Comments on: Why not physician-assisted death? http://online.worldmag.com/2009/04/28/why-not-physician-assisted-death/ A forum for discussion of news that arises at the intersection of Christianity and culture. Thu, 18 Mar 2010 07:32:03 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Allen Wrench http://online.worldmag.com/2009/04/28/why-not-physician-assisted-death/comment-page-1/#comment-420006 Allen Wrench Wed, 29 Apr 2009 20:54:21 +0000 http://online.worldmag.com/?p=19452#comment-420006 DEET, No. 18: Joseph Bayly's life is of such trauma that it's hard to imagine . . . and yet his faith carried him through. A Google search for his autobiography tells us something about what he endured. Rather than try to tell it myself, here's an excerpt from the search: <i>Joseph Bayly and his wife lost three of their children – one at eighteen days (after surgery); another at five years (leukemia); a third at eighteen years (sledding accident plus hemophilia). Each time the wave of grief pounded their shore – tears flowed. Tears are a universal language. One need not understand words to comprehend their meaning. They communicate far more deeply than verbalization ever could. And it is a language that everyone speaks, sometime, somewhere. The pain of illness, disease, war, rejection, desertion, financial reversal, death, and more, leaves a person suffering, stunned, questioning “Why? Why me? Why now? Why this?” It leaves them drowning in a sea of perplexity. More than the previous twenty-four lessons, this topic strikes at the core of our emotions, at the center of our heart. Pain arrests our attention. It brings us to a halt and forces us to reevaluate, to reconsider, and often to revise our priorities. We don’t need stale answers and pious platitudes; we need God. This lesson just skims the surface; it gives us a little Biblical perspective. All believers will pass through various trials. Some trials come from Satan, some from other people, some from our own doing, some from life in general, and some from the Lord. Regardless of the origin, God can and does use suffering to accomplish His will in us.</i> DEET, No. 18: Joseph Bayly’s life is of such trauma that it’s hard to imagine . . . and yet his faith carried him through. A Google search for his autobiography tells us something about what he endured. Rather than try to tell it myself, here’s an excerpt from the search:

Joseph Bayly and his wife lost three of their children – one at eighteen days (after surgery); another at five years (leukemia); a third at eighteen years (sledding accident plus hemophilia). Each time the wave of grief pounded their shore – tears flowed. Tears are a universal language. One need not understand words to comprehend their meaning. They communicate far more deeply than verbalization ever could. And it is a language that everyone speaks, sometime, somewhere. The pain of illness, disease, war, rejection, desertion, financial reversal, death, and more, leaves a person suffering, stunned, questioning “Why? Why me? Why now? Why this?” It leaves them drowning in a sea of perplexity. More than the previous twenty-four lessons, this topic strikes at the core of our emotions, at the center of our heart. Pain arrests our attention. It brings us to a halt and forces us to reevaluate, to reconsider, and often to revise our priorities. We don’t need stale answers and pious platitudes; we need God. This lesson just skims the surface; it gives us a little Biblical perspective. All believers will pass through various trials. Some trials come from Satan, some from other people, some from our own doing, some from life in general, and some from the Lord. Regardless of the origin, God can and does use suffering to accomplish His will in us.

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]]> By: Kyle A http://online.worldmag.com/2009/04/28/why-not-physician-assisted-death/comment-page-1/#comment-419831 Kyle A Wed, 29 Apr 2009 05:22:15 +0000 http://online.worldmag.com/?p=19452#comment-419831 We must always, always distinguish between giving palliative care that might secondarily speed up the death process and poisoining a person who is months or years away from dying because that person is no longer convenient or because that person is suffering from depression or anxiety. My sister died exactly one year ago. In her last few days she was given morphine to keep her comfortable. Cancer had completely taken over her brain and spinal cord. She had already had several strokes and was clearly in her last few days of life. I expect that the medicine hastened her death by a day or two, and I don't feel at all guilty about it, since our purpose was not to kill her but to ease her suffering during her last few days. Oh, and we her family carried out her instructions to a T, thanks to the excellent hospice workers and a cooperative hospital staff. She did not want life support nor--under carefully defined conditions--to be resuscitated. She also consented to radical pain management only in her last two months. We must always, always distinguish between giving palliative care that might secondarily speed up the death process and poisoining a person who is months or years away from dying because that person is no longer convenient or because that person is suffering from depression or anxiety.

My sister died exactly one year ago. In her last few days she was given morphine to keep her comfortable. Cancer had completely taken over her brain and spinal cord. She had already had several strokes and was clearly in her last few days of life. I expect that the medicine hastened her death by a day or two, and I don’t feel at all guilty about it, since our purpose was not to kill her but to ease her suffering during her last few days.

Oh, and we her family carried out her instructions to a T, thanks to the excellent hospice workers and a cooperative hospital staff. She did not want life support nor–under carefully defined conditions–to be resuscitated. She also consented to radical pain management only in her last two months.

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]]> By: klasko http://online.worldmag.com/2009/04/28/why-not-physician-assisted-death/comment-page-1/#comment-419817 klasko Wed, 29 Apr 2009 03:45:38 +0000 http://online.worldmag.com/?p=19452#comment-419817 Sorry Deet, but if it's any consolation, it's definitely worth the read. Sorry Deet, but if it’s any consolation, it’s definitely worth the read.

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]]> By: Deet http://online.worldmag.com/2009/04/28/why-not-physician-assisted-death/comment-page-1/#comment-419749 Deet Wed, 29 Apr 2009 00:59:38 +0000 http://online.worldmag.com/?p=19452#comment-419749 ALLEN WRENCH, I looked up "Winter Flight" on Amazon. Old used copies are available as well as a 25th anniversary edition put out in 2006. Sounds interesting. And Joseph Bayly himself sounds like an interesting read (Psalms of My Life and Voice In The Wilderness) from the reviews. I'm a hopeless bibliophile and I've been trying not to buy any books until I read more of what I already have, but you and KLASKO aren't making it easy! ALLEN WRENCH, I looked up “Winter Flight” on Amazon. Old used copies are available as well as a 25th anniversary edition put out in 2006. Sounds interesting.

And Joseph Bayly himself sounds like an interesting read (Psalms of My Life and Voice In The Wilderness) from the reviews. I’m a hopeless bibliophile and I’ve been trying not to buy any books until I read more of what I already have, but you and KLASKO aren’t making it easy!

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]]> By: fisherman http://online.worldmag.com/2009/04/28/why-not-physician-assisted-death/comment-page-1/#comment-419747 fisherman Wed, 29 Apr 2009 00:55:24 +0000 http://online.worldmag.com/?p=19452#comment-419747 Certainly we have passed along a variety of things to following generations. But I don't see where we have become more loving, joyful, peaceful, patient, kind, good, faithful, gentle, self-controlled or the like. Granted, individuals change and exhibit those character qualities. But as a species I see no progress. Do Americans exhibit more of these traits than we used to? Certainly we have passed along a variety of things to following generations. But I don’t see where we have become more loving, joyful, peaceful, patient, kind, good, faithful, gentle, self-controlled or the like. Granted, individuals change and exhibit those character qualities. But as a species I see no progress. Do Americans exhibit more of these traits than we used to?

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]]> By: kwatson http://online.worldmag.com/2009/04/28/why-not-physician-assisted-death/comment-page-1/#comment-419741 kwatson Wed, 29 Apr 2009 00:36:10 +0000 http://online.worldmag.com/?p=19452#comment-419741 I can certainlly imagine situations where I would like to be in control of the timing of my own death, such as debilitating terminal cancer. As it stands now, I can do little more than refuse treatment. This would increase the amount of needless suffering that I would be forced to endure with a decision to stop treatment. I would like to be able to make that decision for myself. not have my options limited by people who believe in miracles. Fisherman, I believe we can and have progressed. We pass along more than our genetic predispositions; we pass on our culture, religion, laws, knowledge, and institutions. These have had a huge progressive effect on mankind. I can certainlly imagine situations where I would like to be in control of the timing of my own death, such as debilitating terminal cancer. As it stands now, I can do little more than refuse treatment. This would increase the amount of needless suffering that I would be forced to endure with a decision to stop treatment. I would like to be able to make that decision for myself. not have my options limited by people who believe in miracles.

Fisherman,

I believe we can and have progressed. We pass along more than our genetic predispositions; we pass on our culture, religion, laws, knowledge, and institutions. These have had a huge progressive effect on mankind.

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]]> By: Provost http://online.worldmag.com/2009/04/28/why-not-physician-assisted-death/comment-page-1/#comment-419705 Provost Tue, 28 Apr 2009 23:24:54 +0000 http://online.worldmag.com/?p=19452#comment-419705 As is ever more apparent, evolutionary morality is no morality at all. So then all actions are merely matters of preference tempered by what one can get away with. As is ever more apparent, evolutionary morality is no morality at all. So then all actions are merely matters of preference tempered by what one can get away with.

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]]> By: fisherman http://online.worldmag.com/2009/04/28/why-not-physician-assisted-death/comment-page-1/#comment-419677 fisherman Tue, 28 Apr 2009 22:48:50 +0000 http://online.worldmag.com/?p=19452#comment-419677 I found most interesting the words "Manthous finds hope that humanity can continue progressing and find PAS/euthanasia as acceptable in some cases. He thinks that the solution may be found in changing some of the words, even quoting Noam Chomsky as support for the idea that these issues merely come down to language and verbal games." Two thoughts... 1. From my perspective the only progress humanity has made is technological. Our basic nature doesn't seem to have changed one tiny bit. To even hope that we can progress (I'm assuming that means become better in character) is naive at best. 2. There is a lot of word changing going on in our culture that seems to be intended to deceive rather than instruct into acceptance. I found most interesting the words
“Manthous finds hope that humanity can continue progressing and find PAS/euthanasia as acceptable in some cases. He thinks that the solution may be found in changing some of the words, even quoting Noam Chomsky as support for the idea that these issues merely come down to language and verbal games.”

Two thoughts…
1. From my perspective the only progress humanity has made is technological. Our basic nature doesn’t seem to have changed one tiny bit. To even hope that we can progress (I’m assuming that means become better in character) is naive at best.

2. There is a lot of word changing going on in our culture that seems to be intended to deceive rather than instruct into acceptance.

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]]> By: Allen Wrench http://online.worldmag.com/2009/04/28/why-not-physician-assisted-death/comment-page-1/#comment-419668 Allen Wrench Tue, 28 Apr 2009 22:37:36 +0000 http://online.worldmag.com/?p=19452#comment-419668 DEET, you will find the same subject, that of imposing involuntary euthanasia or suicide, in a fine little book by Joseph Bayly, <i>Winterflight</i>, if it's still available. DEET, you will find the same subject, that of imposing involuntary euthanasia or suicide, in a fine little book by Joseph Bayly, Winterflight, if it’s still available.

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]]> By: Deet http://online.worldmag.com/2009/04/28/why-not-physician-assisted-death/comment-page-1/#comment-419653 Deet Tue, 28 Apr 2009 21:37:10 +0000 http://online.worldmag.com/?p=19452#comment-419653 KLASKO, thanks for the book recommendation. Some years ago I read Joni Eareckson Tada's book "When Is It Right To Die?". Her personal experience really gave her a unique perspective on the subject. And for those who like fiction,though I've never read it, there's a book titled "Duty To Die" by Janice Thompson (2001) that is a "what if" story about a time in America when Congress has enacted a "duty to die" law. Creepy. KLASKO, thanks for the book recommendation. Some years ago I read Joni Eareckson Tada’s book “When Is It Right To Die?”. Her personal experience really gave her a unique perspective on the subject.

And for those who like fiction,though I’ve never read it, there’s a book titled “Duty To Die” by Janice Thompson (2001) that is a “what if” story about a time in America when Congress has enacted a “duty to die” law. Creepy.

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