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Today’s quote, profound in its simplicity, is from a Danish philosopher and theologian: “Now, with God’s help, I shall become myself.”
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back to top39 Comments to “Whirled Views 1.8”
Good quote!
Mornin’ friends–I have a question for you. We’re experiencing something strange from our 10 year old son (it’s actually been going on for a few years.) He seems to have these strange, uncontrollable “tics”–the most often one being rolling his eyes to the back of his head. They do seem to increase with stress, but we notice it even during relaxed times such as dinner, or watching a movie. My husband wants to go the route of disciplining him for it, but I’m not convinced that’s the way to go since I’m not really sure what is causing it. Have any of you ever experienced this in yourself or in a child? Or do you know a reliable website to search for information? Our computer is so slow I don’t like to waste time (dial-up, and we have to drag the cord from the living room through the kitchen to connect–hence why I don’t come here everyday!)
Thanks in advance!
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Momoffour, I know nothing about this, so I can’t help, except for this. Discipline is not the way to go. I’m sure he is not doing this deliberately. You need professinal advice.
Back on Tuesday’s “What’s in a Name” thread. I came on last night with a comment which I will repeat here because it’s somewhat unusual and significant.
Texas governor Jim Hogg named his daughter Ima. Ima never married, so she went through life with that name. The significant part is that she became famous in Texas in the mid 1900’s as a patron of the arts and philanthorpist. I was in a dedication meeting once when the MC was talking about the contributions of “Miss Ima Hogg”. It was difficult but I suppressed my mirth. I’m sure others had the same problem.
TJ, I’m glad I wasn’t there to make the announcements. I couldn’t resist sying, “Will Will Barrow come to the office?”
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Momoffour,
There are physiological reasons for tics. Discipling him for it might only frustrate your husband to say nothing of your son. Have you talked to your pediatrician? You could look up Touret’s Syndrome (I’m sure I’m not spelling that right). I’d be careful with the online stuff. I think the med links are good once a doctor had diagnosed the problem. Just ask Stubob
But before a diagnosis it make you worry over much, if you know what I mean.
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As for the quote, it sounds Kierkeguardish. Postive I didn’t spell that right. Is he Danish? All I know is his name as one more ‘a’ than any name needs and I missed it, but don’t know where it goes.
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In the back of my mind, I had thought perhaps some form or Tourets; but the one case I knew of it from college was much worse. The poor young man would spout out obscenities in the middle of class. But I suppose there are “levels.”
Chas–I don’t agree with disciplining him for it either. So far, I’m winning that “argument” (I think my husband is just frustrated b/c it is something he can’t fix.) Right now, I have a “quiet symbol” (I put my finger on my nose and look in son’s eyes) to bring attention to the fact that he is doing it. He will stop, but usually soon after start again.
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4 – Kirkegaard. There are two a’s side by side.
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Oops, Adios, you were right about the Kierke part. So we both spelled it wrong today!
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Momoffour: Seems like the first step would be to test for/rule out any possible physical cause.
Christmas is over, but I was reading the belated Christmas newsletter I received this week from my former retired pastor and I was struck by his last lines. He was talking about how fun many of the sentimental “B” holiday movies are to watch every year with the grandkids, but how they promote so many “American cult myths”:
“Once again we learn to think with our hearts, not with our heads. The underlying assumption that salvation is earned by good works, and almost all of us have done a good work or two since human nature is ‘basically good.’ Just as I find myself grieved at the blindness of our culture, anomaly of anomalies, the radio rings out ‘veiled in flesh the godhead see, hail the incarnate deity,’ and there it is!
“The astounding miracle of Christmas is not talking reindeer, but the Lord of Glory becoming a man for the purpose of our salvation. … Praise the Lord!”
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I’ve a friend whose child had the same problem, Momoffour. Your son needs to be examined by a doctor. While he was diagnosed with Tourette’s ten years ago–which is not necessarily what your child has–he’s been able to manage it somehow and is now in pharmacy school.
In the wonderfully fun but unusual category, my adorable grandbaby is leaving for the weekend–he’ll be attending his great-grandfather’s wedding!
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Michelle, I went to my grandparents wedding. THAT went over well when I shared it with the class at Christian school. My grandparents were married for 21 years, divorced for 21, and married for 22.
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In addition to Tourette’s, there is something called “tic douloureux” — for all I know it is the same thing. Take the child to a doctor. People don’t do these things without a reason.
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The good news about Tourette’s is that the yelling obscenities thing is rare. I learned that while watching a Hallmark Hall of Fame movie, true story, about a young man with Tourette’s who persevered against prejudice to became a teacher.
(I am such a sucker for those Hallmark Hall of Fame movies that make you cry at the end.)
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I liked how they treated Tourette’s in What About Bob with Bob and his psychiatrist’s son, Sigmund If I fake it, then I don’t have it!
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When my older daughter was 13 & 14, she went through a time of getting out-of-control with her emotions, even once or twice becoming a bit violent with me (for which she later felt great remorse). It was not her usual personality, & the behavior would go away after a day or 2.
My SIL insisted Emily needed “professional help”, but first I talked it over with my pastor’s wife (& good friend), who knows teens & understands their behavior very well. She asked if it seemed to happen on a monthly basis (yes), & if Emily had started menstruating yet (no).
She explained that some girls, on the cusp of beginning menstruation, will exhibit very strange behavior which will go away once they begin menstruating.
Sure enough, Emily got her period that summer, & that out-of-control behavior ceased. It was scary while it lasted, though.
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Bianca – I like that movie.
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MomofFour,
No experience in that area, however, in 1 you mentioned uncontrollable and in 5, you mention he can control it when it is brought to his attention. So, if you can afford it, get a doc opinion. Otherwise, perhaps it is some habit he developed along the way which he can control, similar to nail biting, knuckle popping, etc. Kids vary. Wise man you got there.
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MomofFour, It is possible it is stress even though you don’t see what kind of stress he may have. That is true of all of us. Discipline will only make it worse, IMO. Some children are more sensitive than others and it may be the case here. Of course, I would want to rule anything physical out also.
It seems your method of handling it is a loving and wise one, although I do wonder if putting undue attention on it, can exacerbate it?
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Please don’t put undue attention on all those grammatical errors of mine. :0
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Still too much ice to get out of the driveway. We had a lot of drifting and before the kids and I could get that off the two hundred feet of driveway, it melted/rained enough to develop ice, snowed, more ice, etc. Now, though the rest of the roads are cleared, we are still stuck. That does not bother me at all, I could be homebound all winter with no problem. But the kids are supposed to be in band so we are optimistic we may make it in the near future. One of these days. Meantime, it is fun to watch the son try to bring the firewood in on the toboggan on a sheet of ice!
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KI,
What manner of discipline are we talking about here? The kind where the parent finds creative ways to encourage the child to pay attention and not do the deed? Or punishment for doing something he does not yet have the tools to master? I suggest, if it is not a physiological problem, the type of discipline to teach him how to gain control would be appropriate, not the kind where he is in trouble for doing it.
Lots of things come to mind: Tourettes, epilepsy, add, etc, but it can also just be a habit he picked up and he needs to unlearn.
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Momoffour, I consulted the Internet about a problem I was having with my son. After being scared to death by a couple of sites, I ran across one that recommended calling his pediatrician.(it was not a physical problem) One of the first things the nurse told me was to stay off the Internet. That would be my advice talk to a doctor and stay off the Internet.
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I’ll second Karen O: Tourrette’s usually does not involve yelling obscenities & is characterized by any of a form of tics, which are, as I understand them (I’m an English person, not a medical person) repetitive and uncontrollable behaviours.
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Now, I have a question of my own. I’m teaching a basic freshman-level English class this semester in argument & persuasive writing (college-level). While I intend to focus primarily on written forms of argument, I’d like to utilize a variety of other media forms, especially online ones. Can any of you suggest good, regularly-updated and academic (as opposed to personal) blogs that I can use as examples?
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Bianca,
Thanks for finding me that extra ‘a’
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Mumsee, you are right, IMO. I was responding to momoffour’s comment about her husband wanting to discipline him. It was obviously to be done in a different way that she was already doing. I guess I assumed she was speaking more of punishment than making him aware of it and helping him quit the behavior.
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Where’s Anlir with his College Football picks posts? There’s unfinished business with the mythical National Championship on the line tonight.
I pick OU over the Gators 38-33. I hope it’s a good game.
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Oh, Travis, I hope you’re wrong! I will have 2 VERY sad little guys here if Tebow doesn’t lead the Gators to victory!
They got Gator gear for Christmas…they were thrilled! They just learned to be “fans” in the last couple of years, and it’s really cute.
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Travis- we’ll just do our own contest. Sooners 40-31.
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Thanks for the help, guys. As far as uncontrollable/ controllable, what I meant was–he doesn’t seem to know he is doing it (the tics) and does it quite frequently, but if I bring attention to it quietly, he can stop for a short period of time. I did google Touret’s, and it does seem he *may* have a “form” of it. What I learned is that it seems to onset between 5 and 7 (about when he started, it was first grade), peaks at age 10 (his age right now), and is more common in boys than girls. One of the more common non-verbal tics is rolling of the eyes (his most prominent one).
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Momoffour #1:
One of my siblings has had tics since early childhood. (He is now ten years old.) My mom recommends the book Tics and Tourette’s, (www.ticsandtourettes.com) by Sheila J. Rogers. My brother is epileptic and has recently gone on medication which also helped to suppress the tics. However, tics are not limited to epilepsy. He is also on a special diet, called the Feingold diet, that eliminates all food additives and preservatives as well as certain vegetables and fruits that belong to the salicylate family. This helped to decrease the frequency of the tic manifestations. The website for this diet is http://www.feingold.org. There are two books about the diet; one written by Dr. Feingold who developed the diet and a newer edition, which my mom recommends. The newer edition is by a different author.
Tics are triggered by something for a child. My brother’s tics are triggered mostly by stress and certain foods. It’s important to discover what the triggers are so that you can treat them. Tics are involuntary behaviors and cannot be controlled by discipline.
You would be welcome to contact us for more information or if you have questions that my mom could answer better than I. sylvieswim05@sbcglobal.net
I hope this helps you!
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Sylvie–the information you just gave me is an ENOURMOUS help to me. I’m going to check out those websites right now! Thank you so very much, and God bless!
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Momoffour
I would seek medical attention ASAP – leaving something like this to linger isn’t a good choice this could be a serious medical problem. A good Pediatrician would know much more about this problem then anyone here on the blog.
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You are probably right Victoria–I just wanted to get a little insight first. As of this instant, b/c we felt convicted to cancel our children’s health insurance they had through the state, none of us have any insurance. So I really want to try to figure things out on my own as much as I can. That said, I wouldn’t wait if I felt like it was an emergency!
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I’ll be praying for your son, Mom o’ Four. What’s his name? Or would you rather not say?
Hey, Rio, if you’re around, what about Tom Joad is fascinating to you?
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New topic: I was listening to Laura Ingraham last night, and she was being critical of Barack Obama’s lack of fluency when responding to questions. You know what she means, how he has long pauses and streches out some words (”Aaand, thaaat). While it is rather tiresome listening, I do not fault the man. I would rather have him thinking through what he is trying to say instead of the open-mouth-insert-foot problem his VP has. Also, my wife shares this tendency with him, so I am used to it (though it is still tedious to carry on a conversation, as I am always finishing her sentences for her to her frustration). Besides this trait, my wife also shares Mr Obama’s exact birthday.
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Momoffour,
You should also check out essential tremor. Mine started when I was a teenager with my hands shaking. My parents thought it was a “tic” and would jump on my case about it. When I watched TV or did anything that involved sitting still I would shake without even realizing it. As an adult it has moved to my head. Now I cannot read for long periods of time without my head shaking.
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Some sensible investment advice from investment management firm Darrell & King, as reported in the Washington Times, “Turn your TV off!”
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As to discipline, I know little about Tourette’s (though this sounds like it), but an effective treatment for autism in many kids (I’ve done some reading about this) is consistently working with them on the problem issues. It’s very complicated and intense, but the basic idea is to encourage the behaviors you want instead of the ones you don’t. So you practice, intensively, on the issues you want: answering basic questions, making eye contact, stopping habitual hand movements, etc.
This is almost certainly a different issue, but when I was young (about 12) I developed a habit of “rolling my eyes,” and I can say exactly what it came from, though I’m not sure any of my family could. In my youth, I was “alone” in my family: My mom and dad had each other, and my younger brother and sister formed a pair and left me out. They often ganged up on me in various ways, such as picking on me about acne. At one point, they developed a habit of doing things such as pointing to their own faces to indicate a spot on mine that I had a pimple, or making a nasty face, or something of the like. If I turned away, the sibling would make the face. Turn away again and one of them would have his/her face right in mine. I couldn’t move my focus anywhere in the room without their being there. Mom and Dad didn’t know what was going on, or didn’t stop it.
I didn’t want to give them the victory of closing my eyes, so I learned to “look away” by rolling my eyes up. Soon it became my general expression of disgust: “Cheryl’s looking at the ceiling again!” It was a rather short-lived phenomenon, maybe a year or two, but it had a definite purpose and in my case was NOT just a tic. If my brother and sister had asked me why I did it, I would not have told them. If a parent had asked me (privately) why I did, I would have explained.
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Momoffour
If the tics increase while watching TV or on the computer, the tics may be minor seizures. A student of mine had a grand mal seizure when she was on the computer. In talking with the mother, I found out she was having minor tics, headaches etc when on the computer or watching TV. The interaction between the computer screen and fluorescent lightning made it worse and set off the seizure.
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