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Sotomayor overturned
The Supreme Court issued an opinion today on a dispute over promotions among firefighters in New Haven Conn., siding with white and Hispanic firefighters. Black firefighters there had uniformly low scores on a promotion test and New Haven, fearing a discrimination lawsuit, tossed out the results and didn’t offer any promotions. Instead, the city got a lawsuit from the white and Hispanic firefighters who said the city was practicing discrimination against them by not awarding their merited promotions.
“Fear of litigation alone cannot justify an employer’s reliance on race to the detriment of individuals who passed the examinations and qualified for promotions,” Justice Anthony Kennedy said in his opinion for the court. He was joined by Chief Justice John Roberts and Justices Samuel Alito, Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas.
The opinion, opposed by most of the high court’s more ideologically liberal members, overturned a lower court’s decision that had the endorsement of Supreme Court-nominee Sonia Sotomayor – who will likely be confirmed as a justice by summer’s end.
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Cleverly done. The impression given is that opposing Sotomayor would somehow change this SC result the next time around. It’s not true.
But…this decision is a major blow to affirmative action. I think its a tragically flawed reading of the Constitution by ideologically flawed justices.
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Every exam I ever took discriminated against me and in favor of the folks who knew the material better, who’d studied more etc.
I think the examination process should be color blind. They should enact a law saying you may not put anything suggestive of your sking pigment.
Since some folks get quite creative with “ethnic heritage names” I’d even say rely on social security last four and post results on a website.
I believe that is done for state bar exams. Law students log in and see either P or F by their name.
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How much longer will it be before we can say “mission accomplished” and have a society which at last has moved beyond all the race clap trap?
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2. That is a good idea. Refusing to acknowledge that the blacks did worse on the test will never allow anyone to find out why and help them to do better next time.
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Sawgunner: When Obama, or any black, latino, or minority can run for office and not immediately be saddled with the burden of running with every other member of that minority who has ever expressed anything his opposition disagrees with.
That would be a good start.
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Justice should be color blind in all cases. Discrimination on the basis of color or ethnicity is simply wrong and this case was clearly discriminatory; promotions in the workplace should be based on merit, ability, reliability, dedication and nothing more.
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Then maybe we can start working on the remaining huge disparities in income and educational level that remain. Just remember that within my lifetime, African Americans, supposedly full equal citizens of this country, could not even apply to a lot of “public” universities, and were forced to attend separate and unequal public elementary and high schools.
Of course with Christians, of all people, desperately claiming to be victims of discrimination these days, all bets are off.
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Conor: Discrimination on the basis of color or ethnicity is simply wrong
BS. Minorities and other groups, notably women, who have historically been discriminated against and suffered severe economic consequences must be given some advantage in order to overcome those economic consequences.
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Arcadia (8): That may be the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever read. Do you back it up with reasons?
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My husband had a similar thing happen to him at work. He studied and studied to pass a test to be given a higher paying job and did very good on the test. Apparently, several others who did not do as well did a lot of crying and the test was scrapped. All those others were given the same job and given the training my husband had to pursue on his own. He was not too happy.
I really don’t remember the specifics and don’t know if it was the union who made a fuss or whether it had anything to do with minorities or women.
If I need a fireman, a surgeon, a car mechanic, I want the best. I really don’t care what color their skin happens to be. We cheat ourselves and others when we discriminate.
All discrimination will not end until Christ returns. I am glad we are not back in the days of the horrible discrimination there has been against many ethnic groups and women at times. To tell people, though, that they cannot ever make the grade without special privilages is demeaning and counter-productive to them.
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Why should New Haven have any compelling interest for their public workforce to reflect the diversity of their community? Just because 38% of New Haven’s population is black is no reason to discriminate against whites. It’s not the whites’ fault that the blacks couldn’t pass the test. If the leadership of New Havens public sector is disproportionally white, that simply means that the Blacks need to try harder. I’m sure Blacks in New Haven have the same quality of schools and the same social and economic opportunities as whites. They just need to get off their butts and study harder.
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CONOR: Discrimination on the basis of color or ethnicity is simply wrong and this case was clearly discriminatory
People who believe this must be disappointed with the majority decision. SCOTUS didn’t say that what New Haven did was unconstitutional. SCUTUS said New Haven could have done what it did if it had better evidence at hand. New Haven lacked strong evidence for its decision to disregard the test, so it violated the statute. SCOTUS did not say that New Haven violated anyone’s constitutional rights.
The majority opinion holds that employment “discrimination” is legal under the statute so long as you have strong, factual evidence to justify it.
Looking at skin color is OK. In fact, failure to do so can be wrong. Blacks don’t score lower on standardized tests because they are lazy and dumb, IMHO. Whites aren’t singularly qualified for advancement because they score higher.
SAWGUNNER #2 proposes anonymous testing. I propose instead that we rank test takers within their own race. I think standardized tests are good for choosing between two whites or between two blacks, but not between a white and a black. At this point in our cultural and social history.
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I have been personally discriminated against, and my ancestors have also been discriminated against. My ethnic/religious heritage has been discriminated through the ages, further literally millions of them were murdered simply because of who they were.
Nevertheless, to turn the tables on their(discriminators) descendants would be just as wrong. There is never any justification for discrimination on the basis of color, gender, religion, or ethnicity.
Therefore your assertion in #8 is utter BS and extremely discriminatory to boot.
True justice MUST be blind.
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Post 3 — Sawgunner, now there’s something that will give the American people some confidence — a conservative declaring “mission accomplished” Oh. Wait. Maybe not.
Ya’ll should read up on New Haven’s fire dept and its history with respect to minorities — doesn’t look so pretty then.
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#14 Coyoteblue,
Let me guess, those racist Yalies declined to extinguish fires occuring at black owned residences and commercial properties?? Wait, New England can’t be racist?! They fought for the union in the war to end slavery.
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So do differing cities within a state have the right to use different exams or no exams to determine who advances in the fire dept? Which city has the best fire dept? What is the measuremt criteria?
If it makes folks feel better, use all the race quotas you want. Its all about assuaging liberal guilt then, yes??
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When Attorney General Eric Holder called the USA “a nation of cowards,” (a few months ago) maybe he was thinking of the New Haven officials who let their fear of a discrimination lawsuit lead them to toss out the test results and withdraw all promises for legitimate promotions. I wonder if Holder would use his “nation of cowards” line to describe the four justices who voted to let that cowardly and unjust New Haven decision stand.
Fortunately, it was overturned and there is still some justice in America.
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“SAWGUNNER #2 proposes anonymous testing. I propose instead that we rank test takers within their own race. I think standardized tests are good for choosing between two whites or between two blacks, but not between a white and a black. At this point in our cultural and social history.”
Thanks but no thanks. Sounds a bit like separate but equal to me. And which test would BHO or Halle Berry take? They literally stand astride ea race, no? How about we fix it where the racial identity of my parents or your parents is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT?
Ward Connerly, book your flight to New Haven pronto!
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“BS. Minorities and other groups, notably women, who have historically been discriminated against and suffered severe economic consequences must be given some advantage in order to overcome those economic consequences.”
Your a racist Arcadia.
Obama worked hard and was handed nothing to achieve the presidency..nor was Oprah, nor was any other minority in this country.
Why would you dare take away their accomplishments, their achievements, their equality?
Shame on you.
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There is also evidence that economics play a role in these test scores, so Scoop moth solution would give poor whites a double handicap.
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Everyone takes the same test, but we should use the results only for selecting between applicants of the same race. Whites score higher than other whites because of their intelligence. They score higher than blacks because of racism. The scores only tell is the smartest whites and the smartest blacks, they don’t predict comparative performance in the future.
Lets feel bad for whites who get rejected because of affirmative action. But let’s also remember that unsuccessful whites are the only ones hurt. Everyone else benefits. Successful white applicants benefit by being associated with an institution that recruits and co-opts talented blacks and the true future meritocracy.
Kristen Halvorson of Rhinelander, Wisc. scored higher than Michelle Robinson of Chicago when they applied to college. Princeton told Kristen no and Michelle yes because the school preferred to admit a black student. Thanks to this discrimination, Princeton now has an magna cum laude alumna in the White House instead of just another upper middle class white person running her family-owned chain of Ace Hardware stores.
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“Whites score higher than other whites because of their intelligence. They score higher than blacks because of racism.”
That makes absolutely no sense what so ever. Woman have been discriminated against and score equal to men. Jews and Asian have been discriminated against and score higher. Why?
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Well, I’ll let the Scroop Moths and the Arcadias be operated on or defended by the people who didn’t pass surgery and the bar.
The Volokh has an extensive post on the opinion. I have not read it yet nor do I have the time right now, but I note two things that they posted: that Ruthie in her dissent pretty much said that Sotomayor didn’t get it right on the lower level and this sentence from Sam Alito was interesting, too: “But “sympathy” is not what petitioners have a right to demand. What they have a right to demand is evenhanded enforcement of the law—of Title VII’s prohibition against discrimination based on race. And that is what, until today’s decision, has been denied them.”
This is where Sotomayor has to sit back and say “what do they know!”
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Kwatson,
Your sarcastic comment in #11 shows that you still don’t get it. Blacks? Whites? What are those? I know of humans.
Appointing or promoting someone, other than the most qualified person regardless of color, would not help anyone, least of all those in need of help or rescue by the firefighters. They ought to have the best firefighting crew possible to help them.
If you want to help low-income people (”blacks” and “whites”), you ought to support the policies that will help them.
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“Everyone takes the same test, but we should use the results only for selecting between applicants of the same race. Whites score higher than other whites because of their intelligence. They score higher than blacks because of racism. The scores only tell is the smartest whites and the smartest blacks, they don’t predict comparative performance in the future.”
Actually the test central to Ricci v. New Haven was designed and tested to be both related to the specific work and racially and ethnically neutral. The independent testing agency had reams of evidence to support the neutrality and job-relatedness of their test and several minority persons involved in its development and administration. A black candidate did very well on it. Not so a couple of Hispanic candidates.
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Conor: There is never any justification for discrimination on the basis of color, gender, religion, or ethnicity.
Therefore your assertion in #8 is utter BS and extremely discriminatory to boot.
True justice MUST be blind.
So allowing the results of injustice constitutes justice?
Incidentally, how do you feel about religious institutions taking state money and then discriminating in employment? Or, for that matter, just discriminating in whom they hire as a janitor?
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NJL: Passing the bar as a prerequisite for posting?
Chicken.
Scroop: Thanks for elucidating the decision a bit better. Not sure that practically the Court’s distinctions will make a difference; the course from here seems fairly clear.
CB: I haven’t looked, but let me guess. The NH fire department featured about a century of heavily Irish-American hiring? Obviously because everybody knows they make the best firefighters?
Whatcha think, Conor?
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Life is unfair. Attempts to right one unfairness often leads to another unfairness. Only God knows what is really fair.
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However, as there probably is no God, that is really unfair.
That’s why theocracies were invented.
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Let’s see, the opinion clocks in at 90 pages. I think it will take time to digest, don’t you all?
NJL is right, there is some excellent commentary at Volokh (and elsewhere).
Meanwhile some of the media pundits have obviously formed their opinions, perhaps even ahead of time (who would ever have thought that?
). Caveat emptor would be my motto, there.
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Sotomayor doesn’t deserve to be a Supreme Justice, she’s racist.
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This is a fascinating commentary on how the left and right view people.
To the left, a person is simply a member of a group, a bean to be counted. If that group was historically disadvantaged then they should now be given special advantages to offset the historical disparity.
To the right, a person is an individual who stands or falls on his own merits. Skin color or class or wealth or any other factor should be ignored.
Racial prejudice or favoritism is racism. Anyone who judges people based on the color of their skin is a racist. By this definition many of the left are racist. Sotomayer is a racist. In this case, racism was overturned. Yeay!
Of course, the Democrats will promptly correct this travesty of justice by appointing a racist on the bench so that the American left can continue its legacy of racism and classism and every other -ism.
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#32 Xion….spot on…….when we discriminate and say that in order to reverse discrimination we must lower the standards then we keep that group of people at a lower standard no matter what. Were we to just write a test that based the results on the correct answer (novel idea) then it doesn’t matter what your race, your sex or any of that matters. When I was enlisted in the Navy we all took the same test and then we were advanced based on our score and our reviews….until 1988 that is….in 1988 a group of female and minority sailors sued the Navy for discrimination because the tests were too hard for them……and when I passed and aced the test in both 1989 and 1990 I was not advanced because I was a white male and in my rating they needed to advance women and minorities into those positions who didn’t come close to scoring or even acing the test. Did I get upset and file suit? Nope, I went out, studied harder, worked harder at my job, aced the test again and because I had won Sailor of the Year for my base I was finally advanced and after I was advanced I refused to re-enlist and when asked why I just pointed to 1989 and 1990 and said by taking away 2 years of my income while being in a posting for the rank I deserved the Navy could either give me 2 years back wages as a re-enlistment bonus or I would leave.
Since 1991 I have been in sales and have achieved a good deal of financial independence because I know my products better, I build very good relationships and I work harder than most people in my industry.
If a minority or a woman were to do the same they would be able to advance.
And as if it matters, I was not raised with a silver spoon, I was diagnosed with dyslexia at an early age but because I believe in a Lord that heals, I do not have dyslexia any longer and I am an avid reader of anything and everything I can get my hands on.
So, get off the whole race card and the whole they weren’t schooled as well because if you want to succeed in this country you can as long as you are willing to work hard and study hard and apply the God given talents you have been given.
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Racism is “so yesterday.”
Today we do homohysteria and Islamahysteria.
Tomorrow it will be the Christian fundamentalist homosexuals against androids and artificial intelligences and the Christian-Islamic front against Martians.
As long as we have enemies all is well with the world.
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Arcadia, we don’t let people who can’t pass the bar loose on the public, we don’t let people who can’t do surgery cut people open and we shouldn’t let people who can’t pass the fireman’s exam loose on the public that thinks golly gee whiz the guy is here to save me. If it were your family member burning, wouldn’t you rather have a guy of WHATEVER color who knows about combustables, etc., at the helm than someone who doesn’t know which is up on a Halligan?
Conor is right about “BS” and so is Itsaboutfreedom. There are very few people who live such perfect, happy lives that they have no obstacles put in their way when it comes to achieving. However, maybe it’s time for some here to take a long hard look at what’s important in life. I wouldn’t trade my life for the lives of some very wealthy and/or highly educated people because they are miserable. And there are some poor people I know who are extremely happy that they have a roof over their head, food on their table and a family that loves them.
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Arcadia wrote: “The NH fire department featured about a century of heavily Irish-American hiring?”
Could be that the Irish were the ones applying for what has historically been a very dangerous and up until recently a very low paying job. The same could be said about the over-representation of Irish police officers in New York and Boston.
“Obviously because everybody knows they make the best firefighters?”
That is an obviously facetious comment and not relevant to the topic. The topic is on promotion or lack of on the basis of ethnicity.
Promotions should be based on merit and nothing more; promotions granted or denied on the basis of ethnicity are without exception racist and unjust.
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XiON: Racial prejudice or favoritism is racism. Anyone who judges people based on the color of their skin is a racist.
XION isn’t playing with all the blocks in his alphabet. Differential treatment is not the same as prejudice and favoritism. Differential treatment restores equity. Colorblindness would be ok if color were irrelevant, but, contrary to what XION claims, cultural conservatives are unable to see color without automatically tending to associate positive or negative characteristics with it. That’s just the way people are in 2009. Differential treatment helps people who deserve help.
XION also ignores the benefit of clearing away the dead wood of phony white entitlement based on obsolete criteria. Demolition isn’t sabotage. The only people that get hurt are those who inherit unfair advantages. The only thing they lose is what came from social injustice. Despite Democrats, resentful whites have only themselves to blame their unhappiness.
If real life was based on standardized tests, then Neal Reagan would have been judged more deserving than his brother Ronald who became president.
Convince me that Negroes are intellectually and morally inferior, and I’ll concede that affirmative action is unnecessary and wrong.
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Conor: You did not answer my question. Is it justice to allow the results of injustice to stand? Xion, same question.
Incidentally, there is huge difference between racism that systematically discriminates against a class erroneously thought to be inferior and what you are currently classifying as racism.
You’re too smart not to know the difference.
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NH designed a test to promote the most qualified fireman. When they were white and hispanice they cancelled the test.
It mattered to them the color not the most qualified!
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“Is it justice to allow the results of injustice to stand? Xion, same question.”
Past injustices cannot be rectified by perpetrating further injustice on the descendants of those who were unjust in the past.
To do so simply perpetuates the cycle of injustice and resentment.
The only rational (and just) path is to level the playing field for those who follow us by allowing everyone an equal opportunity to succeed based upon their individual ability.
The U.S. has come a long way towards achieving this goal over the last forty plus years.
Institutional racism is all but non-existent today. Continuing affirmative action now simply fosters resentment and mistrust in those who it does not favor.
Further affirmative action implies that those who are the recipients of it are somehow unable to succeed on their own merits; a condescending and racist attitude if ever there was one.
The ongoing attempt to rectify past injustice to some by imposing injustice on others is wrongheaded and self defeating.
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#37 Scroop “Convince me that Negroes are intellectually and morally inferior, and I’ll concede that affirmative action is unnecessary and wrong.
It is Affirmative Action that perpetuates the myth that minorities are inferior by stating that they can’t compete on equal ground. It makes them members of a so-called disadvantaged class who can’t get by without artificially skewing the results in their favor. On the contrary, there are plenty of minorities of all skin colors that are the cream of the crop in America. The President of the United States is black for crying out loud. Why must we keep dividing people in to classes rather than uniting us together?
Reverse racism is still racism.
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#38 Arcadia “Is it justice to allow the results of injustice to stand?”
What injustice do you mean specifically? Do you mean slavery? So then 618,000 deaths in the bloodiest war in American history dedicated to addressing that injustice means nothing?
Incidentally, there is huge difference between racism that systematically discriminates against a class erroneously thought to be inferior and what you are currently classifying as racism.
Who am I calling inferior? It is Affirmative Action that perpetuates an inferiority complex and causes the disadvantage they claim to fight. Jesse Jackson makes his living by keeping racism alive. The Democratic party churns out votes by feeding off of the charge of racism, while making skin color the metric of social justice.
The only way to get rid of racism is to get rid of it. Pick a day and stop doling out advantages and disadvantages base on pigmentation.
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It has been nice to have a Supreme Court for a few years that actually considered the Constitution and the rule of law.
Coming up next will be law decided by empathy and fanciful interpretation guided by skin color and political correctness.
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Unfortunately, XION, there are few blacks and latinos who score as well as whites in the highest percentiles of results in standardized tests. The median score of blacks is lower, too. Very few blacks could get into our most selective schools based on achievement tests. Do you know Obama’s scores? Michelle says hers weren’t good enough to get into Princeton without affirmative action.
Despite this gap (which crosses economic status), blacks regularly make sublime achievements in all walks of life.
Incidentally, very few employers still rely heavily on written tests other than police and fire departments, and not many of them. The minority opinion criticized New Haven for not using better alternatives. Of course, the minority also disagreed with the majority that there was no reasonable basis for throwing out the test.
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NJLAWYER: Ruthie in her dissent pretty much said that Sotomayor didn’t get it right . .
I looked at the opinion but couldn’t find such criticism. In fact, the majority sounded fairly non-critical, too. (Canny, since they were creating a new interpretation of the statute.)
One could conclude that SCOTUS affirmed the lower court’s dismissal of the equal protection claim. Isn’t that the most significant result of this decision?
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XION — I got the impression that SCOTUS majority wanted to extend a PR gesture to conservatives in its last ruling of the term, so it delicately upheld white appellants in a situation where very few whites will ever hope to obtain an advantage, because that kind of test has become increasingly obsolete. These whites will get promoted, but few if any other whites are likely to have the opportunity to study and excel in a test of that kind again.
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Conor Past injustices cannot be rectified by perpetrating further injustice on the descendants of those who were unjust in the past.
To do so simply perpetuates the cycle of injustice and resentment.
But they can be rectified by conferring advantages on the disadvantaged descendants of the victims.
And there is no cycle. The vast majority of whites I know acknowledge that past discrimination has disadvantaged blacks and Latinos; they are aware that a few whites, including possibly themselves, may be disadvantaged and have little or no problem with that idea. It does not lead them claim that they are the victims of “racism” or howl “discrimination”.
Xion: Your crude attempt to pretend that institutionalized racial discrimination ended with the civil war is, once again, beneath you, and insulting to the intelligence of most normal humans.
And, of course, you ignore my point that affirmative action and prior acts of discrimination motivated by hate and ignorance are completely different things, and that your attempt to classify both as “racism” is equally deceptive.
You invite me to “pick a day”. I say “not yet”, and every measure of comparative racial incomes, wealth, health, etc I have ever seen makes that point emphatically.
Yes, we are slowly, very slowly developing a black middle class in this country, still fueled largely by governmental and governmentally mandated hiring.
Some of their kids are even going to college now and the pool is enlarging.
But there is still a considerable way to go.
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Sotomayer got it wrong. Her racism stood in the way of good legal work. We can expect her time on Scotus to be filled with even more incompetencies. And we will be saddled with her for a long long time.
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I just went meandering among the posts to see if I could find any racist statements. See if you can see any.
Minorities and other groups, notably women, who have historically been discriminated against and suffered severe economic consequences must be given some advantage in order to overcome those economic consequences. (Yep this is RACIST!)
Blacks don’t score lower on standardized tests because they are lazy and dumb, IMHO.
(Yep RACIST ,also!)
. I propose instead that we rank test takers within their own race. I think standardized tests are good for choosing between two whites or between two blacks, but not between a white and a black. (Definitely RACIST , extremely RACIST!)
Everyone takes the same test, but we should use the results only for selecting between applicants of the same race. Whites score higher than other whites because of their intelligence. They score higher than blacks because of racism. (By Golly This one sure am RACIST, no DOUBT ! ! )
Lets feel bad for whites who get rejected because of affirmative action. But let’s also remember that unsuccessful whites are the only ones hurt. (WOWWEE This one has RACISM dripping all over it. Like slime in a rotting bucket!!!!!)
Differential treatment restores equity. (More RACIST CLAPTRAP !)
The only people that get hurt are those who inherit unfair advantages. The only thing they lose is what came from social injustice. (RACISM BUT ALSO CLASS ENVY!!!)
Very few blacks could get into our most selective schools based on achievement tests.
(RACISM RACISM RACISM. )
I am not saying that the people who wrote these statements are Racists. All I am saying is that the statements themselves are RACIST.
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First question that I want to throw out there:
What could be racially biased about a question like How much feet of hose is used on a standard hook-and-ladder truck? or How often should fire fighters renew their CPR certification??
I’m guessing that the questions were along those lines. How could there be any racial bias in them? Do black people have different answers for them than white people?
My advice to the black people (and others) who did not pass or who got lower marks than others: STUDY! One of the plaintiffs in the case said that he studied several hours every day before taking the test. He even went to the trouble of hiring somebody to read aloud and record the study material because he has a reading disability.
My third question:
The man I mentioned in the previous paragraph is of Italian heritage. He’s just a poor Italian American trying to get ahead in life. Why should he put hours into studying and then be told that he will not get the promotion that he earned with his hard effort?
I doubt that his ancestors were slaveholders.
My second question:
Why do black people score lower on written, standardized tests? They go to our top-notch public schools for free. They should be on an equal footing with every other public high school graduate in America. Right?
To claim that their race makes them unable to pass such tests is, as others have said, a despicable attitude.
My third question:
How long will it be before free housing, free breakfast and lunch at school, food stamps, free job training and guaranteed summer jobs, college grants, automatic acceptance into college and into jobs will finally make people “equal”?
If it worked, then why hasn’t it worked yet?
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The sad thing is that Newhaven isn’t necessarily getting the best company officers for their fire department. They’re getting the guys that do well on multiple guess tests. The design of the test was flawed in that it did not take into sufficient account the applicants leadership skills, their command presence, their interpersonal skills, their management skills, and their tactical skills. So instead of the best leaders, the Supreme Court is ordering New Haven to promote those that can do a good gob of memorizing how many feet of hose are on a tanker truck.
The Irony here is that conservatives are celebrating a new set of hurtles put in place by the Supreme Court that reduces organizations abilities to hire who they want. Conservatives seem to like more government intrusion when it helps the white race.
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FISH – If the speakers aren’t racists, their statements aren’t racist.
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I believe it’s footnote 10, Scroopy.
And if you take the time to review the procedural history here, even her full circuit knew there was something wrong because on their own, they voted the thing en banc.
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I heard a commentator say this morning that there was no way she could have known this was wrong, that the Supremes changed the rules. That was true years ago when my own judge got reversed on affirmative action, but no longer. Add that to the fact that her fellow circuit judges intervened on their own motion, and I’m afraid we have someone who is voting her ideology, not the law.
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My second question: Why do black people score lower on written, standardized tests? . . . To claim that their race makes them unable to pass such tests is, as others have said, a despicable attitude.
I’m glad you ask this question, KYLE A. It’s a fact that more Blacks than Whites commit crime, proportionally. It’s a fact that Blacks score significantly lower than Whites on standardized written tests. These facts may be regrettable (or not), but they are undeniable.
You and I agree that race doesn’t cause this difference in performance. But that doesn’t answer your question. What is the cause?
If a white guy scores low and goes to prison we deduce that he’s dumb and bad. According to this logic, we might be forced to conclude that blacks are disproportionately bad and dumb, which neither of us believes. So, this line of thinking is a dead end. There must be some other explanation than nature for the inferior position of many blacks. Of course, the sensible explanation is that Blacks are subjected to differential treatment and conditions, and these harmful effects have not been corrected.
I’ve got a counter question for conservatives to consider. What’s sacrosanct about a standardized written test? A test is just a tool, and the fact that it doesn’t pick the most talented fire captains means that it’s useless. The fact that a white guy studied real hard to ace it is meaningless, right?
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NJLAWYER – you say stuff to reinforce the right-wing populist misconceptions of this blog but you give bad legal advice.
The entire Second Circuit, all seven judges, denied rehearing the case. That upheld the result that Sotomayor participated in, it didn’t rebuke it. You are factually wrong about this intervention.
The majority upheld the statutory rule of disparate treatment and let stand the dismissal of equal protection claims. The majority did not claim that Sotomayor “got it wrong.” (The court wouldn’t be so imprecise, for one thing.)
The majority provided a new compliance standard that was not in place when Sotomayor got the appeal.
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NJLAWYER — If you take footnote 10 as a criticism of Sotomayor, it’s equally a criticism of the conservative majority. Ginsberg thinks that the majority should have remanded the case if it was unsatisfied with the evidence.
Ginsberg’s footnote no. 10 doesn’t say Sotomayor’s holding was wrong. Ginsberg suggests she wishes that the lower courts had remanded the case to obtain more evidence, which would have established New Haven’s cause as well as the city’s good intent. Ginsberg makes clear that she thinks New Haven had good cause in the record.
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Let’s go back to the basics for a minute. What kind of test was this? Was it to see who had the knowledge necessary to do the job or was it just a genetic intelligence test?
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And did Sotomayor remand? No. Because she decided not on EVIDENCE, she decided based on her own racism and her ideology. Judges should decide on EVIDENCE. As noted above, justice should be blind.
And with respect to this: “which would have established New Haven’s cause as well as the city’s good intent. Ginsberg makes clear that she thinks New Haven had good cause in the record.”
Evidently, the other five, a/k/a the majority, thinks she was wrong on that.
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The majority does not think Sotomayor should have remanded. If you do, NJLAWYER, then your complaint is ultimately against the majority not Sotomayor.
The majority treated Sotomayor and her circuit as a non-event. Justice Kennedy says the state of the law was difficult and required “clarification” to be interpreted as the majority decided. The majority actually came to the defense of the appeals court when Justice Kennedy said the firefighters’ attack on the decision was “overly simplistic and too restrictive.”
The minority also chose not to remand. Ginsburg gives Sotomayor credit for following the precedent of the circuit but expresses some disagreement with that precedent. Ginsburg does not question Sotomayor’s result, however, and explains why New Haven should win.
It’s pretty clear that Sotomayor and her circuit played by the rules but the Supreme Court decided to change the rules.
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Why do black people score lower on written, standardized tests?
Because they know that they don’t have to study and will get promoted anyway.
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I don’t think you believe that. There are lazy Negroes but not enough of them to explain the difference in scores. You can’t study for many aptitude tests, no matter how assiduous you are. Further, students with low scores often outperform academically compared with students with high scores, which refutes the hypothesis that low scores are evidence of laziness.
When you explain Negro traits as moral defects, you start down an ugly path. I can sympathize with your desire to get off the bell curve. But why not just admit racism? Again, I think these are cultural characteristics, and I think that successful test-taking is one of the most trivial and obsolete of all skills.
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