more flexibility in market to market.
Otherwise, it has to do with the lowering of mortgage cedit standards traceable mainly to Congress and Fannie Mae. See this Wsj article today, Blame Fannie Mae and Congress
For the Credit Mess , that leads as follows:
Many monumental errors and misjudgments contributed to the acute financial turmoil in which we now find ourselves. Nevertheless, the vast accumulation of toxic mortgage debt that poisoned the global financial system was driven by the aggressive buying of subprime and Alt-A mortgages, and mortgage-backed securities, by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The poor choices of these two government-sponsored enterprises (GSEs) — and their sponsors in Washington — are largely to blame for our current mess.
How did we get here? Let’s review: In order to curry congressional support after their accounting scandals in 2003 and 2004, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac committed to increased financing of “affordable housing.” They became the largest buyers of subprime and Alt-A mortgages between 2004 and 2007, with total GSE exposure eventually exceeding $1 trillion. In doing so, they stimulated the growth of the subpar mortgage market and substantially magnified the costs of its collapse.
Bear and mind that Bush with strong support from McCain attempted a major reform of Fannie Mae in 2004 but were blocked by the likes of Frank, Dodd, and Pelosi along with a few spineless Republicans.
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Peter - don’t blame anyone but AIG. Insurance companies shouldn’t have gotten into the CDO business. They are first and foremost an insurance company. Creating businesses that dabbled in the paper swaps sure looked good at the time, but cost them dearly.
Should an insurance company be taking risks like that? Heck no. And if anyone should know that, it should be an insurance company. They are supposed to mitigate risk, not leverage it.
Like I said, a good insurance company invests conservatively to ensure it can pay its claims and take profit from the spread.
Anything else is just bad decision-making.
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Llama has yet to answer my questions. That figures. He still may think AIG is a bank.
I’ll one of my own:
Here are the leverage ratios for some other big insurance companies:
Markel - 4:1
Travelers - 4:1
Chubb - 4:1
Montpelier Re - 2:1
AIG was 11:1. Ridiculous.
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If teh feds are going to have to come in and bail a company out, any executive packages should have to be limited as a part of the deal.
If the exec won’t forego promised/contracted comp, the fed shouldn’t bail out the company.
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#18 Lester,
I know you think I am at your beck and call but let be first one to tell you I am not. Unlike some, I have work to do and a business to run while I watch our idiot senators ask Paulson and Bernanke stupid questions that only show they too, like you, have no idea what is going on or how to fix it.
I also didn’t want to answer you figuring you would continue to open you mouth and remove all doubt as to your competencies and foolishness and wanted to give you a little more rope. Thank you for proving my reluctance to answer you a wise course of action. patients comes to those who wait a long long time. So as you wait for my answers it will give yo time to try to figure out what the real truth is - since it is very far from you at this point. But, rest assured, don’t worryu,I will answer you in my own due time.
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Whatever, Mitty. You proved your foolishness when you compared AIG to a bank. AIG is an insurance company, not a bank.
Have fun running Make Believe, Inc.
patients comes to those who wait a long long time.
I guess grammer is something that doesn’t. The word is “patience,” not patients.
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FYI - my spelling of grammer was intentional. I thought you might catch the joke, but you thought AIG was a bank, so I better not chance it
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Lester,
I didn’t compare AIG to a bank. I said AIG’s leverage of 11-1 was not what did it in as you claimed. A much smaller leverage would have done it in too. I used the leverage at banks and personal leverage to show that leverage itself is not the problem. But there is a problem, it is just not leverage.
AIG is also not just an insurance company any more than you could say GE is an electric company.
Credit Default Swaps are like insurance policies they just have a different name. They just have a different name. Someone who fears an outcome, pays another company to hedge the effects of this outcome. In business fire insurance, a business owner that fears the financial loss a fire would cause if his offices burned down, pays a fee over a term to another company to pay it for the fire loss. A credit default swap does the same thing for anyone who owns debt. If you loaned money to someone else but fear they will not pay you back, you pay a fee to another company over a term to make you whole if the person defaults on the debt to you.
There is no reason in the world why AIG should not have been selling Credit Default Swaps like they do any other insurance. It is also not correct to call CDS’s or those that sold them bad or evil either, unless you think that car, fire, health and life insurance, and those that sell them, are bad too. Then you would be a nut. OPPPSSSS. Sorry to let that out of bag
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Lester
‘but you thought AIG was a bank.’
No, I didn’t think that AIG was a bank. Who would do that? But those that thought I did think AIG is a bank made an ereroneous assumption that led them to horribly bad conclusions as usual.
In fact, anyone who who even thinks that someone would believe that AIG was a bank, needs to take a deep look into themselves to try to find out why they are so differnt than normal people.
You are one of those and I will be praying for your success.
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Llama - all the insurance companies I listed above have smaller leverage ratios. None of them are at risk of default and are not getting bailed out by the U.S. government.
AIG is also not just an insurance company any more than you could say GE is an electric company.
Exactly my point. AIG got greedy and started to “branch out” into risky CDOs and other paper debt products. A company like GE can absorb more of that risk than AIG. AIG is primarily an insurance company and shouldn’t shoulder such risk.
Remember, insurance companies are in the business of mitigating risk.
There is no reason in the world why AIG should not have been selling Credit Default Swaps like they do any other insurance. It is also not correct to call CDS’s or those that sold them bad or evil either, unless you think that car, fire, health and life insurance, and those that sell them, are bad too. Then you would be a nut. OPPPSSSS. Sorry to let that out of bag
Once again, Walter Mitty shows how foolish he really is. If this is the thing insurance companies are supposed to do, then why aren’t other insurance companies failing?
That’s right, they didn’t get into the risky derivative business.
But don’t argue with me anymore, take it up with the WSJ. Even they agree with me.
I for one and done with attempting to reason with you. It’s been real, Mitty. I figure you will be my boss sometime soon - someone making millions with your business and TALARI will eventually takeover everything. Once you are my boss, then I guess I will have to interact with you
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One thing is for sure.
We are now experiencing trickle down Socialism on a grand scale. The last bastion of capitalism is dying a slow death.
It is best to start reading French Poems and collecting German music.
I knew it was over when Newt Gingrich said last night the #1 thing that had to happen was the removal of Mark to Market valuations for CMB’s and nearly the first thing out of Paulson’s mouth in his Senate testimony this morning was that he believed that Mark to Market valuations needed to remain in place when asked by the first Republican.
Obviously, when the President’s man, who had to know this question was coming, rolled over and agreed with the left on this most important issue - there is no question creeping socialism is in charge as it was during the depression of the 30’s.
Hold on to your hat Martha. It’s going to be a wild ride. These Socialists didn’t have a clue how to solve the financial problems of the 30’s any more than they do today. The depression lasted 12 years in the 30’s and who knows how long they will keep this mess in place with them in charge. It took WW 2 to solve that problem for them.
Buy Euros and gold on the dips. We are heading for very bad territory sooner rather than later. These idiots want to go home by this weekend for another vacation.
After the testimony today, if the American public does not require that our elected officials make the same salary as the average American worker, $38,000 a year, because they have driven us $11 trillion into debt, then we need our heads examined. If their recommendations are good enough for CEO’s who they are trying to blame or a crisis our elected officials created, it is way good enough for them.
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I knew it was over when Newt Gingrich said last night the #1 thing that had to happen was the removal of Mark to Market valuations for CMB’s and nearly the first thing out of Paulson’s mouth in his Senate testimony this morning was that he believed that Mark to Market valuations needed to remain in place
Wow. I actually agree with that.
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PPSSST …. Don’t tell this to Lester,
In order for really good companies (like CAT did today), to float their new primary corporate debt into the market at an acceptably low interest rate, these companies will go out and purchase Credit Default Swaps on their Primary Debt to give to the new loan holders. This helps guarantee the loan should it go into default and makes the offering more attractive to investors.
Because the markets are so messed up and AIG is out of the market, the credit default swap spread is widening and CAT had to pony up much more for them they would have had to even a month ago.
This does this mean that those insurance companies that issued the CDS’s, or those that will end up with them when they take on CAT debt on in Primary Market or CAT executives themselves are bad or evil - as some might believe erroneously.
The CDS market is $43 trillion dollars. Yes trillions. The entire net worth of America is some $60 trillion or so last time I looked. So, 60% of the entire net worth of America is covered by CDS’s. That is very comforting. If the net worth of America was no worth much, then you couldn’t insure it for much either.
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This issue has highlighted the fact that we’re really handicapped by who we send to Congress to make our laws and regs.
What, about 70+% of all our lawmakers are attorneys? No offense to them, but I highly doubt drafting divorce decrees, handling “slip and trip” lawsuits or doing DWI defense work has prepared any of those folks for all the intricate arcane details of this banking/insu “crisis”.
Barney Frank and Chris Dodd Almighty probably don’t have that much more insight into this crisis than you or I.
Is that not just a little discomfitting?
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I see Newt has echoed some of my concerns:
Implementation of the Paulson plan is going to be a mess. It is going to be a great opportunity for lobbyists and lawyers to make a lot of money. Who are the financial magicians Paulson is going to hire? Are they from Wall Street? If they’re from Wall Street, aren’t they the very people we are saving? And doesn’t that mean that we’re using the taxpayers’ money to hire people to save their friends with even more taxpayer money? Won’t this inevitably lead to crony capitalism? Who is going to do oversight? How much transparency is there going to be? We still haven’t seen the report which led to bailing out Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. It is “secret”[?] Is our $700 billion going to be spent in “secret” too? In practical terms, will a bill be written in public so people can analyze it? Or will it be written in a closed room by the very people who have been collecting money from the institutions they are now going to use our money to bail out?
I find it funny that Newt is railing against the secrecy of the plan, when he defended Bush’s “secret” energy plan. What’s the difference, Newt? Or are you just now waking up to the fact that secrecy shouldn’t apply outside of national defense arena?
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I worry that the government may not honor the two-year sunset provision in this deal if it goes through. Once they have control, they won’t want to give it back.
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Roll Call Reports:
White House Dispatches Team to Push Economic Bill
The White House today is drumming up extraordinary pressure on Congress to approve its plan to enact a $700 billion mortgage bailout fund, suggesting the markets cannot wait much longer and dispatching Vice President Cheney and other top officials up Pennsylvania Avenue to jawbone lawmakers.
___________________________________________________________________
[White House Deputy Press Secretary Tony] Fratto said it would be “unthinkable” for Congress not to pass legislation this week, asserting the result would be a “very, very serious situation” for the U.S. economy.
___________________________________________________________________
Fratto insisted that the plan was not slapped together and had been drawn up as a contingency over previous months and weeks by administration officials. He acknowledged lawmakers were getting only days to peruse it, but he said this should be enough.
__________________________
So why wasn’t this legislation drafted WITH congress? Why is it now an emergency that they are supposed to just hand over the cash? Something really stinks here.
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With respect, Sawgunner, take some time to read the law profs over at the Volokh. They have some interesting ideas about this, so I suspect that some of the lawyers in Congress (not all) will understand enough of what’s going on to vote. You’d be amazed at what some lawyers know, many have numerous degrees. Are those in Congress? Probably not.
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I read something at the Volokh and that was that Bernanke and Paulson admitted that this deal is just a stop gap and that it might not stop a recession in the long run.
We’re all praying, right?
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#28 Sawgunner,
No offense to the lawyers out there, like NJL, but the old joke is ‘What is the prerequisite for being a politician? You have to be a crooked lawyer first.’
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Well, Since Monday When the Dems started their stalling tactics on the $700 billion financial bailout bill that only they can pass, you know, the one that Bush is begging them to pass quickly, the stock market has lost more than that in value and we are closer to a recession and horrible consequences for main street. By the time these nitwits act, we will all be dead broke, out of work and wishing we were dead instead.
Never forget the truth, Wall street is Main Street - in the end. Who said the Business of the USA is Business?
Never ever forget that fact. These lefty socialists and Marxists are now beyond stealing your money and assets from you, they now are playing with your life.
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#30 Lester,
i am glad you are finally reading someone who is not a whack job and one of the best political minds on the planet - Newt Gingrich. What at great name this man has. Anyone that has New, Gin and Rich in it can be all bad.
You left out the beginning of Newt’s thoughts though. When asked what he would do to fix this, he said that he would immediately scrap FASB 157, the Mark to Market accounting rule which would instantly refinance the financal services market, without a need for ma bailout. He is a smart man that knows what the Dems are coming up with is nothing more than a $700 Billion Trickle Down chunk of socialism and Newt is stunned, as I am that any Capitalist would support such a thing. We can only hope that better and cooler minds get their brains around this bailout before that sucking sound starts again.
The Markets financial, credit and insurance sure didn’t like what they heard today either. It is a shame Newt is too smart to run for President.
Newt is my favorite since he is much like a llama fincially and politically.
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No offense taken, Llama. Not only would I not run for office, but I do my best NOT to vote for lawyers. They usually have no concept of what it is like to live a normal family life or the pressures that normal people face.
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My favourite socialist, Naomi Klein, author of the Shock Doctrine, wrote an article which reflects my opinion and the danger of the Congress giving a blank cheque to Paulson.
Well, that shock has certainly arrived, along with gloves-off attempts to use it to push through radical pro-corporate policies (which of course will further enrich the very players who created the market crisis in the first place…).
for more http://www.commondreams.org/view/2008/09/23-1
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In an other good article, newsday points out that this bailout is not the urgent action which will help recover Wall Street as claimed by Paulson. Instead a fundamental reform of banking regulations is needed — a starting point would be to reinstate the regulations repealed by Gramm.
http://tinyurl.com/4cobxm
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Lester,
Since you don’t like AIG, I guess you didn’t buy it with the smart money when it was $1.25 a couple of days ago - before the bailout was announced? It closed over $5 today. Professionals love the panic and fear in the market. I love it when they say the market doesn’t like uncertainty and the market is uncertain. It’s like someone taps on the shoulder and says, there is money to be made. It’s like the dot com bubble bursting.
Today there was at least a 750 point swing if you count the ups and downs. Talk about opportunity. Just think what it would be like if they would not have banned shorts. At least they didn’t ban puts
Keep you powder dry and get ready to buy UYG calls as soon as the lefties can get off their arses and actually do something that we will hold them accountable for later. I’m guessing probably Friday sometime. Lefty government required warning - Socialists need to invest at their own risk. Do not blame llamas for your stupidity or doing what he says. Llamas don’t like lefties much or suffer fools well so if you are lefty - beware
Wouldn’t it be great if the lefties couldn’t decide squat till next week? Whoohooo!!!
It is cool that some firms are requesting to taken off the no short SEC list. If they get off - short them - with puts immediately - until the bailout is done.
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No Llama, I didn’t buy it. I don’t play the market in that fashion. Glad you made money in it and I don’t fault you for it. Have at it, hoss. I’ve got plenty of money to keep me and my family comfortable and happy, thanks to prudent investing in stocks, bonds and real estate. I haven’t let greed get the best of me and don’t wish for more than I need.
My 1993 RCA TV broke a couple of months back. Circuit City and Best Buy tried to get me to buy a new $1200 LCD TV. Outrageous if you ask me. I went on Craigslist and found a guy selling a JVC CRT made in 2005 for $50.
If I want to see a game in HD 1080p, then I’ll go to my neighbor’s and bring a six pack. Much cheaper than buying a piece of junk that will be outdated by 2010. If not sooner.
There’s more than one way to skin a cat, as I’m sure you know.
I don’t know why you think I don’t like AIG. I simply think they made a poor business decision. And now they are getting bailed out. What a grand country. In America, you have one party, the Republicans, against social welfare. There are no parties, Republican or Democrat, against corporate welfare.
If I default on a loan or lose my shirt in a bad investment, I’m screwed.
If AIG does it, I’m screwed as well.
I guess I should look into incorporating myself: Lester LLC. Then I can count on a taxpayer bailout if I do something stupid.
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The senators grilling Paulson and Bernanke today had some really telling and very funny moments that went beyond their normal insane selves. The second silliest question, the lefty Senator will remain unnamed, wanted to know why private enterprise couldn’t be part of this government plan. Paulson was so stunned he didn’t know what to say for the longest time. The second silliest question was also by a liberal whack job who wanted to know if Wall Street owed an apology to the American people.
You just can’t fix stupid.
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Wow,
Warren Buffet just invested $5 billion in Goldman. Goldman also announced they were selling $2.5 in new stock. Well, now every bank in the world will be selling new stock and wish they had Warren buying their perpetual preferred stock that they would create for him. Way to go Warren - you are a Patriot. Buffet proves not all lefties are whack jobs by the way but, if you aren’t him, then…….Well you get the drift
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#42 Lester,
‘I haven’t let greed get the best of me and don’t wish for more than I need.’
Very wise indeed Lester. The best way to get what you want is to give up wanting it so much adn just do tehings it tales to get it instead. The hardest thing to learn is ‘when is enough, enough?’ I didn’t buy AIG stock either. I’m not that risky and hardly ever buy stock in any company as a result. But tahat is noit a hard fast rule either. I’m a very low rick put and call man that wishes I would have bought more AIG calls. But when the chances are you will lose everthing on that bet, you don’t bet very much adn only what you can easily afford to lose.
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Lester,
Your assumption that Republicans are against social welfare is incorrect. We are against public social welfare that goes beyond a hand up and becomes and perpetual hand out. Even Bill Clinton felt this way since he held the left in check, as he turned his back on those that elected him and single handedly reformed this country’s welfare system. No Republican could do that and Clinton is to be commended.
Republicans give billions of dollars in charitable gifts to organizations that perform most of the welfare in this country too.
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Well, the Dems saw this coming, and they had control of Congress — the place where legislation is passed, but I guess the election meant more than the people…..
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Personally, I think actors, rock stars, atheletes, and former presidents get paid way too much for what they do and Congress should step in and control how much they can make. Have you seen how much a good seat to an NFL game costs in some stadiums? It’s an outrage! And what about the cost of movie tickets for a family of four, ridiculous! Contact your representative now and let’s stop the insane salaries of those that are paid to entertain us! They have no right to make the millions they make annually off of us poor folk.
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I’m still laughing that Lester made fun of Llama because of a misspelling error (BTW, not a grammatical error, as Lester stated) and then misspelled “grammar.”
LOL!
Chalzz: I think the government should regulate the price we pay to go out to eat as well, since my favorite restaurants charge WAY more than the cost of all the ingredients combined!
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I’m still laughing that Lester made fun of Llama because of a misspelling error (BTW, not a grammatical error, as Lester stated) and then misspelled “grammar.”
You’re laughing because your dumb. I did it on purpose. FYI - Llama’s wasn’t a misspelling error. It was grammatical. He used the wrong word in the wrong place.
Llama - to me at least, social welfare involves the government. Private welfare is something different. I’m all for private welfare.
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