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Tell your wife everything?
Should wives and husbands tell each other everything? I am inclined to say no. Here’s why: Suppose John and Sam have an accountability relationship with each other. John decides, based on the principle of “truth with his wife no matter what,” breaches confidence and tells his wife about Sam’s struggles without Sam’s knowledge. John feels justified in telling his wife about Sam’s sins and struggles because their marriage is built on honesty.
One day Sam noticed that John’s wife began acting weird around him but he didn’t know why. At first, he simply chalked it up to the fact that she might not like him. A few months later, however, it all made sense when John finally told Sam, “Hey, I told my wife all that stuff you told me a few months ago.”
I wish this were a hypothetical situation, but it recently happened to someone I know. For many guys this kind of story puts men in a position where they may always need to ask accountability friends a series of questions: “Are you going to tell your wife what I just you, and if so, what are you going to tell her?” Some guys, it seems, have no filter even with their wives.
I learned that some wives actually badger their husbands until the guy folds saying, “Well, I am not supposed to tell anyone, but. . . .” It seems that there can be a healthy level of withholding information between husbands and wives that does not violate vows of honesty. Does she need to know everything? Does she have a right to know everything about your friends? Should she even ask to know everything? The answers to all these questions are “no,” right?
Sam and hopefully his other friends know that John is the type of guy who cannot be trusted. If you confess something to him, expect him to go home and tell his wife. With John, then, be prepared for the possibility that she too will say to someone else, “I’m not supposed to tell anyone, but. . . .” This situation helps me understand better why most guys do not have friends with whom they can be completely honest, vulnerable, and accountable. This may also explain why some guys are willing to pay a professional friend $120 per hour to listen to them because they do not know any men whom they can trust.
In the end, your friend telling his wife things you confess to him may be part of the risk of being vulnerable, because your friend may have no information boundaries, or his wife will badger him until what you thought was confidential is on a PowerPoint presentation. Perhaps it is good at least for men to ask each other about boundaries with wives before deciding if trust can be assumed. Otherwise you may be setting yourselves up for pain and conflict down the road.
back to top60 Comments to “Tell your wife everything?”
My wife doesn’t pass things on. Mum is the word.
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My husband does not ordinarily pass on to me things told him in confidence, but when he was pastoring a church there were times he would tell me something because it really bothered him and I was the only person he could talk to, knowing that I would never tell anyone else, or let the person know what he had told me. I was somewhat uncomfortable with that role, but it seemed to help him, and it wasn’t all that often.
There were things I would rather not have known about people. But those were more often not things specifically told to him in confidence, but unkind things people had said or done, that I wouldn’t have known about otherwise, because for whatever reason people inclined to gossip don’t generally include me in their conversations (for which I am usually grateful, but I am usually the last person to know about things everyone else thought that everyone know).
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I don’t even tell my wife about my own private personal struggles. I dang sure am not going to tell her about someone else’s!!
Calls to mind the call-in advice shows or Dear Abby. The one’s who start off with “Ya see, I got this friend George I’ll call him and..” and you know full well the caller or writer is telling about his own thoughts.
I think if a friend admitted to finding my wife attractive I’d admire him much more for that admission than I would if later my wife told me George made a suggestive or inappropriate remark. Confessions about what someone else has said or done are of dubious value. Confessions about my conduct or thought have cathartic value and dont betray a confidence
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First of all not confessing sin is a matter of pride.
Understandable that you dont go telling everyone everything. But if your not afraid to talk to the man, why should you be afraid if his wife knows? Even if she’s uneasy later, its only her struggle with pride as well.
Gossip is one thing, and a thing women can be bad at, but I honestly think the church could use alot more confession amongst its members, rather than hidden secrets that we enjoy wallowing in.
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On FB two friends were discussing a third man. Way back in high school in the early 80s, Adam was good friends with Bob. Charlie didnt care that much for Bob. Turns out when they were in Jr High school Bob put a pocket knife to Charlie’s throat in the lunch line. So at least in Jr High Bob was a bit of a bully.(Amazingly back then no one considered calling a cop, telling a grown up etc)
I finally told Adam that even though Bob may have been a friendly sort when they knew one another in the last years of high school, Charlie (and for different reasons, I as well) mistrusted or disliked Bob the knife.
Even though Charlie hadnt told Adam about the knife incident, I felt it might be good for Adam to know. But I spoze I shoulda let Bob divulge the details.
Again, the Jr High incident woulda been 1977 or 78. For all I know Bob coulda turned out quite normal, but I still wouldnt go up to the guy at any type of high school reunion.
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First of all not confessing sin is a matter of pride.
Agreed Thorn, but “confessing” someone else’s sin is as meaningless as apologizing for someone else’s behavior.
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I agree SG, but your wife/husband relationship is one flesh considered. Now, the wife or husband has no business fowarding that information to others without the discretion of the individual.
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My husband and I don’t put friendships between OUR relationship, those who want to confide in either one of us, know that our married relationship trumps any and all conversations.
A strong marriage stands as a trusted confidence between TWO people, which should not include the secrets of another which cannot be shared.
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I agree with you Victoria. But there are things about my wife’s gal pals that I have absolutely no desire to know or curiosity about. I would confide only if it impinged on that marital bond to not confide
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My philosophy has been to assume that anything I confide to another may be passed on to a third person. I don’t ask someone to keep something I tell them an absolute secret.
What I do instead is try to confide things to people I trust to use good judgment in how they will handle the information. In other words, if they were to tell a third person, I have a reasonable confidence they would only do it for a good reason, would choose that other person carefully, and would do their best to protect my privacy as much as possible.
The main reason I could envision someone telling a third person private information about me is to get help because the knowledge is causing them a struggle, or because they need help in knowing how to help me. Obviously I wouldn’t want someone to pass the information on gratuitously, just to tell a good story. Sometimes the information might help another person if told anonymously, “I once knew someone who …”. That is a closer call — I tend to be conservative when it comes to that.
But back to the original question about wives, I think it’s natural for a wife to fit the two categories I mentioned — someone who can help her husband with a struggle, or help him know what to do.
I suppose if a husband knew his wife had poor character, and would not handle the information well, that would make the situation much tougher. Not so much for his friend who shared confidential information, but for the husband feeling hindered in his marriage relationship. But I suppose that is part of life with sinners (even saved ones), our wives coping with all of our faults and vice-versa.
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But re-reading Anthony’s post, maybe he is talking about a philosophy that a husband should tell everything he knows to his wife even without a particular purpose, just for the sake of complete honesty between them.
If that’s it, I would not agree with that philosophy. I definitely think spouses should use judgment in what they tell each other, not just for the sake of their friend’s privacy, but for the sake of their spouse! Some things are better left not shared for sure.
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As a single person, I may have a different angle on this, but as far as I’m concerned, a married person always has a right to tell the spouse anything I say–and I explicitly tell my friends that I have that understanding of marriage. (I also tell them that I assume they won’t tell their husbands the kind of “girl stuff” that I wouldn’t say with their husbands in the room.) But honestly, my life probably isn’t all that fascinating to most of my friends’ husbands, and I hope my friends would use discretion if they think somehow their husbands can’t handle something I’ve said, but as far as I’m concerned, telling a husband is not breaking confidence, unless (I suppose) I’ve specifically asked that she not do so.
My married sister has a slightly different take on the issue (but the same basic idea)–if you don’t want her husband to know something, then don’t tell her either. (But then, I once told my sister something and asked her not to tell our mother–both of us girls were well into adulthood and living on our own–and she felt wrong about keeping the secret. I was traveling to Northern Arizona to visit an elderly friend who wasn’t doing well, and didn’t have time or money to travel down to Phoenix to see my mom while I was there. So I chose not to tell my mom I was visiting Arizona, to spare hurting her feelings–but I did tell my sister so that someone in the family could reach me in case of emergency. My sister “accepted” my secret that time but told me never to do that again, because she felt it was wrong, and another time if I told her such a secret she’d tell our mom. I didn’t see why the secret felt so dirty to her–and still don’t–because I had no obligation to report in to my mom, and no desire to hurt her feelings, and also no moral obligation to extend that particular trip to go to Phoenix. It seemed to me it was the kindest thing all around. I wouldn’t have asked my sister to keep such a secret from her husband, but she was a married woman and had no obligation to report my doings to our mom, either!)
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I always assume that — when I tell someone something — their spouse will know too. I appreciate one friend who always asks me, “Can I share this with my husband? We pray together and it will be hard for me not to share it with him.” But, even for friends who don’t ask first, I assume they will do similar sharing with a spouse.
So, I think that before a guy becomes an “accountability partner,” he should look at the guy and his wife as a TEAM. Does he trust both partners? Are the both emotionally stable and good Christians?
I think the *idea* of only one person knowing your personal business is great, but the *reality* is something different. Anything you say to someone can end up “out there” and you need to know that when you decide to share. Otherwise, you should only be sharing certain details with God and God alone (the best accountability partner there is!)
In some circumstances, you might say something like, “Bob, I committed a really heinous sexual sin in my past that really continues to bother me. I would like to confess that fact to you, and ask that you help me watch my sexual standards in the future.” And, leave all the details out if you really want it never, ever to go anywhere else.
Now, mind you, I do my UTMOST to not share confidential information. But, when you talk to lots of people, and hear lots of things, you may not always remember that something is confidential. (I’ve had friends ask me to keep confidential items that I can’t figure out why they *would* be confidential, and those are the hardest to remember not to mention.)
It helps, when I can share freely with my husband, get his advise, pray on it with him, and have a place to let it out safely. Then, I am less likely to let it slip with someone else.
In Christian thinking, a man and his wife are “one flesh,” so — in general — I think people ought to look at them that way and not expect that one is going to naturally keep something confidential from the other.
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You should never promise anyone that you will not tell another soul what they want to tell you in confidence. You simply can not promise that when you have no idea what they are about to say and even if you had an idea you have no idea what might follow that could make it necessary for you to reveal what you know.
However, there are plenty of circumstances in which you should not divulge confidential information to your wife or anyone else. Pastors, elders, and deacons should all be aware of this as well as non-officers in the church.
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Nopm – 14
I disagree, my father was a pastor and he talked to my mother about many things which never left our home. I overheard lots of their conversations – my mother was very adamant and strict when it came to talking about what we over-heard at home to others, we didn’t discuss the heartbreaking events in others lives.
If a pastor can’t discuss conversations with his wife, he doesn’t really have a help-mate – the idea of marriage is as one, a man and woman compliment one another, they work together within the church – this would also apply to elders as well. If you can’t trust both the husband and wife who serve in the church there is no reason for either one of them to be appointed.
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Not true.
What about Matthew 18:15? That in itself would forbid spilling the beans in your own affairs to some degree.
The very fact that you overheard conversations as a kid reveals that it is often not a good idea to discuss confidential matters with one’s spouse.
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Nopm, Matthew 18:15 doesn’t really apply. People often times are looking for advice from a friend or a pastor. Children hear their parents talking, at least I did growing up (I was in bed but I still heard their voices) and yes kids can learn at very early ages within the family of pastor’s to NEVER discuss private conversations.
Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. Matthew 18:15
If a husband and wife can’t discuss their heart with one another, they have a problem in their marriage. Marriage is built on trust, especially when it is a Christian marriage and the husband is a pastor, his wife is the person he should be sharing those types of conversations with – he has every right to talk to her, and she to him.
If you can’t tell your wife or husband, but you can talk to someone else and they can tell you everything about their life and you must keep it from your spouse you have problems. SECRETS from ones mate is the beginning of trouble.
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If I were to go to a pastor for advice, and he would tell me that everything we talked about was confidential, that he didn’t even tell his wife, I would leave as fast as I could pick up my handbag.
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#14 NOPM
I agree; I’ve always been vary wary of ‘promises’ made in advance without some idea of the content. As for elders, our church appoints elders in pairs, so both husband and wife must qualify to be elders or neither would be. And it’s because husbands and wives are a unit, and it’s assumed they often share with each other.
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We have been in ministry for almost 25 years with my husband as senior pastor in four churches. As pastor he cannot tell me everything that happens at the office or what all his counseling conversations are. Frankly, I don’t want to know what other men may be struggling with. When he has shared with me, I am saddened by the sins that men, women, and marriages face on a daily basis. When he does tell me something I never, repeat never, tell anyone else. He could vouch for me on this. We trust each other implicitly, he knows my heart, he knows I will pray for the situation and person. So I say no to a husband telling a wife everything, many women I know unfortunately struggle with gossip.
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Pastorwife – 20
Your husband has a fine jewel for a wife, so did my dad.
My mom would NEVER have repeated anything my dad discussed with her, and NO, my mother would not have wanted to know every single detail, my dad knew this but he also knew that if wanted to tell her he could.
Gossip is a problem for many women, it’s best to stay away from those who indulge, unless you’re in a larger crowd, it can mean trouble if they decide to make claims of what YOU DIDN’T SAY.
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Victoria,
A pastor should never meet a woman alone. If it is “alone” it ought to be done in a public place. If counseling is involved there ought to be another woman present and hopefully it would be the pastor’s wife (assuming he has one). A pastor ought never to guarantee confidentiality beforehand. He should simply say that he will try to use Biblical discretion (which hopefully everyone exercises). [I think Matthew 18:5 does apply -- the progression is from private to public based on the seriousness of the offense and the repentance, or lack of it, shown.]
DJ,
We agree in part. I can’t go along with the idea that women may be elders. However, that wouldn’t exclude a woman from being involved in counseling.
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NOPM
Many a spouse comes to talk to a pastor for all sorts of reasons. A pastor’s wife doesn’t need to present, but the door to the office MUST be OPEN. Many churches now have very large windows where everyone can observe the conversation, and open doors which preclude SECRECY.
When someone has been harmed, the Scripture you use do not always apply – as IN a spouse which isn’t a believer – a “brother” is someone who is a Believer, therefore it isn’t applicable in all situations. Many spouses find themselves (after they have become Believers) married to an un-Believer, so in essence the Scripture is not applicable. Husbands and wives often bring their complaints and proof to a wayward spouse, so that part has already been accomplished. It would do no good to bring a church elder to their home to confront the husband/wife with the accusation, that would be over-stepping the bounds if the spouse were unsaved.
Those who are none Believers are not brothers in Christ.
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I’m not sure I follow you.
My point is that a person should be able to trust that their pastor in general will not divulge private matters to his spouse. That doesn’t mean that there are not times when it might be prudent for a pastor tell his wife some details.
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I’m quite sure it’s illegal for a pastor to tell anyone what is said to him in confidence . . . the privacy of the confessional and all that. In addition, he has taken on a ministry that his wife doesn’t fully share, and the burdens of knowing all the church’s sins and dysfunctions doesn’t seem as though it needs to be hers. So I do think a valid exception is made for pastors; they should not tell their wives what has been told to them unless they have been given specific permission. (As a single woman, if I seek advice from an elder or a pastor, I start by specifically granting permission for him to discuss anything from the conversation with his wife.)
And for sure, a pastor who’d tell his wife things that parishioners have told him in confidence, in the possible hearing of his children, is breaking faith with his parishioners in a major way.
A humorous sidenote here. One of my brothers is a pastor, and at one point many years ago his answering machine malfunctioned. Instead of playing the pre-recorded greeting, it started playing the previous message left on the machine. In other words, if you called the pastor’s house and left a message, the next person who called the house heard your message. I’ve always been inclined not to think of voice mails as “private”; one never knows who will actually listen to the messages. But that was a rather extreme, if accidental, breach of confidence!
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A married pastor doesn’t stop being a husband when he marries or takes a church. A man is not bound by another mans conversation - however a man who is married and a pastor has every right to share whatever experiences he has, and that would include conversations with his wife, they are ONE, in more ways than ONE.
No one has the right to come between a pastor and his wife with their problems. If one wants to confess their sins to some one who they think will not tell their wife, why not join the RCC, after all they don’t have wives, DO THEY? –
A marriage is not put aside so that those who are pastor’s can have a relationship which is confidential to their wife and then multiple relationships with many of their congregation which are personal and confidential. There is nothing stipulated within the WORD of GOD which gives a person seeking counsel, to separate his problems with a pastor, not to be discussed with his wife.
IF a person trusts his pastor to tell all his problems to, then why wouldn’t he trust his pastor to talk to his wife? If a pastor isn’t able to marry a woman who is trustworthy, why would anyone trust the pastor with any problem, since they couldn’t trust his wife, …….. so where does that leave the pastor who married a woman with a loose tongue? The pastor than doesn’t have good judgment so why expect his judgment to change trying to solve YOUR PROBLEMS?
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There is the priest-penitent privilege which Cheryl is alluding to in #25. While I understand the need for a pastor to talk — after all, he’s human — I’m not so sure confessions should be “reconfessed” to a wife. That violates the idea that a confession to a minister is sacrosanct.
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NJL – 28
It isn’t that they confess their sins to the pastor, after all we KNOW that no one can forgive sins but GOD through Jesus Christ. There are those who want to discuss how they might solve a problem, etc. that is a much different situation.
A Roman Catholic Church is much different than a Protestant Evangelical Church – A RC Priest doesn’t have a wife.
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But the priest-penitent privilege also applies to non RCC. In theory, you should be able to talk to your minister in confidence about things you’ve done, whether you call it confession or just talk. If I call up my Baptist minister today and tell him I killed someone, that’s covered under the privilege. It’s mine for me to waive, not for him to waive. He’s not supposed to be telling anybody else what goes on between us.
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It’s the same thing as doctor-patient privilege.
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“My point is that a person should be able to trust that their pastor in general will not divulge private matters to his spouse. That doesn’t mean that there are not times when it might be prudent for a pastor tell his wife some details.”
If you trust the pastor, why would you not trust his wife?
The point is not to blab everything. The point is that a husband/wife are one, and you should expect them both to know when you divulge. Not that the will necessarily.
Why is that a problem? What dark secrets abound that your afraid of one more person knowing?
There shouldnt be any really.
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“In theory, you should be able to talk to your minister in confidence about things you’ve done”
Aye, but whats wrong with his wife knowing?
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NJL – 31
A doctor is much different than ones pastor.
A pastor’s marriage and his commitment to the LORD is first and his second to his wife should never be questioned, nor should ANY SECRET be held with another person. Anyone wanting to give details of their private lives, or that of their spouse cannot expect the pastor to have a SECRET with this individual which doesn’t include his wife.
How many people have tried to have a personal private relationship with a pastor or elder? – Why would anyone seek this type of relationship? –
Pastors for the most part are very wary of such conversations – Billy Graham would not even get into an elevator if it stopped and a woman was the only person inside – he waited for another elevator – he wouldn’t even be in a room with another woman ALONE – he knew better. That’s why doors are open, and windows are very large in the hallway so people cannot trap ministers.
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Thorn,
The more people that know something the more likely it will be spread.
Why doesn’t the pastor’s wife trust the pastor? Why does she need to know everything about everyone? If people want to go to the wife for advice they are free to do so (and my guess is that some women do go specifically to the pastor’s wife).
Are you suggesting that no one has a right to privacy in the church? Why don’t we relay all our struggles to the entire church then since we should have nothing to hide.
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Why wouldn’t the person coming to the pastor for advice TRUST him to use good judgment in speaking to his wife? If he/she doesn’t believe the pastor has good judgment regarding his wife I can’t imagine why they would talk to the pastor or elder in the first place.
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My husband is a physician and also an elder in our church. In his medical work, there are things he learns about people (sometimes people we both know) that he is, by law, not permitted to tell me. In his church work, there sometimes are things he learns about other church members that would not be edifying or helpful for me to know.
I don’t feel that I need to know everything my husband hears or is told. He doesn’t expect me to tell him everything I hear or talk about with other people. Neither of us is being dishonest with the other, and it really isn’t an issue of trust. It’s more a question of whether knowing certain information about others will help or hinder our ability to minister to those people. If it will not help, the information should not be shared.
My $0.02…
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I would trust a pastor to use good judgment and in general that means keeping private matters to himself. I also think there is a danger involved with any spouse sharing too much information about another with their spouse. It becomes an occasion for gossip within the marriage relationship. They may actually begin to love the little exchanges of other people’s problems. In general it is better for married couples to worry about the logs in their own eyes. [I'm not saying it is never appropriate, but I tend to think sinners more easily fall into traps than stay on the high ground.]
Proverbs 11:13 “He who goes about as a talebearer reveals secrets, But he who is trustworthy conceals a matter.”
Proverbs 17:9 “He who conceals a transgression seeks love, But he who repeats a matter separates intimate friends.”
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I find that remark very strange – two married people serving the LORD as a pastor and wife, discussing the needs and problems within the church as GOSSIP? – that’s a sad comment, you might look at the individuals who come to them with the stories in the first place.
The passages of Scripture you cite are not applicable to a man and wife discussing the needs within their church, as the husband is the pastor.
If you want to use those passages Mike, then they would apply to the person coming to the pastor to tell their stories – see how that works?
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Are you saying it is not possible to gossip with your spouse?
Gossip, of course, generally has much more to do with the intent of the gossiper rather than the actual information. I don’t (for one second) believe that a pastor and his wife are immune from sin and specifically from the sin of gossip. They can have just as much a problem with gossip between themselves as another might have with other church members. [The passages certainly can be true in a marriage relationship -- even I have seen enough Jane Austen movies to know that.]
Generally an individual comes to the pastor to seek advice about matters he would like to keep private. And generally the pastor should be the person most able to offer sound advice since he is steeped and trained in the Scriptures. The individual is not storytelling in such a situation.
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Nopm
Anytime a person relates a story they are telling their side of it, and the individual listening, (in this case the pastor or his wife) are trying to be objective – that isn’t always easy, that is why those who are pastor’s often ask the other their impute.
YOU WROTE:
“Gossip, of course, generally has much more to do with the intent of the gossiper rather than the actual information. I don’t (for one second) believe that a pastor and his wife are immune from sin and specifically from the sin of gossip. They can have just as much a problem with gossip between themselves as another might have with other church members.”
That’s a sad commentary on your experience Mike – mine is VERY different – that’s why we disagree on this subject.
YOU WROTE:
“[The passages certainly can be true in a marriage relationship -- even I have seen enough Jane Austen movies to know that.]”
LOL, oh that makes perfect sense -
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It has nothing to do with your personal experience, nor mine. Not everyone is the same.
I’m glad you liked the Jane Austen comment.
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Nopm
We all take our personal experiences with us through life. Some have had more experience then others in certain areas.
I consider my personal experience to be valuable, at least to me and those around me. Without experience one would be hard pressed to have an opinion on many subjects. It’s through experience that we grow and develop, coming to conclusions through……. ‘experience’ -
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I appreciated your thoughtful article Bradley.
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“Are you suggesting that no one has a right to privacy in the church?”
No, thats not my point. And I’m not calling to spread it around to everyone.
“Why don’t we relay all our struggles to the entire church then since we should have nothing to hide”
We should is my point. I think the church err’s more often on the side of “hiding” our sins rather than being open about it. I’m not saying be boastful or prideful about it. I’m not saying you have to shout it to everyone.
I’m just saying, if you want help from someone like a pastor, because your struggling, why are you worried about his wife knowing? Frankly the more who are praying and holding you accountable should be welcomed dont you think?
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#46, Thorn: “I’m just saying, if you want help from someone like a pastor, because your struggling, why are you worried about his wife knowing? Frankly the more who are praying and holding you accountable should be welcomed dont you think?”
that is true, whether it is a pastor or accountability partner.
there is a proverb: he who covers his sin will not prosper; but he that confesses and forsakes it will find mercy.
#41 Mike, that is insightful. the same temptations are common to all of us–pastors, pastor’s wives, missionaries, laypeople, religionists, agnostics, atheists. also, your statement, “Gossip, of course, generally has much more to do with the intent of the gossiper rather than the actual information,” is true by definition.
i appreciate the discussion.
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#46, “I’m just saying, if you want help from someone like a pastor, because your struggling, why are you worried about his wife knowing? Frankly the more who are praying and holding you accountable should be welcomed dont you think?”
I don’t think that the pastor’s wife needs to know every detail of a situation in order to be praying for you or holding you accountable to the laws of God.
I think that was the original point of the OP – that John really didn’t need to share with his wife all the details of Sam’s struggles. He could have told her that he was concerned for his struggling friend, and asked her to join him in prayer for Sam, without revealing every specific thing Sam had mentioned to him. That’s not the same thing as a lack of honesty.
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Victoria,
Personal experience is valuable. However, the Biblical principle of this matter (as I understand it) has more sway over my views of it than whatever personal experience might contribute to the discussion.
Thorn,
“I’m just saying, if you want help from someone like a pastor, because your struggling, why are you worried about his wife knowing?”
I think some individuals are likely not worried if the pastor tells his wife — it probably depends on the issue. But, I would still be worried about a pastor (and his wife) if the pastor is habitually telling his wife details about other individuals when there is no need for those details to be related.
There are some issues that a person may not want the wife to know about. I don’t want to start inventing scenarios, but in general if a person is under the beginnings of discipline that is of a sensitive nature you would want few people to know of it (just the session and obviously the accuser and potential witnesses)because it may be the person is innocent. And in general most people presume guilt and thus treat the individual differently.
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Nopm – 50
You appear to be overly concerned about pastor’s wives and their ability to be a help-mate to their pastor husband. I’ve known a lot of pastor’s and wives, and their children, as I am a pastor’s daughter – Never have I heard gossip from a pastor’s wife.
Since I can remember people have sought me out many times to unburden themselves, be it sin or a hurtful situation. I have listened and prayed for them, and yes I have shared with my husband. My husband and I pray every morning before he leaves for his appointments, …… he prays first and always prays for those in need. I can trust him, he wouldn’t think of telling another person what he knows. My husband is not a pastor, but he is a strong Believer.
When I’m in a group of people or Bible study – one situation is far more troubling and that is ‘PRAYER GOSSIP’ – someone decides to pray aloud for someone, leaking out someones personal life in a group of people.
If you go to a church and your pastor is married to a gossip, I would most likely leave – I’ve never been in that situation, but if I found out either husband or wife gossiped that would be the end of my attendance at the church.
A phycologist we were aquainted with in one of the churches talked about other people, even his friends. I’ve known doctor’s to devuldge information about other people which is none of my business. HOWEVER, I’ve never known a pastor’s wife with a loose tongue, and I have known a great many…… I have known deaconesses who gossiped. Those who gossip are found out quickly, their habits are known.
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In re: 48
Well, it seems the issue of the OP arises out of the wife’s reaction around the person in question. But the wife shouldnt react in such ways knowing someone elses sin, the pastor isnt. Seems obvious she is being judgemental. Maybe simply in the same way that its easy to love someone pretty or handsome, but hard to love a retarded kid for some. Then again, knowing someone’s sins can also make us want to be sensitive to those issues, and thus we react awkwardly.
In re: 49
Church discipline denotes a lack of repetance, whether innocent or guilty. I dont think thats the same thing as someone coming to a pastor out of confession or to anyone else.
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Thorn,
I think its all related to the same basic question of gossip and privacy.
I suppose that is enough from me.
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Should wives and husbands tell each other everything?
Do women really want to know what men are actually thinking at all times? I don’t think it would be possible to have a relationship that honest. Does my wife really want to know when she doesn’t look pretty or when she says something dumb or when she is being childish? It would require a very high level of maturity and a willingness to deal with a lot of hurt without resentment. I would never want to be that transparent.
But then I think about Jesus who knew other people’s thoughts. He treated the woman at the well with kindness even knowing her innermost secrets. That is the grace of God, to know all of a person’s sins and love him/her anyway. I’ve never seen that kind of love in my lifetime. If everyone at church knew everyone else’s thoughts the church would immediately dissolve.
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As for the trust issue, I admire some of the women here who can be trusted with secrets.
I mentioned to my pastor once that I heard something “through the grapevine” and he said, “Your wife is the grapevine!”. He was right. You know that verse that says that everything said in secret will be shouted from the rooftops? Well, that pretty much describes my life.
Nothing is too intimate or inappropriate for my wife to tell her friends about. They know everything about me and I mean everything (use your imagination). When they look at me I wonder what they are thinking. For this reason I rarely tell her anything that I don’t want spread around. The kids and others do the same.
She won’t be confronted about it or change, so I have come to just accept it. As husbands and wives, we know each other’s sins and some won’t ever go away. I’ve come to view this as an opportunity to love, despite all the pain and hurt loose lips can cause.
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Yeah, this happened to me after my ex-husband and I met with our pastor and one elder. The elder went home and told his wife how our marraige was falling apart, infidelity, etc. The wife proceeded to call me on the phone and offer to “be there” for me. I was horrified that she knew this confidential information. The next thing I noticed is that we spent six more months in this church where literally NO one spoke to me. And we had potlucks and a second service EVERY week. So none of the women would acknowledge that I existed while we prepared and ate our meals and attended our two services. Barely any of the men acknowledged my husband. I tried explaining this to the pastor and how this just wasn’t going to work, to no avail, and we finally decided to leave the church. The problem is that when those in leadership believe that their church is the only correct church, it can’t be right for people to leave. So we were not allowed to leave quietly. We were harassed by mail/pupit/phone for two years and then excommunicated. Ah, the power of the foolish tongue and the use of foolish power!!
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Perhaps we would not need these “Mutual Meddling Associations” (accountability partners) if we would be content to stay home rather than eat out, entertain ourselves at home, rather than at the movies, beach, etc., in other words, not expose ourselves to so much immodesty which promotes lust, which, in turn, only serves to entertain our accountability partner when we discuss our personal battles.
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Seems to me that John’s wife is married to John and not to Sam.
In other words, anything going on in John’s life is fair game for his wife to know, but anything going on in Sam’s life is not. I suppose I’m only an ignorant single person, but I respect people who decline to reveal priveledged information. I think that would extend even to my hypothetical wife. I may be curious, but it’s about her friend, not me, so it’s none of my business.
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People confess their struggles and sins to their pastor in his professional capacity, much as they would talk to a professional psychologist. They assume his integrity, which includes his ability to keep private matters private. For a pastor to talk about it with his wife is not only a breach of confidence, both professionally and personally, that may alienate the person confessing and end up irrevocably damaging relationships, but it is also nothing more than hearsay.
Pastors and their wives are only human–they may make mistakes, rush to judgment, take on grudges on behalf of others, which the Bible forbids.
I have known gossipy pastors and wives all my life.
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BTW, the “one flesh” argument for tellling spouses all is a little silly. Is it okay to only invite the husband to dinner and not the wife because they’re “one flesh” anyway?
Or only to get a Christmas present for her and not for him, because they are one flesh? Or give him medical care when she’s sick? On Father’s Day, does it matter which of your parents you express love and gratitude towards, seeing how spiritually and emotionally one they are?
Can you talk as intimately to your sister’s husband as you do to your sister and give him the same big tearful hugs?
If in ministry a pastor and his wife are the same flesh, why not take turns in the pulpit?
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“If in ministry a pastor and his wife are the same flesh, why not take turns in the pulpit?”
Now there is a thought…
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