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back to top62 Comments to “Whirled Views 6.27”
The person who made this quote never experienced being a robbery victim.
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I expected it to happen, but it happened sooner than I expected.
An article in this morning’s paper says, “Jackson worth more dead than alive”. Cites Elvis’ situation. Not in this article, but I heard one industry man, upon hearing of Presley’s passing, said, “Good career move.” Jackson is reported to be over $400m in debt.
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Freedoms just another word for nothin left to lose,
And nothin aint worth nothin but its free,
Feelin good was easy, lord, when bobby sang the blues,
And buddy, that was good enough for me,
Good enough for me and my bobby mcgee.
That’s Kris Kristtoferson, I believe.
However, the quote that starts today’s thread sounds suspiciously like liberation theology to me.
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From the Friday 6/26/2009 Wall Street Journal, page A15:
http://tinyurl.com/mzrfkw
God and Science Don’t Mix
My practice as a scientist is atheistic. That is to say, when I set up an experiment I assume that no god, angel or devil is going to interfere with its course; and this assumption has been justified by such success as I have achieved in my professional career. I should therefore be intellectually dishonest if I were not also atheistic in the affairs of the world.
– J.B.S. Haldane
“Fact and Faith” (1934)
Last two paragraphs:
Finally, it is worth pointing out that these issues are not purely academic. The current crisis in Iran has laid bare the striking inconsistency between a world built on reason and a world built on religious dogma.
Perhaps the most important contribution an honest assessment of the incompatibility between science and religious doctrine can provide is to make it starkly clear that in human affairs — as well as in the rest of the physical world — reason is the better guide.
My comments:
Religious insanity is out of control on this planet. From Christian extremists yelling at biology teachers in America’s Bible Belt because of their fear of science, to Muslim extremists and their daily suicide bombings so they can go to an imaginary heaven, it’s all nuts and it’s got to stop. All religions, including the idiotic Christian death cult, must be eradicated.
Before you morons invoke 20th century dictators, I would like to remind you this is the 21st century, and our 21st century problems, including two never ending wars we’re in right now, are all religious. Religion has nothing to offer but misery and death. Atheism, also known as reason, offers unlimited human progress.
“A world built on reason” or “a world built on religious dogma” (also known as superstition and fear). That’s our choice. The correct choice is obvious: reason, instead of religious insanity.
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RN @3- Did Kristtoferson write that? I only remember hearing Janice Joplin singing it.
Speaking of Michael Jackson, with the over abundance of media attention does it seem more and more like we are seeing what the ancient satirist Juvenal described as “Bread and Circuses”?
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Kristofferson wrote that.
You people are keeping me from preparing the SS lesson for tomorrow.
I need to have this computer in another room from my office, like it was in Virginia. It’s a big nuisance.
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What’s your SS lesson about, Chas?
Ours is “Experiencing Deliverance” — based on Israel’s Red Sea experience.
When I first read the lesson Monday morning, I was blessed by this.
Disclaimer: I am in the photo, but not the Red Sea. But the Pacific Ocean there along Oregon’s northern coast is symbolic of my Red Sea(s).
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4. Yeah, yelling and daily suicide bombings are the same.
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Mark Roth,
I’ve been wondering, are most of the photos on your blog ones you take yourself? What software do you use to put the words on the photos?
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Has anyone seen Anlir lately? We need to remember to pray for him, as well as Bob. (Fairly reasonable post above, Bob, although calling us “morons” isn’t ideal for a civilized conversation. Still, good progress toward that goal.)
My sister has a tongue-in-cheek comment about where our country is headed: that Obama will take it as far down the road to insolvency and chaos as he can without a drunk Congress finally putting on the brakes, and then he’ll defect to a country of his choice (such as Saudi Arabia) and laugh, “Just kidding, guys!” on his way out the door.
Truly I never thought we’d see this kind of stuff within a single year in this land (the financial chaos and government debt, the energy bill, the hate crimes bill, etc.–our leaders are obviously reading the wrong documents these days). It would be frightening except I’m so “over it.” The last few elections I’ve been praying that God would grant us mercy and not the judgment we deserved. Humanly speaking, I don’t think America will ever recover from this mess . . . but as one of my church’s elders said recently, Christians in America have been living in a “Christian Disneyland” for far too long, and it looks like it is probably about time to see what it really means to be a Christian. I think it’s likely to be a rough ride for everyone, but if God can use it to shake those of us who claim Christianity out of our complacency, and those who don’t into their need for Christ, anything that comes our way is worth it. (I don’t say that lightly. I don’t expect the next decade to be pleasant.)
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The older I get the more I fear that Cheryl just might be right.
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I haven’t seen Anlir for a while. Why should he hang out at this web site?
Kim and Cheryl, I think lots of trouble is coming down the pike. I think we will do most of it to ourselves. We do not to wait for a mythical deity to bring doom on our heads.
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Open Left has an exposé of Palin’s expression of outrage over an Alaska blogger’s Trig photo.
It turns out Palin expressed no outrage at an earlier photoshop picture of her holding David Letterman.
What’s the difference? Reducing Letterman to a Down syndrome baby-in-arms was flattering to Palin. Reducing a conservative talk-show host to the same thing was insulting to Palin and her supporters.
Bottom line: Nobody can believe the Alaska blogger’s photoshop was “an attack against Trig.”
http://www.openleft.com/
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Cheryl and Kim
Very good possibility – Trashing the country first -
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Good comments (#10), Cheryl. I am in general agreement, feeling pretty “over it” as well. I hope the country can find its footing again, but I doubt it will happen overnight or without perhaps a long period of very tough times (and I think we’re seeing the beginnings of that now).
But I’m hoping and praying (and trusting, really) that this period of challenge that lies ahead — for us as individuals, the church and the nation — will be used by God to strengthen us and give us wisdom. As Cheryl said, may we see and experience His mercy in all this and not His judgement.
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I’m afraid Cheryl is right. I don’t think we can stop it, but we do need to be spiritually prepared. As I said last week, I see certain signs that haven’t been apparent in past crises. I’ve already made a comment about the Cap and Trade scam. If you think the housing bubble was bad, wait till the C&T scam festers and breaks open.
Mark, I’m teaching Galatians 5:1-15. A great topic on freedom in Christ verses the bondage of law. As I said a couple of days ago, I found a quote I’m using (5:4 is a difficult verse for we Baptists.), “Faith can turn mechanical and lose it’s very life when interpreted as a mere arrangement, a deal worked out with God, a transaction in which we accept a few facts and believe that some eternal security has been assigned to us.”
Then today, I found an old statement by Ian Thomas, “There are countless Christians fighting a battle that is already lost, trying in their own strength to overcome the subtleties of sin. That is a battle you can fight all your days, but I tell you now, you cannot win. It is a battle already lost, lost in the first Adam, who was made a living soul, and died; but the last Adam, Jesus Christ, has already defeated sin and death and hell, and Satan himself. Why not accept in Him the victory that He has already won. Victory over the flesh is not to be attained – it is to be received.”
I will use that somewhere. I am substitute teaching in a ladies class. I notice ladies in our church don’t question or otherwise participate as much as men. This is different from our church in Virginia. Or maybe they knew me better. I kept a record of the lessons I taught, starting in 1964, as I did my sermons when I thought I was going to be a minister. This is lesson #1154. No matter how long I’ve taught, I find each new lesson takes as much time as the others.
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One of my dear friends who was born in Iran said “he’s a Muslim, everyone knows it” – she is a Christian, born there, into a Christian family – evidently this is not a secret to them but to us – that’s why they danced in the streets last November.
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Yes, most of them I take myself. I use PaintShopPro 7 to resize the original photos and add the text. Thanks for asking.
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Chas
“No matter how long I’ve taught, I find each new lesson takes as much time as the others.”
Thats because you are a good and faithful teacher
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I have to tell all of you I am physically sick and don’t know what to do. I have spent the week with my friends Bob and Malia and their daughter. The girls swam all week and the adults visited and talked. One of the conversations turned to a friend of mine that I have had since I was in the third grade. She has fought an eating disorder most of her life. She tells me she still struggles with it and when some of those little question and answer things pass around on Facebook or where ever and she answers them she has said that she pretty much lives off of sushi and raw carrots. In the course of conversation I was talking about my friends daughter and Malia was floored at what she had named the child. Ana and Mia are names that anorexics and bulimics give their “lifestyle” choice. My friend named her daughter one of these names. I just finished reading some of the Pro-Ana and Pro-Mia websites. They truly are disturbing. It is just making me sick and I have this overwhelming urge to call my friend or her husband or something. I am worried sick. She is about 1,000 miles from me right now so it isn’t as though I can make a quick weekend trip to check on her.
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Kim, you’re as bad as my wife about taking on other people’s problems. There is nothing you can do. Absolutely nothing you can do. I don’t like the fad names (not as bad) that my granddaughter gave her kids, but it’s none of my business.
Just let it go. All you’re doing is making trouble for yourself, and the outcome is the same.
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Chas
You’re right – I played “rescue” with two of my oldest friends for years, nothing worked – They don’t have eating disorders, they have ‘prescription addiction’ it’s a mess – They have isolated themselves in such a way, no one can reach them.
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Chas, I have found much of what Lloyd-Jones says helpful in learning to live by walking in the Spirit, instead of following the law. He talks about us always “reckoning” or holding before ourselves the truth of who we are “in Christ”. It makes quite a difference.
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Kim, You can pray. And, if possible, you can always call or email that you have been thinking about her and hope she is doing well. Sometimes, people need to hear that someone else is concerned.
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Chas,
Sounds like a good lesson. Our pastor has begun a sermon series on the law of God and for the past couple weeks (and again this week) we’ve also been in Galatians 5 (vs. 18-25 in our case).
From a portion of our notes, I liked this paraphrase from Martin Lloyd Jones: “If a preacher is not, once in a while, being a legalist, he must not be preaching the law. And if he is not, once in a while, accused of being anti-nomial (anti-law), he must not be preaching the gospel.”
Law and gospel, God’s people need to hear both. We obey because God has loved us, not to earn God’s love.
Looking ahead to tomorrow’s portion of the notes — focusing on God’s moral law (as opposed to old covenant requirements such as circumcision, which was the context in which the term “under” the law seems to have been used by Paul): One wonderful thing about preaching the law in its full force and seeking to keep it with all our hearts is that it punctuates the stark reality that in God’s sight “no one living is righteous” (Ps. 143:2) and that all have need for a Savior whom God graciously provides in His only Son (John 3:16, 1 John 1:9). Since the law plays such a critical role in the gospel, should it not be approached with fear and reverence?
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#20 Kim and #24 KI,
Kim, KI is absolutely right about praying. Pray for God’s wisdom. Pray to be led to the right answers. Have God open your heart so you can find the depth of research to help overcome the depth of the problem. By all means call your friend. Discuss anything and everything. And yes a thousand miles is a distance to travel but perhaps one visit in the summer could be arranged? Greyhound? I have a friend who is coming literally half way around the world to visit me next weekend. Friends share with friends. They share the good as well as the not so good. They share the love of God.
I am praying for you Kim.
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#4 BobXXXX
Atheism is a myth !
And a Myth is as good as a Mile.
.
..
I gave up atheism for the Holidays.
.
.
It is interesting when pseudo-atheists pretend to be pseudo-scientists. Many real scientists believe in God.
From Einstein
Raffiniert ist der Herrgott, aber boshaft ist er nicht.
.
Whether you can observe a thing or not depends on the theory which you use. It is the theory which decides what can be observed.
If you begin by thinking that God is not part of the equation then you will often fail to find Him. I have felt that God is a part of every experiment from Bunsen burner to beaker to acids to the big explosion.
It can scarcely be denied that the supreme goal of all theory is to make the irreducible basic elements as simple and as few as possible without having to surrender the adequate representation of a single datum of experience.
Again if you do not have God in your notebook , you are missing out.
If Einstein is too “old” for you or too passe, then consider Stephen Hawking. In his short manuscript “A brief history of Time” he mentions God by name thirty eight times at least. Since his manuscript is about a hundred pages long that means he mentions God by name more than once every three pages.
There are many scientists who believe in God.
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BobXXXX continued
The current crisis in Iran has laid bare the striking inconsistency between a world built on reason and a world built on religious dogma.
Where in the history of mankind is there a ‘world built on reason” ?
Atheist commit suicide also. Many of them. Your words”it’s all nuts and it’s got to stop. All religions, including the idiotic Christian death cult, must be eradicated.” sounds a bit like you are the one that is nuts. DO us a favor. Go to your local police department and tell the sergeant on duty the same thing you just wrote. The sergeant should be part of your world built on reason.
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As a follow up to some of the discussion we’ve had with Alex Tokarev on the poor and all: there is an incredibly interesting article in todays WSJ about feeding the poor in Africa. What makes it interesting is not only the type of approach (not the Green Revolution Big Ag approach of North America), but the person doing it: Howard Buffet, son of… uh-huh. Fascinating, even inspiring read about how to solve problems.
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Monty,
From time to time, I have had my differences with Bob/Ed, but you live in a different universe. You are indeed a trip.
Every year on worldmagblog there is at least one participant who far outdoes the typical group of conservative Christians.
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I just wanted to pop in to say good bye. I have finished posting for the time being, but I could not leave without thanking you all. For those of you who have challenged me, engaged me to think a bit harder, or just shared a laugh, I do thank you. Most of you have been gracious, and I have tried to be as well, though admittedly with varying degrees of success. If I have offended any…I hope you get over it… I know I will.
Good bye and be well.
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Sorry to see you go, DJ. May God direct your path. And perhaps here in time.
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DJ,Mumsee said it well. Stop by from time to time.
I’m reading the latest issue of World, about best last lines. I’ve always liked the way the II Maccabees author ended.
“If it is well written and to the point, that is what I wanted; if it is poorly done and mediocre, that is the best I could do.
Just as it is harmful to drink wine alone or water alone, whereas mixing wine with water makes a more pleasant drink that increases delight, so a skillfully composed story delights the ears of those who read the work.
Let this, then, be the end.”
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Friends,
Some words of wisdom from Dr. Gregg Frazer on the difference between “disobedience” and “resistance.” Bottom line, the Bible teaches disobeying government is allowed in limited circumstance. But resistance never is; the Bible categorically forbids resisting whatever government is in charge, no matter how tyrannical.
Neither I nor Dr. [John] MacArthur has EVER said that Romans 13 teaches “unquestioned, complete, and total obedience to whichever civil ruler happens to be in power.” I have clearly distinguished (as does Paul in Titus 3:1, for example) between “obedience” and “subjection” — very different Greek words.
There is one exception to the requirement of “obedience” to government (which is when one is commanded to disobey God — Acts 5:29), but no exception to “subjection” to government (as the universal language in Romans 13 and the record of the rest of Scripture indicate).
So, we teach complete “subjection” to “whichever civil ruler happens to be in power” — which is what Romans 13 says.
“Disobedience” and “resistance” are very different words and concepts — even in a non-biblical sense. Hence the concepts of “civil disobedience” and “resisting arrest.” One is arrested for disobeying the law, but an added offense is resisting arrest because disobedience to a law does not necessarily mean resisting authority. Martin Luther King, for example, saw a distinction between disobeying an unjust law and resisting the authority behind the law. That was the centerpiece of his entire movement.
Being a pastor, you know that Paul, Daniel, Shadrach & friends, and others who disobeyed government when ordered to disobey God did not RESIST the authority — but subjected themselves and took the punishment.
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D.J. – Sorry to see you go. God bless & keep you & yours.
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A public health care option is something that’s caught my interest. There’s a discussion in another thread, but I want to post here excerpts from an article I read in the Denver Post. A Canadian who’s been living in America for 17 years debunks what he calls some myths about the Canadian system:
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#36 JJF
Good night.
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Friends,
Here is a video from a notable evangelical on YouTube who argues against both Arminianism AND Calvinism. He also claims Calvin wasn’t saved, that he was in a state of “spiritual darkness” when he wrote “Institutes.”
http://tinyurl.com/n2nqqz
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I have a prayer request. A member of our church staff was injured in a motorcycle accident and is not doing well. I have worked with his wife in the children’s ministry and their six year old son and ours are friends. They also have a teenage daughter.
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Okay.
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Last week at the beach I read two books. One was Thank You for Smoking by Christopher Buckley. I will definately have to check out some of his other books. The other was Why We Suck by “Dr” Denis Leary. My friend Malia had read it first then I picked it up. We decided that he may claim to be a liberal Democrat from Mass. but he sounds a whole lot like a conservative Southerner to us.
Malia is a published author, she wrote a book called You Can Afford to Stay Home with Your Children. She is working on a science fiction manuscript. Last week there were these horrid pre-historic looking bugs that crawled all over the riff raff (rocks and concrete) that keeps the shoreline from eroding. I suggested she write about a family that goes on vacation to their waterfront house and these things grow large and attack them. She explained that she didn’t write that type of science fiction. The only “science fiction” I read is JD Robb. Everyone else makes the future seem so doomy gloomy/
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Energy issues were discussed in Rants and Raves, but my comments really belong over here.
One of my relatives is the global energy manager for an international high tech company. He’s right in the throes of putting together a major solar project here in California. He has a couple things to say about alternative energy–in part because he’s spent the last four years examining it closely and deals with P,G & E as a customer and in an advisory capacity.
The passed bill requires us to reduce our energy capacity and use alternate forms of energy to do so. Unfortunately, even with government support it will be impossible for CA to match the required percentage–there simply isn’t enough power out there and available to meet the numbers. Our alleged governor wants to put solar projects out in the desert–which sounds good–but the environmentalists won’t allow for the enormous and many transmission lines needed to run the power to where people live. It also would be enormously expensive to purchase the right of ways from countless pieces of property. But it does you not good to produce power if it can’t be transmitted.
Solar power’s highest rating so far is 25% efficiency. His company is working on a project that will use photovoltaic cells to boost it to 35%–if they can get it into production fast enough. Everything on this enormous project he’s working with is being funded by grants and rebates from the government. That’s the only way it pencils out, financially, to be of any worth to the company, and even with all those government incentives, it’s not a sure deal.
I asked, “but won’t it become less expensive once the products begin to made by mass production?”
“No. Also, is it environmentally sound to ask China to make these voltaic cells which are heavy polluters, just so we can have cleaner energy here? It takes a lot of energy to produce the solar cells and you won’t get the equal amount back over the lifetime of the solar cell.”
Hmmmmm.
He believes this bill is how the Obama administration will pay for health care. No one can meet the numbers required in the bill, and so energy companies will be fined for not meeting the targets.
In addition, he feels that IF the government and our nation REALLY were looking for the most energy efficient and cheapest solution they would automatically go to the nuclear power plants. But that’s not what the agenda is, and so nuclear power isn’t even on the table.
Meanwhile, my husband, who of course is a nuclear engineer, was very impressed with France’s nuclear power system when we were there in the spring. They have one template power plant blueprint and they use it everywhere. The nuclear industry in France has had few problems and it now provides something like 75 % of France’s energy needs.
And my husband likes to remind me of how many people have died in nuclear power plant incidents (zero) compared to mining dirty coal (untold numbers).
Like Arcadia, I have seen improvement in the air quality in Los Angeles, and I want my grandchildren to grow up in a clean, healthy place. But we need to confront the energy challenges on many fronts and taxing us into oblivion to pay for an iffy idea–that no one has been able to make commercially viable for years–isn’t the best step forward. And nuclear energy production really needs to be on the table.
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Michelle, I suspect they know all that. I’m afraid the objective is to make the USA a third world country. This will do it. There is no way solar and wind power will work. I’ve already asked three times, and no one has the answer:
1. How many windmills in Texas are required to power Fort Worth and Dallas? (Didn’t you say you saw the vastness of the complex?)
2. How many solar panels?
NOBODY is looking at the numbers.
Same for biofuels. Ethanol takes almost as much energy to create it as it produces. And Ethanol is only about 80% as efficient as gasoline. (And it congeals in the wintertime, making it useless.)
There is no way they don’t know that.
And this “Cap and Trade” scam is just that. The government is creating an artificial commodity. That is, “carbon credits”. Carbon credits are intrinsically worthless, but people are going to put money into them.
I wish Llama were here to explain this. Wall street (or GE, they have a big hand in this) will manage it.
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We’ll find out what’s up when Henry Paulson appoints Goldman Sachs to manage to “Carbon Credits” scam.
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Well said, Michelle.
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Kbells – I have prayed and will continue.
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42. “Malia is a published author, she wrote a book called You Can Afford to Stay Home with Your Children.”
I think I have that book.
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Isn’t this an interesting find?
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See put southerners together and we will find something…She really does need to write about the “wharf roaches”. I don’t know if you have tried any of the recipes in the book but her first husband was a classicly trained chef and she taught herself to cook from his books. She is a fantastic cook.
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Victoria — Why??
The government is creating an artificial commodity. That is, “carbon credits”. Carbon credits are intrinsically worthless, but people are going to put money into them.
commodification is a capitalist instinct. Commodifying carbon is the result of a capitalistic approach to governance.
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Kbells – Prayed for your friend. Let us know what happens.
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HRW – 51
Chas wrote what you are referring to in post 44 -
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#43 That was a very informative post Michelle. When I was in Hawaii in 1991 there was a huge legal battle there raging with environmentalists. Hawaii is on a volcano, so duh, free energy. But the environmentalists hate, I say HATE wires. And so they battled for years about free, green energy because they don’t like wires. I see the environmentalists in CA still hate wires. If you put them underground you don’t have to see them. Still they fight. Insane.
In NH there is a big battle raging with environmentalists about our coal burning plant which powers the state. There is a bill on the table to clean up the output and burn it much more cleanly. But environmentalists are fighting it because it is coal. Same goes for nuclear. It doesn’t matter how green it is; it is nuclear.
When will some brave Democrat speak wisdom to the loons?
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HRW, were you referring to my comment? If so, commodification of nothing at all is not a capatilist instinct. It is capatilistic to take some real commodity, iron, coal, oil, corn, gold, etc. and create a market for it.
If you take a government created commodity you:
1. Take nothing and declare that is worth something.
(Remember, paper money always reverts to it’s intrinsic value.)
2. Creates a scam in which the ruling party can increase or decrease the amount of the commodity available to friends and enemies.
3. Ruin electrical, steel, rubber, and almost all other industries.
4. Send manufacturing industry to China and India, moreso than is already happening.
5. Ruin the travel (hotel, entertatainment, etc.) industry.
6. Bankrupt the auto industry that doesn’t produce cars people don’t want by the alotment of credits.
7. Allow the likes of Al Gore to keep his swimming pool warm and his personal gym cool regardless of what you and I must do.
8. Send the president’s wife shopping in Paris no matter that it takes another plane trip to facilitate that.
9. Etc., ad infinitum.
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memo to Jon Rowe in post 38:
You mention this british man a noted evangelical. Really? I really don’t know who it is, nor do I know any of his credentials. Do you??? I made a small assumption after viewing his diatribe, and have concluded this gent speaking about his own thoughts between Calvinism and Arminism is rather UNinformed. Theologically speaking, he wouldn’t know the difference between Lobster poop and shinola.
Have you any thoughts you want to share about this man, and any credentials he might have?????????????????????
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Jon Rowe @ #34,
“Some words of wisdom from Dr. Gregg Frazer”
Hm…
What exactly are you trying to accomplish by posting Dr. Frazer’s thoughts on this topic? Just wondering…
I forget who, but someone on here said she didn’t think it was possible to be neither an Arminian or a Calvinist, since I consider myself either. (a Carminian, perhaps?) I believe points of both sides of this question are correct…and incorrect…
In the event that someone wants to know my beliefs on the subject, I will gladly share them, but if not, I will not trouble everyone with the details.
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chas: Your first two general points are easily rebutted.
Paper money does have value, as long as people agree that it does. And anything you can trade for paper money also has value. Including the right to “pollute” or not pollute.
And governments, all governments can ALWAYS dramatically affect markets, by taxation, regulation, whatever. That is exactly what the government is doing here. You don’t like it, but there is a lot of other stuff the governemnt does that you don’t like.
The rest is simple hysteria and ad hominem vituperation.
Michelle: I am sure there are many who disagree with your friend about the scalability and energy equations of solar. I don’t know enough, but there is not much that humans make that doesn’t get cheaper as production scales ramp up.
As for nuclear, you read my views. I think, as far as the public is concerned, it is not salable. And disposal is a huge problem. (Incidentally I also think the plants, even now, make great terrorist targets.) And if the US government were to emulate France and mandate a standard design, I can just hear all the free marketeers screaming hysterically about stifling innovation…
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Rio – 57
I am a Believer in Jesus Christ as my Savior, Born Again. I agree with some of the points you make. The idea of being a Calvinist or an Arminian are sad, we are either Christian Believers or we aren’t – Identity is with Christ, not a man!
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Hubby’s says that we are closer to making nuclear energy safe than we are to making green energy work and that we should use nuclear energy to give us more time to make green energy work.
He is smarter than me and very left brained so I don’t know how to defend his theory. But there it is.
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Xion writes: “When will some brave Democrat speak wisdom to the loons?”
Aren’t Democrats and loons about the same?
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#55
Correct, commodification of nothing is not a capitalistic instinct but it is the application of capitalist ideology to governance. Any type of limited licensing combined with the option to sell these licenses is the application of supply/demand to solve a problem.
Instead of subsidizing farmers, Ontario has, for several decades, used this approach to create a living wage for farmers. For example, dairy farmers purchases a quota or right to produce a certain amount of milk. They are allowed to sell their quota or purchase more but there is only a limited amount of production rights. This in turns limits supply and thus allows for increased cost at the retail level. Thus consumers pay a higher price for milk products in Canada than the US but there is no gov’t subsidy (tax money) involved.
A cap and trade policy for carbon production is a similar idea. The difference is nobody is purchasing carbon only the right to pollute.
An other way to view carbon cap and trade is to see it as a fee which encourages industry to limit carbon production and as a fee to pay for the damage caused by carbon.
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