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The Obamas between churches
The Chicago Tribune writes today about Barack Obama’s “church dilemma,” noting his lack of attendance at Christmas services, or any at all since his election. He has said he is relying on spiritual direction from trusted pastors.
Barack Obama has long stressed the importance of religion in his life.
But as his fellow Christians around the world attended Christmas services on Wednesday and Thursday, the president-elect and his family remained sequestered at their vacation compound on the windward coast of Oahu.
His lack of attendance at formal religious services showcased a dilemma faced by Obama, who is between churches and often expresses concern about bringing the disruption of his security detail into the lives of others.
Still, he has not attended a public church service since before being elected, a departure from the actions of his two immediate predecessors.
Church attendance between election and the presidency seems simply historical, not exactly a mark of spiritual sincerity. Once presidents take office they rarely attend church services. Thoughts?
back to top42 Comments to “The Obamas between churches”
Perhaps they could find someone to do services for the family and a few close friends in the White House. Would the ACLU go ballistic over something like that?
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B. O. has stopped doing a lot of things since he was elected. Are we surprised? NOT!
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Let me see,
Obama is dealing with:
1) an economic crisis of the size not seen since the Great Depression
2) attempting get his team ready for the running the administration which is facing these challenges
3) getting his kids ready to change homes and schools
4) serching for a new church
among other things.
Hmm, I sense that all of tis activity probably wont be completed in one swoop.
I do think that you would be more concerned if he did not attend to the economic crisis than you would be if he had not yet stabilized how he intended obervse his relgious services.
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Re the list in #3, for a Christian that would be all the more reason to spend time seeking wisdom and a right perspective via the worship of God.
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Ronald Reagan did not attend church, either. His reason was that he did not want to disrupt the services with all the secret service agents, etc. I can understand a president not attending. I would not want to attend the same church with a president, since I would not want to go through all the security just to worship on Sunday. I agree kbells about having a service at the White House.
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Musing,
Obama wasn’t dealing with anything on his vacation except the ocean, and working out (which he finds time for every day) Hawaii has lots of churches, even those on the sand, held every Sunday and I’m sure Christmas –
I agree with you Donna; “that would be all the more reason to spend time seeking wisdom and a right perspective via the worship of God.”
And what about the children and Michelle? – yep its time to hit the beach, then open presents -
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victoria post 6/donna post 4,
and you know this for a fact?
And again you are sure that he did not “spend time seeking wisdom and a right perspective via the worship of God”.
All you can say is that he did not attend church.
But we see how quickly certtain people will raise alarm based on no information.
But of course if you do have facts and data on these points, by all means provide them. If they withstand scrutiny, I will be happy to apologize.
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Have a nice weekend Musing – stepping up on your silly merry-go-round on the blog is like talking to a kid who constantly says “why” no matter how many answers are given –
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victoria post 8,
indeed asking for substantiation is so embarrasing if the poster has none.
And on this point you obviously have no substantiation.
Have a good weekend victoria!
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Musing: We cannot know the inner circumstances, you are absolutely right. And I do not wish to be critical of someone’s personal decisions, especially someone who is in such a public light. We do not know if he has sought personal spiritual counsel.
But the Bible does command believers to worship him together & I’m speaking from my personal perspective that missing some kind of public worship for weeks or months would not be a good thing.
I couldn’t manage it unless I were absolutely unable to attend. ]
If the appearances in this case are misleading, I definitely apologize.
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Again, I think we need to be praying about the church the Obamas decide to affiliate with after they move to Washington, that it will be a place where the gospel is faithfully preached.
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Politics trampled that spring into a mud hole. If Peter L wouldn’t want to attend service with a POTUS, you can imagine Obama couldn’t attend without watching the News watching the Secret Service and congregation watch him attend. On Monday morning, Obama could watch theologians analyze the preacher.
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#6 Musing
“Let me see,
Obama is dealing with:
1) an economic crisis of the size not seen since the Great Depression …”
And what can the President Elect do?
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Bob
Not much until he takes office – Musing hasn’t thought of that -
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Only on worldmagblog would people be obsessing whether or not a President Elect was going to church or not.
As far as I can tell, Roger Williams was a very devout Christian and a very good man. He acted more ethically than many of his Puritan neighbors. The most severe criticism of Roger Williams several people at wmb have offered to me is that by the end of his life he refused to join a church. I think the phrase “superficial thinking” applies to Roger and to this discussion here today.
#6 Actually, I suspect that Victoria’s comments provide a fairly good guide to thoughts to be skeptical and careful about.
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The concern comes in the context that he and his family are professing Christians.
As such, separating themselves (for several months now, apparently) from church affiliation or attendance after leaving Trinity & the Rev. Wright (thankfully), is a legitimate concern or, at best, a curiosity. Wondering about it is not strange and it is not an “obsession.”
Whether he ever goes to church again or not does not mean that Obama cannot be a highly ethical president. The issue raised here is more of a spiritual concern, I think, for his personal well-being as a professing believer.
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Donna, the fact that Obama has two daughers who most likely aren’t going to Sunday School and Church is a concern – I had read not so long ago that Michelle rarely attended Sunday School or Church as a child, that may play into mix as well.
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No matter which church the Obama’s go to or don’t go to, someone will complain.
Aren’t there a few military bases near DC? Maybe he could go to one. Protection would be much simpler, I would think.
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Victoria — Good point about the family/children.
I don’t think we are trying to be overly critical here (to those who think otherwise); I think our concern again is about the family’s spiritual well being — and remember, they’re the ones who have professed to being Christians. Not going to church at all is curious.
While there always will be some critics of whatever church they select, it seems that if they are Christians, it’s only natural that they would want to associate with a congregation in the area of what will be their new home for the next several years.
If they are not Christians, perhaps it won’t matter to them (or us) whether they attend any church at all, although history dictates that most presidents and their families establish such an affiliation. Anywhere someone, believer or not, hears the gospel faithfully preached is a good place to be.
Seems there would be a number of “safe” choices if its political correctness they’re concerned about, mainlines that still retain some of the original liturgy (so at least the scriptures are read) but tilt liberal on social issues.
Not the best choice in my mind, of course, but surely no worse (in terms of skewing and politicizing the gospel so wildly) than their former church in Chicago, right?
(And I’d add that if they frequetnly skipped church and/or Sunday School at their previous church, that could only have been to their ultimate benefit.)
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It is lonely at the top. My heart goes out to him. So I’ll be praying that Obama finds some genuine Christians to interact with since for the last 20 years he has been fed another gospel.
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15. It is very odd that you are still surprised that people on a Christian blog would want to talk about church.
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Church involvement for Obama has always been mostly political. Now that his main political goal has been achieved, church is no longer of much use to him—pretty standard behavior for his type.
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Michael (22): You may be right. But I hope not.
While your theory has crossed my mind — more than once, I confess — I think it’s important to give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to his profession of faith. No one can know another’s heart, we cannot say if he is or isn’t a Christian.
My sense is that if he is, he is not a particularly informed (biblically) or mature Christian; his former church certainly didn’t help in that category.
But if God has called him, connecting with a local church and getting sound private biblical counsel will be a pressing matter that he’ll naturally want to pursue.
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Donna
How much “benefit” do we give a man or woman who believes that abortion is right? What kind of Christians are we who don’t stand for the life of a child, and tell those who are supporting the slaughter of infants that it is nothing but EVIL, but instead stay SILENT? Is supporting abortion and voting for it time after time “good fruit” ? – or are we as Christians to overlook this stinking fruit as if we can’t smell or see it?
His former church isn’t in charge of his heart, he is.
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Victoria:
I don’t disagree with any of what you’ve said. He alone is responsible before God.
I suppose I’m just willing and hoping that if he is a believer, that he will begin to grow in grace and knowledge — and be convicted of those things that are unbiblical.
We will all have to wait and see — and keep praying.
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The abortion issue — along with his possible supreme court nominees — rank among my biggest concerns regarding this new president.
I hope I’m wrong about this. It’s important for us to pray that God gives him wisdom.
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Sorry, I should have given the headline, date and writer:
Thursday, November 13, 2008
By Fred Lucas, Staff Writer
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Bob and Victoria: What the president-elect can and MUST do is prepare. Choose cabinet members, study the issues (including the financial crisis), seek good counsel and develop plans.
I guess you think the period between election and inauguration is downtime? Or do you think at all?
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Rule #1 – always call politicians Christians and since they are Christians, pray for wisdom for them. When they govern without wisdom, see rule #1.
Gag
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#29 SteveG
“I guess you think the period between election and inauguration is downtime? Or do you think at all?”
Well, Obama went back to Hawaii so he did take some down time. As for the last little jab, why did you put that in?
I was just trying to put Musing’s musings
(“Let me see,
Obama is dealing with:
1) an economic crisis of the size not seen since the Great Depression”)
into a little perspective. I seem to remember that before the nomination was over, Obama was acting like it was over and Hillary could and should just quit, take her marbles ad go home. A friend or two of mine really didn’t like that attitude on his part.
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Bob: Yes, he took a brief vacation. But you spoke as if he’s got nothing to do until Jan. 20.
You earned that “last little jab.” A moment’s thought tells you that there is an awful lot the man about to become president can be doing about the financial crisis right now. Preparing to deal with it is as time-consuming as the actual dealing with it.
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#32
That is not what was said.
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SteveG,
You basically argue that he just has too many really important things on his plate right now to pay any attention to his supposed faith.
That is nonsense. He is spending 12 days on vacation in Hawaii. I don’t begrudge him the vacation, but it certainly shows your argument to be fallacious.
Secondly, the real Christian knows by the admonitions in God’s word and by experience, that one’s reliance on God should increase, not decrease, when you experience difficult circumstances. He doesn’t seem to be following that pattern amidst the pressing concerns you cite.
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Bob: It was actually Victoria who claimed that Obama cannot do much about the financial crisis before Jan. 20. You simply asked the question that implied it.
The clear implication is that he’s not going to be very busy, specifically regarding the financial crisis, until inauguration. However it’s said, it remains incorrect.
Michael Martin: You and people like you are going to criticize everything Obama does until the day he leaves office and very likely beyond that. If he were taking time to research and try churches in D.C. — with the inevitable security issues and disruptions that would cause — you would be criticizing him for neglecting preparation to deal with the nation’s problems, and for disrupting worship for the attendees at those churches.
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Steveg – 35
YOU WRITE: “with the inevitable security issues and disruptions that would cause — you would be criticizing him for neglecting preparation to deal with the nation’s problems, and for disrupting worship for the attendees at those churches.”
Your CRYSTAL BALL should be put back in your toy box – you don’t know what other people think, nor do you have the ability to know what they might post – LOL
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I think an easy solution would be to establish a White House church, for the first family, staff and invited guests. If it were me, I would invite the local PCA pastor to preach every Sunday. If he was willing he could preach at the White House church either before or after his regular service. I would have Sunday School too, and also communion—a sacrament that should not be neglected. The White House church would be the daughter church of his local congregation and occasionally we would actually attend the main church.
Security issues and congregational disruptions would thus be minimized. My family and I would be fed spiritually; we would thus also participate as much as practical with a local body of believers and not neglect our responsibilities in this area. Even if I were not in town, I would still keep the White House church going every Sunday.
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Actually, I agree having services at the White House would be ideal. For some reason, few if any presidents have done so. (And no, there should be no Constitutional issues with that.)
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21
15. It is very odd that you are still surprised that people on a Christian blog would want to talk about church.
I don’t think it odd that people in a Christian blog want to talk about church. I think it odd that people who expect the worst of Obama, think that his going to church would set their minds at ease.
Also, Obama strikes me as very skillful at manipulating his political image. He’s in the same tradition in that skill as Karl Rove, Lee Atwater, and Ronald Reagan (though on a different side), and similar also to FDR and Martin Luther King who were closer to his point of view.
What is odd is that he hasn’t taken the trouble of going through the motions of projecting what a good person am I–I go to church which would be easy enough to do.
After all, he invited Rick Warren to give his invocation.
Though Rick Warren doesn’t seem to be that much admired around here.
I guess he just doesn’t care very much about you guys opinion of him. Imagine that.
No doubt he’ll come to rue that disdain.
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From the original post:
Church attendance between election and the presidency seems simply historical, not exactly a mark of spiritual sincerity. Once presidents take office they rarely attend church services. Thoughts?
If this is indeed the case, why should it be an issue at all if Obama doesn’t attend church now as president-elect or stops attending later as president? While gathering with other believers is important, it’s not always a gauge of spirituality.
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40 HOPESPRINGS:
Worldmag respects and applauds Warren very much – see The Politics of Prayer: http://www.worldmag.com/webextra/14825
Personally, I did not expect anything else from our President Elect. I don’t believe him to be saved, based on what he has said he believes – therefore I do not expect him to make time to go to church. And if he is saved, considering that he has promised to support gay marriage and abortion, I would assume that he is running from God – and therefore he would not want to go to church.
I do not hate Obama, and I am praying for him as much as possible. My point is that we should not be surprised that he is not purposing to go to church, if he not showing any other evidence of belief.
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Well, you may be right on either count, JT. Frankly, Obama’s church attendance means very little to me because I don’t expect much in the way of spiritual behaviour from any president. I guess I figure that if you have climbed the political ladder and reached the top rung, there have probably been some spiritual compromises already. I’m not dogmatic (nor omniscient); just musing.
As for, Rick Warren giving the invocation at the inauguration, that means very little to me either. I don’t know much about the man other than his authorship of the Purpose Driven Life. I think he would be better off if he gave the prayer and got out of the political atmosphere completely after that.
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