White cops, black suspicion
In his nationally televised press conference last week President Obama said that the white cop who arrested Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. acted “stupidly.” The cop, Sgt. James Crowley, rejected President Obama’s comments last Thursday, saying he was “way off base” for the accusation of stupidity. Then on Friday, Obama said that he regretted his choice of words and called Crowley to talk it over. Despite this smoothing over, this entire situation has resurrected another conversation in the race debate and has burst the myth of our “post-racial” Obamanation. The officer arrested Gates, in part, because of the statements the scholar made out of anger and frustration, which, candidly, I understand.
Crowley, an 11-year veteran of the Cambridge Police Department, responded to a reported break-in at the professor’s home. A neighbor reported seeing two men break into the home. The neighbor was unaware the man forcing his way inside was Gates, who had locked himself out.
When Crowley arrived, he told Gates he was investigating a report of a break-in and asked for his identification. “Why? Because I’m a black man in America,” Gates responded according to the police report. Gates initially refused to hand over identification, instead charging the officer of being racist.
If Professor Gates had been white would he have been arrested? Would the call from the neighbor had been made at all? Probably not, many would say. Is a bearded 58-year-old black man at a home in Cambridge suspicious in early in the afternoon? Obviously. The saddest part of the story is that the neighbor called in the afternoon and had no idea who Gates was either. When neighbors don’t know each other, unfortunate situations like this happen.
My guess is that Gates will make at least $500,000 from this incident: a book deal, speaking engagements, interviews, etc. I am actually jealous. When I was pulled over in Creve Coeur, Mo., a wealthy white suburb in St. Louis, for a “rolling stop” at a stop sign, the president of the United States never accused the officer acting stupidly when I had to defend how it was that “a guy like [me] could afford a car like this.”
Granted, I didn’t come to a complete stop at the stop sign (like everyone else) but for the life of me I could not understand why the officer did a walk-around to check the inside of my vehicle and begin to question how a person like myself could afford a brand new Jeep Cherokee. Was it maybe because I was in graduate school and the vehicle was given to me as a graduation present? I’ll never forget telling my seminary friends about the line of questioning about my ability to afford the vehicle and many responded, “Well, the Bible does say that Christians will be persecuted.”
Since that day, whenever I’m in a neighborhood where I’m not supposed to be—for example in a white middle-class suburb—I get uneasy whenever I see a white cop driving near me. I wonder is this is going to be the day when I’m going to get asked how I could afford my car. Then again, I’m no Henry Louis Gates Jr., with an M.A. and a Ph.D. in English literature from Clare College at the University of Cambridge, a B.A. summa cum laude in history from Yale University, and currently the Alphonse Fletcher University professor and director of the W.E.B. Du Bois Institute for African and African American Research at Harvard University.














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back to top91 Comments to “White cops, black suspicion”
You gotta concede the fact that Gates now has some credibility in da ‘hood. Citation for disorderly conduct? $100. Demogoguery value of being officially oppressed victim of racist whitey power structure? Priceless.
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Persective,
If I got pulled over and questioned about my ability to pay for the Jeep Cherokee, I would assume the officer was like my brothers and interested in the car. We would talk about it. I would accept my warning or citation and move on.
Anthony, has this happened to you before? Are they in the habit of pulling you over and discussing this stuff with you? Or are you taking along the baggage of others?
I ask this stuff because I am not black or anything else that gets “special” treatment in a negative way. I am curious as to how much of our racism is really there and how much is imagined. Having lived in other countries, I get the impression racism is nearly nonexisent here in comparison to say: Italy or Okinawa or some other places. But I know it exists, just trying to figure it out.
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That would be “perspective”.
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The downside of being black (african-american if you prefer) is that you get nailed for all sorts of petty crimes.
The upside is that most Americans will give you their vote just to atone for national guilt.
As with all categories based on appearance: sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
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Demogoguery value of being officially oppressed victim of racist whitey power structure?
Negro men are so dumb, the MSM and phony Harvard professors are able delude them into thinking that cops harass them.
Demogoguery: appealing to popular desires and prejudices rather than by using rational argument.
Attaboy, SAWGUNNER, make the powers that be put an end to prejudice against white people.
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Gates had every opportunity just like his neighbor to introduce himself.
I would be just as suspicious of anyone I didnt know or recognize breaking into a home. I personally wouldnt wanna go check it out myself, I’d call the police.
“white trash” make me just as nervous as any other dirty, grungy dressed, shady, individual/group.
I think the cop wouldve arrested him whether white or black. I mean yankees arent racist anyway right?
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This doesn’t just happen to black people.
My dad was driving a Lincoln Continental in his “farm clothes” since he was going to a farm auction some distance away. He got pulled over by some cops and was questioned somewhat. He also has a heavy Dutch accent.
You may be a little ticked off that they suspect you, but if you are calm and polite it will probably be over with pretty quick and also help dispel prejudice. Whereas if you are confrontational you are likely to reinforce prejudices.
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Demagogue Colin Powell told CNN he has been racially profiled “many times” — and has gotten “angry” about it.
You just suck it up. What are you going to do? . . . So, you have this kind of — there is no African-American in this country who has not been exposed to this kind of situation.
Gen. Powell stoops to play the victim card in order to get some credibility in da hood — and Negroes are so dumb, it works!
No wonder Negroes don’t deserve to have SAWGUNNER refer to them as “the Black community” or “neighborhoods” or whatever the politically correct term de jour would be.
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NOPM,
Kind of like communicating here on the blog.
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Hmm, I thought Sawgunner was black or African American or whatever.
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Thoughtful post Anthony. I once heard a similar complaint from a black friend of mine. It still happens. Unfortunately.
An acquaintence confessed a few months ago that she had left the real estate business a couple of years back. Why? She was told
that if she continued her practice of showing expensive homes in ‘white’ neighborhoods to people of color (who were PRE-QUALIFIED, BTW) she would no longer be allowed to show the expensive homes at all.
We are very anxious to believe that because we personally, are not doing these things, that no real racial injustice exists in this country. Or we justify it by saying that we’re not as bad as ________, (and you can fill in the country name). Our abortion rate is not as bad as ______either, but no one should argue that our sin of abortion is an imaginary problem.
There is no panacea. I know we’re human, and as long as we’re in the flesh, there will be sin and injustice. But we should do our best not to devalue the extra burden routinely carried by those who experience racism firsthand.
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On the “neighbor” line of discussion: have you heard the latest from the caller’s lawyer, and the 911 tapes? First, the caller worked in the neighborhood, but did not live in the neighborhood. So the whole “she should know here neighbors better” line of discussion has been made moot. Also, it was apparently a *second* woman who was pushing for the police call, and who was closer to the breaking-in of the door. The actually caller said something to the effect that she probably would have done nothing herself, had this other woman not asked/suggested she call the police.
So this *second* woman is the one who could possibly be subject to the “why don’t you know your neighbors better”, and “were you influenced by they’re being black?” lines of discussion. But apparently this woman has not been identified and hasn’t been interviewed by anyone.
My own theory about why Crowley reported that he spoke to the caller before approaching the house, but the actual caller said she did not speak to Crowley at all, is that Crowley actually spoke to this *second* woman, thinking she was the caller. And maybe this second woman said something about “two black men with backpacks”, even though the actual caller had said they were suitcases, and did not identify the men as black men. But without actually talking to this second woman, it’s all speculation.
One of the secondary lessons of this whole episode is how we can come to completely incorrect conclusions when just a few small facts are out of place.
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DJ,
My thought at bringing up other countries was the annoyance of going to other lands and hearing about how terrible America is for this and then coming back and hearing it from the people here. Not that we don’t have racism, we do and it is evil. But that somehow, our children have been persuaded that America is an evil racist country, derailing them from the real problem that America is filled with fallen man who will do evil things.
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I didn’t mean to single you out, Mumsee. It’s a common rebuttal that we’re not as bad as____in____(fill in the subject matter and country). All of which is true. But we’re answerable for our own sins, and not anothers. We don’t do too bad in most areas in world comparison. But it’s comparison to God’s standards that I keep in front of me. I keep forgetting that many of you have traveled in other countries, and are making those comparisons based on your travels. No offense intended for sure.
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I was once with a (white) friend who got pulled over for a rolling stop, so it isn’t necessarily just an excuse. And a brother who lived in a black neighborhood and was often out late at night said he was stopped far more often than usual; if the police are going to protect, they are going to be more present, too. When I lived in the ‘hood in Chicago, some of my older, wise neighbors were trying to get restricted parking on our street–and their stated reason was that if there’s restricted parking, the cops drive down the street more often, and they wanted police presence to keep the area safe. Other blocks near us had “gone bad,” but ours stayed fairly safe, partly at least because of those older men who cared that it would.
That’s not to say that blacks and whites are treated equally by the cops, but that probably any man is pulled over much more often than any woman, and anyone in a “bad” neighborhood more often than in a good neighborhood (unless you’re driving an old car in an upperclass neighborhood, in which case you may risk getting pulled over).
BTW, I once explained to a white friend what a black friend had told me, that black people have to teach their children what to do if a cop pulls them over: be polite, don’t be at all aggressive, move for your wallet slowly and only after being asked for it, preferably say “yes sir” and “no sir,” etc.–that any sign of aggression or sudden moves will risk escalating the situation. When I finished my litany of how careful black people have to be with police, my friend exclaimed, “But any white person knows all that! We all know to be extra careful and extra respectful with authority.” And he was right. This is where Gates went wrong, that he didn’t do what any half-intelligent white man would do, respond with respect–and, in this circumstance, even thank the police for watching out for the safety of his home. I do understand that black people tend to be more afraid of the police, and I sympathize, but really, Gates’ mother should have told him to show respect to the police, because if he had shown the respect white people usually do, this incident would never have escalated. He thought he could demand the privilege of his position and be superior to those officers, and then play the race card when it didn’t work. Sorry, Gates is a respected scholar (I highly recommend his Norton Anthology of African American Literature), but on this one he played the fool, and is trying to turn it around and accuse white people of racism. Not fair, and not productive. And if he was trying to get arrested, then he was doing all the more to decrease good race relations in this country, and he ought to be ashamed of that. I sympathize with his frustrations, but he’s too smart a man to have acted so stupidly, and I don’t sympathize with his actions.
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#8 Scroop, I think as long as we insist on their being two separate communities, we will experience separateness. Is that what MLK and so many others lived and died for? He spoke of “the beloved community”. You still must concede that certain grievance hustler types (Sharpton, Je$$e Jack$on) wear mistreatmt at the hands of cops as a badge of honor.
A thorough after action review reveals much that shoulda been done differently on the part of Crowley and Gates. Gates obviously lost his professional bearing and the situation escalated to the point that the officer felt it best to take the action he took.
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Most of us can identify Anthony Bradley’s jealousy. Anthony is jealous of Henry Gates, someone who is in a higher office, with better credentials, and who is, in all likelihood, simply more gifted. We’re jealous because we’d all like to be the hero, the benefactor. However, instead of simply being jealous, we might instead be grateful when folks in high places use their platform to call attention to the plight they share with us.
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BTW, when we tell cops not to treat black men any differently than white men, and also tell them they must accept from a black man what they wouldn’t accept from a white man, we put them in real danger. Realistically, the black man is far more likely to have a record of violence; and any aggressive man (or woman) is potentially dangerous, but the black man is probably more likely to be showing aggression because he’s armed and willing to escalate to violence. Those are stereotypes, sure, and probably not true in “better” neighborhoods like the one in question–but they’re also true stereotypes, and police have to think about the danger to their own lives and the lives of others, and not just about whether they’ll look prejudiced when this story hits the paper, if they respond too strongly to an overly belligerent black man and he happens to be a friend of the president!
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“I’ll never forget telling my seminary friends about the line of questioning about my ability to afford the vehicle and many responded, “Well, the Bible does say that Christians will be persecuted.””
Sigh. I’m embarassed for your friends. The foolishness of the Gospel is all well and good, but the Bible does NOT tell us to be fools. And that statement was extremely stupid, not to mention irrelevant.
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I’m suspicious that your friends were equating persecution for preaching the gospel with persecution because of skin color. That’s a confusion no one needs…
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Only tenuously related to this topic, but ….
The girl strategy when pulled over, of course, is to weep uncontrollably. But that doesn’t seem to be as effective as it once was.
One of my young colleagues was pulled over late one night as she was leaving a city council meeting — she’s white, cute as a bug and was about, oh, 11 months pregnant at the time. She began to (sincerely) cry when the officer walked up to the window, she was exhausted and had just put in a long, hard day.
Alas, it didn’t work, he gave her a speeding ticket anyway.
A cop who pulled me over one day for speeding (a long time ago, mind you) asked if I were related to a famous baseball player who had grown up in our area. “Oh, would that help?” I asked. “No,” he replied. “Then no, I’m no relation.”
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MIM,
Perhaps Anthony’s Christ-like restraint in dealing with the situation is what they were referring to—unlike Prof. Gate’s response?
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Actually, the woman who called in had no idea what race that two men breaking into the home were. She said as much when she called. She was asked for a description so they could be identified by police and even then she didn’t know for sure, but thought one may be hispanic. Her call clearly had no racial overtones at all.
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And for crying out loud, even if she had identified them as black, does one really refrain from reporting a home break-in in progress if the people doing the break-in appear to be black?
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Here are two columns that I thought had good insight on the encounter.
In the first, the writer tries to re-create the scenario through the two men’s eyes, alternating back and forth between Gates’ perspective and Crowley’s, trying to stay honest to the news reports.
In the second, the writer gives an imagined dialog between the two men during the incident — he goes a lot farther than the facts, but still gave me insight.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jHud4VBSlwHX-0MPU8m15Yh9lE8gD99MH3381
http://www.examiner.com/x-3555-LA-Independent-Examiner~y2009m7d27-The-arrest-of-Henry-Louis-Gates-What-really-happened
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There will always be racism, until Jesus fixes this broken earth.
Even in a moderately diverse neighborhood such as mine, kids use the word “Jew” as an insult.
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“Perhaps Anthony’s Christ-like restraint in dealing with the situation is what they were referring to—unlike Prof. Gate’s response?”
I don’t think so. Anthony was probably non-plussed at their reaction. Skin color probably had everything to do with why the cop had suspicion about why he was driving that car. Obviously the cop was suspicious that he had stolen it.
The Bible says we will be persecuted for the Gospel- for the sake of Jesus- not because of our skin color. For these seminary students to demonstrate confusion between the two, makes me question their theology. It sounds suspiciously like a Jeremiah Wright style liberation theology…
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SAWGUNNER, If you care about community, stop trashing the experience of people in America who have some kind of community, who mostly, for historical reasons, are Black. For my part, I’ll not demean that community as a product of victimization or as the invention of race hu$tlers, because I believe that perseverance, cultural excellence, and dreams have something to do with it.
I’m sorry, I can’t buy your implication that Black people “insist on there being two separate communities.” African Americans insist on not being the black sheep of the family. No, I take that back. One is free in America to be nasty. African Americans insist with reason on not being treated unjustly.
White Americans have for the most part chosen to encourage or allow an aggressive and hostile style of policing that affects Blacks and Hispanics disproportionately and unjustly. This has gone on for a long time. It explains why the phrase “police brutality” became a SNL joke instead of a serious point of inquiry about the relation of citizens to their government. Conservatives are now trying to do the same thing to the phrase “racial profiling.”
One of the ways conservatives do that is by pretending there are no racial disparities except those fabricated by race hu$tlers. Thus, they accuse Gates of “injecting race” when, without a doubt, the Cambridge PD injected race. (My judgement about that comes from three sources: the 911 call, Crowley’s own story, and the Middlesex DA’s refusal to prosecute.)
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In my eight years of police work I probably pulled over an average of five cars per working day. Because the car was moving, and usually some distance ahead, I had no idea of the color or sex of the driver until I had made my stop. Unless I later became aware of a malfunctioning traffic signal or was called away for an emergency, the decision to issue a citation was made fefore I activated my emergency lights. The idea of being stopped for “driving while black” is a self-reinforcing myth. Empirical studies show absolutely no disparity in traffic stops or citations issued relating to the race of the driver.
Despite the first mention of race in the fully recorded incident at Gates’s home was when Gates began shouting, “So this is what it’s like for a black man in America!” and the complete support of Sgt. Crowley by his black and hispanic fellow officers at the scene, SCROOP MOTH has no doubt that it was the Cambridge PD that injected race. Such a radical disconnect with the facts cannot be justified.
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I keep hearing Ozzy in my head everytime I hear Crowley.
It’s understandable that older generations still have much emotion regarding race. It’s surprising to me all this is in the North recently.
It’s good that Gen Y is doing much to resolve this, simply because we’ve grown up with diversity at our fingertips. There is no black, white, or yellow to us. I think thats why I have a hard time understanding, why after all the blood and sweat, that many men have suffered, the depth of the race issue observed today. Why so many on either side, prey on such an issue, why older generations have a hard time moving foward out of all this emotional baggage.
Are we still scared of scary people? Yes, that wont change. But it has little to do with skin color.
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Gates knew exactly what he was doing.
He got his name recognized and debated for two weeks.
He got a lot of sympathy.
He got the nation divided.
He got an audience with the president.
He got a free beer.
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KEN: . . . a radical disconnect with the facts cannot be justified.
According to the police versions of the facts, the dispatcher asked about race and Sgt. Crowley says he was told about “two black men with backpacks.” The PD thus injected race because, according to their words, they were thinking about race before they saw Gates.
Here’s the 911 (the “caller” is Lucia Whalen):
Caller: Umm, I don’t know what’s happening. I just have an elder woman, uh, standing here and she had noticed two gentlemen trying to get in a house at that number, 17 Ware St., and they kind of had to barge in. And they broke the screen door and they finally got in and when I had looked, I went further, closer to the house a little bit, after the gentlemen were already in the house, I noticed two suitcases So I’m not sure if these are two individuals who actually work there, I mean who live there . . . [crosstalk] . . . I don’t know if they live there and they just had a hard time with their key, but I did notice that they had to use their shoulder to try to barge in and they got in . . .
Dispatcher: (inaudible) black or Hispanic? Are they still in the house?
Caller: They’re still in the house I believe, yeah.
Dispatcher: Are they white, black or Hispanic?
Caller: Umm, well there were two larger men, one looked kind of Hispanic, but I’m not really sure. And the other one entered and I didn’t see what he looked like at all . . .
Here is Crowley’s report:
“As I reached the door, a female voice called to me. I turned and looked in the direction of the voice and observed a white female, later identified as Lucia Whalen . . . She went on to tell me that she observed what appeared to be two black males with backpacks on the porch of . . .”
Notice that Sgt. Crowley puts racial words in Lucia Whalen’s mouth that she denies saying. We suspect Sgt. Crowley is lying about her because Whalen was just on tape telling the dispatcher she didn’t know the race of the men who entered the house, but one “may” have been hispanic. Crowley also reports that Whalen told him the suspects had “backpacks.” This appears to be more fictionalizing, because Whalen correctly identified the objects as suitcases.
Sgt. Crowley seems to be challenged by facts. His “report” amounts to a confession of false arrest, for he says he arrested Gates for yelling on his porch.
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We live in a great community, however we don’t know all the neighbors – I don’t care who’s home it is, or what color they are, if I see anyone kicking in a door, and carrying several suitcases – I’m calling 911.
Anyone who is asked by a police officer to see their Driver’s License should hand it over – Gates thought he could upstage the officer by whatever importance he believes he’s attained –
Sgt. James Crowley was treated badly, …. Obama stuck his foot in it, Gates can play the victim – Sgt. James Crowley is the only one who did his job and behaved appropriately, the other two sulked and now they want to have a beer.
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I disagree, Thorn. Like I said in my previous post, kids around here still use “Jew” as an insult. If pressed, they’ll say, “Oh no, I don’t really mean it,” but the fact that it’s used is still racism. Not to mention racism toward Hispanics, which unfortunately is becoming more and more widespread.
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Duh, Scroop. That’s the way policemen are supposed to talk in reports, especially if names aren’t known.
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Whatever the woman told Crowley may have been different than the phone conversation – the main POINT? Gates didn’t hand over his Driver’s License, but instead became indignant, that was the reason this became a front page story – Gates couldn’t follow the law and hand it over – poor guy, maybe next time he’ll remember this little episode….
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Could it be that Crowley is sticking to his guns so firmly, because he doesn’t want to be branded a racist because he thinks a racist is a bad thing. That would be a good thing.
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Scroop, you expect policemen, or anyone else, to be able to identify someone without knowing a little detail like their race? Mentioning that someone is of a particular ethnicity is not racist, and calling it such is ridiculous.
Whalen was standing there, and she told him that they were black *after* the call. So she obviously noticed their ethnicity after the call, or she would have said something to the dispatcher.
In other news, haven’t we hashed this out over two threads already?
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OT and CAT: Look again at the 911 call and Crowley’s report. Crowley is fibbing about what Lucia Whalen told him. He says she informed him that she saw two black men with backpacks. Unfortunately, it’s impossible to believe Crowley about that. He’s making it up. We just heard Whalen on tape saying something different. Crowley wrote a false report.
Ask yourself, why did Crowley put such words in her mouth — words that she denies she said, words that contradict what she told the dispatcher? Think about that and let me know. I’ve got ideas, but it would be cheating for me to tell the answer before you figure it out yourself.
Also, give me a little break. KEN #29 makes a factually incorrect statement, “. . . the first mention of race in the fully recorded incident at Gates’s home was when Gates began shouting . . .” The first mentions of race were in the 911 call and in Crowley’s fictionalized account of what Whalen told him. What’s wrong with correcting Officer Ken about that?
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Ah. I think Ken means the first mention of race in a negative way.
How do you now that Crowley’s fibbing? He says that Whalen told him about there being black men with backpacks after he arrived on the scene. He says nothing about the dispatch call, in which she doesn’t clearly identify race.
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Anthony, if you jump to a conclusion that a white cop did a walk around because you are black, then who has the rose colored glasses?
When I was in college driving my parents car, a similar thing happened to me, only I was ticketed. I was driving a BMW and was told I accelerated too fast. Even though I broke no laws, I was ticketed for being young in a nice car. Why were you let off so easily?
Blacks have overwhelming advantages now and Obama is piling on more. Soon Obama will pay medical schools billions to profile and favor black and Hispanic students. Do I hear anyone celebrating this? Nope only complaints. I hear no one stating the obvious, i.e. that it is racism pure and simple. Having a black president hasn’t help race relations in the least. Instead, racial preferences will increase dramatically.
My take on the matter is that while some racism exists, black leaders and racist laws have fostered a culture of victimhood and inferiority and paranoia in the black community. Everything is seen through a racial lens. Whereas for me and most people I associate with it is the farthest thing from our minds.
Also, you need to own up to your demographics. If most criminals fit your profile in that environment, then wouldn’t it be a dereliction of duty to not take a second look. It isn’t harassment. It is called public safety.
We hear a lot of whining about racial profiling, but complete silence about racial preferences.
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Without commentary and for whatever it may add or subtract from the current dialogue contained herein.
I believe that regardless of how bright the limelight may be shining on this particular situation, the cause of it all is found in the human heart, black or white.
James 4:1a
Where do wars and fights come from among you?…
If there is pride involved, we all know what’ll come next.
“Pride goes before destruction,
And a haughty spirit before a fall.”
But in all honesty, I’ve not the gaze which looks upon the heart. 1 Sam. 16:7b
“…For the Lord does not see as man sees; for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”
Only God knows what’s whirling around in these mens’ hearts.
And here’s a little gem from Acts 5:34-39 that even though it’s spoken by a man named Gamaliel from the first century regarding the apostles and their teaching, I think there might be some wisdom in it for this Gates/Crowley mess.
Then one in the council stood up, a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law held in respect by all the people, and commanded them to put the apostles outside for a little while. 35And he said to them: Men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what you intend to do regarding these men. 36“For some time ago Theudas rose up, claiming to be somebody. A number of men, about four hundred, joined him. He was slain, and all who obeyed him were scattered and came to nothing. 37“After this man, Judas of Galilee rose up in the days of the census, and drew away many people after him. He also perished, and all who obeyed him were dispersed. 38“And now I say to you, keep away from these men and let them alone; for if this plan or this work is of men, it will come to nothing; 39“but if it is of God, you cannot overthrow it—lest you even be found to fight against God.”
Dan
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I was once accused in an indirect way of being racist. I was in a laundramat alone reading a magazine when I heard the door open. I immediately went on guard as I recalled an incident earlier of a woman raped when alone in a laundramat. I felt very vulnerable. My purse was a few feet from me, so I picked it up so that it would not be out of my reach and closer to whoever was coming in. I could not see who was coming in, because the wall jutted out right in front of the door.
In the middle of picking up my purse, I made eye contact with the man who entered. He happened to be black. I set my purse down and went back to my magazine, but remained on guard. Not because he was black, but he was a man and much bigger than I was. Later, I read this man used my picking up my purse as an example of racism. He was wrong, but I did not have a chance to correct him and I am sure he still thinks it was such a thing.
He misunderstood my motives. Of course, I have misunderstood others many times myself.
I have no doubt there is racism, but I also know other groups of people who are targeted. My daughter and her boyfriend were once stopped for a tail light infraction. The officer asked the boyfriedn to open his trunk. He did so, but was wondering why. Later, they heard there was a big kegger party going on in the vicinity and they thought that was why. Such things are not unheard of no matter your race.
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I think I’ll agree with Xion there.
You have to understand: this is how white people see it. One in a million in my generation is racist. Few enough in my parent’s generation are racist. My grandparent’s generation either never was racist, even in the culture of the day, has changed and is sorry, or stays silent.
Yet we are all accused, blanketly, of being racist. And we’re supposed to be okay with preferential treatment of minorities? Do people really not see the irony and racism there?
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Then again, I’m no Henry Louis Gates Jr., with an M.A. and a Ph.D. in English literature from Clare College at the University of Cambridge, a B.A. summa cum laude in history from Yale University, and currently the Alphonse Fletcher University professor and director of the W.E.B. Du Bois Institute for African and African American Research at Harvard University.
Yes, affirmative action been berry berry good to Henry Louis Gates.
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KI, don’t ever let fear of being called a racist keep you from using common sense to protect yourself. When I was a teen my car broke down in a bad neighborhood. A black man stopped to offer help and I gave him my dad’s phone number through a crack in the window as I had been taught. HE made it a point to tell me not to get out of the car until someone I knew came.
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Oh NT, you don’t rack up accomplishments like that on somebody else’s sympathy. Indeed, it is the fact of those accomplishments that may give a clue to Gates own motive: to get to his station takes a drive, and dare we say it, ego. This sense of personal status and achievement makes him (and makes us) more resistant to a challenge like that of Crowley.
By all accounts, Crowley also knows himself and his professional role with the same conviction. So Gates’ reaction challenges what he stands for as well. Yelling at him that he is being ironic would be especially rich — Crowley actually teaches racial sensitivity to the police force.
So we have two accomplished individuals, each implicitly challenging the other’s status. And if our own experience (well at least mine, maybe yours, too) is any measure, once you get into the cycle of self-justification it’s mighty hard to break out.
So call me sympathetic to both sides. And hand them a beer — a good one (say one of the Sam Adams wheat beers). These men are closer than this confrontation makes them appear.
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I am truly sorry that Anthony has the attitude that he does. The officer arrested Gates, in part, because of the statements the scholar made out of anger and frustration, which, candidly, I understand. and Since that day, whenever I’m in a neighborhood where I’m not supposed to be—for example in a white middle-class suburb—I get uneasy whenever I see a white cop driving near me
Anger and frustration do not justify misconduct. As many drunks discover on Friday nights. Gates was arrested because of conduct. understanding ‘anger and frustration ‘ does not legitimize it.
It is sad that you think there is any neighborhood where you are not supposed to be. Unless you are at the race track gambling when you should be on the street praising God and spreading the gospel. Or perhaps in a tawdry bar schmoozing up to an overpriced bottle of Budweiser. Otherwise you are free to be where ever you want to be. Sometimes a policeman will know an area is particularly dangerous and that you should be made aware of it.
So why should you be any more ‘nervous’ when you are near a white cop than a black or asian or native american cop? In fact you shouldn’t be. When you are that is racism and you should repent of your attitude.
If you are stopped often by the police, ask yourself why. And be hard on yourself in answering. If when stopped you are not treated reasonably, again ask yourself why and what you could have done to make the encounter better. Don’t take it racially, take it personally.
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I was stopped in a poor black neighborhood by an Asian cop when I was driving a $100K car. At first the officer was tense but after just a minute or so he loosened up. It came to be known that the reason for the stop was that someone in the neighborhood had been shot and a witness had said the suspect drove off in a ‘fancy red car’. Mine apparently was the fanciest one around. As the stop ended the cop said that he wished every stop was as pleasant.
Was I insulted by being stopped? NO! Did I think it was the end of the world because I was stopped? No! Was I all hot under the collar because I was delayed getting to where I was going? No! Where was the insult? I felt highly insulted when I found out later that the ‘fancy red car’ driven by the observed suspect was a second hand POS. Red but not fancy.
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TJSCAT He says nothing about the dispatch call . . .
Sgt. Crowley couldn’t say anything about the 911 call, because he didn’t listen in. He probably wasn’t allowed to listen to it until after he finished writing his report. ( What matters in a police report is what the writer sees and hears, not what people tell other people, which isn’t the writer’s evidence.) If Crowley had been able to listen to the tape before writing his report, it’s unlikely that he would have claimed that Whalen told him she saw “two black men with backpacks.”
. . . she doesn’t clearly identify race.
She was crystal clear about her inability to do that. “Are they white, black or Hispanic?” the dispatcher asks. “Umm, well there were two larger men, one looked kind of Hispanic, but I’m not really sure.” She’s telling the police that, given the choices, the best she can guess is “kind of Hispanic.” But she couldn’t even guess about the race of the other. “And the other one entered and I didn’t see what he looked like at all . . .” That’s not vague, that’s a total dud.
Whalen could never testify in court that she observed two black men. Her 911 recording contradicts such an identification.
How do we know that Crowley is lying? 1.) Whalen indignantly and convincingly repeats on camera her denial that she identified and/or reported seeing black men. 2. ) The vagueness of “kind of Hispanic but I’m not sure” cannot be misinterpreted as an alternate racial selection. 3.) She flatly denied that she could see the racial features of the other man, who entered the house. 4.) Crowley gets the backpacks wrong. Whalen told the dispatcher “suitcases,” so his discrepancies accumulate. 5.) The Middlesex DA refused the charges, suggesting the DA did not believe Crowley’s narrative. The DA certainly did not think that the crime that Crowley said happened actually happened. Crowley’s reliability must have been hurt by his false claim about what Whalen told him. A defense attorney would tear him up for that.
None of this goes to the question of why Crowley lied about Whalen. That’s a separate issue. But it’s pretty easy to conclude that he did.
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#26 and 34 Op Teen,
There are bunches of people who use words as pejoratives. Just say, Hey the Jews invented the cell phone. The non-Jews ticket you when you use them while driving!
Humour often works where sermonizing doesn’t.
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stop trashing the experience of people in America who have some kind of community, who mostly, for historical reasons, are Black
Sigh. Scropp Moth’s racism just gets wilder all the time. When you think she has calmed down she claims that only blacks have a community….. Sigh. Forget every one else.
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Since we have a boozer in the White House….. What should we call the bar in the white house, Any good suggestions for names?
The Barack Obama Pity Lounge?
The Open Mouth Insert Foot Saloon?
The Have a Brewski and Excuse Me Tavern?
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#19 and 20 MIM,
I agree with you 100 per cent!
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#29 Ken
In my eight years of police work I probably pulled over an average of five cars per working day.
That is twenty five per five day week.
That is 1250 per year assuming a fifty week year (Two weeks for vacation)
Eight years means approximately ten thousand cars.
WOW!
Think of how many lives you saved just by getting them to drive better!
Thank you, Ken!
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What kind of medication do you take at night Montyfisherwoof?
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Somedays, CT, I mainline some Dr Pepper.
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I used to snort coke, but the bubbles tickled my nose.
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In the old days it was Pepsi and RC.
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Montyfisherwoof, the style and content of your writing reminds me of (former) Officer Justin Barrett’s email. (It’s been called a rant, but I think you might identify with it.)
Check it out here:
http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/dpp/news/dpgo_justin_barrett_full_email_072909_2710399
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#61 CT
Actually CT I was quite perturbed for you to make that comparison. My style of writing is far and away different. In many ways. My text is far less angry. Far more eloquent. Far more elegant. Far more to the point. Far more backed up by research and thought.
I don’t hate Gates I just think he is an idiot and I resent the MSM for praising an unworthy candidate. I refrain from using truly derogatory language. I won’t even repeat the phrases used in the link.
Of course that I ‘remind’ you is no insult as anything can remind us of anything. But while I understand that the officer has passion, I believe it to be overwrought and uncontrolled. My text is extremely controlled. SSO I have to say that no I don’t identify with his prose.
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MFW, on second thought, I think you’re far more humble than this Officer Barrett.
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Scroop Moth: If Whalen herself has and denied saying that to Crowley, then I may believe it. You could have just said so.
From your post, I gathered that you were arguing that Whalen couldn’t have said what you say Crowley says she said, because at the time of the dispatch call, she couldn’t identify race. (Sorry if that was a bit confusing just there.
)
My argument was that since the encounter Crowley describes happened after that, and she was on the scene apparently the entire time, she could easily have taken note of race after the call.
If she’s since denied saying that, then fine.
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Wait just a second: upon further study, I have to wonder why we’re even assuming that Crowley is saying that Whalen told him that the two suspects were black and had backpacks.
The quote was: “. . . She went on to tell me that she observed what appeared to be two black males with backpacks on the porch of . . .”
You, Scroop Moth, assumed, (and I followed your lead), that Crowley is saying here that Whalen told him that she observed two black males.
However, it could easily be the case that Crowley is saying that Whalen told him that she observed two men, which appeared *to him* to be black.
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“I don’t hate Gates I just think he is an idiot…
“Since we have a boozer in the White House….. What should we call the bar in the white house, Any good suggestions for names?
The Barack Obama Pity Lounge?
The Open Mouth Insert Foot Saloon?
The Have a Brewski and Excuse Me Tavern?”
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Monty
The above comments make it somewhat difficult for me to accept your counsel about posting Scripture in this forum.
You are entitled to your opinions of course and are free to express them as you see necessary.
Dan
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TjsCAT However, it could easily be the case that Crowley is saying that Whalen told him that she observed two men, which appeared *to him* to be black.
In other words, you are suggesting that Crowley didn’t lie, he misspoke. He meant to say something like this:
“As I bounded up the porch steps, the witness informed me that she had observed two men. She didn’t tell me their race. Subsequently, I would see two men who appeared to me to be black– but who knows, I couldn’t tell, even though one of them was screaming that he’s black. I determined that these are the same men she saw, whose race she failed to identify. The B&E detectives will have to sort out their actual race. But I’m jumping ahead of myself. So, remember, I’m still running up the steps. I reach the porch and peer through the front door into the vestibule . . .”
You’re joking.
Here’s why your attempt to reconcile Crowley’s report doesn’t work. Crowley has a duty to report the relevant information that witnesses give him. Descriptions are part of the evidence. Such information also lays foundation for subsequent action. Crowley can’t make it sound like Whalen told him she observed things that he later detected, or guessed at, because that’s not just bad writing, it’s careless disregard of the evidence.
Please tell me you’re joking!
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Where are you from OT?
I’m not saying there arent kids who dont, especially immature kids that think its funny, more so than being racist. I mean how many watch Family Guy? The show is laced with race jokes, cause Seth Green and McFarlane think its funny…I dont think either one of them is a racist. (I’m not saying its appropriate either)
Overall, or the general assessment is that Gen Yers have grown up with diversity. Most have friends who are of some other nationality in the least. We can talk to anybody anywhere now with the internet. They dont see color like our previous generations do. But I do agree with you that they will still use it to be 1. funny 2. deragatory when anger rises. And do note, I dont mean every Gen Y. Its just the general scope as studies are showing.
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Wait a minute, TJSCAT, there’s another reason your speculative suggestion doesn’t help Crowley. The driver is evidently gone by the time the cop sees Gates. Crowley only describes one occupant in the house. Therefore, Crowley cannot be the source of the observation that two men appeared to be black. But, in event that the driver still was on the scene, but unaccountably not mentioned in the report as a material witness, all the other problems discussed in #69 still hold.
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Oh NT, you don’t rack up accomplishments like that on somebody else’s sympathy.
Maybe you should read Gates sometime. For a person who claims to be so dazzled by his intellect your ignorance of what he actually says is shocking.
Just like Sotomayor, Gates has always been forthright about admitting that affirmative action got him where he is today. And people like you are the opposite of forthright, and continue to insist that they got their positions because they’re the very best persons for the jobs. Heck, Sotomayor isn’t even that smart. She says “vagrancies of the moment” when she means vagaries, confuses “eminent” with “imminent”, and makes all sorts of other mistakes with the language. And she brags about being “an affirmative action baby”, but people like you keep saying it was nothing but merit.
My comment about Gates and AA doesn’t mean that Gates is stupid. It just means that he’s gone a lot further with his intelligence and talent than a white man with the same gifts would have. Gates is certainly no genius, but he’s no dummy, either. But the only reason he’s hopped from one Ivy League school to another is affirmative action.
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#70
It turns out that there were TWO women. Lucia was doing the calling for another older woman. The other woman saw the men. She might have hung around and talked directly to Crowley.
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I think that Blacks (due to true racism in the past and some true remnants now) often take something that happens to EVERYONE and assign it a racist meaning.
As I said the other day, a Black woman on one of my homeschooling lists ascribed racism to the post office because they made her wait in line. As if they planned that just for her due to her skin color, and all the other people waiting weren’t also inconvenienced.
My teenage son and I were followed ALL THROUGH TOWN the other day by a motorcycle cop. He was absolutely looking for some reason to stop my son (who is learning to drive) and give him a ticket.
So, if we were Black, you KNOW it would have been attributed to racism. But, we shrugged it off as a cop who wanted to give a ticket (apparently our town is short on money and is encouraging cops to hand out more tickets.)
When someone is rude to me, I assume they are a rude person. A Black person assumes they are racist.
When I was a teenager, a woman accused me of stealing something from her that she’d accidentally left in the phone booth I was using. She insisted on searching my purse (she later found it in her OWN purse and apologized.) If I were Black, I would use that incident as an example of racism. As I’m White, I just remember it as a stupid woman who — if anything — was displaying “ageism.” (i.e. teenagers steal).
I understand that when someone has a bruise already, they tend to be easily hurt if hit in the same place. Blacks are already bruised from past racism.
But, it also means that they tend to see it EVERYWHERE, and ascribe standard rude behavior, standard inconvenience, standard suspicion, and standard actions to racism. The SAME behavior, etc. that the rest of us who are not Black shrug off every day.
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#15
I agree. As I said on another thread, there is a motorcycle cop in my town that is RUDE. I don’t like him. I’ve been stopped by him twice in 12 years, and given a ticket both times (once justified, and once not).
At any rate, I talk EXTREMELY politely to him and use “yes, sir” and “no, sir” and give him my ID and don’t argue, because he is the kind of guy who took the job because of its POWER. I could see him taking an argumentative person (of ANY color and ANY gender) down to the pavement. So, I don’t give him the chance.
That is standard behavior for most White people I know. Are we being subject to racism? Or do we just figure that a good, scathing letter after the fact or a complaint by phone to his superior is far safer?
NEVER challenge a cop in the heat of the moment.
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TRS She might have hung around and talked directly to Crowley.
But that’s not what Crowley said, and it’s not what he put in his report. What you say doesn’t help TRS’ credibility, even if true. Crowley lied about what he says Whaley told him that Whaley herself observed.
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Crowley’s credibility, sorry. But it doesn’t help your credibility, TRS, that you make up illogical excuses for Crowley’s inconsistencies.
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#76
Doesn’t help yours that you completely ignore the statements of the Black and Hispanic police officers that were with him.
Or that you insist on placing the blame squarely on him without even acknowledging that there might be any blame to lay elsewhere.
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I’m putting the blame for the false arrest square on Crowley, and on his chain of command for not stopping him. I give full weight to the statements of other cops, which confirm unanimously that Crowley yelled on the porch, and Crowley really did arrest him for it.
I understand that authoritarians prefer to blame victims of false arrest for their false arrest while praising cops for making false arrest. If that undermines my credibility with you, sorry.
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False arrest? There was no false arrest. Nothing in the case suggests false arrest. Crowley acted courageously. He acted heroically. Crowley is praise worthy. We should have a National Crowley Day. And we should write textbooks proclaiming that Crowley’s actions were the finest of the finest. We should have a yearly parade in his honor. We should thank goodness that we have Crowley.
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If a white president stated that a black cop acted “stupidly,” what would be the results?
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Racists would have a field day. Just like now.
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Racists of all colors take advantage of the opportunities they are offered. Some just have more opportunities than others.
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Scroop Moth: if you insist on interpreting things in a negative way, then the outcome will look negative. I don’t think you have much of an argument there: I can easily see other interpretations of the report.
RPN already made a good case for Crowley acting inappropriately to the situation, using arguments that were a bit more tangible.
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TJSCATLOVER: I may not have much of an argument, but it’s prevailed against all objections. RPN hasn’t posted on this thread, so your point about that is unclear. My argument is 100% tangible: the DA closed the case by refusing to prosecute and expressing regret, based entirely on police versions of the incident, which don’t show that a crime was committed.
How can it be racist to say some people acted stupidly?
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Sorry, Scroop Moth: I was referencing another thread on this issue (How many are we up to now??) when I brought up RPN’s argument.
The DA didn’t prosecute because, it’s true, no crime was really committed. That doesn’t mean Gates wasn’t acting inappropriately and, indeed, in a racist manner. Crowley, however, wasn’t racist, but rather simply heavy-handed and inappropriate in his arrest of Gates.
The comment of Obama’s, (where he says that Crowley acted “stupidly”), wasn’t racist, it was just inappropriate and foolish. Might have been true, but that doesn’t really excuse it.
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Anthony, that’s a pretty offensive post you put up there.
I’m a white cop, and I wouldn’t pull you over for any of the reasons you fear.
And if I did pull you over for committing an offense, I wouldn’t be so stupid as to question you about how you could afford a nice car.
Are you really serious about what you posted? ‘Cuz I don’t know ANY cops who would do that. Not in my ‘hood.
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On a lighter note, no-one has yet stopped me and asked me how I could afford to drive my dented, rusty 23 year old Toyota!
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Thorn, I live in a little bitty town on the plains of Colorado.
Of course there are fewer racists in my generation. (I think that’s the Generation Y you speak of). But there are still racists. For example, I played kickball once in PE, and the opposite team was losing. This kid on that team (who happened to be black started yelling, “We’re just losing because there’s a black man on this team, aren’t we?” No, smart one, it’s because we got more runners back to home base than you.
Though I see your point that most kids who use Jew as an insult are basically stupid, some of them really mean it.
My point is that there will always be racism, or some kind of prejudice, as long as there are two different people in a room.
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Some people are just plain jerks, and the color of their skin has nothing to do with it. Caucasion, of Aftican descent, Hispanic, or whatever else, a jerk is a jerk is a jerk. Being a jerk is not bound ny skin color, gender, or sexual orientation. Some people are just plain jerks. The REAL jerks want to play the discrimination card when they get caught being jerks or to excuse themselves when they act like jerks.
And maybe MY racist tendencies are coming out, but I have seen more vitriolic racism on the part of the traditionally oppressed races and other minorities desiring “special traatment” than of have from the ones traditionally doing the oppressing. I think racism had doubled back and is being applied without much criticism in the other direction, and it’s being ignored because of the belief that a) the oppressors deserve it because of the racism of their ancestors; b) the traditionally oppressed are still victims of the ghost of racism past, so they can’t ppossibly be racist themselves; c) collective feelings of guilt on the part of the traditional oppressors still haunted by the ghost of racism past; and d) a feeling by the traditionally oppressed that it is now the just desserts of the traditional oppressors.
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I did try to edit on screen: That should real “special treatment”.
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Prejudice happens all over America. My husband (who is black) has been stopped in a ritzy white neighborhood because he “didn’t seem to belong”. He’d been invited to a party, and the pseudo cop actually escorted him there and asked if the people there knew him. That was about 23 years ago. Would that happen today? Possibly.
He is now studying to be a paramedic, and he’s been to the college’s office and been treated like he’s stupid (he’s very intelligent and also went to a private school, so the black cadence is not part of his speech). The lady there kept asking, “Are you sure you’re supposed to be taking this?” She questioned him to the point that he felt she was obnoxious. Then a white girl, one who is out of shape, came in asking the same questions, and she wasn’t given a hassle. The lady knew neither of them before that encounter.
Does my husband wear it on his sleeve? No; he thought it laughable and pathetic. Does he try to get compensation for being “African American”, though his family were islanders? No. He despises when someone gets a leg up because of race, sex, etc.
Prejudice happens every day, in all aspects. It’s what you DO with it that matters.
Keep your head held high, Anthony and remember the important lesson from Gates Gate: Obama will jump into ANYTHING, even if he doesn’t know the situation.
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