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NIV to get update
On Tuesday, Alisa blogged about the TNIV and how its translators now admit the gender-neutral edition was a mistake. That same day, Biblica, a Colorado Springs, Colo.-based Christian ministry that holds the NIV copyright, announced that a newly revised NIV is slated to be released in 2011. It will be the first revision in 25 years for the top-selling Bible in North America.
Among the anticipated changes will be revisions that reflect modifications in English usage and advances in Biblical scholarship. According to Keith Danby, global president and CEO of Biblica, approximately 90 percent of the NIV will remain unchanged.
Acknowledging past missteps, the NIV’s overseers are promising that this time, the revision process will be more transparent and that they will actively promote what they describe as a long-held practice of inviting input from scholars and readers.
For more on the anticipated revision, click here.
EDITOR’S NOTE: In the post on Tuesday referred to above, WorldMagBlog quoted from a post at Christianity Today’s blog that the writer later had to adjust a bit. With CT, we apologize for that misleading detail. The main point of the several stories, however, remains fully accurate. See WORLD’s coverage in next week’s magazine for a fuller report.
back to top49 Comments to “NIV to get update”
I thought I would re-post this here:
I just had to provide this link from a brother at the Logos Bible Software forum. He is starting a new translation called “Fill In The Blank”.
I think everyone here will enjoy his example for various reasons!
http://www.morethancake.org/2009/09/fill-in-the-blanks-bible.html
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Speaking of pet peeves, I hope that they will capitalize pronouns that make reference to God.
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We go back and forth on that in publishing, Tychicus. I like to see God and his various “forms” capitalized but strict editors make the pronouns lower case. You can do anything you want in your own book, however. Usually.
Sadly funny example Brother Dan.
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BROTHERDAN, I really liked Chapter 3, the “invented fossil fuels and guns” suggestion.
Silliness aside, the denial of God’s Word began with “Hath God really said….” a long time ago.
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From what I have heard (I have an Old Testament scholar in my family) some of the gender neutral changes were appropriate.
Also, make sure you are getting this right. Do they acknowledge missteps in scholarship, or in business/marketing?
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Can we get one “CORRECT” version of the inspired word of god, please?
You would think that the god could instruct it’s translators to at least get the bloody thing right the first time or the second time or maybe even the third time. See, it’s not so inspired after all. It’s translated (and written) by men who make mistakes and then insist it can’t be wrong. Pathetic god and zombie followers.
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Tychicus: Why? When Allah does something should “He” also be capitalized? How about Zeus?
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Scott: All followers have their own versions. All other followers are heretics. As it was in the beginning…
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Since it’s against the rules to call Arcadia stupid (I’ve gotten one email, and I learned my lesson. I’m not calling her stupid now.. just asking a question) can we also make a rule against inane comments? A rule that carries the same penalty as the rule against personal insults? The effect on the conversation is, after all, equivalent.
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Please get the facts straight. From the Christianity Today page:
“Note: An earlier version of this blog post said that Keith Danby’s remark that “some of the criticism was justified and we need to be brutally honest about the mistakes that were made” was in regard to the Today’s New International Version. He was discussing the earlier New International Version Inclusive Language Edition, released in the U.K. in 1996. I sincerely apologize for the error.”
The translators did not say they made a mistake to put out a gender-neutral edition of the TNIV. I think a correction should be made here too.
Jeff
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Arcadia: If the writers of other holy books choose to capitalize, they of course can do so. However, there is only one true God (Deut 6:4; I Cor 8:4), and I believe He is certainly worthy of that (albeit small) capital-letter honor.
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GOD’s name, HIS Son and the Holy Spirit are upper case in translations – I wouldn’t buy a translation if God’s name, Jesus, Christ, Spirit of God were not captialized – the Bible is the most important book on earth to a Christian, to minimize the Trinity by using lower case is insulting to our LORD.
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He is indeed a Jealous god.
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Jealous enough to want to free you from the bondage of sin and death!
Blessings
Roger
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Or, depending on what day of the week it is, to drown me and my entire family because of what others have done. Some freedom!
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A modern-day* retrospective allegory.
http://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/02/how-dr-cook-scooped-the-times
* – When most folks were literate, all speaking the same language and communicating electronically.
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“Or … to drown me…” It’s your choice (”He that comes to me I will in no wise cast out”).
“…because of what others have done.” Are you suggesting you’re perfect?
“Some freedom!” If a fish tries to be free of water, it loses its freedom. Your trying to be free of any connection with God is similar.
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I pray you don’t miss the right day of your week.
Blessings
Roger
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Concerning physicians. 2 Chronicles 16:12 is my first stop IF I get sick. Only then will I consult a doctor. Perhaps by chance I have not been ill, except for slight colds for I don’t know how long. I do trust God’s promises. And before the naysayers get started, I do believe in doctors.
Blessings
Roger
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Buzzy: Are you suggesting you’re perfect?
Nope. I lie, I cheat, I’m selfish, vain, greedy, and whatever else nasty that comes with being human. (I do take issue with “stupid” as another poster learned.)
I also have good parts, have done and will do go good things. It is most likely they which sustain me.
But do I need the self-interested, conflicted and arrogant interpreters of a mythical creature’s musings to tell me the difference? To scare me with tales of drowning and brimstone? To permit me to deride others and tell them how to live? To call out incantations, and light candles against my own darkness.
Nope.
As the button says, “Born okay the first time”.
Or maybe, Buzzy, I’ve just learned how to breathe. Try it some time. A little fresh air is good for you. Very freeing.
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I wonder how Victoria knows that god is insulted by non-capitalization of it’s name? Is there a biblical citation for this or is it just simply pleasant homage to her mother goose? Doesn’t it have better things to worry about, like curing disease or sending hurricanes to chase the gays out of New Orleans or stopping abortions it detests so much?
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Roger – that’s good, since there’s credible evidence that they do exist.
Arcadia – I’m a fresh air fanatic. How did you know?
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Scott,
God inspired and providentially preserved HIS Word perfect in the Bible. It is thus sacred, infallible and final authority.
“But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth [therein], he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.” (Jas 1:25)
Here, get yourself one..
bibleprotector.com
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Scott,
As far as gays..
God delivers fornicators, homosexuals, adulterers, etc. from the penalty and power of sin. Through HIS provision, they get the victory over those old sins.
They have a new identity..
“Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.” (2Co 5:17)
…the royal sons and daughters of the King of Kings..
“And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.” (2Co 6:18)
“[This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.” (Ga 5:16)
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Scott,
As far as abortion..Herod took a step further..
“Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men.” (Mt 2:16)
Not good…
“In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;” (2Th 1:8-9)
Thus, don’t show up before God without THE Advocate.
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I don’t like having pronouns capitalized. It makes it harder to read and hurts my head. It reminds me of the endless standing, sitting, kneeling in a Catholic church. It’s up; it’s down. It is a man made tradition that neither adds nor detracts from the message.
Since the Bible hasn’t changed and Zondervan needs to make money, they must keep coming up with creative ways to make new Bibles that people will buy. I don’t care about any of the gimmicks. I stuck with KJV for my whole life, but am really enjoying the accuracy and readability of the ESV.
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To me, capitalizing the pronouns that make reference to God is a simple sign of respect. It’s a bit like holding the door open for women, or, as a child at least, referring to adults as Mr. and Mrs. It is always rather jarring to me when people don’t capitalize the relevant pronouns, and it indicates a certain lack of respect.
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Arcadia: what do you mean: your good deeds “sustain” you? Sustain you through what? For what?
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Yes, MYTOOSENSE, and a little green man lives in the elm tree in my yard. Thanks, but I have my very own bible right here, it’s underneath the qur’an at the moment.
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Scott – 21
I use upper case for God’s name, Jesus, Christ LORD, Spirit – it’s out of respect for HIM, and who HE is.
I used upper case for your name Scott.
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Scott,
The infallible Bible is THE final authority on the Person, Life, and Work of Jesus Christ.
The qur’an is not.
When quranicists get saved, they then know what WE KNOW..
“And WE KNOW that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, [even] in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.” (1Jo 5:20)
And also, without God, there are no elm trees.
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MYTOOSENSE, I hope you don’t think I am muslim? I am not. I think, like you probably, that it’s a disgusting “religion”. I bet we’re very similar in our positions on Islam, but that’s just my speculation. Now, apply that position to christianity and you understand, and can sympathize, if you’re honest, with my position. By the way, my bible is on top of my book of mormon.
Victoria, capitalizing Scott is just proper grammar. Besides that, I don’t care if you type scott or Scott or scotT. I presume that you don’t REALLY know that “our Lord” is insulted by typing it lord, god, he, she, it, her, him, or whatever. It is just petty homage to a ghost that you worship, plain and simple. I am not “insulted” by it, why would he be insulted by it?
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Victoria, do you capital Mother Goose out of respect for her. How about the Flying Spaghetti Monster, do you respect him also. And Allah, does it get your respect too?
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Scott, correct me if I’m wrong, but I didn’t think anyone was asking you to capitalize the appropriate pronouns. You don’t believe in God, thus you have no real reason to.
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Right Catlover, EXCEPT you said It’s a bit like holding the door open for women, or, as a child at least, referring to adults as Mr. and Mrs. It is always rather jarring to me when people don’t capitalize the relevant pronouns, and it indicates a certain lack of respect I can assure you it’s NOT at all like that for me. I hold the door open for women (and men) and I called adults Mr. and Mrs. and I sometimes still do. Those things are respect, but it’s NOTHING like capitalizing him when referring to the god of the bible. It’s nothing like that at all.
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It is a sign of respect, Scott, it’s just one that you don’t use because you don’t respect God. It is like that for people who do.
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Catlover – I respect God, but I don’t capitalize pronouns. Capitalization of the word “lord” or “Lord” is different, as it indicates a different word being translated. For example, some versions of the Bible translate the tetragrammaton (YHVH) with the ‘L’ capital and the ‘ord’ in small-caps.
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Buzzy: That’s fine, I was mainly referring to pronouns and such anyway, inside and outside of the Bible. It’s certainly not foundational to the Christian faith or anything, you’re free to disagree: I’m just saying that I do it out of respect, and I tend to expect it from my Bible.
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Dear Scott,
I prefer the lower-case spelling of “troll.” Please consider this a gesture of intentional disrespect {:~)
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Again, please get your facts straight.
Jeff
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#30 Victoria. We’re talking about pronouns, not proper nouns. Of course we capitalize proper nouns.
#27 TJS I agree that the purpose of capitalizing pronouns is to show respect. But the Greek texts don’t capitalize the pronouns, nor do any translations until the 20th century.
I don’t like to wear a tie to church. Some people think I am showing a lack of respect to God. To me, I am simply not wearing a tie. I think this is the same thing.
I think it is perfectly fine for you to have a Bible that capitalizes, because it suits you. I am merely pointing out that Christians for the last 2000 years found it unnecessary. To me it’s a gimmick in the endless search for ways to market an unchanging book. If people like it that’s fine, I am just glad all translators don’t feel obligated.
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According to Zondervan’s CEO Kieth Danby, the mistakes that were made have nothing to do with the translation itself. He says,
“We failed to make the case for revisions and we made some important errors in the way we brought the translation to publication. We also underestimated the scale of the public affection for the NIV and failed to communicate the rationale for change in a manner that reflected that affection.”
So no one is apologizing for creating a distorted translation of the Word of God. They are apologizing for not marketing it better.
Doug Moo, chairman of the the Committee on Bible Translation says “I don’t think any member [of CBT] would stand by the NIVi today,” Moo said. “But we feel much more comfortable about the TNIV.” He expects many of the TNIV’s changes to appear in the updated NIV.”
So it sounds like Zondervan will be going full steam ahead on the new NIV 2011 edition which will be another politically correct mistranslation. I am waiting for animal rights language and eco-warrior terms to be included.
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Xion-26
The skeptical side of me wonders if the ESV’s popularity is such that it has begun to overshadow the NIV as “today’s” translation. And thus, the NIV people are in competition mode. I hope this isn’t the case, but I honestly wonder at it.
I too am enjoying the ESV. I am now on the fence to making it my primary translation in place of the NKJV. These two are pretty much neck and neck with me. The one thing that I have always enjoyed about the NKJV is how the conjunctions are nearly always translated. I have yet to read a translation that is as consistent in regard to the conjunctions as the NKJV.
As far as capitalizing the pro-nouns, I really don’t have a strong opinion. The ESV doesn’t, and this at first threw me off. However, I have gotten used to it, and understand their decision on this. It’s not distinguished in the original languages, so to be true to the original, they don’t capitalize them. For that matter, the actual, earliest manuscripts of the GNT are in majuscules, or all capitals, no spaces. Try reading that!
Back to the NIV. I never really cared for the NIV, nor their dynamic equivalency philosophy in translating. However, I have enjoyed the fact that many brothers and sisters have been blessed by it, and have grown closer to God as a result of reading it. (As I’ve said before, the best personal translation is the one that you will read!) I pray that they will go more toward the ESV example, and actually consider some Majority Manuscripts or Byzantine Manuscripts in their updated 2011 version.
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Brothers and sisters, may I suggest that we ignore trolls on threads like this? It is quite apparent that they are not interested in an honest discussion, but are instead bent on nothing less than provoking angry exchanges. There is no love in this. I have resolved to just pray for them, and ask God to forgive them, for they know not what they are doing or that their words are not spoken in wisdom and knowledge. They need Jesus, and no amount of arguing is going to convince them of this. The Holy Spirit draws us to the Father through the redemptive work of Jesus, and it is His kindness that leads to repentance. Glory to His Name!
Blessings, brothers and sisters in the Lord.
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I don’t understand why World hasn’t made a retraction like Christianity today did. They have written untruths and have left them on the site. #42 explained it also. It makes me wonder…
Jeff
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Brotherdan – wise suggestion.
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EDITOR’S NOTE: In the post on Tuesday referred to above, WorldMagBlog quoted from a post at Christianity Today’s blog that the writer later had to adjust a bit. With CT, we apologize for that misleading detail. The main point of the several stories, however, remains fully accurate. See WORLD’s coverage in next week’s magazine for a fuller report.
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Scott,
You have a book of M-and-M’s (magic and masonry)?
Joey should have ducked in the gunfight.
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Yes Xion that is true, however there are a few people who believe that God’s name, HIS Son or the Holy Spirit in any form do not need to be upper case – that was my point! I would think anyone would have understood.
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