Criticism does not = racism
Before Barack Obama ascended to the presidency, his supporters lauded the impact he could have in the nation’s highest office helping America “transcend race.” But in an ironic shift, writes National Review Online’s Jonah Goldberg, it is Obama’s supporters who are now working to cultivate the notion that ”if you question his tax policies, energy plans, or health-care ambitions, you are ‘hoping he will fail’ — and that, with the help of roundabout reasoning, is tantamount to hoping we cannot transcend race.”
For instance, actress Janeane Garofalo summed up the tea parties thusly: “This is about hating a black man in the White House. This is racism straight up.”
A more sophisticated version comes from Princeton professor Melissa Harris-Lacewell, who finds racism in complaints that socialized medicine would result in fewer Americans “taking responsibility” for their own health care. “What we know over the past 25 years,” she told NPR, “is that language of personal responsibility is often a code language used against poor and minority communities.” In an ABC News story about how racist white militias are somehow connected to town-hall protests, Mark Potok of the dismayingly left-wing Southern Poverty Law Center insists Obama has “triggered fears among fairly large numbers of white people in this country that they are somehow losing their country.”
But opposition doesn’t make someone a racist, notes ABC New’s John Stossel: “Come on. Every president eventually is criticized by the media – even one as ‘transcendent’ as Obama. The president’s supporters should engage his critics with facts, not charges of racism.” And ultimately, Goldberg writes, “transcending race would require treating Obama like any other president. Which is pretty much exactly what conservatives have been doing. Seriously, if Hillary Clinton were president, would conservatives really be rolling over for the same health-care plan because she’s white?”

















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back to top74 Comments to “Criticism does not = racism”
If Hillary were president we would all be accused of being sexist.
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Ms. Garafalo should take a page out of former Mayor Dinkins of NY’s book: he just told Gov. Paterson the same thing — that criticism isn’t racism.
“…Every president eventually is criticized by the media ….
Still waiting for that one!
I suppose, however, that the planned “counter-attack” to the resistance they’ve received regarding healthcare — their little bus tours, etc. where they will not let anyone ask a question they don’t approve — I suppose that’s fundamentally fair and American? Talk about wanting to control!
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Garafalo is wrong. Harris-Lacewell may have a point, though. We’ve seen in these very threads a number of people who insist that poor people — who are very often (though certainly not always) racial minorities — are “lazy” and looking for handouts. That is, if not racism, at least an uncharitable assumption.
As for the Southern Poverty Law Center, well, they exist to fight racism on legal fronts, and have successfully taken on the Klan, white supremacist militias and various other hate groups. If that is “dismayingly left wing,” well, count me in.
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“Racist” The good old standby if one cannot reason together, or one is losing to reason.
Blessings
Roger
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“We’ve seen in these very threads a number of people who insist that poor people — who are very often (though certainly not always) racial minorities — are “lazy” and looking for handouts. That is, if not racism, at least an uncharitable assumption.”
That’s a stretch, Steve G. (an uncharitable one, I might add) and would be offensive if what you or “Harris-Lacewell” think actually mattered.
There are no legitimate criticisms of the welfare state?
There are no legitimate criticisms of Obama’s policies?
If so, deal with them like a man honestly without throwing around charges of racism. If there are no legitimate criticisms of these things, then announce it so we’ll know whom to ignore.
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No, criticism doesn’t automatically equal racism. However, there are times when criticism isn’t delivered in the kindest way or even by someone that you consider has a valid agenda. This doesn’t invalidate the critism (if it’s constructive and not just griping).
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David L. Your comment is a non-sequitur. Of course there are legitimate criticisms of welfare and of course there are legitimate criticism of Obama’s policies.
However, insisting that people who need help are just lazy layabouts who only need to work harder is not a legitimate criticism. It suggests both abject ignorance of what life is like for America’s poor and a a lack of interest in learning anything or doing anything to help.
If so, deal with them like a man honestly without throwing around charges of racism.
How did I not do that?
I dismissed Garafolo’s accusation out of hand because it’s clearly ridiculous.
But the second point is, I think, partly true. I do not necessarily think it is racism per se, but it is quite clearly a prejudice of some sort. “People who want government aid are unwilling to take personal responsibility.” How is that not prejudice?
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I can’t explain it or help it that SteveG seems to think that that conservative think that some or many racial minorities are “lazy.” That’s nothing but SteveG’s judmentalism and apparent bigrty agaqinst conservatives. But when I refer to “lazy” people, I only mean “lazy” people. I think the same is true of most conservatives I know.
In my view, whatever standards we conservatives have for hard work applies equally to all people regardless of race or ethnicity.
____________
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If Princeton professor Melissa Harris-Lacewell finds racism in complaints that socialized medicine would result in fewer Americans “taking responsibility” for their own health care, then Harris-Lacewell is finding that racism exclusively in her own heart and projecting HER racism and bigotry on to others whom she mistrusts and disrespects.
If Harris-Lacewell thinks that “taking responsibility” is code for racism in any way, then she is the one who is carrying racist presumption into this debate. Shame on her.
Does Harris-Lacewell not think that minorities are even capable of taking personal responsibility? That’s ridiculous.
Why can’t liberals disagree honorably with the right?
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“If so, deal with them like a man honestly without throwing around charges of racism.”
How did I not do that?
I meant to direct that comment broadly to everyone who responds to criticism by alleging racism, not to you individually.
You charged that this blog is full of commenters who insist “that people who need help are just lazy layabouts who only need to work harder,” but I really haven’t seen the comments to justify that conclusion. As Joel Mark said, this sounds more like a prejudicial attitude towards conservatives than a legitimate point.
Besides, laziness, I think you can agree, transcends race. Although, I now have to add, laziness can be a legitimate criticism at certain times, too.
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ROGER #4 makes a good point. If all else fails, cry “racism”.
STEVEG does make assumptions in his post#3 but he’s not accusing “people” on this blog of racism (I didn’t take it that way anyway),just that we’re “uncharitable” in our own assumptions.
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SteveG,
I thought that most welfare recipients were white. Does that make me, a white conservative, racist against whites?
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It seems to be racism to assume that most people on welfare are minorities. Most of the lazy “won’t work” bums I know are white.
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DEET, SteveG was validating what that Princeton professor said–attributing presumed racist motivation for a legitimate value-laden phrase like “taking responsibility.” That is uncalled for because it is so unfounded and uncharitable toward legitimate, healthy and well-intentioned criticism.
What on earth is wrong with calling each other to take more personal responsibility?
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KBells: I was thinking the same thing (13). Yes, I do some people who simply don’t have because they are lazy. I know others who need help for numerous reasons. My family needed help, also, at one time. The fact is, that unless we have been through some situations, we have a hard time understanding.
The racism charge is too easily used lately. It undermines true racsim.
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Quote from Joel Mark #8:
“In my view, whatever standards we conservatives have for hard work applies equally to all people regardless of race or ethnicity.”
Could you please elaborate?
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JoelMark Does Harris-Lacewell not think that minorities are even capable of taking personal responsibility? That’s ridiculous.
Good thing she’s not saying that, then. She’s saying it’s inaccurate and indicative of prejudice for people to diagnose “lack of responsibility” as the chief cause of need.
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This Spring, I witnessed an elderly white man in a large and busy cafeteria shout the N-word against Obama. Social scientists have inferred that large numbers of borderers from Appalachia to Oklahoma voted for McCain on account of race. The cohort of racists is too rich for Republican activists to ignore.
Our own Mindy Belz gave aid and comfort to birthers here by telling them that Obama himself is to blame that people disbelieve his citizenship. Is she a racist? Who cares. She thinks Obama’s origins are game.
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We will only live in a post-racial America when the race baiters on either side either shut up or are no longer given media face time. As long as the Jessie Jacksons, ir-”Reverend” Sharptons and David Dukes are seen and heard, people will think of race first. And as long as those academicians and politicians who put racial references in their statements are quoted, then we will all presume there is still racism in America.
To me, it seems (note those words) the left is using the racial card more often lately. No wonder people think we are racist.
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Jonah Goldberg is hawking his books on Ann Coulter’s corner. His technique is to accuse Democrats of all the Republicans’ vices. Last time, he argued that socialism is inherently fascist, as Nazis were socialists.
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The entire OBama agenda was originally rejected in the primaries when it was being touted/advanced by John Edwards. At most, both sides must concede that OBama (like the actress Halle Berry) is best deemed a BINO [black in name only]. Ea of them were abandoned by their black father and raised by white moms. You could make the argumt I spoze that had Barack’s daddy hung around then perhaps BHO might not ever have achieved all he did in life. Stanley Ann Dunham by the accounts I’ve read was quite a flake, but she loved her son and taught him well.
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20. I think he argued it very well. You guys need to accept the fact that you no longer have total control of the media and now must prove your “everybody knows” accusation.
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“This is about hating a black man in the White House. This is racism straight up.”
Well one out of two ain’t bad. She’s got 50% of it right, or a stopped clock is right twice a day… or.. something.
She’s certainly racist. But it’s got nothing to do with hating a black man in the White House.
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There are lazy people in every economic class. With the rich, we don’t have to pay their way.
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SteveG,
If, as you claim, Melissa Harris-Lacewell was merely saying that it’s inaccurate and indicative of prejudice for people to diagnose “lack of responsibility” as the chief cause of need, then she is still generalizing unfairly. The fact is that in SOME cases, that diagnosis may be unfair or indicative of prejudice and in SOME case it is not! Many forms of need do indeed rise from “a lack of responsibility.” It is Harris-Lacewell who is importing presumptions about race. She may be right or wrong in particulat cases, but she needs MORE evidence than some phrase about “taking responsibility.”
What Jonah Goldberg is claiming is that Harris-Lacewell in finding racism in complaints that socialized medicine would result in fewer Americans “taking responsibility” for their own health care. That’s an unfair presumption. If she is finding racism anywhere, she needs better evidence, in any and every case, than simply the mere fact that a critic of Obama’s plan may be talking about “taking responsibility.”
Harris-Lacewell actually said to NPR; “What we know over the past 25 years… is that language of personal responsibility is often a code language used against poor and minority communities.”
That stinks. It’s a bigoted presumption to see any racial notions in the mere phrase “taking responsibility.”
Taking tresponsibility is “code” for taking responsibility.
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John Stott’s definition of work:
“Work is the expenditure of energy, (manual, mental or both), in the service of others, which brings fulfilment to the worker, benefit to the community and glory to God.”
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Goldberg wrote;
* “Suddenly, if conservatives want to transcend race, we have to agree to massive increases in the size of government and socialized medicine. That’s not transcending race, it’s using Obama’s race to bully the opposition into acquiescence.”
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Scroop Moth,
Yes, racism does exist. But the fact that whites voted almost equally for Obama and McCain would make it seem that it is not that widespread in whites. The fact that around 90% of blacks voted for Obama would suggest differently for blacks.
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You must play the last card you have in your hand. Who’s surprised it’s the only one being used?
If you didn’t expect these empty racism charges in an attempt to prop up this administration when it began to fail to sell its’ radical agenda, you’ve not been paying close enough attention.
What’s funny is how often they must toss that card and how much more empty are the charges every time it’s tossed.
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“Every president eventually is criticized by the media – even one as ‘transcendent’ as Obama.”
There is nothing ‘transcendent’ as was mentioned in the leading post about Obama – The only way in which that definition fits would be, “beyond limits of experience” … he had no experience, it has become embarrassingly clear as each day goes by.
His academic records are unavailable as are other records of Obama’s past.
The race card issue has no effect on people any longer. It is not his race, it’s his lack of ability. Obama believed and still does, that every single problem can be solved with money, that’s one of his biggest problems – that’s how he sees the world.
Obama doesn’t look for logical answers, he looks for stacks of cash – Can anyone reflect back on what this man does without seeing his obsession of taking from whomever he can, and throwing it at every problem that exists? That’s his plan in a nutshell.
It is NOT a race issue, it’s a mind set issue which Obama has learned from childhood. Read his two books over again since he’s been in office – the writing was on the wall from the beginning.
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Any one honest, would recognize that in fact some of those opposing Obama also carry a bit of racism. I’m not sure how big a group that is, but it is there.
That said, the charge of “racism” is also one of those demonization terms, this time from the left. As a term of invective it is hardly different from the dismissal say of any criticism of the past president (Rep. King, anyone?) as unpatriotic. Same rhetorical ploy.
Accusing one side of demonization while indulging in the vice yourself — ah, that would be the story of politics, wouldn’t it?
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Harris writes; “Any one honest, would recognize that in fact some of those opposing Obama also carry a bit of racism.”
Prove it, Harris. Is that too much to ask? Give us specific examples and justify the chrage fairly and reasonably.
Harris continued; “I’m not sure how big a group that is, but it is there.”
Harris, you are “creating” an alleged “group.” Please prove it or stop it.
Am I denying that racism may be involved in the opposition or support some are expressing to Obama’s plan? No, I am neither affirming or denying that either way for any “group.” I am saying that such serious charges shoup be specifically made and supported on a case-by-case basis without using “group-smear” tactics.
______________
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It is not Obama’s race that is repugnant. In fact his race is about the only thing about Obama that si not repugnant. The rest of him. His agenda, his marxist socialist communist philosophy, his desire to see infanticide, his immorality, his lying, his disregard for the military, and his general hatred for all things American make Barack one of the most if not the most repugnant president in the history of the US.
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Fuzzy Face. Blacks voting for Obama didn’t indicate racism. Whites voting against him did.
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“The racism charge is too easily used lately. It undermines true racism.”
Yes, it’s going to be like the little boy who cried “wolf.” Use it too often, and no one’s going to believe it anymore, even when true.
Already, it is starting to sound like some old political canard to the point that people are just going to start dismissing it out-of-hand. And, what a shame that will be when it really is true and ought to be dealt with.
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#34
That is one of the most ridiculous comments I’ve seen.
It goes right up there with “Only Whites can be racist.”
And, it is beyond silly to assume that Whites voting against Obama represent anything more than not liking his policies, unless you have proof of something else.
Your statement implies that all Whites who voted against Obama were racists. I would hope even you couldn’t believe that.
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“That is one of the most ridiculous comments I’ve seen.”
But THEY believe what Scroopy wrote.
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Oh that’s brilliant!
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Scroop writes:
“Blacks voting for Obama didn’t indicate racism. Whites voting against him did.”
Again with the generalizations that we’re criticising this person for in the first place. Yeah, there are white folks who voted against Obama because they were racist. And there were white folks like me who voted against him because of his policies, and skin color had nothing to do with it.
By the same token there were folks who voted for him because of his skin color. And that’s just as racist as the white folks who voted against him for the same reason.
You can’t have it both ways Scroop. Either it’s racist for anyone (regardless of their own skin color) to vote because of skin color or it’s not.
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You mean Scoop was SERIOUS?? I assumed he was being facetious and sarcastic.
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Playing the presumptive race card to smear criticism of Obama’s Health Care plan is desperate. But beyond race, there are some faith-based concerns that also need to be raised to justify criticism of this plan.
If a Catholic college won’t allow abortion, sterilization, and contraception to be covered by its employees’ health care plan, should they be punished or excluded from a plan? Should any institution be forced to cover alleged “health” claims that go against their convictions and conscience?
The U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission is calling one Catholic college “sexist” for standing by their conviction of conscience (according to a recent commentary by Chuck Colson).
Here are some other violations of the right of believers to follow their conscience:
* “In Boston, Catholic Charities was forced out of the adoption business because it would not place children with homosexual couples.”
* “Christian fertility doctors have been sued because they refused artificial insemination to a lesbian—even though they referred her to another doctor.”
* “Christian pharmacists have lost their jobs for not distributing morning-after pills.”
When or if gov’t takes over and controls the health care of more and more citizens, such violations can only increase. According to Colson: “Congress, after all, has rejected every attempt to include language to protect the consciences of medical professionals in the health care debate.”
Colson continued:
* “It’s sad to me that we have reached a state where we must insist on laws that specifically protect religious freedom and freedom of conscience from government bureaucracy. Silly me, that’s what I thought the Constitution was for.”
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Gotcha!
It’s theoretically possible for blacks to be racists, as was speculated in the movie, White Man’s Burden. But in the event, racism didn’t cause blacks to vote for Obama, except in people’s imaginations.
It’s possible for whites to stop being racists, as many clearly have. But in the event, enough whites are still motivated by racism to skew the election results in many states.
Anyone can be a racist and anyone can be tolerant, but that doesn’t mean that racial prejudice and the power to be racist are equally distributed.
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“But in the event, racism didn’t cause blacks to vote for Obama, except in people’s imaginations.”
Authoritative are you? You have some proof of that?
I’d bet my bottom dollar that Jackson, Sharpton, Farakhan, and Wright all voted for Obama because of skin color.
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The point is that any charge of racism should be backed up with specific evidence, observed, stated and/or revealed in the immediate context of the case in question. Let’s stop presuming motive on weak grounds and STOP trying to smear groups, whatever their skin color or party identities. Prove all charges and don’t smear the innocent (members of some conveniently defined group) with that charge, even if it is proven in an isolated case.
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“But in the event, racism didn’t cause blacks to vote for Obama, except in people’s imaginations.”
Oh, so you’re actually going with the idea that 98% or whatever of black people approved of Obama over any competitors? Really.
“It’s possible for whites to stop being racists, as many clearly have.”
So all whites start from a position of racism, do we, and have to work at it, vote Democrat, and approve of socialism to overcome it? That’s not racist at all. /sarcasm
“But in the event, enough whites are still motivated by racism to skew the election results in many states.”
What? As if. Some people didn’t see Obama’s clear divinity, and dared to vote against his glory, so of course they were skewing the results? Honestly.
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“It’s possible for whites to stop being racists, as many clearly have.”
– is it possible for black’s to stop being racists, as in Wright’s case?
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Look, I’m sure Obama’s a great guy. His kids are probably well-behaved, his wife loves him, he loves her, he’s a great host, and a generally nice person. That being said, I’ll start supporting Obama when he stops promoting abortion and cultivating our national debt.
Silly grownups. Everyone knows that generalizations make people mad, no matter what they generalize.
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Victoria! I’m surprised at you. Honestly. Isn’t it possible for God to change anyone’s heart? Even good ol’ Rev. Wright?
That was racism.
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Criticism does not = racism
Birthers + death threats + Hitler references + assault rifles at rallies + Barack the Magic Negro = racism
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#50
Birthers are not racist. They legitimately question something that hasn’t been adequately addressed.
Hitler references are to OBAMA: not because the people themselves support fascism, but because they feel his policies are leading to a fascist state.
The Assault rifle at a rally was being carried by a BLACK man.
I’ve never even heard your last phrase. Sure, someone, somewhere probably said it, but it’s such a small minority, I can’t imagine why it would mean a thing in a country of millions.
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Opinionated teen – 49 — YOU WRITE:… “That was racism.”
I asked a question in my post number 47 – nothing racist about a question -
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TRS: Birthers are not racist. They legitimately question something that hasn’t been adequately addressed.
If a copy of the official birth certificate, statements from Hawaii officials that it’s legitimate and contemporaneous birth announcements in both Honolulu newspapers is not enough to adequately address a non-issue, nothing is going to satisfy you.
It’s just the lunatic-fringe issue of the current era, just as the claim that Bush knew 9/11 was coming and allowed was the lunatic-fringe issue of the past one, and the idea that Clinton had Vince Foster rubbed out was of the one before that.
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If one believes that one’s ancestors and one’s family have been oppressed by those of another color, and that the effects of that oppression linger is it racist to argue that one is entitled to some extra consideration that those of the oppressing color are not entitled to?
If one believes that those of another race are dumber or stupider or more violent or more irresponsible than those of one’s own race, is it racist to legislate in accordance with those precepts?
I respectfully submit that the answer to #1 is no and the answer to #2 is yes.
White racism is born of stereotypes.
Black “racism”, which has become a code word for those opposed to affirmative action, has *almost* nothing to do with stereotypes about white people.
Yes, there are some Blacks who hold and promote negative images of “Whitey”, but my impression is that relates more to “Whitey’s” role as oppressor and boss, rather than stereotypical views of Whites as being dumber, more violent, more immoral, etc.
My point is simply that enforcing a preferential legislative scheme may affect races differently without being “racist”. I also don’t think it can be gainsaid that the effects of Jim Crow laws and other more sordid pieces of American history linger, but I know there are some who at least profess to take issue with that claim.
Much is made by conservatives of the need for equal treatment.
But when one portion of the populace has been denied equality for so long, I see nothing wrong with seeking to remedy the effects of that treatment. Yes, some Whites will be denied absolute equality. But compared to the centuries of enforced inequality dramatically imparing Blacks’ abiltity even dream the American Dream, much less achieve it, that effect on Whites in general and society overall is de minimis and limited in time.
And to call it racist is to deliberately muddy the waters of what is really going on.
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#54 Arcadia My point is simply that enforcing a preferential legislative scheme may affect races differently without being “racist”.
True. For example, programs that focus on income levels have nothing to do with ethnicity. But programs that give preferential treatment based on “race”, i.e. ethnicity are racist.
For this reason Affirmative Action is racist. Anyone who supports Affirmative Action supports racism.
So once again we have the indomitable logic of left that promotes racism to rid the world of racism.
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I have to go along with Scroop Moth and say that 90% of blacks voting for Obama does not indicate racism. Blacks vote for the Democrat 90% or more of the time regardless of the color of the candidate’s skin. I guess you could say they are “party-ist”.
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Don’t worry! The White House has just appointed an FCC Diversity Czar Mark Lloyd who will “fix” the social injustice of the air waves. He wrote the June 2007 report entitled “The Structural Imbalance of Political Talk Radio.”
And if that wasn’t enough, the White House has also appointed a self described communist Anthony Van Jones as Green Czar. He is a Bay Area radical ex-con agitator and committed Marxist-Leninist-Maoist, who waged war on the police and capitalist system. Jones is the founder of Green For All, an organization focused on creating green jobs in “impoverished areas”. He will be handing out new green jobs based on skin color.
Explain to me how racist diversity laws and racial preferences will rid the world of racism?
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Yes, yes it is.
I’ll agree that yes, it is.
I love how these two paragraphs contradict each other. Plus, it’s not so much black people’s “Whitey” stereotypes that are the real issue: it is the stereotype that all white people are inherently racist, such as is beautifully exhibited by Scroop Moth above.
No it can’t. Thus: “preferential.”
The only place it lingers is in the history books and the minds of those who want to be perpetual victims and won’t. let. it. go. Racism is the rare exception, and has been for the last couple generations.
And liberals aren’t for equal treatment? I thought that was the main argument behind such jokes as affirmative action? Are you trying to tell me they just do it for the lulz? Or maybe you just let slip who’s really racist in the debate.
It’s been remedied.
That’s not racist at all. (/sarcasm) Plus, it undermines the entire point of the civil rights movement.
So it’s perfectly okay to be racist, as long as it’s against white people, because we all have some arbitrary debt to pay for what other people with the same skin color did long before we were born? I’m sorry, I didn’t realize I was to be convicted of every crime a white person has ever done. Shame on me for daring to be white. I’ll just go prostrate myself before Jesse Jackson and beg his forgiveness for the terrible crime of my skin color. Plus, it seems to me that I remember some speech about having a dream of equality in the midst of inequality….
No, calling it racist is the truth. What you’re doing is the muddying.
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The fact that some racists voted against Obama doesn’t make the rest of us who voted against him racist. Of course there are still a few white racist in the world and of course they are not going to like Obama. I bet they don’t like Condolezza Rice or Michael Steel either.
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Birthers [fringe idiots] + death threats [fringe idiots] + Hitler references [Bush-hitler ... who said that? Anyone? Beuller?] + assault rifles at rallies [heh ... never mind the guy with the gun was black] + Barack the Magic Negro [um... are you happy just making stuff up now?] = racism
Yup. That’s a pretty strong equation. Back to the kiddie table you go. You’ll like it. Garafolo has some half-chewed peas, and is ready for a game of see-food! It’ll be right up your alley.
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42. “But in the event, enough whites are still motivated by racism to skew the election results in many states.”
Can you prove that?
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Arcadia asked; “If one believes that one’s ancestors and one’s family have been oppressed by those of another color, and that the effects of that oppression linger, is it racist to argue that one is entitled to some extra consideration that those of the oppressing color are not entitled to?”
ABOSLUTELY! That is probably the most classic and pure description of racism humanly possible.
____________________________
1. Colors don’t oppress.
2. No one (and no group) has existed who was not oppressed. The ongoing opportunistic resentment over such things is the key to unhappiness.
3. Presuming an entitlement on such racist grounds is itself a form of oppression of others.
4. Most ‘oppression’ rhetoric of this sort comes from neo-Marxist presumptions.
5. Ancestors, by definition, are dead and gone. They cannot be punished here on earth any more. Punishing innocent descendants based on skin color is racist. This would lead to legalistic mathematical calculations to find what percentage of certain racial ancestor’s blood you may have to establish degrees of culpability.
6. Ancestor disparagement as an excuse for oppressing the innocent is reprehensible. Ancestor worship makes more sense than that.
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SG: Barack the Magic Negro [um... are you happy just making stuff up now?]
Umm … were you asleep in 2007?
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Yeah, SteveG. Guess I was, in the sense that I wasn’t apparently paying enough attention to idiocy on either side at the time. Is my cultural illiteracy showing? It didn’t even register.
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On the other hand, I did notice what must have been an anomaly on this particular site, which is probably not representative, which means it’s as generalizable as KWatson’s tripe above.
Pop quiz:
Who is the only person on this site to defend that his/her vote for the president was based in part on the color of his skin?
a) Night Train
b) Anlir
c) NJ Lawyer
d) Make it Man
….
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Steve, you are aware that that term came from the LA Times?
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66. And that SNL had already done a skit that said almost exactly the same thing as the song?
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OK. I’ve got to get some sleep, so here’s the answer:
“One of the reasons I voted for Obama is because he’s black. I did so because (a) it’s time we had a black man as President, and (b) to counteract those who refuse to vote for him because he’s black.”
[comment #13]
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KBells, yes I know that. I was responding to SG’s suggestion in #50 that KWatson was “making stuff up.” It happened.
We’ve already had threads on it, long ago when it was still actually news, and there’s no need to rehash that. I was only pointing out that it actually did happen.
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Correction: SG’s post was #60. #50 was KWatson’s.
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Well, I know I didn’t vote for Obama and I never said that quote.
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JoelMark: Drivel.
1. Colors don’t oppress.
Never said they did. How can a color do anything?
2. No one (and no group) has existed who was not oppressed. The ongoing opportunistic resentment over such things is the key to unhappiness.
One key to happines is respect and equality. The key to unhappiness is disrespect, inequality, and unfairness. If you desperately needed a job and an employer refused to hire you because you are a “bible thumper”, what would you do? If I start calling you vile names, arrest you because you are a Christian or lynch one of your family members because he or she is, what would you do? Would your resentment be “opportunistic”? And if someone told you just to forget about it because
3. Presuming an entitlement on such racist grounds is itself a form of oppression of others.
Completely ignores my point that such effects are limited in time and scope.
4. Most ‘oppression’ rhetoric of this sort comes from neo-Marxist presumptions.
No content, simply name-calling.
5. Ancestors, by definition, are dead and gone. They cannot be punished here on earth any more. Punishing innocent descendants based on skin color is racist. This would lead to legalistic mathematical calculations to find what percentage of certain racial ancestor’s blood you may have to establish degrees of culpability.
Once again, totally ignores the limited nature of the argument.
And I don’t understand what you are talking about in the last sentence.
6. Ancestor disparagement as an excuse for oppressing the innocent is reprehensible. Ancestor worship makes more sense than that.
“Ancestor disparagement”? You mean acknowledging that for 250 years of our history white people who controlled everything by and large kept black people from wealth and power, usually at gun or noose point?
And once again, I do acknowledge that a few whites will suffer unfairly. Very few, and only until some of the mathematics you seem to despise show improvement. And no, I can’t say when that will be, but I am convinced that the process is well underway. We did not have a black middle class when I was born. Now we do.
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“One key to happines is respect and equality. The key to unhappiness is disrespect, inequality, and unfairness. If you desperately needed a job and an employer refused to hire you because you are a “bible thumper”, what would you do? If I start calling you vile names, arrest you because you are a Christian or lynch one of your family members because he or she is, what would you do? Would your resentment be “opportunistic”?”
Arcadia, none of this happens to black people, or at least such behavior, when found, (rarely) is not tolerated. The resentment is
pportunistic” because they’re just crying “racist” over the most ridiculous things: for example, criticizing Obama. It’s fine to acknowledge “that for 250 years of our history white people who controlled everything by and large kept black people from wealth and power, usually at gun or noose point,” but that doesn’t mean we should punish white people for something that happened before anyone that is now alive was born. We are making progress, and that is admirable. But that progress is in spite of, not due to, preferential legislation, affirmative action, crying “racist” at every inconvenience and criticism, etc.
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TJS: I’m conflicted on things like preferential treatment, but I don’t think the harm ended with slavery or even Jim Crow. There were many generations where racial minorities were unable to accumulate much wealth to pass on to their descendants. Blacks today are often still suffering the disadvantage borne by their ancestors’ oppression. Just because they don’t live under conditions as bad as their forebears does not mean they yet have equal opportunity.
But on the other hand, your point that white people today are not responsible for what their ancestors did is also true.
So, as I said, conflicted.
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