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Sensationalism or truth: Terror training camps in the U.S.
Robert Spencer lives in seclusion. That’s because he’s spent the last several years exposing the jihadist threat in the United States, and it’s usually a good idea not to let the crazies know where you live. Now, in Human Events, Spencer defends a documentary film on U.S.-based terror training camps that CBS News calls “sensationalistic.”
A new documentary from the Christian Action Network, Homegrown Jihad: The Terrorist Camps Around the U.S., tells the whole shocking story. CAN spent two years visiting many of these Jamaat ul-Fuqra terror compounds, at great risk to network personnel. The documentary filmmakers dared to go inside these camps, cameras rolling, to ask compound leaders pointed questions about who they were and what they were doing.
The documentary reveals that these compounds are dedicated to the training of Muslims in terrorist activities. Most of these camps are tucked away in remote rural areas — Hancock, N.y., Red House, Va. — as far away from the watchful eye of law enforcement as possible. And what goes on in them is truly hair-raising: a training video that the network obtained shows American Muslims receiving training in how to fire AK-47 rifles and machine guns, and how to use rocket launchers, mortars, and explosives, as well as training in kidnapping, the murder of hostages, sabotage, and subversive operations.
Yet the State Department doesn’t include Jamaat ul-Fuqra on its Foreign Terrorist Organization Watch List. And so far the mainstream media’s reaction to the documentary has run from indifferent to hostile. CBS News ran a hit piece on the film last Wednesday, saying that “officials describe the film to CBS News as ‘sensationalistic’ and without any real foundation. According to one official, it is strictly designed to upset and inflame people and does not present a true picture of any so-called ‘homegrown Jihad’ danger. No current intelligence exists to suggest any threat connected with this group, which officials describe as ‘wannabes’ and not terrorists.”
Question: Isn’t any trainee in any field, by definition, a “wannabe?” Meanwhile, according to Spencer, there is “current intelligence” on Jamaat ul-Fuqra, the group CAN charges with running the terror camps — and that intel is posted on at least one government website.
Here’s that link as well as links to a two-minute overview of the CAN film and Spencer’s piece on Jamaat ul-Fuqra in Human Events.
Who is telling the truth here? Spencer and CAN, or CBS?
back to top38 Comments to “Sensationalism or truth: Terror training camps in the U.S.”
Does it accomplish anything to ask uninformed readers to view one “pro” and one “con” link, then speculate on this? Seems to me WMB reporters should be willing to investigate thoroughly, state a conclusion not based on speculation, and then suggest what we as readers, and what our government, might do with the information.
In a similar vein, I saw a recent article about a lot of presently-empty “detention camps” in existence in the U.S., already staffed with military guards, surrounded by barbed wire, ready to house dissenters or unruly people during a major crisis.
I thought (or maybe hoped) it was an urban myth, or at least overstated. After that I saw a post — I think at WMB, though maybe at another Christian news service — that a senator was now trying to introduce legislation for just such camps to be developed.
That made me think again! But there’s no evidence any follow up is being made to prove or disprove the situation, or give us the info to express our opinions on what should be done about such things.
Let’s have some solid reporting / sleuthing, and not be tossed unproveable, untraceable rumors.
Seems to me these are more occasions for Christians to be called to PRAY!
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Marilee writes: Does it accomplish anything to ask uninformed readers to view one “pro” and one “con” link, then speculate on this? Seems to me WMB reporters should be willing to investigate thoroughly, state a conclusion not based on speculation, and then suggest what we as readers, and what our government, might do with the information.
Marilee, I appreciate your sentiments. The blog is a WORLD Mag venue where we do quick posts on issues of the day that our readers might not have come across elsewhere. It’s more a space for awareness and discussion than for reporting.
It is in the print magazine, and in the news portion of our website, that WORLD reporters do exactly what you’re suggesting.
Thanks!
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A “wannabe” fantasizes what it would be like if he/she were to pick up a gun, while a real threat DOES pick up a gun. In between, said wannabe/threat posts digital photos online of him/herself posing dramatically with a weapon, expecting they will be found later.
As for JuF, a 2002 online article in the Weekly Standard describes a connection between their leader and the disappearance of Daniel Pearl. See http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000%5C000%5C000%5C996lxfmd.asp or search for “Sheikh Gilani’s American Disciples”
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Quick, arm all the Christians. An armory in every parish, I tell you, that’s the only way…Where’s that van Wyk guy when we really need him…
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In 1994 Stephen Emerson produced an award winning documentary for PBS called, Terrorists Among Us – Jihad in America.
The documentary begins in front of the World Trade Center after its first bombing. He then simply captures video of what is being preached in your neighborhood mosques. He also shows Muslim charities and conferences that advocate terror and the overthrow of America. He visits Muslim summer camps for kids where children are being taught to kill Jews.
After it aired, Muslim groups were outraged not at what was going on, but with Emerson for exposing the truth. Due to numerous death threats he was forced to go into hiding. PBS immediately dropped the documentary from their catalog and the video itself went underground for a time. A low quality version of it is now available again on Amazon.
This was in 1994! No one cared then. No one cares now, because Islam is a religion of peace. When terror strikes again, everyone will be blamed except the terrorists and the people who refuse to acknowledge that this problem even exists.
The State Department doesn’t care. The news media doesn’t care.
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Wait a minute! In the early 90s the FBI and state-level law enforcemts were vigorously responding to the militia movemt, esp after Tim McVeigh and friends detonated their truck bomb outside the Murrah Bldg.
As for this US-based jihadi movemt having its own training camp.. on US soil no less? I spoze all the “investigative reporters” are too focussed on the rebranding of Blackwater Security and the actions of its employees in Iraq or Afghanistan to worry about any little piddlin’ training camp off in the woods somewhere.
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Someone better notify the Southern Poverty Law Center that a real hate group is armed and training in the USA! SPLCenter dot org
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When terror strikes again, everyone will be blamed except the terrorists…
Said as he surveys the smoking ruins of two entire countries…
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Marilee —- This is not new – it’s been reported before, but few will listen –
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LYNN — A great idea for an interesting thread would be Vicki Iseman and the NYTimes.
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Moth,
Why don’t you email Lynn and give her all your helpful hints on new threads?
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Robert Spencer discusses the Jamaat al-Fuqra camp in his book, Stealth Jihad. I highly recommend the book.
Also Xion, Stephen Emerson is “Max” in Terrorist Hunter by “Anonymous”, since outed as Rita Katz. If you’re interested in the subject, it’s an essential read. It is also enthralling. (Not overstating it here, she had an exciting life.)
I haven’t seen the Human Events article, though I subscribe. (This (Feb 16) issue is about the stimulus.)
I suspect part of the problem, as discussed at lenght in Terrorist Hunter is that CIA and FBI don’t talk to each other.
Marilee, I haven’t heard of any “detention camps” and tend to disbelieve it. Such things are hard to hide. And some people will spill any information they have, such as Barbara Boxer revealing that U.S. drones fly out of Pakistan.
There’s lots of information out there for people who are interested. Bush was interested, and I doubt if Obama cares.
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If memory serves me correctly, wasn’t there an attempt by some extremists to have a training camp in Virginia?
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Read the rest on link above.
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Joe B, I don’t know about a “camp” in Virginia, but Rita Katz spends a lot of time discussing the facility at 555 Grove St., Herndon, Va. It googles.
The one complaint I have about Katz’s book is that it suffers greatly from lack of an index.
Spencer’s books are well documented for those who interested in their own research.
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Does anyone remember that short-lived program “Jericho?” That’s what this reminds me of. It also reminds me of a story my mother told me. In 1938, she and her father were delivering cheese (the family business was making cheese), and they came across a “camp” in the woods patroled by the Nazis, of course. They high-tailed it out of there. My grandfather told her she was an American and should leave the country, that a war was coming, and she did ultimately leave.
So when you see things like what are being mentioned in this post, believe them. This is creepy for a lot of reasons.
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NJL
You are right. Your grandfather was a very wise man to tell your mom to leave, he must have loved her very much.
I am sorry to have hurt your feeling regarding the Nazis on another thread – I didn’t mean to make you feel bad. I have heard ugly stories about people making fun of Germans here in this country during and after WW2. I’m sure your father was a brave man, and served the USA with honor in his military duties.
What we are seeing and hearing now should be taken seriously, it is creepy, but we can’t dismiss it – I had heard of these situations about four years ago – at the time I was reluctant to put much truth to it, today I feel very differently.
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It is common knowledge that Islamofascists have training camps in the USA adn have for decades adn hey raise money from just about ever mosque in the USA too. Members of these camps voted for and gave money to Obama and the left in every election hoping a more naive, weak minded and easily fooled leadership of America can be elected that will be more acceptable of Islamic Law and future Islamics terrorist take over of America. They are ecstatic that one of their own a real Hussein and the dolt and Mamma’s boy, Joe Biden, were elected. It is better than they ever could have prayed for. They claim all of this daily on their many, many web sites. Their take over is very near if you believe their propaganda. Nothing new there.
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Lynn, I wasn’t objecting to the topic of the thread. I think we do need to be aware of what’s going on (or might be going on) in our country. If nothing else, we can become aware of how easily news stories can be skewed, how readily the myths and reality blur. But I don’t see that it helps a situation to ask us to view 2 clips, and then tell you which side we believe is the truth. It’s not asking us to make an informed judgement, so much as inviting us to gossip about what we aren’t sure of. Isn’t it?
Some questions that might be valid:
How do you feel about the possibility that the story might be true?
If it is true, do you feel you as an individual have an obligation to “do” something about the report? What do you think the government should do to find out the truth, and/or to act upon it?
How do we weigh sources to see which we can trust?
What should be our attitude toward all the opinions that circulate around us these days?
In what ways will a Christian worldview make a difference in the way we view such controversial stories?
It seems that on every interactive blog, people pop off their instant biases. The video by the 12 year old pointing out that abortion murders babies, elicited such threats that the comment section had to be shut off. The woman who bore octuplets even received death threats, apparently because it was a crime to expect taxpayer money for more kids. I read one news board where the comments were vitriol and outrage against the crook of a mom, until one sane person came on and pointed out that the babies were innocent of wrong-doing and they would suffer greatly if they grew up thinking they had no right to be born. After that the tone softened and changed and the hate-mongers went away.
In the age in which we live, I think we need to anticipate carefully the way our words will be received. To say that this is a quick answer blog and not a place for news reporting, really doesn’t make sense. Asking us to choose sides about what is the truth, on the basis of one story pro and one con, but without news reporting follow up, seems to me a way to encourage gossip and even ugliness.
How do I, as a Christian, react to stories that may pose a threat to my country’s safety? Yes, it’s a scary scenario if it’s true. But who is going to help me know if it’s true? And how can I keep my perspective about who I am and who Christ is, regardless?
The first-century Christians lived with an ugly side of government and personal repression. But they were living lives in their faith of Christ as the overcomer of all. I know I don’t have the ability in myself to be an overcomer, but I hope that the Word is true, and God is with us all, in all times and places.
I view stories like this as yet another opportunity for a call to prayer — and responsible living. In this, I need some help and encouragement. Everywhere I turn, there’s bad news of “ain’t it awful?”. Sometimes I really don’t know how to keep going!
If WMB is is only structured to abet pop-off remarks, but doesn’t see a need to do investigative reporting first, and doesn’t consider it part of the job description to offer hope or to remind us that there are still reasonable people out there in the midst of the terribleness, and that there’s still a peace of God that passes understanding, do you have a recommendation for a Christian news source that would do this?
soapbox mode off now.
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Marilee, I agree that we should all pray for the situation in our country and the world. I pray against the evil that is rampant in many parts of the world almost every day.
We need to be aware of what’s happening. The two attacks on the World Trade Center, The Cole, tha two embassy attacks, the attacks in Madrid and London were not random attacks by kooks, but well planned attacks of people who are at war with us. As long as we think we’re not at war, we are at a disadvantage. The problem is, none of our leaders have the courage to face the fact, even if they understand it, which I doubt.
Yesterday, I posted a copy of a Presidental Directive to assist in relocating refugees fron Gaza. Some here made light of it. Some of those because Obama did it and he can do no wrong, others because they don’t care. These people elected Hamas to represent them, and they think we’re the Great Satan. There is no circumstance in which it would be good to bring them here.
Now, off my soapbox.
For now
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“Muslims of America has close ties to a violent Pakistani group named Jamaat Al-Fuqra. Both groups are led by the same extremist cleric: Sheikh Mubarak Gilani.”
“Sheikh Gilani has been on U.S. intelligence agencies’ radar for years. He’s currently under investigation for possible ties to al-Qaeda. He also trained jihadists to fight against the Soviets in Afghanistan during the 1980s.”
“Al Fuqra has compounds from coast-to-coast.” There is a 45-acre site in Red House, Virginia.
“Muslims of America serves as a cash cow for Gilani and Jamaat Al-Fuqra. Each member is required to send 30 percent of their income to Gilani. The group even had a treasurer that checked members’ pay stubs.”
“… Sheikh Gilani uses these American dollars to help fund the Taliban and other terrorist groups”
“… the group has a long track record of violent activity on U.S. soil. ” (Reference)
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Not to put too fine a point on it, but if they are here, don’t you think the US intelligence folks are monitoring the camps? And wouldn’t it be easier to watch them in your own backyard with your own intelligence tools?
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“If they are here?” “If they are here?” THEY ARE HERE!
I don’t understand Marilee asking whether we FEEL this is true or not. How we feel has nothing to do with it. Radical Muslims are setting up camps all over America. Saudi Arabia is funding radical Wahhabi mosques in many of our largest cities. Mayor Menino in Boston is helping to fund this with taxpayer dollars.
Please watch the award winning PBS documentary Jihad in America. You can hear what these radicals are saying in their own words.
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Michelle: Not to put too fine a point on it, but if they are here, don’t you think the US intelligence folks are monitoring the camps? And wouldn’t it be easier to watch them in your own backyard with your own intelligence tools?
You really don’t get it, do you. While Bush was President, of course they were monitoring everybody in sight, including your and my phone calls. “HE KEPT US SAFE”. But now that Obama is President, he and his Muslim buddies are going to drop all resistance to domestic terrorism.
It’s a simple syllogism for simple…oh never mind.
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Xion and others.
My point isn’t that this subject should not be discussed. My point is that I disagree with the question Lynn asked: “Which side is the truth?”
That question can only be answered by a serious foray into investigative journalism.
We should not be asked to speculate on an answer to this simplistic question. I listed a number of other questions Lynn could have asked, which would allow us to state our opinions on the matter.
My list of questions did not contain “do we feel this is true or not?” It asked, if it’s true (Lynn hasn’t said it is, remember) — how does that make us feel?
How do I feel about it if it is true, is a valid discussion point. If Lynn wants to establish that she believes it’s true, then I’m free to tell her how I feel. If she’s going to ask us to decide on the basis of 2 clips only (the sources she gave), then we need to find our own sources of documentation first.
How do I feel about it if Muslims are setting up camps all over America? Terrible. I’m very sad that our government is so blind. I’m afraid for the future of our country.
However, I know the Bible predicts just this sort of thing in the end times. As a matter of fact, there have always been terrors in the world.
I can be supportive of government when it appears to me it’s looking out for the best interests of its citizens. I’m bidden by the Bible to pray for the peace of those in authority. But I can never put my trust in the government. My hope must rest in Jesus Christ.
The problem is, everywhere I turn these days, there’s this “boy are you going to get it!” attitude. Every bad news report is shouted to the rooftops. God says to “fear not”, and bids us look to him for our deliverance. But somehow the counter to bad news isn’t even mentioned as a possible news source.
Again, I didn’t oppose the thread — but the question as it was was asked. In my last post, I stated that I no longer knew how to keep going. That’s where I land when I keep seeing these “boy are you going to get it!” topics, but no answers except more and more fear.
Maybe if we prayed more and encouraged each other more it would be more helpful than yelling our defeatism for the world to hear — “boy are we going to get it!”
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Marilee #25 – I essentially agree with you. Though I think Lynn already answered the question. This is a blog and is meant for discussion.
You keep saying “if”. There is no “if”. Please purchase and watch Jihad in America.
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Hmm, isn’t this behavior covered by the Second Amendment? Shooting guns and all?
Really, if Mr. Spencer knows, can find out, we are supposed to believe that the government does not? Think carefully. If they government then does not know, what does that say about the claims of the previous administration to protect the country? Or their use of warrantless surveillance?
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#27 The government could know more than it does, but political correctness keeps it blind and uncoordinated. Maybe that’s good, but it is also dangerous.
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Xion – 23
You are right, they are here – How long will it take for people to WAKE UP?
I was gone for most of the day today – two meetings, the last one was so blatant as to how we as Americans are viewed, I was stunned. It came from someone I would not have suspected would ever make such statements. I am going to post about it in just a short time.
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Victoria, my feelings were not hurt, I just wanted to show a little different perspective. So, don’t worry. My father often said that his time in the army was some of the best, but I’ve often felt that he only told us the funny stories, because once I grew up (and Vietnam), I realized he had suffered from that post traumatic stress syndrome. They just didn’t talk about it.
There was no way my grandfther could have known the extent of what was to happen in 1938. I doubt the idea of the Holocaust crossed his mind, but rather he remembered WWI, which he experienced here in the US, but saw the aftermath when he went back to Germany with my mother and her brother. But he saw enough signs that he realized another war was coming. And we need to be vigilant now. That was my purpose in relating that story.
I don’t know who is watching whom in this country. I would like to think that the intelligence groups are watching, but after the Fort Dix case here in Jersey, I’m not so sure. The jihadis used to go to a shooting range in Pennsylvania, and the owners there never put two and two together. That case was “solved” by an informant. No government agency was watching them until someone ratted them out. We won’t always be that lucky.
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NJL: Leaving aside your implication that every time two or more people of vaguely Levantine visage appear at a shooting range someone should call the FBI, my reaction to the Ft Dix case is that we have bigger things to worry about than a couple of knuckleheads dumb enough to think about trying to take on an entire base of armed soldiers and goofy enough to take their videotape showing mixed shooting range and jihadist video to a 7/11 to be dubbed?
And don’t you think that federal registration of all gun purchases, including long guns might just detect some folks assembling arsenals?
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Yeah, guys who fly planes into buildings are just bumbling idiots goofy enough to try and take on Federal airport security.
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THEY ARE HERE!
Which is the best place for them. No sense in going half way around the world to fight them when we can keep them under our thumb. They’re probably in the old Russian camps and UN black helicopter sites.
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Arcadia: Knuckleheads? Really? So, you agree with their mother that they are nice boys and disagree with the jury which saw all the evidence. If I had a son at Ft. Dix who was relaxed at work thinking he was safe on the base at home and these “knuckleheads” as you call them had accomplished what they planned and my son had been killed, I’m not so sure I’d be as generous as you appear to be. The leftys here in the past have also pooh-poohed the 19 guys who pulled off 9/11, that they got lucky with their little boxcutters.
I guess 3,000 deaths and how many these clowns would have killed at Ft. Dix are acceptable losses to you. I’m with the jury. The knuckleheads should never get lucky again. I hope they rot in jail. I don’t care ow stupid they are. Dead is still dead.
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NJL – 30
YOU WROTE: “But he saw enough signs that he realized another war was coming. And we need to be vigilant now. That was my purpose in relating that story.”
As your grandfather was a wise man. We too as you state must be “vigilant” not sticking our heads in the sand.
I posted an experience I had yesterday over on Whirled Views. I didn’t give all the details, maybe later -
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Arcadia: Knuckleheads? Really? So, you agree with their mother that they are nice boys and disagree with the jury which saw all the evidence. If I had a son at Ft. Dix who was relaxed at work thinking he was safe on the base at home and these “knuckleheads” as you call them had accomplished what they planned and my son had been killed, I’m not so sure I’d be as generous as you appear to be. The leftys here in the past have also pooh-poohed the 19 guys who pulled off 9/11, that they got lucky with their little boxcutters.
Arcadia’s point, of course, is that the plan of taking on a base filled with armed and trained soldiers was stupid to begin with, with no chance of success.
I don’t know what “leftys” you’re referring to with the 9/11 reference, but that scheme was well-planned and carried out. There is a big difference in threat level between the two examples.
I guess 3,000 deaths and how many these clowns would have killed at Ft. Dix are acceptable losses to you.
Again I must ask, where do you get these weird ideas? Especially when you impute them to different people entirely than allegedly made the statements you mentioned? (I.e, some anonymous “lefty” made a remark saying that the 9/11 terrorists just got lucky, therefore Arcadia thinks 3,000 dead is an acceptable loss. That wouldn’t make sense even if you were talking about the same person in both cases, let alone different people.)
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There was a chance of success. They had maps of Ft. Dix, and they had an access point. Perhaps you should the transcript of the trial.
Don’t lie now just because you know I don’t know how to search the old threads! Quite a few leftys here used to mock us here stating that the 19 men who pulled off 9/11 were using boxcutters, were very low tech and not that bright. They were bright enough. Arcadia snarkily mocks me now with “Leaving aside your implication that every time two or more people of vaguely Levantine visage appear at a shooting range someone should call the FBI,” — again, read the transcript.
Heaven forbid that people should be vigilant. I suppose the video store clerk who called the authorities should have concluded that no one would be stupid enough to hand over a tape like that, so how could they be terrorists? Let’s remember that the clowns who pulled off the first WTC returned to get their deposit back on the van they rented, or some such nonsense. People died that day, too.
I deeply resent the defense of known terrorists and how people make excuses for them.
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@Arcadia #31
“…people of vaguely Levantine visage appear at a shooting range…”
You’re avoiding the stated question. They didn’t “appear at a shooting range.” Reportedly, they were being trained in the use of “rocket launchers, mortars, and explosives, as well as training in kidnapping, the murder of hostages, sabotage, and subversive operations.”
A little different than most shooting ranges I know of…
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