Comments on: Homeless babies http://online.worldmag.com/2008/12/04/homeless-babies/ A forum for discussion of news that arises at the intersection of Christianity and culture. Fri, 19 Mar 2010 13:56:27 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: StuBob http://online.worldmag.com/2008/12/04/homeless-babies/comment-page-1/#comment-376261 StuBob Fri, 05 Dec 2008 12:55:53 +0000 http://online.worldmag.com/?p=18238#comment-376261 The answer to this false dilemma, as noted in #1 and 2 above, is to fertilize only those eggs you're willing to have implanted. It's a matter of comfort and finance, though. IVF cycles are expensive and painful, so patients want to minimize the number of cycles they undergo. Much better than embryo freezing is <i>egg</i> freezing. The success rate is lower but it comes with no ethical baggage. And, ethically, "...put[ing] the embryos 'back in the woman’s body at a time she’s not likely to conceive'" is hardly different from throwing them in the trash. The answer to this false dilemma, as noted in #1 and 2 above, is to fertilize only those eggs you’re willing to have implanted. It’s a matter of comfort and finance, though. IVF cycles are expensive and painful, so patients want to minimize the number of cycles they undergo.

Much better than embryo freezing is egg freezing. The success rate is lower but it comes with no ethical baggage.

And, ethically, “…put[ing] the embryos ‘back in the woman’s body at a time she’s not likely to conceive’” is hardly different from throwing them in the trash.

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]]> By: Cameron http://online.worldmag.com/2008/12/04/homeless-babies/comment-page-1/#comment-376226 Cameron Fri, 05 Dec 2008 04:27:27 +0000 http://online.worldmag.com/?p=18238#comment-376226 BethD, Thank you. BethD,
Thank you.

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]]> By: bethd http://online.worldmag.com/2008/12/04/homeless-babies/comment-page-1/#comment-376220 bethd Fri, 05 Dec 2008 04:15:23 +0000 http://online.worldmag.com/?p=18238#comment-376220 Cameron, Although I realize that this is a very personal decision, they do have what I think they call "Snowflake Adoptions". That is where you adopt one of these embryos that the couple cannot/will not use and carry the child to term yourself. Another possibility for couples to consider. Cameron,

Although I realize that this is a very personal decision, they do have what I think they call “Snowflake Adoptions”. That is where you adopt one of these embryos that the couple cannot/will not use and carry the child to term yourself.

Another possibility for couples to consider.

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]]> By: Cameron http://online.worldmag.com/2008/12/04/homeless-babies/comment-page-1/#comment-376152 Cameron Thu, 04 Dec 2008 22:30:14 +0000 http://online.worldmag.com/?p=18238#comment-376152 Sawgunner, They're probably about equal in time, money, effort, and risk. TJ and I won't do IVF, but we've seriously looked at international adoption. Sawgunner,
They’re probably about equal in time, money, effort, and risk.
TJ and I won’t do IVF, but we’ve seriously looked at international adoption.

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]]> By: Amphipolis http://online.worldmag.com/2008/12/04/homeless-babies/comment-page-1/#comment-376132 Amphipolis Thu, 04 Dec 2008 21:51:15 +0000 http://online.worldmag.com/?p=18238#comment-376132 An analogy would be a person stuck in a mine due to the carelessness and thoughtfulness of others. Add to that the fact that this person has been rejected by pretty much everyone, especially by those who are responsible for him being in mortal peril, who happen also to be those who would make the decisions related to his rescue. Why don't we dig a few token holes, but otherwise just leave him down there. Then have a ceremony. Yes, this is harsh. It is dark down there. People Need To Think Before They Act. An analogy would be a person stuck in a mine due to the carelessness and thoughtfulness of others. Add to that the fact that this person has been rejected by pretty much everyone, especially by those who are responsible for him being in mortal peril, who happen also to be those who would make the decisions related to his rescue.

Why don’t we dig a few token holes, but otherwise just leave him down there. Then have a ceremony.

Yes, this is harsh. It is dark down there.

People Need To Think Before They Act.

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]]> By: Amphipolis http://online.worldmag.com/2008/12/04/homeless-babies/comment-page-1/#comment-376100 Amphipolis Thu, 04 Dec 2008 20:52:29 +0000 http://online.worldmag.com/?p=18238#comment-376100 <i>a time she’s not likely to conceive</i> Conception has already occurred. It's not like it has much if anything to do with ovulation, the time most likely to conceive. The baby could implant in her uterus. Even during menstruation. I think it is just silly. If they are going to do a sloppy job, not really intending for the child to survive, they may as well just flush it. Either it is a human life, in which case it should be given every reasonable chance, or it is not. I would save the child for future adoption. Who knows, with declining fertility there may come a day when these children are very wanted. http://www.nightlight.org/snowflakeadoption.htm It is amazing to me that these couples have not thought this through. a time she’s not likely to conceive

Conception has already occurred. It’s not like it has much if anything to do with ovulation, the time most likely to conceive. The baby could implant in her uterus. Even during menstruation.

I think it is just silly. If they are going to do a sloppy job, not really intending for the child to survive, they may as well just flush it. Either it is a human life, in which case it should be given every reasonable chance, or it is not.

I would save the child for future adoption. Who knows, with declining fertility there may come a day when these children are very wanted.
http://www.nightlight.org/snowflakeadoption.htm

It is amazing to me that these couples have not thought this through.

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]]> By: Sawgunner http://online.worldmag.com/2008/12/04/homeless-babies/comment-page-1/#comment-376072 Sawgunner Thu, 04 Dec 2008 19:59:25 +0000 http://online.worldmag.com/?p=18238#comment-376072 Which costs less and entails less risk/liability: a trip to China to pick up an unwanted newborn or having an IVF embryo emplanted? Which costs less and entails less risk/liability: a trip to China to pick up an unwanted newborn or having an IVF embryo emplanted?

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]]> By: gudmundsson http://online.worldmag.com/2008/12/04/homeless-babies/comment-page-1/#comment-375992 gudmundsson Thu, 04 Dec 2008 17:21:07 +0000 http://online.worldmag.com/?p=18238#comment-375992 Whether an embryo is human life or potential human life does not depend on who we are, as HSK claims. It depends on what the embryo is. Reality is in the stubborn habit of being what it is, regardless of our opinions or preferences. So what is an ambryo? It's clearly human (human genes, not dog or cat or anthrax or fern genes), and clearly alive (nutrition, respiration, etc.) By what stretch of logic can we imagine it's anything other than human life? Are we not simply playing semantic games in our own minds, in order to justify our own choices? Whether an embryo is human life or potential human life does not depend on who we are, as HSK claims. It depends on what the embryo is. Reality is in the stubborn habit of being what it is, regardless of our opinions or preferences.

So what is an ambryo? It’s clearly human (human genes, not dog or cat or anthrax or fern genes), and clearly alive (nutrition, respiration, etc.) By what stretch of logic can we imagine it’s anything other than human life?
Are we not simply playing semantic games in our own minds, in order to justify our own choices?

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]]> By: Cheryl D. http://online.worldmag.com/2008/12/04/homeless-babies/comment-page-1/#comment-375990 Cheryl D. Thu, 04 Dec 2008 17:19:45 +0000 http://online.worldmag.com/?p=18238#comment-375990 I think it is possible to do ethical IVF (only create the number of embryos you are committed to implanting--and only implant the number that you could carry and raise if all "took"). But it's expensive, so people tend to hedge their bets with extras. I think it is possible to do ethical IVF (only create the number of embryos you are committed to implanting–and only implant the number that you could carry and raise if all “took”). But it’s expensive, so people tend to hedge their bets with extras.

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]]> By: Ree http://online.worldmag.com/2008/12/04/homeless-babies/comment-page-1/#comment-375973 Ree Thu, 04 Dec 2008 16:38:40 +0000 http://online.worldmag.com/?p=18238#comment-375973 It seems to me that when couples make the choice to have all these eggs fertilized, they already know that they most likely won't be using all of them. It's not as if they just found themselves in this situation--with a bunch of embryos that won't be carried to full term. They planned it that way. If the couples had any scruples about creating babies only to destroy them, they wouldn't have had in vitro fertilization in the first place. So why are they suddenly finding themselves with this dilemma on their hands, as if they'd never thought of it before? It seems to me that when couples make the choice to have all these eggs fertilized, they already know that they most likely won’t be using all of them. It’s not as if they just found themselves in this situation–with a bunch of embryos that won’t be carried to full term. They planned it that way. If the couples had any scruples about creating babies only to destroy them, they wouldn’t have had in vitro fertilization in the first place. So why are they suddenly finding themselves with this dilemma on their hands, as if they’d never thought of it before?

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