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Good morning!
Today’s quote is from an English clergyman:
“Hypocrisy desires to seem good rather than to be so; honesty desires to be good rather than seem so.”
Welcome to our daily (except Sundays) open thread, where you, the commenters, choose the topics of conversation.
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Good Morning everyone: For those that were waiting for web log that where they could have Biblical Study Resources, I created it yesterday: http://cuttingthesripturestraight.blogspot.com/
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I actually have a closing today!!!!! Yea!!!!
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Hi, JoeB. Glad you posted this! Looking forward to learning something so I can contribute in the discussions we’ve been having here lately — or, at the least, ask intelligent questions.
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I was wondering why religious fanatics have not taken over the world. They are much more energetic and determined than moderate secular people.
I should add that I consider Communists to be atheistic religious fanatics, who also were more determined and energetic than moderate secular people.
One reason may be that religious fanatics spend a lot of time splitting hairs about doctrine. In Christianity, for example, there have been three main branches: Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants, and thousands of denominations. Many of the posts and conversations at World split hairs quite finely.
In Islam, there are Shia and Sunnis, and lots of splinter sects.
Communist spent lots and lots of time interpreting what Marx really meant. For a long time, Russia and China didn’t speak t each other. Then there was Cuba and Yugoslavia and North Korea, and now Venezuela.
Moderate secular people split lots of hairs as well, but we don’t put as much time and energy into splitting people as religious fanatics. Anyway, splitting hairs keeps religious fanatics so occupied so much of the time, they lose concentration and bicker with each other and never seem to finish the job of saving [taking over] the world.
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I just checked the Rants and Raves, and Victoria very kindly offered her raincoat. So far, we’re having a great day with a small chance of a shower, but it doesn’t bode well for the rest of the week — so, I will need it! I do have a raincoat, but it gets in my way. An older co-worker let me have it during a downpour for not wearing it. I have to admit, I still like it when a mother figure gives me mother heck, if you get my drift.
Congrats, Kim!
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Congratulations, Kim. Today it is very important to close the deal. My wife’s best friend’s sister and her husband sold their house and bought a new one, but the sale fell through, so now they are paying for two houses…
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This just in..
WALTER CRONKITE expected to pass soon. And that’s the way it is. Hanoi govt pledges to fly flags at half mast: “This guy was a huge assistance to us in our struggle against the USA!”
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Oooohh their agent didn’t write that the sale of the new home was “contengent upon the SUCCESSFUL sale of their existing home”. It is always one word that will trip you up.
NJLawyer, I am with you on the mother figure. My Aunt Virginia has appointed herself my “parental nagger”. She is the oldest of my aunts and the third oldest in the family. She has alienated the rest of my aunts by trying to be the mother to them. Me? I don’t mind. I haven’t had a mother since around 1986.
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Congratulations Kim!
Sawgunner, Are you serious that Cronkite is sick? He spoke at my son’t graduation at (the real) USC. I began to realize that I was an oddball when I heard that he was the most trusted man in America. I never did trust him. And he was a lot of help to the VietCong.
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While I was working out at the gym, I watched part of the Michael Jackson show from Black Entertainment Network on CNN.
Why was it on CNN? This may have something to do with hypocrisy, which is another thread on worldmagblog today.
Anyway, I found something very disturbing about the show. I felt as if I was observing a bunch of vultures.
They talked about how Michael Jackson, a man who tried to change his physical appearance so he did not look black, opened up some many opportunities for black people. Am I the only person who finds the whole “canonization” of Michael Jackson rather distasteful?
And then there was his father walking around in dark glasses. Is he proud of (allegedly) abusing his child with the goal of (allegedly) turning him and his brothers into superstar meal tickets?
Am I missing something? (Besides not believing in your religion, but that’s another 10,000 comments.)
At least finish all the autop
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Ignore last fragment.
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#7 and #9
At least let him die and be buried first before you start splitting his bones.
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Where’s the Stonewall post? Where’s the PTA post?
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4. It sounds like the problem is not religion vs. secular but fanatic vs. moderate.
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Have any of you heard of the June 8th terror attack on the Gaza border? (scroll down the link for the story) If you do a Google news search for “June 8 attack Gaza” apparently only 4 news sources covered the story… And most of those are not major players. Is UPI a major news outlet?
Why haven’t we heard about this? Was it because it was a failed attempt? Or was it because our news outlets are asleep at the wheel? Or is it because they don’t want us to know that terror organizations are gearing up? Or perhaps our leftist anti-Israel news outlets just don’t care?
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RN @10- Yes, I too am disgusted with the MJ worship. He had talent, but that is about all. His personal life was something out of a nightmare. He was like Peter Pan who never wanted to grow up, thus he created Neverland. Here is a man acting out a childhood he never had, buying everything he could possibly want, except happiness, which can never be purchased. Let his life be a lesson to us all, that happiness is not in what we own, but what we are inside. As one preacher friend says: “Contentment comes from the content of the heart.”
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Kim: Long time between drinks from the well. Enjoy this one.
Random: Ignore the Jackson kerfluffle. It’s going to go on for a long time and signify nothing.
I liked his music a lot, loved his dancing, and really liked his music videos. I spent a couple of hours on Saturday watching a continuous series of the videos on VH1. One thing that I didn’t realize was that he was an extraordinary blues singer at age 9 or so. That part of his talent emerged infrequently later, but one of the videos was a really dark environmental lament dominated by a bluesy theme.
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Yeah, it is annoying when actual journalists actually show up and… what’s it called… investigate stories and call the administration on its lies. Wars could be fought so much better if everyone would just shut up and look the other way, except to cheer when the Applause light blinks on.
The U.S. press during the rush to war in Iraq was such a better model of what a “journalist” should be — just publish the lies that the administration leaked to you and move on to reporting Brangelina’s latest escapades.
It’s called the Joe the Plumber School of Journalism, and sadly Cronkite did not belong to it:
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On June 30th at last most US forces will hand off responsibility for Iraq’s security to Iraqi troops. Too bad W isnt here now to say MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.
Still part of me fears American troops will still have to do the job that Iraqi troops cannot or will not do themselves or do well enough.
Iraq may very well be our very own super dependent on the USA Katrina-stan but as Joel Rosenberg notes Katrinastan has lotsa oil and we’ll be involved in the rebuilding for quite some time.
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JJF, there are a few willing to go and be in the trenches: Kimberly Dozier and Bob whatshisname. They ea had head trauma and could have died but they got evac’d to US troop hospitals.
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#7 and #9: Real classy. :eyeroll:
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A sad and outrageous story:
Frank Lombard, associate director at Duke University’s Global Health Institute (Duke’s Center for Health Policy), has been employed with Duke University since 1999. He has just been placed on leave.
Lombard was recently arrested by the FBI, according to initial reports, and charged with offering up his 5-year-old adopted son for sex. He allegedly admitted to molesting his own son (whom he adopted as an infant), and then inducing a stranger to cross state lines to statutorily rape his already-molested adopted son. In fact, the arrest warrant documents that Lombard sodomized at least one of his two adopted African-American sons.
Will an avalanche of Duke University faculty express their outrage in a signed statement as they did prematurely in the case of the Duke lacrosse players? After all, Lombard is white and his victim is black. However, Lombard is a practicing avowed homosexual who was given full adoption rights. The young vulnerable boys, allegedly horrificly abused, are being raised by a homosexual couple.
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Announcing: Boggle 2
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#22 Joel Mark, Over at Town Hall professor Mike Adams addressed this situation.
Do they fire university folks for the crime/offense of “moral turpitude”??!! I’d say attempting to pimp out a kid is grounds for arrest, much less being let go, put on paid or unpaid admin leave etc etc.
As Mike Adams notes, homosexuals always comment that Jesus never specifically condemned homosexuality. That begs the question if he didnt condemn it, is it then okay? No Jesus quotes against bestiality or incest either, as Professor Adams wryly points out.
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Random – It seems that when a celebrity dies, the media turn him or her into some kind of saint, doesn’t it? Many people do that with the deceased in their own families. One lady I knew could say nothing good about her dad until he died. Before his death she would talk about how mean he was to her. After he died, she talked as if he were always her best buddy.
When you are on hiatus, will you still be reading WMB?
As for “splitting hairs”, I suspect that if you take any group of people, religious or not, fanatical or not, & put them on a blog thread of interest to them, you’d probably find much the same kind of discourse as you see here.
In our real lives, we all are probably quite different in our conversations than we are on here.
At least finish all the autop
*****
Ignore last fragment.
NO!
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#22 So gay men can adopt but they cannot marry? How’d that one get on the books??
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I’m surprised Annette Funicello has lasted as long as she has.
And by the way, it now seems the Feds are going to bail out all the folks to whom MJ owed millions.
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#4 said: ” I was wondering why religious fanatics have not taken over the world. They are much more energetic and determined than moderate secular people”
The reason Christian fanatics haven’t taken over the world is because they are not fanatic enough. If everyone who calls themselves a Christian would love one another as Jesus loved us — just as He commanded, the whole world would be in love with Christians.
But instead, even Jesus stands outside our church doors knocking and we refuse to let Him in. Rev 3:20
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26. Sawgunner, single people can adopt.
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JoelMark: What exactly is your point? You hint at a lot of stuff, but you never seem to state what you think any of this prooves.
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Congratulations Kim!
Boy, NJLawyer, we sure could use some of your rain where I am. It’s dry as a stick and they’re now rationing our water, we can only water outside during certain hours of the week. And on top of that, our water bills are going to go up this summer unless we cut our regular water usage by 15%.
I heard something about a possible El Nino year in California (meaning more rain) come fall and winter, though, so maybe that will help us out.
Joe B., thanks for posting that link. I’ve already given it a look but plan to go back and spend more time.
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Awstart — except Jesus told us they’d hate us.
The cross is an offense, always was, still is.
We should not, however, be adding any of our own offensiveness to that. We should live in a way that models Christ’s love and grace always, loving our neighbor, being “Christ to our neighbor,” as Martin Luther said. We all fall short of that, of course. But that is our calling.
Just got a call from work, all our computers and phone lines are down so we all have to try to work from home today. Now I have to find some story to write. …..
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#26 – “So gay men can adopt but they cannot marry? How’d that one get on the books?”
As Edmund Burke once allegedly said, “All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.”
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Donna, you can write that Irvin Leggett (sp?) was gunned down in Morocco (see thread “Gunned Down”), and AP report that has been entirely ignored by the media because of Farrah and Michael.
You might even call his pastor in Cleveland, Tenn. for material.
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AWSTAR wrote; “If everyone who calls themselves a Christian would love one another as Jesus loved us — just as He commanded, the whole world would be in love with Christians.”
I could not disagree with you more!!! This is religious utopian fantasy, in my view. I think you may have forgotten what happened to Jesus in the gospels and forgotten the realities of human nature to this day.
And AWSTAR, if you go to a church that keeps Jesus (who is the head of His church) outside, leave it as fast as you can!!! It’s NOT a church. But don’t run from an imperfect church. All of them are flawed! Real churches may be very imperfect and filled with sinners, but that’s just why Jesus died for her.
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There are prayers and then there are prayers.
Fitzmaurice then turned to Madoff — whose back is to his victims — and said: “Madoff, your sons despise you, your marriage is one from hell. May God spare you no mercy.”
Another victim alluded to Dante’s “Inferno” and its three-headed devil, saying: “I hope Satan can grow a fourth mouth for Madoff.”
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AWSTAR, being hated by the world may actually be a sign that a Christian or a church is faithful and real (though it depends on the various factors involved and the particular context for the hatred).
Consider these Scripture passages in context:
* “This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.” John 3:19-20
* “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.” John 15:18-19.
* >i?“Do not be surprised, my brothers, if the world hates you.” 1 John 3:13.
______________
These passages do not make “being hated” a test of faith either way. But they do tell us not to be surprised when we are hated.
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Donna, isn’t Oregon going to start shipping water to Saudi Arabia? I know the story’s been done, but is there a local angle? (Could they sell to your area instead?) Could you combine it with El Nino? Compare El Nino years to current years? Just thinking out loud.
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I see where the 71 year Madoff got 150 years. At least they didn’t give him life.
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Hey, thanks for the story ideas — local angle is the key, of course, but with some creative thinking …. Oregon is sending water to Saudi Arabia? That does seem odd with the water shortage right on their own coast.
Ah, looks like our office is up and running again, I’ll be heading in after all. Probably wind up working on the other story I’d planned for today, the longshore union’s upcoming 75th annual “bloody thursday” celebration this week.
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John 16:33 “I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”
Joel Mark, I agree with what you are saying about the world hating Christians, but it seems to me things could have turned out differently if Christians had continued to live in the Spirit after the era of persecution as the early church lived during its persecution. But instead, once the persecution stopped, the church adulterated itself with the things of the world, and their demise came from within, not from attacks from the outside. Just as it happened to Israel.
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Make It Man,
Probably one of the reasons that the ‘major attack’ was overlooked was due to the small number of Palestinians involved. The West in general cannot see ten people as a major number.
United Press International(UPI) used to be a major player in the NEws biz. Until they were bought by the Unification Church and “Rev.” Sun Myung Moon. Many of their better reporters resigned after the sale leaving AP as the sole major player in the US. The Associated Press is in the tank for liberal causes and Obama. AP is often referred to now as AP OBAMA (APO).
The AP is so biased that nothing they write can be relied upon.
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# 22
Indeed a sad story.
And of course, as every good christian knows, all homosexuals are pedophiles, isn’t that right Joel Mark?
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I solved my problem, Chas. I bought a cheapie little machine that has a plastic box in it which I empty periodically. I swiffer a lot, too.
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4. It sounds like the problem is not religion vs. secular but fanatic vs. moderate. KBells
I tend to agree with you in this regard, K Bells. Of course, people who opposed Hitler very strongly or opposed Stalin very strongly probably became very fanatic about the topic.
As the British writer E. M. Forster wrote, “Two Cheers for Democracy.”
http://www.geocities.com/dspichtinger/otexts/believe.html
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Guessing for the quote.
Dr. Martin Llyod Jones…pure guess though…
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Once a week I assist a group of volunteers (all except me, Christians) with their “wood ministry”). The cut and split wood to donate to elderly people and people having runs of misfortune such as losing a job or illness for heating. After our sessions we sit around the church, drink coffee, and chat.
My neighbor and his wife worked for the Boy Scouts all his life. Somehow, we got into a session about sexual molesters at one of these after wood splitting (as opposed to hair splitting) sessions. I talked about how one of my sisters was a victim of statutory rape and became pregant as a result. Although she never married, she kept the child (after some discussion of abortion) and raised her daughter as a single mother.
Also, when I was a high school teacher, a student blurted to me that her stepfather was raping her. I guided her to the school nurse, who got her to report the crime. Eventually, rather than face the trauma of testifying, the victim ran away from home.
The Friendly Neighbor said that he had in his career with the Boy Scouts he had had to deal with Scout leaders and other people involved with Scouting who came under suspicion of molesting youth.(Given the nature of the Boy Scouts, I presume this referred to adult men molesting boys and young men.)
He said in some cases it was very difficult to know the truth, but if there was substantial doubt he always felt he had ensure that the person under suspicion was removed from contact with boys and young men to the extent it was under his authority to do so. This sounds quite sensible to me.
When we first met the Friendly Neighbors my wife and I were a little cautious about explaining our daughter’s domestic situation. We never apologize for my daughter, her partner, and their child, but we don’t jump into throwing it in people’s faces to make a point. (To some extent, I could be reasonably accused of doing so on worldmagblog, though. However, in non-virtual life I am a little more reticent about doing so.)
In any case, the Friendly Neighbors explained to us that they are not prejudiced against homosexuals, and as they have had my daughter, partner, and granddaughter over at their house several times, I would accept that they are sincere in this regard and “walk their talk.”
Over five years of reading worldmagblog I have read a number of comments stating or implying that male homosexuals are by nature child molesters more than any category of sexually active adult males. I am not sure that all the conservative Christians who read this web site share that opinion, but most strike me as quite willing to let such allegations fly by without arguing with them.
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Messages #22 and #24 strike me as falling into this type of message, the subgroup that works more by implication than making a straight-out generalization. In Joel Mark’s case, I suggest that if he is making such an implication, he have the courage to come out and state it flatly and baldly.
I very much doubt it is true that male homosexuals as a group are more likely to molest children than any other group of sexually active adult men. In any case, a generalization such as this would be very difficult to prove one way or another, and I suggest that people unless they have convincing evidence should avoid making or implying such allegations.
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#25 KarenO
When you are on hiatus, will you still be reading WMB.
I appreciate your asking Karen. (We narcissistic people appreciate people paying attention to us.)
However, my blood pressure readings have been quite good of late. I don’t think I should engage in activities, such as reading Joel Mark’s comments today, that might change that happy state of affairs. I have noticed among my Christian friends and neighbors who attend church, that they often take some care what church they attend. For us secular people who are not hostile to Christians in general, it is still probably a good idea to take some care in which Christians I hang out with.
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Random – So then, only read comments by the people you like. That wouldn’t leave a lot to read, would it?
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#27 Sawgunner,
last time I saw Annette Funicello was back in 2008. She wasn’t doing too well. She was in her wheel chair. Her eyesight was gone but she could still recognize my voice.
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#23 Mark Roth, I wrote out a list of sixty words from the Boggle on the back of an envelope. What do I do with them? And frustratingly I have thought of ten more words since then.
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Donna #40, I mis-remembered, but had the essentials correct. It’s Aberdeen, WA, wanting to ship water to Qatar. http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/kplu/news.newsmain/article/1/0/1522525/KPLU.Local.News/Aberdeen.to.Ship.Water.to.the.Middle.East (and shorter, slightly different details here http://www.seattlepi.com/local/6420ap_wa_aberdeen_water.html?source=mypi).
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46. So the problem is really people like vs. people you don’t like.
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That should be “people you like vs. people you don’t like.
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KBells #55, I thought we were getting into a “Valley Girl” way of speaking.
“So, your honor, I was sorta thinking about this ‘People, like, versus People’, you know?”
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44 Duncan,
I believe the point in 22 (Joel Mark ) is that even though his crime is far more egregious than the crime that the team was accused of, Frank Lombard’s ’status’ as an avowed homosexual will guard him from the outrage of the Duke faculty. Thus proving the double standard if not hypocrisy of the Duke faculty.
No one has said that all homosexuals are child molesters.
.
The Duke faculty’s ad showed what true morons Duke has for Faculty. For a list of the idiots The gang of 88
I can call them idiots because I can dissect their open letters to the Duke community and show that what they wrote is antithetical to what their stated desire was. The Duke faculty involved should be immediately fired in my humble opinion.
Interesting it is that the prosecutor in the case, Mark Nifong was ordered disbarred after the North Carolina Bar Association’s three-member disciplinary panel unanimously found him guilty of fraud, dishonesty, deceit or misrepresentation; of making false statements of material fact before a judge; of making false statements of material fact before bar investigators, and of lying about withholding exculpatory DNA evidence.
Crystal Gail Mangum has now been graduated from North Carolina Central University despite her false accusations. (None of the multitudinous semen samples taken from her body proved to be from any Lacrosse player.)
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AWSTAR, #41, wrote; “…things could have turned out differently if Christians had continued to live in the Spirit after the era of persecution as the early church lived during its persecution.”
Hmmm. AWSTAR, many Christians did indeed continue to live in the Spirit after the era of persecution. But, of course, not all did. But what else is new? Even in the days of the earliest Christian, NOT ALL lived in the Spirit either. In both eras, it was a mixed bag.
AWSTAR wrote; “…once the persecution stopped, the church adulterated itself with the things of the world…”
Actually, I don’t think the era of persecution ever ended. The problem of adulterizing was often as true in the first century as the second, the third and so on and on. But the gates of hell (as Jesus promisted) have not prevailed against His church. There has always been decent faithful Christians too, and they are the ones that the world seems to hate the most (in many cases at least).
Perhaps we agree a lot but I am having trouble nailing down what you mean.
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#51 My main criteria for whether or not I read what people have to say is not based on whether I “like them” or “don’t like them.” To use one of NJL’s favorite snipes, that is condescending. We don’t really know each other as we only interact by posting messeges on line, but I would think you would know by now that I read and consider a variety of points of view and ideas. I think you do as well.
However, in general, I think a lot of what is posted here is quite repetitive and a lot of of what is posted here is quite out of touch with reality and a lot of what is posted here is quite offensive. At some point even some one as dense as I am, says to myself: three out of three…I think that’s a hint.
Who was the television informercial guy who just got hit on the head recently and died shortly afterwards?
Here we go:
An autopsy in Tampa shows television pitchman Billy Mays died from heart-related problems, not head trauma.
Mays, 50, was on a US Airways flight Saturday from Philadelphia to Tampa. The flight had a rough landing and Mays had told a reporter in Florida before his death he had bumped his head. Mays was found dead in his Tampa home Sunday. There was speculation that his death may have been linked to the rough landing.
Well, perhaps I don’t need to bump my head to take a hint that I might make better use of my time than reading the ravings of a bunch of religius fanatics who believe they will live after they die. As religious fanatics go, you and KBells are quite nice religious fanatics, but still, as the saying goes:
You can take the boy (or girl as the case may be) out of the country but you can’t take the religious fanatic out of the boy or girl, no matter how nice they are.
Also, I am a skeptic as well as an agnostic. I thought the bump on the head might have done Mays in. Perhaps if he had done infomercials for treadmills and home gyms and vitamins and health foods he might still be infomercing away. On the other hand, that big Hand in the Sky might reach down and say, “Random My Boy, the people at worldmagblog warned you over and over with hearts full of love and now I’m going to toss you down to the big pit of boiling oil and poking demons down in the bowels of Hell, because you just lost Pascal’s Wager and I taking your chips.”
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No one has said that all homosexuals are child molesters.
Maybe not Monty, and unfortunately I don’t keep thousands of nasty homohysterical messages on my hard drive, but I have read comments from people alleging that many homosexuals (much higher than typical adult males) are child molesters and few other (if any) conservative Christians at worldmagblog would publically disagree.
If this attitude is changing at worldmagblog, I am glad to know that you are no longer beating your wife (or boy friend, as the case may be).
For that matter, you might want to have a little chat with a fellow named Joel Mark on the topic.
As for Duke University, if they done wrong, they should be severely punished. I never went to Duke University; I never cheered for or against a Duke lacrosse team; as I say about Islamd, I don’t have a horse in that race.
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One of the traits and habits I find irritating at worldmagblog is the “heads we win and tails you lose” attitude so often displayed.
We are right and you are wrong about sexual morality and about politics and about economics and about a thousand other topics.
Of course, we are wrong once in a while (when we get caught with pants down or hand in the till or wherever our pants shouldn’t be or hand shouldn’t be, but still we are more worthy of deciding stuff than everybody else, because we “fallen” but we also “know” the truth.
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There has always been decent faithful Christians too, and they are the ones that the world seems to hate the most (in many cases at least).
It’s one thing to be tortured and killed, as some Christians have, and as indeed some Christians have done to others.
But as far as martyrdom and suffering and persecution goes, Joel have you ever suffered anything more grievous than reading comments on line from people who do not think your comments make much sense?
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I hope to spend my dotage arrogantly sniping on a website owned and frequented by people with whom I disagree utterly, showing my backside to complete strangers.
Of course, the idea wasn’t originally mine….
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Yes!
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Chas, when you think about how many people Madoff hurt, if they gave him one year for each, it would surpass 150 years! I hate to say it, but Madoff has actually gotten off quite easy. He has destroyed many lives, he lived high on the hog for a very long time, but mostly he knew this was wrong. He didn’t just take from wealthy people, he took from widows trying to enhance the assets they had and from friends. It is sad that he will die in prison, it’s not a nice way to go, but he brought this on himself. I don’t feel sorry for him, and if the wife and sons are in on it, they should go to prison, too. What a family — no one showed up for him.
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Montyfish,
You did get my point. Thanks for stating it fairly.
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NJL,
I’m not sure but I think this is what Chas meant by his comment about Madoff. I don’t think the sentence is too harsh. I just think the “150 years” thing is kind of funny/wierd; it’s not like he’s going to live that long. Might as well just say “life.”
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On vac cleaners (note the unwillingness to attempt to spell the vac word): I just use a shop vac. Works great and easy to clean.
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Random – I also do not believe that homosexuals are more likely to be molesters.
I don’t beat my husband (he’s big & strong, & I’m a wimp).
I don’t even kick my cats.
Though, when Peanut was a little kitten, she fell down the stairs as I was standing at the top. She then ran furiously up the stairs & bit my ankle, as if it was my fault!
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NJL & Matt. Weird is the word. 71 Years old 150 years. 25 years would do the same thing. I remember an arguement I had with a lawyer in Virginia once, NJL. You may remember the details, I don’t, but once a guy committed some crime on a subway. The guy made minimum wage. He was fined something like $4,750,300.00. I say, WHY NOT $5.m.? This guy isn’t going to pay the $750k part. The entire thing is rediculous.
There was just an argument on FoxNews about his sentence. He did a terrible thing & I don’t care what happens to Madoff. I just think it’s silly.
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Mumsee, that is a good idea. I have a wet/dry shop vacuum, but you have to roll it around, and she won’t use it. The upright is really best for us.
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Joel Mark, then why the implication? You have made it several times. So let me ask you flat out: Do you, Joel Mark beleive that homosexuals are more likely to be pedophiles, or are all pedophiles or not?
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How do we punish bad people? Madeoff, for example.
If a bad person truly understood what he had done that was bad that might be punished enough. If he doesn’t, what good is it?
We want punishment to deter. For some it does. That’s crude but it has some effect and usefulness.
Some believers came up with ideas such as Heaven and Hell, which strike me as absurd and full of contradictions.
#70 Karen strikes me as a good person. She doesn’t do bad things not because of fearing punishment, nor does she do good things because she hopes for a reward, I am guessing. I think this is probably true for quite a few reading this. I think some of you are more sophisticated than your belief system. However, I don’t have a more sophisticated belief system to sell to you, so I guess you will have to muddle through with the one you have, no matter how muddled it is.
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#73 Exactly.
I am not sure Joel Mark really thinks through the implications of many of the things he says.
I suppose a great light dawning on him some day would be punishment enough.
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A couple of excerpts from Governor Sanford’s letter today to his supporters. He seems to me be busily forgiving himself with great alacrity.
So in the aftermath of this failure I want to not only apologize, but to commit to growing personally and spiritually. Immediately after all this unfolded last week I had thought I would resign – as I believe in the military model of leadership and when trust of any form is broken one lays down the sword. A long list of close friends have suggested otherwise – that for God to really work in my life I shouldn’t be getting off so lightly…
Their belief was that if I walked in with a real spirit of humility then this last legislative term could well be our most productive one – and that outside this term, I would ultimately be a better person and of more service in whatever doors God opened next in life if I stuck around to learn lessons rather than running and hiding down at the farm…
Accordingly, they suggested that there was a very different life script that would be lived and learned by our boys, and thousands like them, if this story simply ended with scandal and then the end of office – versus a fall from grace and then renewal and rebuilding and growth in its aftermath.
I especially don’t know about that last one. I spent an awful lot of time telling my kids that breaking rules had…what do you call those things…oh yeah…consequences.
Even for somebody who certainly seems to consider himself a personal tool of his god.
Random mentioned the “heads I win, tails you lose” Christian arguments. This would seem to this country bumpkin to be exhibit 1.
But maybe that’s just cynical ole me.
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Pick five them to post as a comment here: Boggle 2
Just be sure to post five that haven’t been given already.
Thanks!
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I’m beginning to think montyfisher is llama in disguise. He now uses “moron” instead of “whacko”.
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Joel Mark #59 “Perhaps we agree a lot but I am having trouble nailing down what you mean.”
I think we agree on what actually happened during the age of grace, but my original comment had to do with what COULD of happened. What would the world be like if Adam had not sinned? What would the world be like if man had repented when Noah preached judgement? What would the world be like if Israel had done all that Moses told them? What would the world be like if Israel had accepted Jesus as Messiah? What would the world be like if every Christian loved one another as Christ loved us? The world will know us by our love. — not so much these days.
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AWSTAR, You present a lot of possible scenarios and each has it’s particurlar outcome. Anything we might say is pure speculation and entire novels could be written for each scenario.
However, I will take a hack at one in outline form.
If Adam (& EVE) hadn’t sinned, I speculate that they would have reproduced a race of men (presuming none of them sinned) that would eventually move out of the garden and into the evil world outside it. Not being sinful, they would necessarily have transformed that world. This is far fetched, however, because Satan is still in the world. And his thing is death and destruction. Violence permeates his world.
We concern ourselves with the salvation of mankind. What God is doing is getting back his creation. (Romans 8:19-22)
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DUNCAN asked; “Do you, Joel Mark beleive that homosexuals are more likely to be pedophiles, or are all pedophiles or not?”
I believe the obvious, namely that avowed proud male homosexuals are more likely to abuse young boys than heterosexual men are. But pedophiles can be either homosexual or heterosexual inclined and both should find zero toleration in our culture and have zero opportunities with children.
That’s why it is obvious that the freedom Boy Scouts to ban homosexual scoutmasters should be respected. Just as we don’t choose heterosexual men to take groups of young girls out on overnight trips all by themselves, we also don’t choose homosexual males to take young boys out on overnight trips all by themselves (this is what scoutmasters so often do). In neither case do we necessarily presume them to be criminal, but we do what is proper and we don’t put young children in vulnerable or awkward situations.
Yet, the homosexualist militants tried to FORCE their will on the Scouts disrespecting their freedom. We must protect our children at all costs and disregard the political opposition that comes our way as a result.
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It is also my observation that a high proportion of homosexuals were themselves victims of abuse or molestation or rape by older homosexuals when they were young. It may well be that most homosexuals do not do this, but a minority of them may do this to multiple victimes. This is often denied on this blog, but it is a huge problem and I have read of many objective studies that confirm this problem. And for those who distrust my motives, let me say that this point of view comes with a profound amounnt of sympathy for the victims and consternation for the victimizers.
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Thank you for your reply, AWSTAR. With respect, I think your point is rather utopian on the Christian side. “If” is not reality. What WOULD have happened, is purely academic. Jesus’s life, death and resurrection actually happened and so did our sin that made it necessary. We agree on that. Even after the cross in the age of grace, we are still like the children of Israel, often disobedient and unfaithful. But the great part is that God has not given up on us and the plan of salvation still applies to those who repent.
You wrote; “What would the world be like if every Christian loved one another as Christ loved us? The world will know us by our love. — not so much these days.”
Again, I say, the world knew Jesus by his love and still killed him.
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Joel Mark #83 “What WOULD have happened, is purely academic.”
But if it was what God desired to happen, it’s not academic. It’s the only reality. Up until the age of grace, man had no where with all to do what God desired. But every soul who is in Christ has the gift of the Holy Spirit, who — if we allowed to guide us in what God desires as we reckoned our own desires to be crucified with Christ — could actually do what God desires. But as you say — that is pretty much academic now. The age of the Gentiles must be getting close to coming to a close, by the looks of the sky these days.
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NJL – 5
Mother figure? LOL – loaning you my coat and that’s what I get – No NJL, it’s the older ones who forget their coats along with small children, if you get MY drift – - – as you said…. “I have to admit, I still like it when a mother figure gives me mother heck, if you get my drift.”
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