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Supreme Court won’t hear Bible club case
The Kent School District blocked the formation of a Bible club in a Washington high school, and the Supreme Court has decided not to hear the case, letting the ban of the club continue.
The club is not allowed to become an official school club without being chartered by the Associated Student Body Council. Back in 2001, the club applied for a charter and was put on hold because the Council wasn’t sure about its plan to decorate the school once a month or broadcast Scripture over the school loudspeaker.
In 2003, the club threatened litigation, dropped the plan to decorate the school and broadcast Scripture and decided to restrict voting membership to professing Christians. The Council still voted against it, so the club proposed a third charter. This one divided members up into three categories: attendees, non-voting members, and voting members (who have to sign a statement of faith). The council voted 19 to 0 not to approve the charter.
The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled against the students and the Supreme Court has not heard the case, letting the court’s opinion stand.
Even with this outcome, says the winning attorney, the Bible club can still exist in the school and meet on school property. It just can’t become an official student organization and have access to student government money.
This raises a question: Since the Bible club could still meet without being an official student club, why or why not is it important for the club to seek to become an official student organization? And was the Circuit Court of Appeals right or wrong?
back to top29 Comments to “Supreme Court won’t hear Bible club case”
why or why not is it important for the club to seek to become an official student organization?
Clearly they want more than mere access – they want approval, so they can convert others to their perverted lifestyle.
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It’s a shame when Christians demand they become an approved organization/club on campus –
I can’t imagine Jesus doing such a thing, HE preached the way to Eternal Life through believing on HIM as Savior –
The young people involved are most likely trying to spread the Word of God, but instead are causing a fight – what difference does it make whether they are an approved club or not – the APPROVAL is of GOD, it doesn’t come from the school district.
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#1 wrote; “Clearly they want more than mere access – they want approval…”
Yeah, like all the other various student organizations that they DO willingly recognize.
__________
That sounds like an exclusivist, intolerant judgmentalist, dogmatic, imbalanced, autocratic and disrespectful School Council. But still, the Christian organization may be better off without their “approval.”
One more thing, it is impossible to “convert” anyone to Christianity without their full and willing agreement and consent. At one time, respecting the freedom of religious expression and the free consent of those who hear it was part of the American dream. No longer, I guess.
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Well, I see Spinny’s liver is acting up again.
I have to agree with Victoria — the students shouldn’t be doing this, it’s not the way to spread the Gospel. They don’t need school money to succeed.
I am shocked that I agree with the 9th Circuit, but I think this is the proper balance. The school can’t endorse a specific religion, and if this were allowed for all religions — and it would have to be, then the decorating alone would become a problem in this school.
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Spinoza- You may disagree with Christianity, but “perverted lifestyle” is not going to win you any agreement from the majority here. Most definitions of “perverted” say it is a turning away from what’s considered right, or something wicked. So, how is wanting to have a Bible club “perverted”?
As to the topic- Let the group meet and each member do his/her part to live according to the Bible. Then the other students will see the way true Christians are and perhaps another vote would give them the recognition they desire.
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I am not sure “approval” is needed but perhaps legitimacy or permanency as well as access. Why treat this club any different than any other (such as a GLBT group or young Democrats or Communists or Libertarians or Allah club)? Because of a mis-reading of the Constitution?
I disagree with 9th Circuit in that the club had changed their charter. This is a very broad interpretation of the establishment clause, especially since it is either state or local funds that would be used and not federal funds (the Constitution does not forbit a state to establish a religion, only Congress – the federal government). Also, allowing is not endorsing anymore than allowing Pepsi to have a sign on the football field is an endorsement of Pepsi over Coke or RC cola.
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Hey I used to lead those on-campus bible studies – on both high school and college campuses. But we never sought “official” sanction. But I finally saw the light and turned away from darkness to light. Praise the Lord.
Anyway, lighten up folks, I was just pointing out the similarity between the essence of Alyssa’s question and a similar one raised on gay threads. Perhaps that wasn’t so obvious.
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“So, how is wanting to have a Bible club “perverted”?”
It’s so tempting to answer that, but since I was being “sarcastic” I won’t.
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I would expect an “official” club to have a faculty advisor in order to oversee club activities and make sure funds were spent appropriately. I don’t know how the clubs in my high school were authorized or where their operating funds came from (I remember having a car wash for French club to fund our activities), but all the ones I was in that were school-sponsored had a faculty advisor.
A Bible club would do best to be student-led and receive no school funding, so that it can focus on its mission and not with issues like whether it’s appropriate for it to receive student government funding. What does a Bible club need funding for anyway? We had a Bible club in my high school, purely student led, meeting on school property but not during school hours, and it cost nothing but our time and our willingness to be known as those kids who read the Bible and prayed in the cafeteria before school. (The principal at one point tried to disband us, saying we should be having religious activities on school property, but our leader met with him and convinced him there was no good reason to stop us from talking among ourselves on our own time about what interested us.)
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And the Ninth Circuit is endorsing the type of Bible club that Pauline is talking about.
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In attempting to keep y’all Perpetually Aggrieved©, Alisa fails to note the most pertinent part of the story:
These misguided Christian kids seek to discriminate against people of other faiths, which they may not do. Sanctioned clubs have to be open to everyone.
“It cited the group’s name and the fact that students would have to pledge to Jesus Christ to vote in the club.
The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said the district did not violate the students’ First Amendment rights by requiring them to allow all students full membership in their club.
The school district says all official student groups must be open to all, without requiring a religious membership pledge or adherence to a Christian code of conduct as the Truth Bible Club was proposing for its voting members.”
Back to my spider hole.
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If Christians want to meet one another as a Christian group it’s best not to involve state, government, school boards, school personnel – Go about your gatherings as the disciples did, don’t think the world is going to embrace Christ, the vast majority will only try to shut down what you’re trying to build up – you’re wasting precious time bickering –
Organizing a Christian club, trying to integrate it into a school setting won’t help those who are trying to spread GOD’s Word.
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#2, Victoria asked, “what difference does it make whether they are an approved club or not…”
I agree with Victoria’s comments for the most part and I don’t think I would have encouraged those kids to make a big case out of this one. But I also think I do disagree with the 9th Circuit Court’s decision.
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Spinoza: I might suggest that any group with an obsession with genitalia and what people do with their genitalia warrants that description. But I won’t.
But I will say that what with all the foreskins, buttocks testicles, “members”, breasts, wombs and sundry parts flying about,not to mention the harlots, concubines and whores the holy book should rightly be banned in most libraries.
I don’t have this capability; can anyone do a word count on “testicles” in the bible?
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With all due respect,
We must render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s. And I extend that to the idea that when Caesar needs rending, that rending should be rendered.
Having spent the time to read the judge’s writing in the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, I can clearly see where the court decided that whereas the ASB denied the charter due to the club not complying with the antidiscrimination policy, the fact that they gave waivers to other clubs to be exempt from the antidiscrimination policy is a point in TRUTH’s favor. All TRUTH has to show is that the ASB refused the waiver based on the religious content of the club. The court reversed the summary judgment and remanded the case for further proceedings.
It seems clear from what has been presented that indeed the club was denied that waiver based on religious content.. And as such the club has a legitimate claim.
Many details are missing but I would assume that the club still met. It was just hamstrung by the lack of proper recognition.
There are many reasons for the Supreme Court not to hear a case. One of the big ones is that not all of the lower court proceedings have been completed or exhausted. So it may simply be that it was brought before the Supreme Court prematurely. I have not found the reason that the Court decided not to hear the case at this time.
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If Christians want to meet one another as a Christian group it’s best not to involve state, government, school boards, school personnel
Respectfully I disagree. I don’t think Christians should allow state, government, school boards, and school personnel to become God forsaken.
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#14, hmmmmmmmmmm Arcadia can’t count????????
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Montyfisherwoof – 16
Anyone can forsake GOD, it’s their choice – you nor I, or anyone else can stop people from turning away from the LORD.
We are told in the Bible:
We are seeing a time in history, where many aren’t tolerant of Christians, in fact they are HOSTILE – we don’t accomplish anything by demanding things such as Christian clubs on campus – it would be much better to have them meet without the school looking over their shoulders and demanding they run the Christian club THEIR WAY -
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Monty has a point about the ripeness of the issue. We don’t know if this same issue is kicking around in other circuits either.
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“it would be much better to have them meet without the school looking over their shoulders and demanding they run the Christian club THEIR WAY – “
To the catacombs!
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NJL – I understand, but at the same time, we as Believers, (I would hope) NOT want the school sending a teacher/sponsor to oversee their gatherings, who knows what that could breed. Churches don’t account to anyone as how they preach, teach or study – I wish the students had never decided to push this one, it wasn’t a good idea.
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Victoria,
I believe I understand your position. And I certainly agree. I would not want a heathen running the group.
A lot depends on who runs the group. So I do share your concerns on that issue.
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Why should a high school club have to include anyone who wants to join. Should the Chess Club admit people who hate chess? Should the Spanish Club admit people who don’t want to learn Spanish?
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I want to see a Jalapeno club. And the criteria for membership is being able to tell a Bhut Jolokia from a Tepen by taste while blindfolded and handcuffed to a chair seven feet away from a water fountain.
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Those who want to start a Christian club on campus should do so, but not under the auspices of any given school sponsor – this allows the student leaders who have been called, to start such a gathering to teach and reach other students for Christ without a sponsor who interfers.
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Give me a break …
Who can and cannot have a club is a school decision not a Supreme Court one.
The problem with government schools is that everything is politicized. No one can make a move without approval from Big Brother.
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My high school’s Bible Study was also not allowed to become an official school club either. Though we decided against lawsuit action since we were still allowed to meet on campus, there would have been more benefits to us if we were a club. For example, only official clubs were allowed to participate in the school’s club fair. There were many other benefits to clubs denied to us, but I’ll keep it brief just to point out that there are practical reasons why it’s “important for the club to seek to become an official student organization.”
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Xion – the kids can meet together just like friends, they don’t need to have permission to sit together in the cafeteria, or on the lawn or anywhere else – whatever they discuss is none of the H.S. officals business.
As far as a Christian club sponsored by school, who would want it, it only brings about the rules of school officials who would then design something to delute the Gospel -
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LiSaV – 27
YOU WRITE: >>>>>> “For example, only official clubs were allowed to participate in the school’s club fair.”
If the kids involved in the Christian club is to ….. fellowship together, spread the Gospel who cares about the ’school fair’? – I have no intention of being unkind, but believe that if the focus of a Christian club is outreach and study, a school fair wouldn’t matter.
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