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	<title>Comments on: Gays can marry in Connecticut</title>
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		<title>By: Xion</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/10/10/gays-can-marry-in-connecticut/comment-page-4/#comment-356378</link>
		<dc:creator>Xion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 04:06:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>#160 Frank, Jesus did not destroy the law or the prophets - HE FULFILLED THEM.  Fulfilled means completed, done, finished.  The law and the prophets provide a testimony of God&#039;s grand plan.  As Gal 3:24,25 points out, the law was all about Christ, but it was temporary until he died on the cross.  

Paul explains this temporary nature of the law.  First he shows that righteousness by faith preexisted the law as Abraham demonstrated.  Then he goes on to say that the law was just a temporary teaching tool that came into effect with Moses and then ended when the object of the lesson arrived.

&lt;i&gt;Gal 3:19  &quot;What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, &lt;b&gt;until&lt;/b&gt; the Seed should come to whom the promise was made...&quot; 

&lt;i&gt;&quot;Gal 3:24,25 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith, &lt;b&gt;but after&lt;/b&gt; that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. &quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Carrying this schoolmaster theme into the next chapter ...

&lt;i&gt;Gal 4:1 &quot;Now I say, That the heir, ... is under tutors and governors &lt;b&gt;until the time appointed&lt;/b&gt; of the father ... but &lt;b&gt;when the fulness of the time was come&lt;/b&gt;, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, to redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.&lt;/i&gt;

You see how the law was not in effect, then it came into effect temporarily and then was then fulfilled, completed, finished by God&#039;s son.

The feasts, land rights, the priesthood, the symbolism of the tabernacle, redemption, substitutionary sacrifice and on and on and on: IT WAS ALL ABOUT HIM.  When HE came he FULFILLED all of those things.  He became the Sacrificial Lamb, the High Priest, the Kinsman Redeemer, etc.

To reduce the whole book of Galatians to a treatise on circumcision is to miss the most magnificent letter ever written!  Paul says circumcision doesn&#039;t matter (Gal 5:6) so why would he write a whole letter about it?

Galatians is a treatise on the the law vs. grace.  Martin Luther called the book &#039;My Katherine&#039; after his wife.  CH Spurgeon said that whenever he opened his Bible he was like a lamb who found his shepherd on every page.  Galatians unlocks mysteries of the law and brings out the Messiah on every page.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#160 Frank, Jesus did not destroy the law or the prophets &#8211; HE FULFILLED THEM.  Fulfilled means completed, done, finished.  The law and the prophets provide a testimony of God&#8217;s grand plan.  As Gal 3:24,25 points out, the law was all about Christ, but it was temporary until he died on the cross.  </p>
<p>Paul explains this temporary nature of the law.  First he shows that righteousness by faith preexisted the law as Abraham demonstrated.  Then he goes on to say that the law was just a temporary teaching tool that came into effect with Moses and then ended when the object of the lesson arrived.</p>
<p><i>Gal 3:19  &#8220;What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, <b>until</b> the Seed should come to whom the promise was made&#8230;&#8221; </p>
<p></i><i>&#8220;Gal 3:24,25 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith, <b>but after</b> that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. &#8220;</i></p>
<p>Carrying this schoolmaster theme into the next chapter &#8230;</p>
<p><i>Gal 4:1 &#8220;Now I say, That the heir, &#8230; is under tutors and governors <b>until the time appointed</b> of the father &#8230; but <b>when the fulness of the time was come</b>, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, to redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.</i></p>
<p>You see how the law was not in effect, then it came into effect temporarily and then was then fulfilled, completed, finished by God&#8217;s son.</p>
<p>The feasts, land rights, the priesthood, the symbolism of the tabernacle, redemption, substitutionary sacrifice and on and on and on: IT WAS ALL ABOUT HIM.  When HE came he FULFILLED all of those things.  He became the Sacrificial Lamb, the High Priest, the Kinsman Redeemer, etc.</p>
<p>To reduce the whole book of Galatians to a treatise on circumcision is to miss the most magnificent letter ever written!  Paul says circumcision doesn&#8217;t matter (Gal 5:6) so why would he write a whole letter about it?</p>
<p>Galatians is a treatise on the the law vs. grace.  Martin Luther called the book &#8216;My Katherine&#8217; after his wife.  CH Spurgeon said that whenever he opened his Bible he was like a lamb who found his shepherd on every page.  Galatians unlocks mysteries of the law and brings out the Messiah on every page.
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		<title>By: Xion</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/10/10/gays-can-marry-in-connecticut/comment-page-4/#comment-356375</link>
		<dc:creator>Xion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 03:47:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Actually Cheryl, read the whole book of Galatians.  Your question is answered over and over.

Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Gal 5:16  So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature.

Gal 6:7  Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually Cheryl, read the whole book of Galatians.  Your question is answered over and over.</p>
<p>Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.</p>
<p>Gal 5:16  So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature.</p>
<p>Gal 6:7  Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.
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		<title>By: Xion</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/10/10/gays-can-marry-in-connecticut/comment-page-4/#comment-356370</link>
		<dc:creator>Xion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 03:37:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Cheryl #162, please read my last sentence in #156.  The read Gal 3.  It is speaking of righteousness by faith even prior to the law.  Obeying Christ&#039;s two commandments is the same as keeping the whole law.  The letter of the law is dead.  Should we sin that grace may abound?  God forbid!  People who love Christ should avoid sin out of love for him, not to check off a list of dos and don&#039;ts.  Grace eliminates the merit system for earning God&#039;s favor.  You can&#039;t earn it.  He grants it freely to those who love him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cheryl #162, please read my last sentence in #156.  The read Gal 3.  It is speaking of righteousness by faith even prior to the law.  Obeying Christ&#8217;s two commandments is the same as keeping the whole law.  The letter of the law is dead.  Should we sin that grace may abound?  God forbid!  People who love Christ should avoid sin out of love for him, not to check off a list of dos and don&#8217;ts.  Grace eliminates the merit system for earning God&#8217;s favor.  You can&#8217;t earn it.  He grants it freely to those who love him.
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		<title>By: Anlir</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/10/10/gays-can-marry-in-connecticut/comment-page-4/#comment-356315</link>
		<dc:creator>Anlir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 01:38:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>It never ceases to amaze me how Christians have an elaborate explanation for everything that&#039;s in the Bible.  If something contradicts or conflicts, they will go into long dissertations and explanations about it (&quot;This means this, except over here where it meant this because Joshua went clockwise around the walls of Jericho.  And then once Jesus rode the donkey under the palm fronds, it changed to this.  Except now it means this since the state of Israel was created after Jupiter aligned with Mars...&quot;

Blech!

This is why we don&#039;t need a 2,000 year-old book of fables running a modern democracy.

Let&#039;s just treat everyone equally under the law, and leave it at that.  It&#039;s so much simpler.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It never ceases to amaze me how Christians have an elaborate explanation for everything that&#8217;s in the Bible.  If something contradicts or conflicts, they will go into long dissertations and explanations about it (&#8221;This means this, except over here where it meant this because Joshua went clockwise around the walls of Jericho.  And then once Jesus rode the donkey under the palm fronds, it changed to this.  Except now it means this since the state of Israel was created after Jupiter aligned with Mars&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Blech!</p>
<p>This is why we don&#8217;t need a 2,000 year-old book of fables running a modern democracy.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s just treat everyone equally under the law, and leave it at that.  It&#8217;s so much simpler.
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		<title>By: Cheryl D.</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/10/10/gays-can-marry-in-connecticut/comment-page-4/#comment-355992</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheryl D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 15:29:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Xion, if we are not still responsible to obey the law, then we can get rid of the outdated category of sin altogether.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Xion, if we are not still responsible to obey the law, then we can get rid of the outdated category of sin altogether.
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		<title>By: Frank in Spokane</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/10/10/gays-can-marry-in-connecticut/comment-page-4/#comment-355928</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank in Spokane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 14:18:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;b&gt;STEVEG (159):&lt;/b&gt; I cited Galatians because you asked me to provide an example of Paul admonishing against adherence to the Law. Doesn’t mean I agree with everything he said.

&lt;b&gt;FRANK:&lt;/b&gt; Paul is admonishing the Galatian Christians against adherence to the ceremonial Law for the purposes of inclusion in the covenant people, the Church.

Paul in no way repudiates God&#039;s &lt;i&gt;moral&lt;/i&gt; law as the true standard of moral behavior — neither in Galatians, nor in any of his other writings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>STEVEG (159):</b> I cited Galatians because you asked me to provide an example of Paul admonishing against adherence to the Law. Doesn’t mean I agree with everything he said.</p>
<p><b>FRANK:</b> Paul is admonishing the Galatian Christians against adherence to the ceremonial Law for the purposes of inclusion in the covenant people, the Church.</p>
<p>Paul in no way repudiates God&#8217;s <i>moral</i> law as the true standard of moral behavior — neither in Galatians, nor in any of his other writings.
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		<title>By: Frank in Spokane</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/10/10/gays-can-marry-in-connecticut/comment-page-4/#comment-355923</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank in Spokane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 14:13:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;b&gt;XION (156):&lt;/b&gt; ... when Jesus said that &lt;i&gt;he did not come to destroy the law,&lt;/i&gt; but to fulfill it, that is precisely what he did.

... So do we now sift through &lt;i&gt;the shards of law,&lt;/i&gt; categorizing as moral or ceremonial, and try to find pieces that we can keep?

&lt;b&gt;FRANK:&lt;/b&gt; &quot;Shards of law&quot;? Do you believe Jesus&#039; own words — &quot;Do &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; come to destroy but to fulfill&quot; — or not?

I agree with you and Steve that we are &lt;i&gt;not saved&lt;/i&gt; by obeying the law. But that does not nullify the law as reflecting God&#039;s holy, righteous and just  character, &lt;i&gt;or&lt;/i&gt; as a standard for our own behavior. (Note that I said &quot;behavior,&quot; and &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; our righteous standing before God, which is only through Christ&#039;s righteousness, which is imputed to us by faith alone and not by keeping the works of the law.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>XION (156):</b> &#8230; when Jesus said that <i>he did not come to destroy the law,</i> but to fulfill it, that is precisely what he did.</p>
<p>&#8230; So do we now sift through <i>the shards of law,</i> categorizing as moral or ceremonial, and try to find pieces that we can keep?</p>
<p><b>FRANK:</b> &#8220;Shards of law&#8221;? Do you believe Jesus&#8217; own words — &#8220;Do <i>not</i> think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did <i>not</i> come to destroy but to fulfill&#8221; — or not?</p>
<p>I agree with you and Steve that we are <i>not saved</i> by obeying the law. But that does not nullify the law as reflecting God&#8217;s holy, righteous and just  character, <i>or</i> as a standard for our own behavior. (Note that I said &#8220;behavior,&#8221; and <i>not</i> our righteous standing before God, which is only through Christ&#8217;s righteousness, which is imputed to us by faith alone and not by keeping the works of the law.)
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		<title>By: SteveG</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/10/10/gays-can-marry-in-connecticut/comment-page-4/#comment-355915</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 14:03:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Frank: I cited Galatians because you asked me to provide an example of Paul admonishing against adherence to the Law. Doesn&#039;t mean I agree with everything he said. 

Remember, I don&#039;t believe the Bible is &quot;God&#039;s word.&quot; You do, I acknowledge, but I do not and am not bound to honor everything that appears in its pages. I disagree with respect, but disagree nonetheless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frank: I cited Galatians because you asked me to provide an example of Paul admonishing against adherence to the Law. Doesn&#8217;t mean I agree with everything he said. </p>
<p>Remember, I don&#8217;t believe the Bible is &#8220;God&#8217;s word.&#8221; You do, I acknowledge, but I do not and am not bound to honor everything that appears in its pages. I disagree with respect, but disagree nonetheless.
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		<title>By: Frank in Spokane</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/10/10/gays-can-marry-in-connecticut/comment-page-4/#comment-355908</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank in Spokane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 13:56:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;b&gt; STEVEG (155):&lt;/b&gt; [In t]he entire book of Galatians ... Paul is warning gentile Christians about getting circumcised, admonishing them that do not need to obey that law due to Christ’s work ...

&lt;b&gt;FRANK:&lt;/b&gt; You cite with approval Paul&#039;s letter to the Galatians, in which he warned them that Gentiles do not need to &quot;become Jews&quot; (by circumcision) in order to become Christians.

This very same apostle Paul teaches of God&#039;s clear condemnation of homosexual relations:

In Romans 1, Paul describes homosexuality as &quot;unclean,&quot; &quot;impure,&quot; &quot;dishonoring to the body,&quot; &quot;vile,&quot; &quot;degrading / disgraceful,&quot; &quot;contrary to nature,&quot; &quot;unseemly/ obscene,&quot; &quot;improper activity of a depraved mind,&quot; &quot;unrighteous&quot; and &quot;wicked.&quot;

In 1 Corinthians 6, Paul speaks of homosexuals as &quot;effeminate&quot; and &quot;abusers of themselves with mankind&quot; who &quot;shall not inherit the kingdom of God.&quot; The Greek terms there describe clearly the two roles in the homosexual relationship — &quot;effeminate&quot; is the word &lt;i&gt; malakos&lt;/i&gt;, and &quot;abusers of themselves with mankind&quot; is the word &lt;i&gt; arsenokoites &lt;/i&gt;. In other words, both and &quot;catchers&quot; and &quot;pitchers.&quot;  Paul says uch people are &quot;unrighteous,&quot; and if they remain in that practice they will be condemned.

So the question is this: How can a sexual relationship that God&#039;s Word teaches is contrary to both His law and to nature, and that is thus worthy of His judgment, be &quot;sanctified&quot; somehow (and thus made socially acceptable) simply by the two people saying they &quot;love&quot; each other or by their &quot;getting married&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b> STEVEG (155):</b> [In t]he entire book of Galatians &#8230; Paul is warning gentile Christians about getting circumcised, admonishing them that do not need to obey that law due to Christ’s work &#8230;</p>
<p><b>FRANK:</b> You cite with approval Paul&#8217;s letter to the Galatians, in which he warned them that Gentiles do not need to &#8220;become Jews&#8221; (by circumcision) in order to become Christians.</p>
<p>This very same apostle Paul teaches of God&#8217;s clear condemnation of homosexual relations:</p>
<p>In Romans 1, Paul describes homosexuality as &#8220;unclean,&#8221; &#8220;impure,&#8221; &#8220;dishonoring to the body,&#8221; &#8220;vile,&#8221; &#8220;degrading / disgraceful,&#8221; &#8220;contrary to nature,&#8221; &#8220;unseemly/ obscene,&#8221; &#8220;improper activity of a depraved mind,&#8221; &#8220;unrighteous&#8221; and &#8220;wicked.&#8221;</p>
<p>In 1 Corinthians 6, Paul speaks of homosexuals as &#8220;effeminate&#8221; and &#8220;abusers of themselves with mankind&#8221; who &#8220;shall not inherit the kingdom of God.&#8221; The Greek terms there describe clearly the two roles in the homosexual relationship — &#8221;effeminate&#8221; is the word <i> malakos</i>, and &#8220;abusers of themselves with mankind&#8221; is the word <i> arsenokoites </i>. In other words, both and &#8220;catchers&#8221; and &#8220;pitchers.&#8221;  Paul says uch people are &#8220;unrighteous,&#8221; and if they remain in that practice they will be condemned.</p>
<p>So the question is this: How can a sexual relationship that God&#8217;s Word teaches is contrary to both His law and to nature, and that is thus worthy of His judgment, be &#8220;sanctified&#8221; somehow (and thus made socially acceptable) simply by the two people saying they &#8220;love&#8221; each other or by their &#8220;getting married&#8221;?
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		<title>By: Xion</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/10/10/gays-can-marry-in-connecticut/comment-page-4/#comment-355877</link>
		<dc:creator>Xion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 12:53:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>One thing I will quibble about is the last line in #155 SteveG.  Paul, who has given you a good understanding of grace, also declared homosexuality to be vile affections (Rom 1:26,27) and lists it with other sins (1 Cor 6:9).

But adultery and fornication are also misplaced affections, since God&#039;s design is for a man and woman to be joined for life.  (Mark 10:7-9).  Jesus was not silent on the issue, since he explicitly declared what is acceptable to God.

On the other hand, I believe he would have treated homosexuals with kindness, just as he did every other sinner.  The only people he ever got mad at were the religious legalists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing I will quibble about is the last line in #155 SteveG.  Paul, who has given you a good understanding of grace, also declared homosexuality to be vile affections (Rom 1:26,27) and lists it with other sins (1 Cor 6:9).</p>
<p>But adultery and fornication are also misplaced affections, since God&#8217;s design is for a man and woman to be joined for life.  (Mark 10:7-9).  Jesus was not silent on the issue, since he explicitly declared what is acceptable to God.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I believe he would have treated homosexuals with kindness, just as he did every other sinner.  The only people he ever got mad at were the religious legalists.
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