Learn it! Speak it! Live it!
Bring Christmas to a child in need!
Joel Belz responds to questions about his and Marvin Olasky's participation in the Manhattan Declaration. 
Click to Print
Include Comments
“Why did the turtle cross the road?”
What do an abandoned train station, a state-run liquor warehouse, and an underground highway crossing for turtles all have in common? Each of them are part of $5.5 billion in unnecessary stimulus package spending that Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., identified in his stimulus oversight report, released today. It highlights the top-100 worst examples of waste in President Obama’s stimulus spending plan.
“I opposed the stimulus bill because I was concerned that 80 to 90 percent of the spending would not be true stimulus,” Coburn said. “I hope I am proven wrong. Yet, our initial findings continue to show that taxpayers are not getting the value they deserve and need.”
According to the report, the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act includes almost $10 million to renovate an abandoned train station that has not been used in 30 years, $2.2 million to install skylights in a Montana liquor warehouse, and $300 (each) for construction road signs to advertise whenever a road project is being paid for with government stimulus money.
Coburn also pointed out a $3.4 million Florida Department of Transportation project for an “eco-passage”—a road crossing for turtles under U.S. Highway 27 in Lake Jackson, Fla.
Ed DeSeve, senior adviser to the president for Recovery Act implementation, said,
With 20,000 projects approved, there are bound to be some mistakes. When we find them, we have been transparent about it, and worked on a bipartisan basis to shut them down immediately. Sen. Coburn’s report, however, is filled with inaccuracies, including criticisms of projects that have already been stopped, projects that never were approved, and some projects that are working quite well.
Coburn’s report stated,
Why did the turtle cross the road? To get to the other side of a stimulus project.
back to top33 Comments to ““Why did the turtle cross the road?””
It’s interesting to compare and contrast the AP version/response to the Senator’s report which contains just a little spin.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090616/D98RI8302.html
Report comment to moderator
The President’s advisor, Ed DeSeve, says:
“With 20,000 projects approved, there are bound to be some mistakes.”
Oh yeah, especially when they rammed the whole 1,000 page package through without even reading it or allowing debate on it.
DeSeve’s belated justification is just nonsense. Am I mistaken, or does his name rhyme with “deceive.”
Report comment to moderator
Coburn obviously didn’t grow up with turtles, or he’d have half a heart.
http://www.hsus.org/wildlife/issues_facing_wildlife/wildlife_crossings_wild_animals_and_roads/turtle_cross_the_road.html
In Louisiana, motorists don’t run over turtles, they take them home and eat them. Another reason to get people out of trucks and onto buses and light rail!
Report comment to moderator
Scroop,
Well, it’s very easy to be all emotional and holler “Oooh, waste!” That gets everyone all riled up and makes headlines. It’s another to actually – you know – study the issues, work with them day to day, and understand where the legitimate needs are. Not so many headlines doing that.
Report comment to moderator
Road crossing for wildlife are actually very important. Turtles don’t reproduce quickly, yet they offer great benefits to their ecosystems and to our lives. Dozens of turtles hit by cars at one location, is a big problem for turtle populations and the local ecology. And the construction PUTS PEOPLE TO WORK, so how is it not real stimulus? We get employed road workers, a healthier economy, and healthier turtles! That’s a win, win, win.
Report comment to moderator
Mynock.
If the turtles were really so valuable, they would pay for their own crossing. Also, we’d all be better off if the turtle crossing were privatized.
Report comment to moderator
Moth (#3):
Just a little bit of common sense goes a long way here. Your Humane Society link highlighted the good efforts of turtle fans to help them via the use of existing culverts to assist in their safe passage across roadways. It was “impressive” that with all their efforts, they noted that a grand total of three turtles actually used their crossing facility. Hmmm. More power to these righteous turtle lovers. If they want to spend their time and tears on these projects, it’s a free country, let them. The three turtles would probably have gotten safely across anyway, but in a Disney film they would probably say, “Thanks.” OK.
Now to Florida’s project for a $3.4 million “Turtle Tunnel.” Using the Humane Society statistics, that’s over $1.1 million per turtle crossing. Somewhere in this story, common sense has been crushed more completely than any of the dead turtles these people are crying over. If Florida turtle lovers want to spend their own time and money building little fences to direct turtles to existing culverts, that’s great. But millions of dollars of tax payer money for such things when there are so many other desperate needs—that’s absolutely insane!
Next, I suppose you will want millions for moth-proof light bulbs to save all your relatives from extinction.
Report comment to moderator
You want to set up a turtle toll? Are you kidding?
Report comment to moderator
I wish number 6 were merely sarcasm. Number 7 proves it’s not…
Report comment to moderator
And the construction PUTS PEOPLE TO WORK, so how is it not real stimulus?
The more prosperity the stim brings, the more Republicans hate it, MYNOCK. They don’t want warehouses to save electricity or furnish workers with pleasant space, and they don’t want the private projects that could piggy back on a $2.2M government project. They don’t want property values within a half mile of the turtle crossing to rise 5%. They don’t want an office building across the street from the renovated train station to fill up with tenants. Republicans have zero-sum imaginations, MYNOCK.
Report comment to moderator
Moth (#10) writes:
“And the construction PUTS PEOPLE TO WORK, so how is it not real stimulus?
Yeah, ancient Egypt put people to work building giant pyramids for dead kings too. So we put people to work building “Turtle Tunnels?” Stimulus yes, but equally stupid. Even DeSever, in his comments, acknowledge that is was among many mistakes in the stimulus package, yet I see no efforts to change it. And I see people on this blog, like unthinking Democrat zombies, still defending it. What a farce!
The point, for the more obtuse among us, is what we put people to work doing and how we go about that.
Dead Pharoahs and today’s Democrats—cut from the same cloth.
Report comment to moderator
4. “It’s another to actually – you know – study the issues, work with them day to day, and understand where the legitimate needs are.”
Too bad congress didn’t take the time to do that.
Report comment to moderator
Re: putting people to work as stimulus. IF, Mynock, the project has some kind of economic payback that would fly in a world other than that inhabited by the feds — a road project, perhaps, that connects two disconnected economic hubs, promoting trade — then you’ve got a situation where the future economic benefit quite possibly exceeds the cost of the project. That would be stimulus.
The mere fact of putting people to work for a short time, however, does not stimulate the economy in any way other than you could attain by doling out the same dollars as a handout, so they can spend it on rent or at WalMart. Sure, it does people good to work rather than to sit around on the dole, and that has societal benefit. But it does little to stimulate the economy in a way that exceeds the tax dollars spent.
Report comment to moderator
To continue 13, constructing a turtle crossing has some societal benefit (otherwise idle workmen have something to do for a few weeks) and arguably it has some ecological benefit as well — assuming it functions as advertised, and doesn’t inadvertently wipe out some other species inhabiting the same patch.
But it fails as *economic* stimulus, unless those turtles are going to come back next season with lots of cool cash, and souvenirs on their little turtle minds. Therefore, it doesn’t belong in an *economic* stimulus package.
Report comment to moderator
Here’s a thought, lower taxes and regulations on small business and freelancers. Oh no, the government doesn’t want to just create new jobs, they want to control those jobs.
Report comment to moderator
How do the turtles know to use the safe crossing? First, there’s this turtle tunnel, free of charge. But when the turtle crosses the road, he/she’s going to cross at the nearest point. Next thing there will be millions spent on turtle signs pointing to the crossing. And a crossing guard to direct traffic, because turtles are going to cross both ways.
It ain’t that simple guys. No wonder it takes $3.4m.
Hwy. 27, btw, is a big highway. If I were a turtle, I would be very careful. It’s a long way under that road.
Report comment to moderator
Chas,
They use fencing to direct the turtles to the tunnel. And the tunnel goes where turtles are already inclined to cross.
Report comment to moderator
And this creates wealth, HOW?
Report comment to moderator
Scroop,
If the Humane Society was half as concerned as they seem to be, they would raise a ruckus, make some money, and build the crossing tunnel themselves. If every PETA member, animal sympathizer, and baby animal lover in this country donated five bucks, they’d get $3.4 mil no problem. And then the money would be circulating among the actual people in the actual nation, instead of digging a large black hole in the government’s wallet.
Report comment to moderator
If you were a gazillion dollars in debt, would you borrow more to build a turtle crossing?
How do the Chinese feel about turtle crossings? Our government’s next bond offering might give us a clue.
Report comment to moderator
My daughter wants to know how the turtles will know they are to use the crossing. Maybe they could put up tiny little signs that say, “paid for by the stimulus package.” Maybe the signs could include little photos of BO smiling. How big of tunnel do turtles need? Are they putting in lights, fans, and maybe a little fly bar for the turtles?
Report comment to moderator
MIM – the presence of cute wildlife and biodiversity raises property values. Turtle crossings encourage a public ethos of conservation in the community, which attracts people with money.
Report comment to moderator
And after they install the sky lights, they will turn off the ceiling lights? How long will it take to recupe the money and start saving? After the lights are installed, will the hired employees be laid off? More unemployement, just a couple months down the road!
Report comment to moderator
Here is where we could recoup some money.
Audit finds Blackwater didn’t pay $55 Million for contract infractions under Bush
Report comment to moderator
Now, I am not for spending so much on turtles, but all of you are overlooking a safety issue. Have you ever run over a turtle? A decent sized turtle could cause the driver of a small Government Motors car to lose control or ruin the front end, costing the owner thousands to repair.
Of course I am being facetious, but I have hit a turtle when I was going 60MPH in a VW Rabbit. It was a small turtle, but still made me wonder what damage I had to repair. Now, I watch for them and go around them, which most drivers are quite capable of doing. Perhaps turtle crossing signs, like the deer crossing ones, would be less costly and just as effective.
Report comment to moderator
#5
And the construction PUTS PEOPLE TO WORK, so how is it not real stimulus?
So lets go break all of Mynock’s windows. That will put the glaziers to work. And when they are fixed we can break them again… More stimulus. And we can do it every three months so that it will be a continuous source of employment.
A real stimulus means meaningful work of a continuing neighbor. Once all of the turtles have crossed there is no more ’stimulus’ job.
Report comment to moderator
Moth (#22):
As a former professional real estate appraiser, I can tell you without a shadow of doubt that the wildlife factors you mentioned have almost zero effect on real estate prices. The overall physical beauty of the area does plays a role and good conservation contributes to that. But, when it comes to what buyers really want and are willing to pay for, the basics of the home and property are what really count (square footage, amenities, quality of construction, acreage, etc.).
As far as wildlife is concerned, it is sometimes viewed more as a minus than a plus. I live in an area where we have a lot of “cute” deer, but they are destructive pests that many people are glad to see in the distance but abhor on their own property. They destroy your gardens, your flowers, and many of your trees. Some people will just not buy because of the problem. So, at best, “cute” wildlife is a mixed bag that is very difficult, if not impossible, to quantify in terms of real estate values. But, I can assure you that a Turtle Tunnel will not raise prices one cent.
You are kidding no one but yourself, Moth.
Report comment to moderator
Continuing nature,,,, not neighbor
Report comment to moderator
And if these turtles are American turtles, Obama will want to tax them. Illegal turtles will get a free ride.
Report comment to moderator
News2me. There will be little signs in turtle language (sign language for the illegals) that say “This Way”.
Report comment to moderator
Why did the turtle cross the road? I don’t know, but expect to see many of the shelled reptiles – June is when they are most likely to cross the road, at least here in the northeast.
Report comment to moderator
In 31 comments, no one’s addressed this, from DeSeve:
Sen. Coburn’s report, however, is filled with inaccuracies, including criticisms of projects that have already been stopped, projects that never were approved, and some projects that are working quite well.
Once again, the fact that the partisan report is alleged to have a large number of gross errors doesn’t even slow you all down from taking it at face value and complaining about the eeevil Democrats.
Report comment to moderator
SteveG (#32):
Your observation might have some validity if you can be more specific about all those supposed stopped projects. If any have actually been stopped it is only because of Republican opposition, not Democrats. If Democrats had their way completely, every one of those projects would be fully funded as originally planned.
We know, in fact, that they were all approved, along with all the other money grabbing projects, in a bill that was rammed through Congress without opportunity for even reading the whole bill, much less debating it. Republicans have taken the bill at “face value,” your pathetic, bleating excuses notwithstanding. The only thing we do not take at face value is your after-the-fact quibbling about what you have already done.
The fact of the matter is, bipartisanship is out the window. It never was an intended goal. All of Obama’s promises in that regard were nothing but lies the moment they passed over his lips. As planned, Democrats are using their new legislative and executive power to virtually grab anything they want, pay off their cronies, and reward their drooling followers at the public trough. From the very beginning, this is what they wanted and this is what they are now doing. It is as obvious as your empty excuses.
Report comment to moderator
back to topJoin The Conversation
You need to be a registered user of WORLDonTheWeb.com to "join the conversation."
If you are not a member yet, what are you waiting for? Register / Login Now!