Comments on: Educators need to get competitive, and imaginative http://online.worldmag.com/2008/12/04/educators-need-to-get-competitive-and-imaginative/ A forum for discussion of news that arises at the intersection of Christianity and culture. Sat, 21 Nov 2009 15:22:43 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Corrindium http://online.worldmag.com/2008/12/04/educators-need-to-get-competitive-and-imaginative/comment-page-1/#comment-376331 Corrindium Fri, 05 Dec 2008 17:09:52 +0000 http://online.worldmag.com/?p=18237#comment-376331 I was fortunate enough to attend College of the Ozarks which provides a quality education for minimal cost. The students are required to work on campus throughout the semester to pay for tuition. There is an optional summer work program that covers room & board. Students must pay their own fees (~$400 per year) and purchase their own textbooks (~$800 per year), but there are designated scholarships for those costs. The dorm facilities are very Spartan, but the college focuses on keeping costs down. Professors are not very highly paid, and must teach ~33 credit hours per year. Many professors hold part-time jobs as well. The administration is not bloated and the college has no debt maintenance costs. The college supports itself with an endowment, several working farms, a very nice hotel, property rentals, and generous donations from alumni. Unfortunately the college only has ~1500 students at a time, so it's not a widely available option. However, the concept of having students actually earn their education could be expanded into other institutions. I have heard of six colleges in the country that operate under this model. I was fortunate enough to attend College of the Ozarks which provides a quality education for minimal cost. The students are required to work on campus throughout the semester to pay for tuition. There is an optional summer work program that covers room & board. Students must pay their own fees (~$400 per year) and purchase their own textbooks (~$800 per year), but there are designated scholarships for those costs.
The dorm facilities are very Spartan, but the college focuses on keeping costs down. Professors are not very highly paid, and must teach ~33 credit hours per year. Many professors hold part-time jobs as well. The administration is not bloated and the college has no debt maintenance costs.

The college supports itself with an endowment, several working farms, a very nice hotel, property rentals, and generous donations from alumni.

Unfortunately the college only has ~1500 students at a time, so it’s not a widely available option. However, the concept of having students actually earn their education could be expanded into other institutions. I have heard of six colleges in the country that operate under this model.

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]]> By: Amphipolis http://online.worldmag.com/2008/12/04/educators-need-to-get-competitive-and-imaginative/comment-page-1/#comment-376112 Amphipolis Thu, 04 Dec 2008 21:18:45 +0000 http://online.worldmag.com/?p=18237#comment-376112 Another difference - student jobs at GCC are real. They are not just a way to get federal dollars into the college by subsidizing labor the college doesn't necessarily even want. No, the student jobs there are paid for by the school (no federal aid whatsoever), so they actually are expected to get work out of them. Another difference – student jobs at GCC are real. They are not just a way to get federal dollars into the college by subsidizing labor the college doesn’t necessarily even want. No, the student jobs there are paid for by the school (no federal aid whatsoever), so they actually are expected to get work out of them.

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]]> By: Amphipolis http://online.worldmag.com/2008/12/04/educators-need-to-get-competitive-and-imaginative/comment-page-1/#comment-376109 Amphipolis Thu, 04 Dec 2008 21:08:47 +0000 http://online.worldmag.com/?p=18237#comment-376109 Grove City professors teach. A lot. It is not a research institution. It has no graduate program. Their professors are expected to have full class loads. By the way, I also have a friend who teaches there. Their dorms are spartan but acceptable. The trend is for dorms, and other facilities, to be more and more fancy. This does not help. Grove City professors teach. A lot. It is not a research institution. It has no graduate program. Their professors are expected to have full class loads. By the way, I also have a friend who teaches there.

Their dorms are spartan but acceptable. The trend is for dorms, and other facilities, to be more and more fancy. This does not help.

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]]> By: Joel Mark http://online.worldmag.com/2008/12/04/educators-need-to-get-competitive-and-imaginative/comment-page-1/#comment-376107 Joel Mark Thu, 04 Dec 2008 21:02:15 +0000 http://online.worldmag.com/?p=18237#comment-376107 From the article: <i>"Mr. Shulenburger’s report suggested that public universities explore a variety of approaches to lower costs — distance learning, better use of senior year in high school, perhaps even shortening college from four years."</i> There is the outrage in a nutshell. The only solutions they can come up with to suggest will lower the quality while keeping the cash gushing in to 'BIG Education' without stepping up the work load of staff or faculty. What about... 1. Professors taking on more classes (instead of constantly cutting their teaching loads). Put in longer days for the love of learning!!! 2. Lower faculty and administrative salaries, just like any other business would have to consider. 3. Eliminate or reform tenure to inject healthy competition and quality control. <b>4. Dig into the ungodly huge endowments many colleges have, or redistribute the wealth from the rich schools to the less endowed schools.</b> That will take the Marxism right out of a lot of academics. 5. Significantly lower tuition costs and deal with it by tighten all belts! <b>Why must parents and students keep making the lion's share of the sacrifices and not the professors and administrators? From the article:

“Mr. Shulenburger’s report suggested that public universities explore a variety of approaches to lower costs — distance learning, better use of senior year in high school, perhaps even shortening college from four years.”

There is the outrage in a nutshell. The only solutions they can come up with to suggest will lower the quality while keeping the cash gushing in to ‘BIG Education’ without stepping up the work load of staff or faculty.

What about…

1. Professors taking on more classes (instead of constantly cutting their teaching loads). Put in longer days for the love of learning!!!

2. Lower faculty and administrative salaries, just like any other business would have to consider.

3. Eliminate or reform tenure to inject healthy competition and quality control.

4. Dig into the ungodly huge endowments many colleges have, or redistribute the wealth from the rich schools to the less endowed schools. That will take the Marxism right out of a lot of academics.

5. Significantly lower tuition costs and deal with it by tighten all belts!

Why must parents and students keep making the lion’s share of the sacrifices and not the professors and administrators?

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]]> By: klasko http://online.worldmag.com/2008/12/04/educators-need-to-get-competitive-and-imaginative/comment-page-1/#comment-376104 klasko Thu, 04 Dec 2008 20:58:48 +0000 http://online.worldmag.com/?p=18237#comment-376104 Part of the problem is that there is less and less return on our education investment. My son is in grad school for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that a 4 year degree isn't the leg up it used to be, and anymore, the masters degrees are becoming commonplace. Anymore, the diploma isn't worth the paper it's printed on in terms of landing a job that pays a living wage, and we're paying more and more for that scrap of worthless paper. Part of the problem is that there is less and less return on our education investment. My son is in grad school for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that a 4 year degree isn’t the leg up it used to be, and anymore, the masters degrees are becoming commonplace. Anymore, the diploma isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on in terms of landing a job that pays a living wage, and we’re paying more and more for that scrap of worthless paper.

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]]> By: Sawgunner http://online.worldmag.com/2008/12/04/educators-need-to-get-competitive-and-imaginative/comment-page-1/#comment-376079 Sawgunner Thu, 04 Dec 2008 20:08:35 +0000 http://online.worldmag.com/?p=18237#comment-376079 #1 Lance, We are facing a nationwide nurse shortage because so many nurse educators are retiring and not being replaced. I foresee a greater reliance on Canadian and Filipino nurses, even moreso than we are doing now. Dallas county community colleges (El Centro primarily) have a great nursing program. And the "wait list" is quite long as is the case where you live #1 Lance,
We are facing a nationwide nurse shortage because so many nurse educators are retiring and not being replaced.
I foresee a greater reliance on Canadian and Filipino nurses, even moreso than we are doing now.
Dallas county community colleges (El Centro primarily) have a great nursing program. And the “wait list” is quite long as is the case where you live

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]]> By: Sawgunner http://online.worldmag.com/2008/12/04/educators-need-to-get-competitive-and-imaginative/comment-page-1/#comment-376076 Sawgunner Thu, 04 Dec 2008 20:06:41 +0000 http://online.worldmag.com/?p=18237#comment-376076 I dont see this happening. Ever. But at the same time let me share with you my vision. What if schools had to account to someone for any upsurge in costs? Planning on hiking tuition? Fine. Then give an explanation to the state or some other governing body as to exactly why tuition has to go up. While we're all focussed on bloated costly auto plants I think we run the risk of letting higher ed off the hook and letting them continue on with biz as usual. Universities can count on having new students with Pell Grants and financial aid, to whom the U can easily pass along costs. We've all heard of student dorms or lounges outfitted with plush furnishings, marble lavatories etc. What Higer Ed in the USA needs is a WalMart or a Southwest Airlines able to deliver what the buyers truly want: rigorous thorough teaching that will serve the public at large. I dont see this happening. Ever. But at the same time let me share with you my vision.
What if schools had to account to someone for any upsurge in costs? Planning on hiking tuition? Fine. Then give an explanation to the state or some other governing body as to exactly why tuition has to go up.
While we’re all focussed on bloated costly auto plants I think we run the risk of letting higher ed off the hook and letting them continue on with biz as usual.
Universities can count on having new students with Pell Grants and financial aid, to whom the U can easily pass along costs. We’ve all heard of student dorms or lounges outfitted with plush furnishings, marble lavatories etc.
What Higer Ed in the USA needs is a WalMart or a Southwest Airlines able to deliver what the buyers truly want: rigorous thorough teaching that will serve the public at large.

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]]> By: Amphipolis http://online.worldmag.com/2008/12/04/educators-need-to-get-competitive-and-imaginative/comment-page-1/#comment-376000 Amphipolis Thu, 04 Dec 2008 17:31:48 +0000 http://online.worldmag.com/?p=18237#comment-376000 Well, OK - she is not a child any more. Well, OK – she is not a child any more.

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]]> By: Amphipolis http://online.worldmag.com/2008/12/04/educators-need-to-get-competitive-and-imaginative/comment-page-1/#comment-375999 Amphipolis Thu, 04 Dec 2008 17:31:24 +0000 http://online.worldmag.com/?p=18237#comment-375999 Ah, but your wish has come true. See Grove City College. One of the more selective schools, and one of the cheapest. Federal programs have enabled college tuition to remarkably inflate. Grove City accepts no Federal loans or other programs. Yet their tuition is low and they are thriving. And yes I have a child there. Ah, but your wish has come true. See Grove City College. One of the more selective schools, and one of the cheapest.

Federal programs have enabled college tuition to remarkably inflate. Grove City accepts no Federal loans or other programs. Yet their tuition is low and they are thriving.

And yes I have a child there.

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]]> By: Lance http://online.worldmag.com/2008/12/04/educators-need-to-get-competitive-and-imaginative/comment-page-1/#comment-375995 Lance Thu, 04 Dec 2008 17:27:37 +0000 http://online.worldmag.com/?p=18237#comment-375995 A lot of community colleges, and regional state universities, are already doing just that. It takes a bit more hunting to find the right fit for the student, but many provide a good education in programs of need in their area, at a good price. As an example, Nursing talent is in extreme demand in my area. The local community college offers a solid program in nursing that has developed nearly comparable student demand as the program at the nearby regional state university's. I know of a recent high-school graduate who ended up going out of state for nursing school because this community college program has a waiting list several semesters long to gain entrance to their program. I don't know much about the academic standards of these programs, but I do know that the regional state university's program is very well-reputed, and that my sister-in-law was very satisfied with the education she received at the community college's nursing program. Both work closely with local hospitals for on-site clinical training, and both programs are located within blocks of two major local hospitals. Just one example, but the point is that I think your proposal is being implemented in certain pockets of need. A lot of community colleges, and regional state universities, are already doing just that.

It takes a bit more hunting to find the right fit for the student, but many provide a good education in programs of need in their area, at a good price.

As an example, Nursing talent is in extreme demand in my area. The local community college offers a solid program in nursing that has developed nearly comparable student demand as the program at the nearby regional state university’s. I know of a recent high-school graduate who ended up going out of state for nursing school because this community college program has a waiting list several semesters long to gain entrance to their program.

I don’t know much about the academic standards of these programs, but I do know that the regional state university’s program is very well-reputed, and that my sister-in-law was very satisfied with the education she received at the community college’s nursing program. Both work closely with local hospitals for on-site clinical training, and both programs are located within blocks of two major local hospitals.

Just one example, but the point is that I think your proposal is being implemented in certain pockets of need.

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