Self-test for the American “leftist”
Are you tired of living in this capitalist hell? Do you believe in market failures? Did you vote for change? Do you expect your charismatic new leader to fix it all for you? Are you searching the net for a “conservative” blog where you can call someone a “pig”? Or at least a “pumpkin”? Do you like soul searching? Grab your organic fair-trade decaf latte and take the test below.
Find out on your own the facts and analyze the available figures for the countries below to answer the question: Where would you rather live as a “commoner”?
- a) Miami or b) Havana
- a) South Korea or b) North Korea
- a) Taipei or b) Beijing
- a) Hong Kong of “benevolent neglect” or b) China of the Great Leap Forward
- a) Chile or b) Venezuela
- a) Botswana or b) Zimbabwe
- a) West Germany of 1989 or b) East Germany of 1989
- a) Ireland after liberalization or b) pre-liberalized Ireland
- a) Hungary after Milton Friedman’s visit or b) Hungary after the Soviet tanks’ visit
- a) flat-tax Bulgaria or b) socialist-welfare Bulgaria
If your answers were mostly “b,” you may appeal to Castro for an opportunity to switch places with any ungrateful inhabitant of his tropical paradise. Hopefully there’s at least one misinformed Cuban who will give up his guaranteed job and free healthcare to be enslaved by the cruel market forces of the U.S. of A. Sucker, serves him right for betraying Che’s dream.
If, however, you find yourself in the embarrassing position of selecting five or more “a” answers, don’t call your shrink. Relax. You are not schizophrenic. There is a simple explanation. It’s rational self-interest, an extension of your biological instincts for self-preservation and avoiding pain. You may find pleasure in bashing capitalism but only after you have filled up on turkey and gravy provided by the free market.
You don’t have to be consistent to be a working-class hero. Karl Marx found a safe haven in England, the bastion of unbridled 19th-century profiteering. Economic freedom gave him the political freedom to criticize capitalism. To write Das Kapital, the bible of the oppressed proletarians, Marx used the “surplus” that Engels “expropriated” from a group of wage-laborers. Surely a great end justifies some not-so-great means. So don’t be too hard on yourself; the comrades still like you. Sweet dreams.














Click to Print
Include Comments











back to top51 Comments to “Self-test for the American “leftist””
Some years back as a lark I requested material from a group called the “Veceremos Brigade”. The VBs are Americans who travel (illegally I spoze) down to Cuba ea year where they assist with home building and sugar harvesting.
From their attitude toward the regime one senses that its 1961 and Cuba has yet to become the torture chamber so well-documented by Armando Valladares and others. They agitate for lifting the JFK trade embargo. Concerns about Cuban human rights violations? Not on their radar screen.
Anywho.. I called and made inquiry about joining the next group heading down. “I’m a vegetarian so I was wondering if it would be too much to ask for meatless meals” The VB staffer replied that most Cubans have meat so infrequently that arranging a meat-free meal should present no difficulty.
I guess the Cuban economy is a success since Marx wrote about the crisis of over-production. I don’t think Cuba produces too much of anything, to be honest.
Report comment to moderator
Again, I have to ask, is this really the best World Mag can do?
Look Tokarev, American “leftists” love America every bit as much as conservatives. Liberals and conservatives alike see things they would like to change about the country (try the same “self-test” with “rightists” about whether they’d rather live in what they see as the moral cesspool of America or various other places).
Really, this is just idiotic.
Report comment to moderator
Guess Stevie couldn’t keep his finger off that tempting b button. All is not lost Stevie. Soon you won’t have to travel anywhere, or expect someone else to pay fot it, to be a real card carrying socialist held in high rregard by your wourlwide cabal and you be as happy as any red alive, not that you are not already of course. When you grow up, you can be a Marxist like the messiah and raise your own taxes, so you can pay some
Report comment to moderator
It’s this type of lameness that reminds me there are better ways to spend time and attention.
Report comment to moderator
Llama
Wonderstump@hotmail.com
Report comment to moderator
Self-test for Democrats:
Do you agree with your leaders or not?
Nancy Pelosi, Speaker of the House, said in 2005: “While President Bush continues to trumpet his so-called ‘economic achievements,’ the Bush Administration confirmed today that the budget deficit for 2006 will be one of the largest in our nation’s history. President Bush’s failed economic policies have resulted in budgets that are drastically out of balance and skyrocketing debt. Budget deficits translate into higher interest rates, which means that mortgages cost more, credit-card debt grows, and student loans cost more. ? Democrats know how to restore fiscal discipline with tough policies of pay-as-you-go budgeting, no new deficit spending…”
Clear throats! Which Nancy Pelosi do Dems believe in, Pelosi 2005 or Pelosi 2009?
Paul Krugman, in the NY Times in 2003, “As a drunk is to alcohol, the Bush administration is to budget deficits.”
Thomas Friedman more recently said, “Under George W. Bush, America has foisted onto future generations a huge financial burden to finance our current tax cuts, wars and now bailouts.”
If these people were right about Bush, how much more should they be condemning Obama for the same reason?
Self-test question: Is it evil for Republicans to take our nation into serious debt but heroic and virtuous for Democrats to do the SAME thing?
Test result: We see dishonesty and self-congratulation going hand in hand in today’s Democrats.
Report comment to moderator
How about menu item choice #11.
a) The America where a white man could live in a 3-story house four blocks from the beach and walk to the train to his 9 to 5 job, send all of his kids to private colleges, and pay for his wife to take grad courses in French literature and attend the Thursday afternoon symphony.
b) Post-Reagan America, where none of that man’s grandkids have access to such a lifestyle.
Report comment to moderator
I noticed no countries in Western Europe or Scandinavia were on this list. Curious.
Report comment to moderator
False choices, they are.
Report comment to moderator
Here’s some choices
a) Vermont or b) Mississippi
a) Minnesota or b) Louisiana
a) Connecticut or b) Arkansas
a) San Francisco or b) Houston
Report comment to moderator
Scroop, Houston’s gays are every bit as vociferous as their SF brethren.
Report comment to moderator
SteveG, I have to ask, is that really the best YOU can do? Ad-hominem attacks and name-calling?
Why don’t you actually point out where Alex is wrong, and demonstrate why the listed states, which embrace your principles, are actually BETTER places to live.
Report comment to moderator
I don’t think most Democrats in the United States are communists. I am sure a number of them fought against communists in Vietnam. I don’t even think most of them are socialists, in the sense that they want state ownership of the marketplace. Both Republicans and Democrats want some degree of government regulation over the marketplace (isn’t there something about interstate commerce in the Constitution?). The debate is over to what degree.
I don’t know all the governments Tokarev lists, but I know many of his comparisons are with communist countries. Is he setting up a straw man (USA Democrats = communists), so he can proceed to knock it down?
Report comment to moderator
#10–
Some of the nicest people in the world are in Mississippi. I spent a summer there and was overwhelmed by the openness, kindness and hospitality of the people, both black and white! Not so sure about Vermont, but I’m sure it has its good points too.
The collective integrity of the people of Louisiana stands up pretty well compared to a state that even comes close to electing a viciously vulgar, mysogyistic and disrespectful man like Al Franken as senator. Remember the Paul Welsstone memorial service? Mindless leftist anger and hatred is rather rampant in Minnesota (my current home). But it does have some merits. One thing is certain: Minnesotans tend to look down upon Louisianans more than Loisianans look down on Minnesotans.
I lived in Connecticut too and have friends in Arkansas. I think Connecticut is probably (by and large) more segregated, corrupt, greedy and closed-minded than Arkansas any day of the week. Just generalizing though. But again, it is certain that Connectutters tend to look down upon Arkansans more than Arkansans look down on Connecticutters.
Report comment to moderator
Joel Mark: If these people were right about Bush, how much more should they be condemning Obama for the same reason?
Have you heard of this new thing they have now called time?
Pelosi’s statement was true in 2005. In 2009, things have changed drastically.
Although I have noticed this is a favorite tactic … find a statement somebody said long ago and quote it as if it were still current, making no notice of the change in situation since then.
We saw this a lot in the Iraq war argument, when people were insisting that “we KNOW Saddam has chemical weapons because he used them on Kurds,” utterly ignoring the fact that between the time Saddam used them and the time we were preparing to invade, there had been the first Gulf war and more than a decade of steep economic sanctions.
Report comment to moderator
I also found Tokarev’s tone taunting and condescending. Maybe he was being playful instead?
Report comment to moderator
John M.: Why don’t you actually point out where Alex is wrong, and demonstrate why the listed states, which embrace your principles, are actually BETTER places to live.
That is precisely why I said it is idiotic. Those states DON’T embrace my principles, or the principles of any Democrat. Tokarev is engaging in what amounts to latter-day red-baiting, insinuating that if you voted Democratic, you might as well be a dirty commie.
It’s a low-class smear and should be beneath any reputable commentator’s dignity.
Report comment to moderator
Indeed, I was amazed at how segregated Connecticut was. The Italian Catholics, Jews, Irish Catholics, African-Americans (relegated only to certain parts of the cities), rich liberal Yalies, Puerto Ricans, blue-blood liberals and many such groups rarely mixed with each other (or other groups) in real life.
Just generalizing from personal experience and observation though.
I have lived in the South in the 80s and voluntary segregation existed there too, but seemingly not as deeply rooted or specific in nature. At least the South seems to be more aware of their segregated ways and is working on it.
Report comment to moderator
I have a hard time choosing between asinine and juvenile, there’s so much about the original post that could fit either one. Decisions, decisions. How ever will I choose? Maybe best to chose to dwell elsewhere.
Report comment to moderator
SteveG, “In 2009, things have changed drastically.”
Huh? Democrat hypocrisy has obviously not changed though, except that it is far more entrenched in them now as they close their self-critical eyes to it.
Pelosi’s outrage over Bush is somehow miraculously transformed into worship for Obama in 2009, even though Obama is doing more of the very same things that Bush did which Pelosi was condemning in 2005.
Report comment to moderator
Pelosi’s outrage over Bush is somehow miraculously transformed into worship for Obama in 2009, even though Obama is doing more of the very same things that Bush did which Pelosi was condemning in 2005.
Was our stock market collapsing in 2005? Housing prices tumbling? Major financial institutions and businesses facing bankrupticy?
No, they were not.
Obama has decided that deficit spending is necessary to attack the economic crisis. I understand you do not agree with that, but there is a justification for deficit spending that did not exist in 2005.
I understand you hate Obama and will never say anything positive about him, even if he sends you ice cream, but surely you understand that when circumstances change radically, a judgment about the propriety of something that was true what it was spoken may be subject to necessary revision.
Report comment to moderator
I’ve heard about how segregated Conn can be.
I still think the south has more black mayors and black police chiefs than any other part of the country. That could either be a testiment to improved conditions and lessened race-conscious politics, or it may merely mean that the whites place less importance in who controls those jobs.
Report comment to moderator
SteveG,
So are you saying that Democrats do NOT advocate “from each according to his ability, to each according to his need”? That is the central tenet of each of the goverments listed?
Report comment to moderator
As I read the debate about Pelosi’s comments, it reminds me of this article from the Wa Post this weekend
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/07/AR2009030702216.html
Although it focuses on Democrats, it includes both parties. This sours my view of politicians of any stripe. Basically we earmark billions for military equipment that the military itself says is not needed, in order to help a particular congressman or senator get re-elected in his own district or state. Even during this financial crisis and two wars. That will make your blood boil / make you depressed / make you put your hope in God, etc.
Report comment to moderator
John M. – Didn’t we learn that Tom Daschle earned some cool millions for unidentified consulting work since his time away from the Senate? Hasn’t B. Clinton made millions in speeches? Either they think they need a whole lot, or they don’t agree with that “ability / need” principle you mentioned.
Report comment to moderator
John M. — and I know I’m being a bit silly about Daschle and Clinton. You’re probably referring to taxation policies, or maybe other issues. Yeah, I think the Democrats are generally for more wealth redistribution than Republicans, and more of that distribution occuring through the government. But I don’t think it goes as far as that “ability / need” creed would mean in the context of communist thinking. Even Republicans favor wealthy people paying more taxes than less wealthy people — which could be interpreted as the “ability / need” principle to a certain degree.
Report comment to moderator
Oh man — the last three posts were by me. When see that by others, I usually think they are trying to say too much.
Report comment to moderator
John M. So are you saying that Democrats do NOT advocate “from each according to his ability, to each according to his need”? That is the central tenet of each of the goverments listed?
I’m really not interested in debating something as poorly-reasoned as “American liberalism is just the same as communism.”
Short answer: No.
Report comment to moderator
People everywhere are nice as pie and no good. I don’t believe that’s contested. Minnesota and Louisiana have little in common except big river. The distinctions are dramatic — income, education, health, crime, incarceration, public corruption, pollution, dependence on federal help.
Report comment to moderator
#21 SteveG,
You said, ‘Was our stock market collapsing in 2005? Housing prices tumbling? Major financial institutions and businesses facing bankruptcy?
No, they were not.’
For once you weren’t lying. The housing and mortgage collapse, the stock market crash, the economy’s total collapse, the destruction of half of the retirement funds of average Americans, unemployment doubling from 4% to 8%, destruction of teh financial and insurance institutions of this country, doubling the national debt through huge deficit spending, etc etc etc all happened after the socialists were elected to take control of congress and this country’s economy in November 2006. Just the thought of socialists and Marxists taking over a capitalist country sent the entire world into and economic abyss only lefties can create. No it wasn’t coincidence and no it wasn’t Bush’s fault. They were the cause.
Pelosi and Reid, at least 5 times a day and had the MSM tell the world for 8 years how bad, bad bad, ‘the great economy then’ was and how bad the republican deficits were, even tough the last one for the right was only $162 billion and the first one for the left was a record shattering one of $465 billion only to have this one quadrupled in less than a year.
Now that you stopped lying it is nice to talk with you. Keep it up
Report comment to moderator
Where would rather live as a commoner
a)Sweden b)Hong Kong
a)Australia b) Mauritius
a) Netherlands b)Singapore
a)Sweden b)Bahrain
a)France b)Chile
I would think this is a more accurate series of choices between social democracy and free market capitalism (a) represents the top countries in the Human Development Index a UN developed list designed to highlight human well being (b) represents some of the top countries listed as economically free by the Heritage Foundation. Countries listed near the top in both (Canada, Ireland) were not used.
Report comment to moderator
Well done, HRW
Report comment to moderator
Llama: How come you’re not banned yet? Every post of yours I read (which admittedly is only about one out of ten) is nothing but various combinations of namecalling, personal attack and generally gibbering about “Marxists” like a mental patient.
Please just ignore me. I have no interest in talking to you.
Report comment to moderator
#33 Steve G
“Every post of yours I read (which admittedly is only about one out of ten) is nothing but various combinations of namecalling, personal attack and generally gibbering about “Marxists” like a mental patient.”
Llama is way easier to understand than Musing…
Llama lost friends to socialists, Marxists and Communists. They were killed by them.
About the only things you guys kill can’t fight back. And yes, you and yours constantly advocate killing. You say it is not human, but what is it then?
Report comment to moderator
Another WMB enthusiast for false comparisons …
Report comment to moderator
Bob: So if Llama lost friends in wars (which is my best guess of what you’re referring to), I should sit back and indulge his branding every American liberal with those words?
No way. That makes his use of those terms for us even more objectionable.
Report comment to moderator
Miami vs. Havana is somewhat of a straw man. How about Miami vs. Geneva? Miami vs. Stockholm?
Obama enthusiasts by and large do not support authoritarian communism like what exists in Cuba, North Korea or China. They support democratic socialism, like what you see in Europe.
This is anecdotal, but I can say that the family I stayed with in Germany in 1991, whose income earners were two high school teachers, was better off than a family with two high school teachers would be in the United States.
Report comment to moderator
Spinoza and Steve G
I have also thought that Llama was way over the top when calling people names, but then I put some things together.
I dated a girl whose grandparents had some standing in Russia. They owned a typewriter shop. It wasn’t long after the Communists took over that they walked out of Russia. She had a great Aunt there that she had a picture of. She was standing in a doorway but couldn’t come out- she didn’t have a coat in the Russian winter.
I talked with a Polish woman about WWII. The Nazis came to her house, took her father out in the street and shot him dead. The Russians came to her house and took her brother away. She never heard from him again.
My wife taught a brother and sister whose parents got out of Cuba after Castro took over. Their father had spent a couple of years in a Cuban prison because he stole a loaf of bread. His family was hungry.
I talked to a man who was a Contra. Under Somoza he was poor, but when he raised a pig he got to eat the pig. Under the Sandinistas when he raised a pig they took the pig and gave him a leg.
My brother-in-law was born in Germany. His parents were born in Russia. When the German Army was being pushed back by the Russian Army, the women walked ahead of the Germans and got out of Russia. His father had joined the German Army to fight against his own country, Russia.
Llama spent two tours as a Marine in Viet Nam. I am sure he lost friends there, fighting against Communists.
How many people have you talked with who had anything to do with a Communist country? How many people do you know who have been affected by Communism?
I do not look forward to living under Communism, Marxism, or Socialism. I am afraid that I agree with Llama, I just don’t say it.
Llama is right about Communists, Marxists, socialists and liberals; they are whack jobs. So, if the shoe fits, wear it!
Report comment to moderator
. . . they are whack jobs. So, if the shoe fits, wear it!
Et tu, BOB?
Yes, some of us are whack jobs. As St. Augustine said, angels and demons walk the earth, and sometimes they occupy the same person. We are wise to reserve our conclusions, however. One of the classic symptoms of a whack job is quickness to name vast numbers of others as whack jobs.
Regarding first-hand experience with communists, I have friends who grew up and were educated in East Germany. They moved West after university and prosper in a closely held technology company in which they own an interest. Despite their experiences, they are socialists. They’re salt of the earth.
Report comment to moderator
#21, SteveG wrote: “Was our stock market collapsing in 2005? Housing prices tumbling? Major financial institutions and businesses facing bankrupticy?”
This is at best an irrelevant response to the point I made about Nancy Pelosi’s partisan hypocrisy. Pelosi (like many Republicans, mind you) was critical of Bush adding to the national debt even though Bush did not do it nearly as badly as Obama has and is. Cherry-picking a few economic rating points or conditions to justify Obama’s fiscal irresponibility only adds to my point about SteveG missing Pelosi’s partisan hypocrisy. Pelosi cannot bring herself to criticize Obama for doing more of the very same thing Bush did that made her so angry. The ramifications for adding to the national debt are negative whether Bush or Obama does it and conservatives are the only ones who have been able to criticize both presidents for doing it.
Bus also decided that deficit spending was necessary to attack the terrorist crisis and Obama did so for a perceived economic crisis. The truth is that Bush should have vetoed many more of the domestic spending bills that came to him. Pelosi was right to criticize him. But Obama is doing the same thing, far more irresponsibly, and Pelosi cannot criticize him.
No justification ever existed for fiscal irresponsibility, in 2005 or in 2009. Such a claim is just more partisan political posturing. Just be honest, like conservatives, and be able to criticize a president beyond partisan loyalties.
And it’s a lie, SteveG for you to accuse me of hating Obama. In accusing me of that, you are a liar.
Report comment to moderator
#38 Still don’t get it, do you BB – all the ranting about genuine communist totalitarian atrocity is less relevant to a discussion of American political liberals than are the atrocities of Torquemada to an debate on the evils of Christianity as espoused on World Mag Blog.
Notice I said LESS relevant …
You tic off communist atrocities, and then group them with “liberals” – this is either ignorant or dishonest or both.
Report comment to moderator
And it’s a lie, SteveG for you to accuse me of hating Obama. In accusing me of that, you are a liar.
Still defending your honor in gauntlet-down-throwing and I-know-you-are-but-what-am-I histrionics, eh JM?
Fuhgettabout it – it has become a sad joke.
Report comment to moderator
I see no joke of any sort in your comments, Spinoza, sad or not.
Report comment to moderator
Bob,
I can sting together some anecdotal comments from people who preferred communism as opposed to the free market capitalism they saw in 1991. Poles, Russians, Ukrainians etc. Note the Communist Party in Poland is still the largest political party, membership total and vote total.
To all other conservatives;
Take my little quiz on #31 tell me which you prefer (a) or (b). My choices are more valid than the original post as my countries are all in the present — one based on a list designed to measure social statistics and the other list designed to measure adherence to free market ideas. If you like the free market as you profess I’m sure you will pick (b) right?
Report comment to moderator
Bob: Spinoza mostly said in #41 what I have to say. American liberals are NOT socialists or communists, and our country is no danger of becoming anything like those you name. For Llama — and now you — to imply that we are is offensive and profoundly ignorant. (Or else, profoundly dishonest if if you actually know better. Either way, there’s nothing to respect in it.)
It’s also dangerous. You are not reasonable enough to say that liberals are patriotic Americans with whom you have some significant disagreements on political philosophies. You paint us instead as actual enemies of America.
It’s really pathetic and despicable.
Report comment to moderator
Joel Mark: Since you keep missing the point, I’m going to try only one more time:
You have to take any statement in the context of the time and circumstances in which it was made. If the circumstances change drastically, something that was bad a few years ago may be necessary now.
If you don’t get it, then I will agree to disagree.
Report comment to moderator
Joel Mark:
And it’s a lie, SteveG for you to accuse me of hating Obama. In accusing me of that, you are a liar.
You mean your criticism is motivated by genuine disagreement with the policy and not personal dislike of the man? And that in suggesting otherwise, I’m unfairly dismissing your sincere criticism?
Doesn’t feel good to be on the receiving end of that, does it?
Report comment to moderator
Since so few people ever post an original comment, I skimmed through the comments and may have missed one. Apparently, no one has mentioned my suggestion that the United States divide into two countries, one conservative and one liberal.
Apparently conservatives never learned how to share as small chilren. “Mine! Mine! All mine!” They scream
I can imagine llama at three years old, going to work on all the cake and ice cream at a birthday party, and when told to share, going into a rant about leftists and socialists and [you know the drill].
So when asked to share the country, the conservatives do not consider my perfectly reasonable suggestion of putting all the liberals into Northern New Jersey and Michigan, but say, “Get out! Now! All ours!”
Report comment to moderator
I thought we already did that with California…aren’t they another country now???
Report comment to moderator
Oh, good. I needed an “in the wild example” of the false dichotomy fallacy for an upcoming quiz. And I think it’s obvious enough that my 8th graders will get it.
Report comment to moderator
I know this thread is done but I was reminded of the false dilemma posed by Mr. Tokarev when reading back issues of Maclean’s
a) flat-tax Bulgaria or b) socialist-welfare Bulgaria
http://blog.macleans.ca/2009/02/25/somethng-rotten-in-bulgaria/
Of course you could claim that choice (b) limits human rights but according to the above story and the following human rights and free enterprise have been limited to the gangster-style capitalism. Flat taxes are useless when contract enforcement is negligible. Without contracts, capitalism ceases.
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Features/2008/02/04/4825319-sun.html
Finally you could claim that daily life has improved but it appears people are voting with their feet.
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2287183,00.html
Report comment to moderator
back to topJoin The Conversation
You need to be a registered user of WORLDonTheWeb.com to "join the conversation."
If you are not a member yet, what are you waiting for? Register / Login Now!