Mourning sorrow: Nigerian Christians fear more retaliation after Muslim gangs kill 500 
Click to Print
Include Comments
Who’s Joe the Plumber?
As Emily mentions below, the star of tonight’s debate wasn’t Barack Obama or John McCain; it was Joe the Plumber, the man from Ohio who now represents middle-class America, thanks to 15 mentions of his name during tonight’s debate.
A few days ago, Joe Wurzelbacher told Obama that his tax plan would keep him from buying a plumbing business. In the debate, McCain tried to capitalize on Joe comments in comparing his tax plan with Obama’s.
When asked about his name being tossed around, Joe said it’s “pretty surreal.”
ADDENDUM: Here’s video of Obama’s encounter with Joe (HT: Victoria):
Topic: Campaign 2008, WorldMagBlog
You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed.
back to top66 Comments to “Who’s Joe the Plumber?”
Joe was contacted after the debate tonight, and repeated to the interviewer that Obama’s policies would hurt his business.
Report comment to moderator
Outkast: How do you find these things out so fast?
Report comment to moderator
Outkast: You forgot a part. Faux News reported that he wouldn’t say whom he was going to vote for.
Report comment to moderator
This Robin Hood doesn’t wear green!
“spread the wealth around”
What a novel idea, where have we heard that before?
Report comment to moderator
But that’s like saying the black lady in CNN’s “focus group” tonight was “undecided,” Acadia.
LOL, it cuts both ways.
Report comment to moderator
Oh, just in case anyone is wondering, Joe is White. Remarkable, really.
Report comment to moderator
The VIDEO is ABOVE on the LINK -
Report comment to moderator
Joe: I was at a debate party tonight.
Report comment to moderator
Arcadia (post #6): Like I said . . .
Report comment to moderator
Arcadia – 6
Should Joe be black or yellow? “Remarkable” you say? its remarkable that you can’t help yourself from spouting these silly remarks!
Report comment to moderator
Arcadia: It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that if one Presidential candidate is going to endanger the business plans of a voter they are NOT going to vote for that particular candidate!
Report comment to moderator
Victoria, Outkast. It’s too bad irony escapes you. Really.
Introducing Joe’s race was intentionally every bit as irrelevant as that guy from Nebraska’s introduction of Mr. Chambers’ race.
Who the heck cares what the either guy’s race was????????
Report comment to moderator
Outkast- Aah…
Arcadia- 6
I realize there are a lot of strong feelings about race this election, but I just want to let you know that I personally would still be voting for McCain if he were bright purple. While I realize some people out there may have issues with race, I think the majority of people do not consider that a deciding issue.
Also, in the same vein, would it really be fair if I accused those who decided to vote for Obama that they were sexist?
Report comment to moderator
Arcadia
You sure have race on the brain, whats the problem? Can’t you handle the fact that everyone isn’t the same color, or that we can all see what color the other person is in our sight line?
Maybe when you can get over this ‘edginess’ with someone mentioning the color of ones skin you might have some credibility, until then….
Report comment to moderator
I’ve got to learn to post faster.
Arcadia- Who’s Mr Chambers?
Report comment to moderator
As a certain civil rights leader once said, our dream is for a man NOT to be judged on the color of his skin but on the content of his character.
Yet, the Leftists of the 21st century (see post #12) ridicule those of us who think “character” should be a major topic of conversation today.
Report comment to moderator
Joe – 13
What if he were bright purple with green hair, would you still vote for him?
I would!
Report comment to moderator
Victoria- 17
I don’t know- that’s getting a little crazy.
Report comment to moderator
LOL, Joe, I don’t think this country is ready for a punk rocker as Prez . . .
Report comment to moderator
Hallelujah!
Report comment to moderator
Outkast, thats a relief!
Joe, it is crazy, and I’m glad we can stick to the basic colors.
Report comment to moderator
Speaking of cutting both ways…if Joe is going to vote for McCain purely because McCain is the candidate whose tax plan looks to benefit Joe the most…then Joe can’t really criticize the low-income folk who vote for Obama because Obama’s plan is the one that benefits them the most.
Report comment to moderator
That’s a relief to hear, Buddy, since business-owners tend to have more influence over politics than “the low-income folks” (your words).
Report comment to moderator
Besides, Buddy, we don’t see Joe criticizing ANYONE during his conversation with Barry.
Spin again, buddy . . .
Report comment to moderator
I didn’t say Joe had criticized anyone. Honestly, I didn’t even watch the video since I don’t have speakers connected to this computer. However, if Joe is like most small business owners (which may not be the case), then he likely stands to do about the same under Obama’s plan as he would under McCain’s:
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/mccains_small-business_bunk.html
Report comment to moderator
And people tend to vote for the candidate who matches the voter’s worldview, Buddy. Do you have anything NEW to add to this conversation?
Report comment to moderator
Joe C: If you check an earlier blog post you will understand what I was getting at. It involved a goofy lawmaker who filed suit against a god.
Someone felt it was necessary to point out that the lawmaker was Black. Others felt that somehow this contributed to the discussion.
Sorry about the confusion, it’s sort of a “you had to be there earlier” thing.
Report comment to moderator
#26: I thought the factcheck link regarding McCain’s bogus claims about how many small business owners would be negatively impacted by Obama’s tax plan was “something new”. I can’t speak to Joe’s specific situation, since I haven’t watched the video, but if he doesn’t have employees and earns less than $160k/yr, then he should just about break even between the two candidate’s tax plans. Not knowing his exact situation, it’s very likely that Joe is wrong when he says Obama’s plan will screw him.
Report comment to moderator
Something that Obama conveniently never mentions. When he and his gang refuse to renew the Bush tax cuts which sunset in 2010, he will have a HUGE automatic tax increase that he won’t have to own up to. Even though he now claims he will not raise the taxes on 95% of Americans, the 2010 tax increase, which is as good as set in concrete if he wins, belies his claim.
If the American people are foolish enough to elect him, under Obama’s rule, Maxist Demorats are going to rape this country one way or another.
Report comment to moderator
I saw 29 posts responding to this short article, and I must say that most of them were just little back and forths over nothing. These little back and forths take away from the posts that actually contain content. What is attained when you behave this way is you affectively water down any posts with substance not to mention the article itself.
I realize this is not always the case for often I find myself reading all the posts when they are well thought out and actually say something more than I am right, you are wrong. But you folks blew it on this one and I feel like I want to say, “grow up”.
Look, Joe the Plumber makes a good case for Obama’s questionable definition of “rich” through this brief interaction. Why not just leave it at that instead of trying to rub salt in the wounds of the Obama supporters that this video clearly hurts. And why try to spin the story to make Obama look good with little worthless snipets? Obama lost this one, but he has won plenty too, so learn to win with humility, and learn to lose with grace.
Report comment to moderator
The best way to “spread the wealth around” is for Joe’s business to do well, hire people to help him, buy supplies from other small businesses, be able to give his customers good service at a reasonable price, so they can buy more stuff from other business, then make enough of a profit to buy even more stuff from even more people. See how it works. Joe should get every break possible.
Report comment to moderator
I’m not sure about small business but this looks like discrimination of married people.
“Obama’s tax proposal would raise rates only on couples making more than $250,000 or singles earning more than $200,000.”
So as a married person I can’t make more than $125,000, but a single can make $2000,000.
Report comment to moderator
I heard Joe say to Obama that he thinks the business will have an income of $280,000. So, yeah, Obama’s tax plan costs the guy money.
Report comment to moderator
“I think the majority of people do not consider that [race] a deciding issue.”
I’m not sure about that when I listen to the Howard Stern interviews. Those folks were certainly not voting the issues! Especially not one gal, who listened to the “both of the presidents speaking” (That’s called a “debate” for all you folks in Harlem.)
*Obscenity Warning*
Report comment to moderator
NJLawyer #33: Obama’s tax plan would only nail Joe if his personal income is greater than $280,000/yr. If that’s the case, then forgive me if I don’t shed a tear for Joe.
Report comment to moderator
WRONG Buddy……you actually think Obama’s going to leave business taxes alone? You’re obviously drinking the same Kool – Aid every other dummycrat is drinking. Senator Barack obviously knows nothing about economics. He wants to heighten taxes on incomes of over $250,000……yet it is those people making that much and more who put people to work, because they worked for it!!!!!Here’s a line from the video above: “It’s not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they’ve got a chance for success too. I think when you spread the wealth around, it’s good for everybody.” —Barack Obama to a small business owner at a recent rally.
He isn’t going to flat out lie in Joe’s face, but yeah, Obama’s economic policy will punish the achievments of hard working Americans. Yah, spread the wealth around?? That is socialism at the core. It’s not Obama’s money!
“Can you tell me who Barack Hussein Obama is? Have you read anything he did while at Harvard or Columbia? What has he accomplished in the Senate? Have you seen his school or medical records? His doctoral thesis? No? Then why is this guy said to be the savior of America and the world?”
Report comment to moderator
The sad part of the whole political process is that small business owners get saddled with taxes, no matter who is president or what party is in charge of Congress. Small businessmen do better under Republicans, sure, but here’s the kicker:
90% of big corporations pay no taxes. None. Period.
And yet many of those corporations – banks, financial institutions, etc. – are now getting all sorts of free money.
Here’s a plan: lower taxes on individuals and small businessmen. Make up the difference by actually making big corporations pay at least a modicum of taxes.
Report comment to moderator
Buddyglass,
Excellent point, and one that I think a LOT of people overlook. A business owner’s personal income is different, and (usually) less than, the business’s income.
If Joe’s plumbing business brings in $280,000/yr in revenues, then indeed, he’s struggling. To actually figure out his personal income, he fills out a Schedule C, where he backs out the expenses his business incurred – depreciation on equipment, supplies he had to buy, wages and taxes the business paid, and so forth.
On the other hand, if his revenues are high enough that after all the expenses of the business, he actually clears and brings home a personal income of $280,000, then he’s pretty darned well off – the 95th percentile for household income in 2005 was around $166,000, and in Joe’s state of Ohio, the average household median income from 2005-2007 was around $47,500 – meaning fully half of all households get by on that amount or less.
So again, we really need to know the whole situation here, and we don’t. If the $280,000 figure is his business’s revenue, then Joe is undoubtedly struggling. On the other hand, if it’s his personal income, then by any reasonable estimate, earning more than 95% of other households, and with half of all households earning less than one-fifth of what you do, you indeed are rich.
(And that is not to say that rich people do not work hard, but just to put some perspective on the matter.)
I’m willing to bet it’s the former, that Joe is struggling and that the figure is his business’s revenue.
Report comment to moderator
I heard Dave Barry interviewed last night on a radio show. When asked about the “bail out” and how we (ordinary tax payers) are picking up the bill, Dave said, “Every American should get a “Get out of jail free” type card that excuses him from an IRS audit for the coming year, regardless of whatever deductions he puts on his or her tax return.”
Report comment to moderator
Running a business is a pain in the tail, with a lot of stress, risk and long hours. Why would anybody want to to do that for the same reward that everybody else gets?
Report comment to moderator
For an interesting exercise, compare the video of Obama and Joe the Plumber with Obama’s description of what he claimed he said to Joe during last night’s debate. For extra credit compare any of Obama’s descriptions of his previous statements with the recorded statements themselves. “Never mind what your lying ears tell you, I’m Barack Obama and I approved this revision of history.”
Report comment to moderator
First of all, watch the entire six minute exchange instead of the twenty second spot edited by Fox News.
Mickey, can you update the embedded video in the post?
I really like the direct and substantive way Obama answered Joe’s question. My impression is that most politicians retreat to vague generalities then move on. Obama was talking numbers with the guy. I appreciate that willingness to engage someone who disagrees.
Second, Joe is not representative of most small businessmen. Most small businesses make well under $250,000. And if I understand Obama’s answer correctly, Joe is not penalized with a brutal tax as soon as he crosses the $250k threshold. His earnings above $250k are taxed at the higher rate. So if his business does, as projected, make $280k, Joe only pays the higher tax rate on $30k of his earnings. (But I only inferred this from Obama’s response to Joe, so I could be wrong.) Also, Obama makes a good point that Joe’s business will do better when the middle class as a whole — the people who hire plumbers — does better.
Finally, BuddyGlass has a very good point in #22. If Joe Plumber is voting his wallet, he shouldn’t be surprised to see the middle and lower classes vote their wallet. And there are a lot more of those guys. Similarly, if you think Joe voting primarily to help his bottom line is smart politics, then you have no grounds to complain about low income people voting primarily to help their bottom lines.
Report comment to moderator
Ken:
Did you watch the full 6 minute exchange, or did you conclude that Obama lied about the conversation based solely on Fox’s 15 second soundbyte?
Report comment to moderator
Looks like Joe doesn’t pay his taxes anyway
LUCAS COUNTY COURT OF COMMON PLEAS
J. BERNIE QUILTER, CLERK
700 ADAMS STREET
TOLEDO, OHIO
MONETARY AMOUNT: $1,182.98
DEPT OF TAXATION STATE OF OHIO
Defendant 1:
WURZELBACHER SAMUEL J
30 DERBYSHIRE RD
TOLEDO, OH 43615
Report comment to moderator
Never fear, RPN, the tax settlement attorneys on TV are STANDING BY to help Joe settle his tax liabilities for PENNIES on the dollar. But he must act now! The law may change!
I can see Joe’s testimonial now. “Nothing was more worrisome than dealing with back taxes. But thanks to Allied Tax Solutions and John McCain, I’ll never have to worry again!”
Report comment to moderator
If Joe is earning enough that his taxes will go up under Obama’s plan, he’s not “middle class.” Middle class is maybe $50,000-$80,000, not the $250,000 threshold in Obama’s plan.
Report comment to moderator
Outkast: Do you have anything NEW to add to this conversation?
Since when you do worry about that? If you made that a test of your own posts, you’d never say anything here.
Report comment to moderator
Having read this thread, it’s clear that conservatives still live in their magical fairyland where the government can operate easily even when nobody pays taxes, the national debt doesn’t matter and every good boy and girl gets a pony.
Here’s the hard truth: It costs money to keep the lights on. The money for government comes from taxation, or it comes from higher and higher debt.
You can either vote for the candidate who candidly admits that while he can cut taxes for middle-income earners, those making more have the means to contribute more to the nation … or you can vote for the guy who promises to cut everyone’s taxes, or at least not raise them, and find you’ve been suckered again when that promise inevitably proves to be impossible to keep.
Report comment to moderator
Oh dear, it seems good ol’ Joe may not even be a licensed plumber or contractor. And he apparently owes back taxes and lied on his facebook page. And, it turns out that his allegiances lie in the direction of the Republican Party, and/or the Natural Law Party, whatever that is.
Another sparkling job of research by the McCain crowd.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/16/joe-in-the-spotlight/?hp
Report comment to moderator
Joe hates Social Security, too. As any single, slightly reckless parent with a young boy naturally would!
Report comment to moderator
#40
Amen. As small business owners, we know that Obama is not interested in helping us out. He’s interested in buying votes from non-achievers with handouts of tax-payer money to OTHER people.
Interestingly, conservatives tend to give more generously than liberals with their own money, while liberals are more generous with other peoples’ money.
Report comment to moderator
Yikes. The dirt digging political culture has put us at the point where an average citizen has reason to fear standing up and asking a question. If I stop McCain in the street and ask him about his flip-flop on torture, will they discover and publish to the four winds every mistake I’ve ever made or embarrassment I’ve ever had?
Nor would I expect the McCain campaign to fully research Joe Plumber before using him as the centerpiece of their debate. I found that ill-advised tactic patronizing and cynical, but I don’t expect that Joe Plumber needs to be vetted like he’s a cabinet appointee.
Besides, all this stuff about Joe Plumber is entirely irrelevant to his question. It was a good one, and I think Obama answered it well. Joe apparently doesn’t think so (based on subsequent interviews). That’s his right. I don’t see what his personal financial business, party affiliations, and licensure have to do with anything.
Report comment to moderator
Theophilus #36 writes:
For now, I’m taking him at his word. Given that I’m not an accountant, I don’t see any provisions in Obama’s tax plan that unduly hurt small business owners except the one regarding health insurance, which only affects those with employees. Joe may or may not have employees.
McCain, on the other hand, wants to lower the maximum corporate tax rate from 35% to 25%. That would only impact Joe if he were being taxed at the maximum rate, which is unlikely. See the Tax Policy Center’s detailed summary of each candidate’s plan:
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/411749_updated_candidates.pdf
You seriously want to compare McCain to Obama on his grasp of economics? Really?
Let’s say I’m running a large business and paying myself a salary of $500k/yr, of which I pay about $100k in taxes after my deductions, for a net of $400k. Obama gets elected and all of a sudden I’m paying $150k in taxes, so my net goes from $400k to $350k. How is that going to impact my employees? Am I going to fire some guy who earns $50k a year, just so I can pay myself an extra $50k in salary to make up for the tax increase? No, since, assuming that employee was actually useful, firing him will negatively impact my business’s revenue, which in turn negatively effects profit and my ability to pay my salary out of it.
Report comment to moderator
52. Amen to that, You’d think the poor guy was running for Vice-President or something. He just asked a question.
Report comment to moderator
KBells:
Funny you should mention the VP, though. I enjoyed this comment on reddit:
In a single day Joe the Plumber has done more interviews than Sarah Palin has this entire campaign.
Report comment to moderator
From Instapundit:
DANNY GLOVER: The press and the plumber. They’ve done more investigations into Joe the Plumber in 24 hours than they’ve done on Barack Obama in two years . . . .
Report comment to moderator
“In a single day Joe the Plumber has done more interviews than Sarah Palin has this entire campaign.”
Report comment to moderator
Mine’s funnier, Donna J, because it’s true.
I know you don’t think the press has sufficiently uncovered Barack Obama’s dirty secrets, but he has received intense media scrutiny over the past twenty months. Rev. Wright dominated the news cycle for about two weeks, remember? There were press investigations into Barack Obama’s religious education as a kindergartner. William Ayers came up during the primary against Hillary.
Now I’m sure these things didn’t receive as much play, and the kind of play, you would have liked. But they were raised. And you must admit the possibility that they were dropped because there’s nothing to talk about.
Report comment to moderator
Joe Plumber is clearly a delusional numbskull who fantasizes that he can buy a plumbing business without a license or money. Meanwhile, he won’t pay an existing amount of taxes that suggests his real income is a factor of 5 or so lower than the bracket he pretends to care about.
McCain is pandering to a real jerk!
Report comment to moderator
Wow. Joe touched a nerve, I see. They’re all over the guy, maybe they all even flew back from Alaska? Nice to see this guy’s going to get what he deserves. Justice. I’ll sleep so much better tonight.
But we digress. The real story? “spread the wealth around.”
Report comment to moderator
Yep we need to “spread the wealth around” – all the people who won’t work, don’t like their job, spend what money they do have on things they can’t afford – can then DIP into the pot that everyone gives to, so they too can have the same goodies – is that a plan or what?
Of course there are reaons for the calamity of those who don’t have the jobs they wish for – bad school, divorce, sex, drugs, bad neighborhood, pregnancy – ____________fill in the blank, its like a checking account without worring about the balance.
People only start taking charge of their lives when they know the crutches have been thrown in the fire.
Report comment to moderator
You know, they should probably rough Joe up a bit, too, along with the dumpster diving to further publicly humiliate him. Really. A person (excuse me, a “jerk” I believe he was called earlier) like that? He needs to be put in his place.
Hey, perhaps with that tax lien, his property can just be confiscated. Then the government can take his “wealth” and spread it around a bit, to you, to me. to everyone.
Report comment to moderator
And check out this CS Monitor column:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/1017/p09s02-coop.html
Report comment to moderator
Fat Bob the Singing Plumber had class. He could sing pretty good and he was really a plumber.
Report comment to moderator
“Joe was contacted after the debate tonight, and repeated to the interviewer that Obama’s policies would hurt his business.”
Then he’s a liar. He doesn’t have a business Kassy.
Report comment to moderator
Forget the character attacks, however deserved or not. Let’s deal with the actual issue that was raised. Here’s a relevant excerpt from the (very) conservative Wall Street Journal’s article of OCTOBER 17, 2008, ‘As Joe the Plumber Grows Famous, the Politics Get Murkier’:
“To reach a level that would be affected by Sen. Obama’s proposed tax increase, Mr. Smither said, a mom-and-pop plumbing company like Newell would have to clear $5 million in annual sales. [Joe’s company actually reports only $100,000 in sales.]
Even if Mr. Wurzelbacher reaped taxable income from his business of $280,000 a
year, he’d pay only about $900 more a year in taxes under Sen. Obama’s plan, which
would raise the tax rate on the income between $250,000 and $280,000 to 36%
from 33%.
[...]
If Mr. Wurzelbacher earns the wages of a typical Ohio plumber, $40,600, and holds a $90,000 mortgage, he would see a TAX CUT (emphasis added) under Sen. Obama’s plan of more than $1,000, compared with no tax reduction under Sen. McCain’s.
If he succeeds in buying the plumbing business where he works, he could see even more tax benefits, including Sen. Obama’s proposed elimination of capital-gains taxes for small-business investment, a 50% tax credit to purchase health insurance for employees and a $3,000 tax credit for every new hire over the next two years.”
Other issues and ‘things we wish were true’ aside, better to acknowledge facts and deal with them objectively.
Report comment to moderator
back to topJoin The Conversation
You need to be a registered user of WORLDonTheWeb.com to "join the conversation."
If you are not a member yet, what are you waiting for? Register / Login Now!