I do note that you have made no attempt to structure the economic situation of the Great Depression, the 70s, and today for comparison with any reasoned argument on why the 70s were worse than today.

I suggest that this speaks for itself.

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but lets at leasdt sumarize the effort here.

1) it would appear that you are knowingly and deliberately mendacious: you appear to misstate facts even when you are aware of the correct facts

2) you would appear to be deliberately and knowingly misrepresenting the arguements of others, apparenlty in an effort to construct a false strawman whic you can then demonstrate is incorrect

3) you have demonstrated that you appear to be unable to bring facts and data to support your positions. Even when finally provided the link by others you seem unable to extract the key information to support your arguement, and you appear unable to provide your own references

4) you have demonstrated what can only be described of as false outrage at the actions of others either fully knowing, or naively not understanding that:

- the immediate consequences of your argument is a specific disdain for the U.S. constitution(Bush’s actions were ok because Obama did not immediately reverse them)

- you would appear to demonstrate a disdain for our judicial process in general: you apparenlty expect deliberative actions to occur instantaneously

- you would appear to show a disdain for American security: you argue for instantaneous actions which would by thier nature release pottentially dnagerous terrorists in the U.S.

An excellent track record for a few days of effort Joel.

Do you really want to continue to add to your list of intellectualy curious positions???

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do you mean even when I lay out the argument with the framing so you can defend your position you are unable to do so?

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hmm, no discussion of the great depression, 70s, and the present from an economic crisis perspective?

To spark this off then let me make some suggestions. For this round, I will not provide refeences, since if you disagree, I assume you will correct my statements with references.

Great Derpession:
Production capacity greatly exceede demand
there was a major liquidity crisis due in largemeasure to bank failures
HIgh unemployment: varying estimates but perhapos 15% to perhaps 30%
Price deflation
Major bankruptcies in production capacity

70s
Production capacity in some areas was less than demand
money was available (liquid) but at very high interest rates
inflation maxing I believe at 13% in 1979
moderate to low unemployment depending on the time
economy rocked by sets of oil shocks
low growth (stagflation)

Present:
Capacity greatly exceeds demand
challenge with liquidity
Financial institutions failing or in extremis
relatively high unemployment
price deflation
major production bankkruptcies

In short, it would seem that the present situation maps fairly cleanly to the Great Depression with the major difference being government intervention to ensure stability in the financial market and to stimulate growth in the economy. Bankruptcies in production sector have been managed to avoid collapse of production capacity.

By contrast the 70s were a period of what is typically known as stagflation, but with little other similarities, and certainly none of the financial dislocations, prodcution dislocations, and unemployment which we experienced during the Great Depression and the present crisis.

The 80s I suggest were arguably more complex. I would agree with you that the early 80s were devoted to cleaning up the stagflation of the 70s. It of course ended with the Savings and Loan crisis a nd its own problems. They certainly were not, however, nearly as challenging as the 70s, and nowhere nearly as challenging as today.

So it would seem that your challenge would be at base demonstrating that inflation is more dangerous and challenging than deflation.

Your move.

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if you look over the beginnings of this economic discusion you will see (and continued for some time) to argue that the 70s were worse economic ties than the present.

I suggest that perhaps realizing your error, you tried to slur this to the 70s and 80s.

Now amusingly I do agree with you that the economic hardships of the 80s were an effort to crrect problems from the 70s: it makes a good discussion.

But you then had the temerity to suggest that this was used by Reagan to provide the economic strenghth that carried us thorugh the 90s.

Two things strike me as an ommission in your argument:

1) the Savings and Loan crisis of the late 80s

2) the early 90s recessioon which torched Bush’s 1 second presidential bid in 1992

And you will still be hard put to demonstrate that the 70s were worse than today.

But do try. I confess to a it of delight watching your attempts at tap dancing here.

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but as I noted, you said the 70s.

I had already asserted that the 80s were higher.

You continued ot focus on the 70s.

You are now being totally disingenuous and given the reptition of the point, you know it.

But I understand your frustration, you will be hard put to show that the economic situation of the 70s is worse than dtoday unless you can show that the unemployment is higher: unhfortunatley as you well know, and demonstrate by your rathe rclumsy attempts to select the data: didn’t you rail against this practisice???

Ah I perhaps begin to see. Sinc eyou selective take data and misrepresent what has been said, you assume everybody does it.

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Check out the Bureau of labor Statistics site. I gave some monthly unemployment figures above that passed the 10% mark in the very early 80s and here are the yearly averages:

1980 – 7.1%
1981 – 7.6%
1982 – 9.7%
1983 – 9.6%
But by 1988, it was down to 5.5% and by 1989, it was 5.3%

See:
http://www.bls.gov/cps/prev_yrs.htm
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Who you blame, how and why are matters of debate over opinions, but there is good data to support my denial that unemployment figures show that this is the worst ecomomy since the Great Depression. They don’t and it’s not. Inflation (the second most significant economy mearsuing stick in my view) was also much worse in the 70s. But I think that we are headed toward some serious inflation under Obama, in my opinion.
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what, no description of the economic situations in the great depression, the 70s, and the present?

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