<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Surveillance security?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://online.worldmag.com/2008/12/02/surveillance-security/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/12/02/surveillance-security/</link>
	<description>A forum for discussion of news that arises at the intersection of Christianity and culture.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 13:59:01 -0500</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: momof5</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/12/02/surveillance-security/comment-page-1/#comment-375485</link>
		<dc:creator>momof5</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 23:04:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://online.worldmag.com/?p=18204#comment-375485</guid>
		<description>I can imagine the worst possible consequences of most choices.  I guess that comes with being risk averse.

OTOH, my husband is an optimistic estimator.  We balance each other well!  :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can imagine the worst possible consequences of most choices.  I guess that comes with being risk averse.</p>
<p>OTOH, my husband is an optimistic estimator.  We balance each other well!  <img src='http://online.worldmag.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />
<p align="right"><font POINT-SIZE=8><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://online.worldmag.com/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=375485', 500, 500)">Report comment to moderator</a></font></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Frank in Spokane</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/12/02/surveillance-security/comment-page-1/#comment-375480</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank in Spokane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 22:44:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://online.worldmag.com/?p=18204#comment-375480</guid>
		<description>MomOf5:

A &quot;catastrophic rolladex&quot;?

Please elaborate?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MomOf5:</p>
<p>A &#8220;catastrophic rolladex&#8221;?</p>
<p>Please elaborate?
<p align="right"><font POINT-SIZE=8><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://online.worldmag.com/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=375480', 500, 500)">Report comment to moderator</a></font></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: momof5</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/12/02/surveillance-security/comment-page-1/#comment-375467</link>
		<dc:creator>momof5</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 22:16:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://online.worldmag.com/?p=18204#comment-375467</guid>
		<description>The collecting of information makes me nervous. 

 Consider the use of FBI files by powerful politicians to silence opponents.  Just because the original intent is good, it doesn&#039;t protect from those who come later who see an opportunity to punish or control.

My husband says I have a &quot;catastrophic rolladex&quot; about things like this...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The collecting of information makes me nervous. </p>
<p> Consider the use of FBI files by powerful politicians to silence opponents.  Just because the original intent is good, it doesn&#8217;t protect from those who come later who see an opportunity to punish or control.</p>
<p>My husband says I have a &#8220;catastrophic rolladex&#8221; about things like this&#8230;
<p align="right"><font POINT-SIZE=8><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://online.worldmag.com/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=375467', 500, 500)">Report comment to moderator</a></font></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Frank in Spokane</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/12/02/surveillance-security/comment-page-1/#comment-375435</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank in Spokane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 20:57:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://online.worldmag.com/?p=18204#comment-375435</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;KBELLS (13):&lt;/b&gt; Anyone could stand on the street corner and tape someone going into any of these places. If you’re not doing anything wrong why do you care who sees you?

&lt;b&gt;FRANK:&lt;/b&gt; I don&#039;t think the concern is one of &quot;mere&quot; privacy, but rather the State&#039;s wholesale collecting, collating and sharing of &lt;i&gt;information&lt;/i&gt; on law-abiding citizens. (Notice, however, that how I frame the question presupposes that there&#039;s something downright strange about wanting to keep one&#039;s affairs private.)

Consider: If you withdraw, deposit, or even make a purchase with cash in the amount of $10,000 or more, your actions will &lt;i&gt;by law&lt;/i&gt; be reported to The Authoritahs — all in the name of fighting the War on Drugs, you understand.

But suppose you&#039;re &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; a drug dealer, but on sheer principle, you don&#039;t &lt;i&gt;like&lt;/i&gt; the idea of Big Brother knowing you have your hands on ten grand. So you withdraw, deposit or spend $9,500 instead. Well, if The Authorities find out), you can be charged with the &quot;crime&quot; of  &quot;structuring&quot; — intentionally transacting in an amount less than $10,000 in order to avoid reporting requirements. Screwed if you do, screwed if you don&#039;t.

But hey, KBells, &lt;i&gt;you&lt;/i&gt; hold the answer: &quot;If you’re not doing anything wrong why do you care who sees you?&quot;

Stop ask yourself just how that kind of sheeple-think contradicts everything America&#039;s Founders stood for and sought to bequeath us. Consider just for a moment that people inherently &lt;i&gt;don&#039;t like&lt;/i&gt; to be suspected of criminal activity just because they have ten grand in their duffel bag. And that kind of presupposition of privacy shouldn&#039;t automatically make them suspects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>KBELLS (13):</b> Anyone could stand on the street corner and tape someone going into any of these places. If you’re not doing anything wrong why do you care who sees you?</p>
<p><b>FRANK:</b> I don&#8217;t think the concern is one of &#8220;mere&#8221; privacy, but rather the State&#8217;s wholesale collecting, collating and sharing of <i>information</i> on law-abiding citizens. (Notice, however, that how I frame the question presupposes that there&#8217;s something downright strange about wanting to keep one&#8217;s affairs private.)</p>
<p>Consider: If you withdraw, deposit, or even make a purchase with cash in the amount of $10,000 or more, your actions will <i>by law</i> be reported to The Authoritahs — all in the name of fighting the War on Drugs, you understand.</p>
<p>But suppose you&#8217;re <i>not</i> a drug dealer, but on sheer principle, you don&#8217;t <i>like</i> the idea of Big Brother knowing you have your hands on ten grand. So you withdraw, deposit or spend $9,500 instead. Well, if The Authorities find out), you can be charged with the &#8220;crime&#8221; of  &#8220;structuring&#8221; — intentionally transacting in an amount less than $10,000 in order to avoid reporting requirements. Screwed if you do, screwed if you don&#8217;t.</p>
<p>But hey, KBells, <i>you</i> hold the answer: &#8220;If you’re not doing anything wrong why do you care who sees you?&#8221;</p>
<p>Stop ask yourself just how that kind of sheeple-think contradicts everything America&#8217;s Founders stood for and sought to bequeath us. Consider just for a moment that people inherently <i>don&#8217;t like</i> to be suspected of criminal activity just because they have ten grand in their duffel bag. And that kind of presupposition of privacy shouldn&#8217;t automatically make them suspects.
<p align="right"><font POINT-SIZE=8><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://online.worldmag.com/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=375435', 500, 500)">Report comment to moderator</a></font></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Cheryl D.</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/12/02/surveillance-security/comment-page-1/#comment-375403</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheryl D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 20:09:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://online.worldmag.com/?p=18204#comment-375403</guid>
		<description>I think there is &lt;i&gt;some&lt;/i&gt; expectation of privacy in a public place if no one else is around. For instance, if a friend and I are walking down the street and alone on the street, I might tell her all sorts of things I wouldn&#039;t say in a crowded area where we might be overheard. We might even make the kinds of jokes that would be taken wrong if overheard by authorities. I think there is a difference between an officer observing a scene and &lt;i&gt;taping&lt;/i&gt; its citizens. 

I personally fret over the idea of sending a ticket through the mail based on evidence from a camera. You probably don&#039;t remember going through that particular intersection, so you can&#039;t dispute the ticket as you might if you were pulled over right then and you had a valid reason for your action, and furthermore, the person who owns the car isn&#039;t necessarily the one driving it--the driver, not the owner, should receive a ticket. In other words, video-based police action does present some problems.

Is it worth the tradeoff of privacy for safety? Perhaps. But the question is certainly worth asking, and I for one wouldn&#039;t give it an automatic yes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there is <i>some</i> expectation of privacy in a public place if no one else is around. For instance, if a friend and I are walking down the street and alone on the street, I might tell her all sorts of things I wouldn&#8217;t say in a crowded area where we might be overheard. We might even make the kinds of jokes that would be taken wrong if overheard by authorities. I think there is a difference between an officer observing a scene and <i>taping</i> its citizens. </p>
<p>I personally fret over the idea of sending a ticket through the mail based on evidence from a camera. You probably don&#8217;t remember going through that particular intersection, so you can&#8217;t dispute the ticket as you might if you were pulled over right then and you had a valid reason for your action, and furthermore, the person who owns the car isn&#8217;t necessarily the one driving it&#8211;the driver, not the owner, should receive a ticket. In other words, video-based police action does present some problems.</p>
<p>Is it worth the tradeoff of privacy for safety? Perhaps. But the question is certainly worth asking, and I for one wouldn&#8217;t give it an automatic yes.
<p align="right"><font POINT-SIZE=8><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://online.worldmag.com/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=375403', 500, 500)">Report comment to moderator</a></font></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: kBells</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/12/02/surveillance-security/comment-page-1/#comment-375383</link>
		<dc:creator>kBells</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 19:23:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://online.worldmag.com/?p=18204#comment-375383</guid>
		<description>8. Anyone could stand on the street corner and tape someone going into any of these places. If you&#039;re not doing anything wrong why do you care who sees you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>8. Anyone could stand on the street corner and tape someone going into any of these places. If you&#8217;re not doing anything wrong why do you care who sees you?
<p align="right"><font POINT-SIZE=8><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://online.worldmag.com/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=375383', 500, 500)">Report comment to moderator</a></font></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: kBells</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/12/02/surveillance-security/comment-page-1/#comment-375379</link>
		<dc:creator>kBells</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 19:05:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://online.worldmag.com/?p=18204#comment-375379</guid>
		<description>11. I agree with Ken on this one. As a woman I appreciate the extra security that gives me more freedom to move around in safety.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>11. I agree with Ken on this one. As a woman I appreciate the extra security that gives me more freedom to move around in safety.
<p align="right"><font POINT-SIZE=8><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://online.worldmag.com/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=375379', 500, 500)">Report comment to moderator</a></font></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/12/02/surveillance-security/comment-page-1/#comment-375371</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 18:55:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://online.worldmag.com/?p=18204#comment-375371</guid>
		<description>There is no expectation of privacy in a public space, so any complaint about &quot;intrusiveness&quot; of the surveillance cameras is a nonstarter. The cameras merely enhance the observational abilities of beat officers, and in this implementation, help them identify suspicious behavior worth investigating.

As a former officer I frequently checked on suspicious behavior. Sometimes a perfectly innocuous behavior merely appeared suspicious in context. I stopped a man pushing a heavy box through a deserted commercial hour after dark only to learn he had been put out of his house and was taking a shortcut with all his belongings to another place to stay. Other times it identified people who would become suspects (or witneses) as later information about crimnal activity arose.

Aggressive policing also reduces crime, by depriving criminals of some of their opportunities. Nothing a good beat officer would do, or these cameras, by enhancing the beat officers&#039; ability to observe, actually &quot;predicts&quot; crimes a la &quot;The Minority Report.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is no expectation of privacy in a public space, so any complaint about &#8220;intrusiveness&#8221; of the surveillance cameras is a nonstarter. The cameras merely enhance the observational abilities of beat officers, and in this implementation, help them identify suspicious behavior worth investigating.</p>
<p>As a former officer I frequently checked on suspicious behavior. Sometimes a perfectly innocuous behavior merely appeared suspicious in context. I stopped a man pushing a heavy box through a deserted commercial hour after dark only to learn he had been put out of his house and was taking a shortcut with all his belongings to another place to stay. Other times it identified people who would become suspects (or witneses) as later information about crimnal activity arose.</p>
<p>Aggressive policing also reduces crime, by depriving criminals of some of their opportunities. Nothing a good beat officer would do, or these cameras, by enhancing the beat officers&#8217; ability to observe, actually &#8220;predicts&#8221; crimes a la &#8220;The Minority Report.&#8221;
<p align="right"><font POINT-SIZE=8><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://online.worldmag.com/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=375371', 500, 500)">Report comment to moderator</a></font></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Peter L</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/12/02/surveillance-security/comment-page-1/#comment-375365</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 18:42:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://online.worldmag.com/?p=18204#comment-375365</guid>
		<description>There was a series on PBS recently that dealt with the oversurveillance of government called &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/lastenemy/index.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;i&gt;The Last Enemy&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt;, which “offers a frenetic ride through the paranoia and politics of a futuristic surveillance society.”  It goes right along with the idea that cameras can be used for nefarious purposes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There was a series on PBS recently that dealt with the oversurveillance of government called <a href="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/lastenemy/index.html" rel="nofollow"><i>The Last Enemy</i></a>, which “offers a frenetic ride through the paranoia and politics of a futuristic surveillance society.”  It goes right along with the idea that cameras can be used for nefarious purposes.
<p align="right"><font POINT-SIZE=8><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://online.worldmag.com/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=375365', 500, 500)">Report comment to moderator</a></font></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sawgunner</title>
		<link>http://online.worldmag.com/2008/12/02/surveillance-security/comment-page-1/#comment-375355</link>
		<dc:creator>Sawgunner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 18:29:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://online.worldmag.com/?p=18204#comment-375355</guid>
		<description>We had surveillance monitor cameras installed at the historic Texas governor&#039;s mansion. It was hit by a molotov cocktail. The state trooper in the monitor room was surfing the net instead of doing the job he was paid and trained to do.
So a camera is only as good as those staring at it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We had surveillance monitor cameras installed at the historic Texas governor&#8217;s mansion. It was hit by a molotov cocktail. The state trooper in the monitor room was surfing the net instead of doing the job he was paid and trained to do.<br />
So a camera is only as good as those staring at it.
<p align="right"><font POINT-SIZE=8><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://online.worldmag.com/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=375355', 500, 500)">Report comment to moderator</a></font></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
