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	<title>Comments on: Whirled Views 11.19</title>
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		<title>By: donna j</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/11/19/whirled-views-1119-2/comment-page-2/#comment-372400</link>
		<dc:creator>donna j</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 00:25:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>RN: thanks for the honest response -- that you wrestle with ethics not based on &quot;absolute values&quot; shows you simply operate on sound logic. 

As for past sins of Christians (? that is a question that remains open since we cannot really judge whether they were genuine believers or not), often in the name of the faith, I suppose we can only appeal to the biblical teaching of man&#039;s depravity and his (our) capacity to mess up royally and commit great evil. Which, of course, leads us back to the need for God&#039;s grace and mercy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RN: thanks for the honest response &#8212; that you wrestle with ethics not based on &#8220;absolute values&#8221; shows you simply operate on sound logic. </p>
<p>As for past sins of Christians (? that is a question that remains open since we cannot really judge whether they were genuine believers or not), often in the name of the faith, I suppose we can only appeal to the biblical teaching of man&#8217;s depravity and his (our) capacity to mess up royally and commit great evil. Which, of course, leads us back to the need for God&#8217;s grace and mercy.
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		<title>By: Random Name</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/11/19/whirled-views-1119-2/comment-page-2/#comment-372337</link>
		<dc:creator>Random Name</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 22:29:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>#47 Donna,

I appreciate your reply. Many of the  exchanges here consist of stereotypes and labels (&quot;socialist,&quot; &quot;leftist&quot; &quot;Conservative Christian Republicans,&quot; etc.), exchanges of insults (condescending, etc.) and mock combat. I am not sure what purpose these exchanges serve. I don&#039;t regard your messages as partaking very much of this type of communication.

I&#039;ve said that I feel that useful communication here should serve to make each other uneasy. My point is generally misunderstood and misinterpreted. For example, it is very unlikely that messages here are going to convert atheists to Christians or Christians to atheists. It is even more unlikely that Christians here will accept gay marriage or that homosexuals here will suddenly adopt a &quot;straight&quot; life style.



Two examples of arguments that I advance that I feel should make make people uneasy are the participation of many (not all) Christians in genocidal behavior as document in the book &lt;i&gt;Blood and Soil&lt;/i&gt;, and my argument that the term &quot;sin&quot; has little useful meaning to me.

On the other side, I am uneasy about the problem of ethics not based on absolute values and I am uneasy about the problem of abortion. This does not mean that I am a &quot;convert&quot; to your side of the argument any more than my genocide examples causes you or Adios or Klasko to become a radical agnostic. But I do believe you are taking the issue seriously.

I think quite a few other people here just spout rigid replies without much thought. Mileage varies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#47 Donna,</p>
<p>I appreciate your reply. Many of the  exchanges here consist of stereotypes and labels (&#8221;socialist,&#8221; &#8220;leftist&#8221; &#8220;Conservative Christian Republicans,&#8221; etc.), exchanges of insults (condescending, etc.) and mock combat. I am not sure what purpose these exchanges serve. I don&#8217;t regard your messages as partaking very much of this type of communication.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve said that I feel that useful communication here should serve to make each other uneasy. My point is generally misunderstood and misinterpreted. For example, it is very unlikely that messages here are going to convert atheists to Christians or Christians to atheists. It is even more unlikely that Christians here will accept gay marriage or that homosexuals here will suddenly adopt a &#8220;straight&#8221; life style.</p>
<p>Two examples of arguments that I advance that I feel should make make people uneasy are the participation of many (not all) Christians in genocidal behavior as document in the book <i>Blood and Soil</i>, and my argument that the term &#8220;sin&#8221; has little useful meaning to me.</p>
<p>On the other side, I am uneasy about the problem of ethics not based on absolute values and I am uneasy about the problem of abortion. This does not mean that I am a &#8220;convert&#8221; to your side of the argument any more than my genocide examples causes you or Adios or Klasko to become a radical agnostic. But I do believe you are taking the issue seriously.</p>
<p>I think quite a few other people here just spout rigid replies without much thought. Mileage varies.
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		<title>By: SteveG</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/11/19/whirled-views-1119-2/comment-page-2/#comment-371978</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:03:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>As for Souter, his only direct involvement so far has been to deny Berg&#039;s application for an injunction. He is not singularly involved in the petition for the writ, that will be for the full court to decide.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As for Souter, his only direct involvement so far has been to deny Berg&#8217;s application for an injunction. He is not singularly involved in the petition for the writ, that will be for the full court to decide.
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		<title>By: SteveG</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/11/19/whirled-views-1119-2/comment-page-2/#comment-371976</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:02:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.techlawjournal.com/glossary/legal/certiorari.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;A reference.&lt;/a&gt;

If you refer to the docket MIM linked to, we see that Berg filed the petition but that the response has not yet come.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.techlawjournal.com/glossary/legal/certiorari.htm" rel="nofollow">A reference.</a></p>
<p>If you refer to the docket MIM linked to, we see that Berg filed the petition but that the response has not yet come.
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		<title>By: SteveG</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/11/19/whirled-views-1119-2/comment-page-2/#comment-371974</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:00:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>OK, I really should learn to do research before taking the word of people here on anything. Here is what is happening. 

The writ of certiorari means the Supreme Court has agreed to hear the case. That has NOT been issue. What has happened is:

Berg lost in the lower court. 

He filed a PETITION for the writ in October. The Court&#039;s response is due by Dec. 1. That Dec. 1 date has nothing to do with Obama producing anything. 

Berg also filed a motion for an injunction against the election outcome pending a decision on the writ. The Supreme Court denied that motion. 

By December 1, the Court will either issue a writ of certiorari, meaning they will hear the case, or they will deny the petition, meaning they will not. 

Obama&#039;s people at this point are not involved at all. Berg is trying to get the SCOTUS to hear his case and is awaiting their decision. That is all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, I really should learn to do research before taking the word of people here on anything. Here is what is happening. </p>
<p>The writ of certiorari means the Supreme Court has agreed to hear the case. That has NOT been issue. What has happened is:</p>
<p>Berg lost in the lower court. </p>
<p>He filed a PETITION for the writ in October. The Court&#8217;s response is due by Dec. 1. That Dec. 1 date has nothing to do with Obama producing anything. </p>
<p>Berg also filed a motion for an injunction against the election outcome pending a decision on the writ. The Supreme Court denied that motion. </p>
<p>By December 1, the Court will either issue a writ of certiorari, meaning they will hear the case, or they will deny the petition, meaning they will not. </p>
<p>Obama&#8217;s people at this point are not involved at all. Berg is trying to get the SCOTUS to hear his case and is awaiting their decision. That is all.
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		<title>By: Pauline</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/11/19/whirled-views-1119-2/comment-page-2/#comment-371973</link>
		<dc:creator>Pauline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:59:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Maybe Souter thinks it would be best to clear this up once and for all rather than having people forever saying that the birth certificate was probably invalid and that the powers-that-be covered it up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe Souter thinks it would be best to clear this up once and for all rather than having people forever saying that the birth certificate was probably invalid and that the powers-that-be covered it up.
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		<title>By: SteveG</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/11/19/whirled-views-1119-2/comment-page-2/#comment-371970</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:53:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Correction: The docket does refer to the writ. But all that means is Souter wants to see the record of the lower court proceedings as part of the decision-making on whether the Supreme Court should review it. 

There really is nothing there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correction: The docket does refer to the writ. But all that means is Souter wants to see the record of the lower court proceedings as part of the decision-making on whether the Supreme Court should review it. </p>
<p>There really is nothing there.
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		<title>By: SteveG</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/11/19/whirled-views-1119-2/comment-page-2/#comment-371966</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:49:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I don&#039;t know, MIM. But once Obama complies, maybe then you guys will finally give it a rest. 

More likely, you&#039;ll just conclude that Souter is indeed a fool who was taken in by the obviously forged birth certificate. 

Look, if this rumor had any truth to it at all, the Republicans would have blown Obama out of the water two years ago. The fact that the party itself, which stood to lose the White House, couldn&#039;t make the case is proof enough that there&#039;s nothing there. 

I have no idea what Souter&#039;s reasoning is (if the claim is even true, as that docket that was linked to earlier says nothing about it), but I am quite sure nothing will come of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know, MIM. But once Obama complies, maybe then you guys will finally give it a rest. </p>
<p>More likely, you&#8217;ll just conclude that Souter is indeed a fool who was taken in by the obviously forged birth certificate. </p>
<p>Look, if this rumor had any truth to it at all, the Republicans would have blown Obama out of the water two years ago. The fact that the party itself, which stood to lose the White House, couldn&#8217;t make the case is proof enough that there&#8217;s nothing there. </p>
<p>I have no idea what Souter&#8217;s reasoning is (if the claim is even true, as that docket that was linked to earlier says nothing about it), but I am quite sure nothing will come of it.
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		<title>By: RPN</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/11/19/whirled-views-1119-2/comment-page-2/#comment-371845</link>
		<dc:creator>RPN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 05:32:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>You betcha, Sarah Palin would just adore that sentence structure, also.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You betcha, Sarah Palin would just adore that sentence structure, also.
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		<title>By: Make it Man</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/11/19/whirled-views-1119-2/comment-page-2/#comment-371842</link>
		<dc:creator>Make it Man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 04:53:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Are you saying that Justice Souter is a fool also?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you saying that Justice Souter is a fool also?
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