Removing the velvet glove
When you wish to know where you are headed, it is good to observe someone who is further down the road than you. From what I read of England, they are a few kilometers down the motorway from the United States.
Julian Brazier of the House of Commons recently urged the leader of the House as follows:
“On the last day of term, may I appeal for a debate during the forthcoming term on prejudice against Christians in a growing proportion of the public services? On top of a string of incidents involving health service and local authority workers being penalized for offering to pray for people, for saying ‘God bless’ to them and so on, the worst case of all must be that of the foster mother who had fostered a large number of children in care and provided a loving home for them, but who lost her job, and with it her house, because a 16-year-old girl she was fostering chose to convert to Christianity. . . .”
The teenager (whose name is being withheld, along with the foster mother’s, for legal reasons) was from a Muslim family. In 2007 the foster mother was asked to take her in, as the girl had been assaulted by a family member. The accused woman is reported to be “devastated” by the turn of events. Her claim that she had put no pressure on the girl to become a Christian was met with no sympathy by council authorities, who allege she failed to “respect and preserve” her ward’s faith.
The Christian Institute has stepped in to fund the foster mom’s defense. Its spokesman Mike Judge said, “This is the sort of double standard which Christians are facing in modern Britain. In recent months, we have seen grandparents, a nurse, adoption agencies, firemen, registrars, elderly care homes, and now a foster carer being punished because of the Christian beliefs they hold. . . .”
Hold on to your hat. We are in for quite a ride.
To hear commentaries by Andrée Seu, click here.

















Click to Print
Include Comments











back to top21 Comments to “Removing the velvet glove”
Well, I am not sure this quite qualifies as being persecuted, but you do seem to be getting there.
On the other hand, Christianity does seem to thrive best under persecution. Otherwise, it becomes fat, lazy, and complacement.
[I am not saying that any comment posters at wmb qualify on all three counts simultaneously.)
Be careful what you wish for and whine about. It might happen.
Report comment to moderator
By the way, I did email Andrée (as I mentioned on an earlier day). She replied to me expeditiously and politely.
Report comment to moderator
England is becoming an Islamic nation. Shira is practiced in certain locations.
Conversion from Islam is apostasy and is punishable by death.
So also, is attempting to convert a Muslim.
This woman had better be careful because it appears that the once vaunted English legal system will not protect her.
“..observe someone who is further down the road from you”.
Coming soon to a community near you.
Could this happen in Dearborn, Michigan?
Obama, BTW is an apostate Muslim. I have no doubt that many Muslims view him this way.
Report comment to moderator
Now this is persecution.
Report comment to moderator
I’m waiting for the perpetually aggrieved comment … but not endorsing it simply because religions should be free to duke it out in the public domain without interference from the gov’t. The gov’t should only be concerned with keeping the fight in the ring and not in the spectator’s seats.
As for the 16 year old — Its a bit paternalistic for anyone to choose her religion. At 16 she should have the right to walk out of any foster care situation she finds herself in and even go back to the initial caregiver as a boarder.
Report comment to moderator
The West has become superficial in its faith perhaps because of a lack of persecution. We’re comfortable with our “churchiness and religiousity”.
God used persecution to disperse the early churches into surrounding areas and He uses persecution to purify His church today. After all, who’s going to suffer for something they don’t truly believe or just for Sunday “socializing” or for free coffee and doughnuts?
Paul warned Timothy (2 Timothy 3:12) that persecution was inevitable. And Jesus told his disciples that the world would hate them as it hated him (John 15).
The message of the Cross is confrontational to a world in rebellion to God, and we are called to follow and count the cost. And for many of our brothers and sisters, the cost is very high. (check out Voice of the Martyrs and Samaritans purse for ways to help support fellow Christians).
It’s easy to be discouraged about the state of Christian faith in the West, but Christianity isn’t limited to churches in America or Europe. There’s exciting growth and vitality in places like Korea, Africa, Latin America and even China.
Praise God that His word goes forth and “achieves the purpose for which it was sent.” (Isaiah 55:11).
Report comment to moderator
In America, foster families are also expected to allow the child to follow his faith or not attend any. We make it clear that we attend church and attend it as a family. They are welcome to place children with us with that understanding. I did make one exception with a teen boy who claimed to be a devout Mormon. I said we would arrange for him to attend a Mormon whatever they are called. When it came down to it, he decided the social workers did not bring him a suit so he would not be allowed in the building (not true by the way). I told him he was welcome to wear jeans and a tshirt at our church, he went, he sat attentively, he cooperated and spoke pleasantly to all. A pleasure to have around but I was not going to force him to go to a separate church based on the few months he had been in a mormon foster home. Especially as his parents had made it clear they did not want him becoming mormon. They are not believers.
Anyway, the point of this rambling is that we have a similar requirement in American foster system though I have never heard of anybody calling anybody on it. The foster workers try to place the kids in homes that will work for them. As in the native American position of only putting NA kids into NA homes.
Report comment to moderator
HRW,
Who chose the 16 yr olds religion? The Muslims were trying to enforce theirs on her but she is free to choose unless they honor kill her in which case her ability to choose will no longer be an option.
Report comment to moderator
Agreed which is why I think the state should leave this alone. If a 16 year old foster child wants to go to church with her foster mom so be it. Why a 16 year old is considered a minor and in need of foster care is an other question I’m trying to raise. She should have the right to a voice in her placement or even to simply walk away and find her own apartment and live independently in which case she can go to church if she desires.
Reduce it to a question of individual rights and leave religion out of it and the girl should be free to choose her own way.
Report comment to moderator
In Islam, they do not choose their religion at 16.
They are not baptised into it, as some Christian children are.
They are born into it.
If you choose another religion, you are apostate.
Nonie Darwish, Now they Call Me Infidel
Ayaan Hirst Ali, Infidel
Report comment to moderator
Most 16 yr. olds are not very grown up yet. I have had friends who found that they will hop to another foster home until they find one that lets them do whatever they want to do. Then they often go on to getting pregnant or in trouble in some other way. How sad for them!! I know it was very sad for my friends who truly loved the young woman who did it to them. They wanted her best. Others were glad to take the money for taking her, but didn’t love her enough to protect her from her own immaturity and foolishness. BTW, isn’t that what good parents do for their own children?
I’m not sure why some people think persecution is only when some big torture is done to someone. Persecution comes in many ways and forms. It can be quite subtle.
The bible does say we will be persecuted. No surprise then when we are. However, Paul used every legal option to stop injustice and their is no reason christians should not also do that. That includes speaking out, which is still somewhat allowed in that country, is it not?
Report comment to moderator
HRW,
In the US, children approve or diapprove an adoption at age 12. They can pretty much do the same in foster care as I understand it. The difficulty comes when nobody is left who will take them and then they often end up in residential care. I believe our country also allows for emancipated minors at sixteen but it is a process that needs to be worked through. I suspect the minor has to show the judge that he is able to work and maintain some level of living. I know it is available, just not sure to whom.
Report comment to moderator
Similar rights for 12 year olds exist in Canada including input in custody cases.
The term emancipated is telling — from what is the minor seeking freedom, what bondage exists?
The slight in this incident is not religious but individual rights — a 16 year old should be free to choose a religion and a 16 year old should be consider legally competent to resist undue influence.
To cite this as a battle between two collectives is to ignore the issue and ironically sets the argument precisely where the Muslim community would like it. Applying individual rights here is to assert western values — the Enlightenment project if you will — as opposed to collective values, and opposed to a theocratic version of the public sphere.
Report comment to moderator
Agreed. The sixteen year old should be trusted to be making her own decision. I do not believe the government need be involved. But her personal safety is also at risk in her decision as we well know the difficulty of honor killings. I suspect the foster mom would also be at risk for this. I would not begin to suggest a Christian foster home should close the door to a Muslim child in need, nor a Muslim foster home to a Christian child. But that is certainly a risk that the child will adopt the home of safety’s religion. Knowing this, the Muslim community might make certain there are ample foster homes available in their belief set in the event the social services does become involved. Better yet, knock the blocks off of the jerks (not in the literal sense) before the damage is done to the child.
When we looked into the idea of emancipated minor for various of our children (we, living overseas, they, needing the ability to live as adults while attending college) it appeared a way for forward moving children to take on adult responsibilities. Not so much fleeing the past as taking hold of the future. Free to sign for rentals, loans, phone service, whatever.
Report comment to moderator
Nothing to do with religion, but I had a friend who told me that he divorced his parents at the age of 15.
He said, “My mother was mentally ill. My father indulged her. We (the children) suffered. A friend’s family agreed to take me. I found a lawyer who represented me. The judge signed an order for my custody to be transferred to this other family.”
Report comment to moderator
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayaan_Hirsi_Ali
http://arabsforisrael.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonie_Darwish
It is incumbent on anyone who cares about truth who cares about people, who care at all , to read and become knowledgeable of the above.
Report comment to moderator
For all practical purposes, children are the property of their parents. Some parents do a fine job; some do a terrible job; most are more or less mediocre.
Any system that tries to regulate this in a large way through government intervention probably does more harm than good. Nevertheless, in the case of serious abuse or neglect, it’s appropriate for the state to intervene.
When my daughter and daughter out of law and five-year old grandchild visited the people I call in my blog “The Friendly Neighbors” (devout Christians who worked for the Boy Scouts of America for all their lives), “Mommy” (my daughter’s partner) said that as Random Granddaughter gets older, she will take her to various churches to expose her to various forms of worship so as she become an adult she will have a basis for deciding for herself on a belief system or on atheism.
The Friendly Neighbors (who belong to and are active in a mainstream Protestant Church) expressed their enthusiasm for this approach.
Report comment to moderator
Knowing this, the Muslim community might make certain there are ample foster homes available in their belief set in the event the social services does become involved.
The Catholic church has long had a parallel children service in Canada funded by the gov’t. Would you support the same for Islam? For the Muslim community this may be difficulty as their religion is far less hierarchical than the RCs.
Report comment to moderator
I would not support the gov’t funding any religions special foster family organization. But Muslims can go through the same process as the rest and stipulate they will take Muslim kids so the Muslim kids would have a place to go. We would be happy to take Muslim kids but I would understand if Muslims did not want their kids in our hands. There are enough Muslims here there and everywhere to get involved in the foster care programs. However, I am not certain that their beliefs encourage such action. I know many Muslim people who love children very much, but that does not necessarily translate into caring for other people’s troubled children. There are an inordinate number of Christian homes though so it is possible the Muslims could look at it either as saving the flock or outreach to the masses.
Report comment to moderator
I have a question, that I would like to see addressed.
On the one hand, it seems to me that this girl has freely chosen to convert to Christianity. The council ought not interfere with that.
On the other hand, what if the situation were reversed – if you were to hear of a 16 year old Christian girl, who while living with a Muslim family, freely chose to convert to Islam?
Would you agree, or would you not, that they had “failed to respect and preserve” her faith? And what, if anything, would you want to see done in that situation?
Report comment to moderator
Royclay,
People choose their own beliefs. The influences around them help with that. It would be expected if a child chose the beliefs of a family caring for him.
If one of my own children were placed in a Muslim home through no choice of my own (taken by the state and placed in a foster home), and said child chose to become a follower of Islam, I would not quibble about it. But I would, upon child’s return to the family, enforce the “whole family goes to church policy”. To make sure the child is making an informed decision not just jumping at every wind of doctrine. The child would be prayed for and hopefully the face of Christ shown through my actions and discussion would be available. But everybody makes these decisions in their lives and so it is.
If I had chosen to place a child in a Muslim home (homestay, foreign exchange, whatever) I would make sure we had saturated said child with knowledge of Christianity and Islam. Knowing the ways of children though, I doubt I would intentionally put one in that situation.
Report comment to moderator
back to topJoin The Conversation
You need to be a registered user of WORLDmag.com's Community section to "join the conversation."
If you are not a member yet, what are you waiting for? Register / Login Now!