Andrée Seu Peterson on the "Time" cover 
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Whom do you trust?
So did everyone survive this week? Obama’s school speech debate over now? OK, moving on . . . kind of.
One thing that really struck me in this week’s hubbub over the President’s speech to schoolchildren was how many parents were so volatile about their kids hearing it. It seemed many did not trust their schools (public or private) to adequately handle the speech and any potential discussion.
Here’s what I don’t understand: If you don’t trust an institution to do a good job of handling discussion in response to a 15-minute speech, what makes you trust them with the whole of your kids’ education the rest of the day/week/year? Especially if those teacher-led discussions are on the origin of the species or the great classics of literature?
My husband, Craig (yes, he of this previous WorldMagBlog post and this Terry Mattingly syndicated column), and I have always said we aren’t opposed to putting our homeschooled kids in public school. We believe that, with parental involvement, they could get a decent education at the ones in our area. But what will motivate me to put our kids in a Christian school if or when the time (and money) comes can be summed up in one word: trust—in the teachers, in the curriculum, and in the leadership.
If my kids are going to spend entire days with other adults in these formative years, I want them to be with teachers who have freedom to interact openly in spiritual discourse . . . with curriculum that doesn’t avoid hard questions and the accompanying hairy answers . . . with leaders who will challenge and mold my kids into leaders as well.
If trust isn’t firmly in place at the institution you’ve given authority and responsibility to teach your children, I’m genuinely curious: Why are your children there? Is it for financial reasons? Convenience reasons? Other reasons for a season? What is it?
back to top29 Comments to “Whom do you trust?”
We live in the same town that I grew up in. We have been in the warp and woof of this community all our lives. I recieved an excellent education in the public system and I always appreciated the sense of community. I also appreciated the diversity of reason, faith and opinion in the adults involved in my education. And I loved how kids and adults all knew who the bad teachers were and we all survived. My kids are getting a great education because of this same kind of diversity. Kids are not as easily inculcated as some suppose. Jesus prayed that we would not be taken out of the world, but protected from the evil one. Jesus has been faithful and I love the way my kids think.
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BTW, this option is the most inexpensive and the most conveinent, but that is not why we chose it. We have homeschooled and someof ourt kids have gone to private school,but these were not the best options for us. Ironically, we did not like the lack of being able to dissent in thought in the Christian school.
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Hi Megan. Your observation is right on. If everyone is so up in arms about teachers in public schools not being able to interact adequately with the president’s address, why is there not more concern, as you mentioned, with the other important daily subject matter they are exposed to – science, history, literature, social studies, etc.
While I personally don’t have children in public schools, I am pursuing certification toward teaching as a second career. This seems like a possible opportunity for older Christian women who have a degree, but don’t have school aged children at home any longer?? Just an idea.
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Believing parents make the best decision they can as far as the education of their children. However, EVERY SCHOOL, public or private has its problems. Ultimately, the One we trust is God.
Debwelch, good for you! Our kids have had several wonderful Christian teachers in the public school.
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Megan, you ask some good questions.
My kids are in Virginia’s public schools, and yes, I’m a conservative Christian who is concerned about the worldview his children adopt, and no, I’m not entirely satisfied with my decision to place them there. And no, I haven’t been running amock here at WMB or elsewhere, decrying either the general idea of a president speaking to school children, or the specifics of this President’s speech. While I believe this speech was probably a waste of classroom time, and I thought the original idea of encouraging kids to write letters saying how they’ll help the President deserved the criticism it got, I appreciate the White House responding with changes, and I haven’t been bothering my school board for airing the speech.
I admire many things about homeschool, and don’t criticize my friends for their decision to educate their kids that way, even though several of them feel very free to criticize me for mine. Private Christian school is an attractive option that I am nowhere near being able to afford.
My wife and I do not homeschool because we don’t believe we’re cut out for it. I know, I know, “anyone can homeschool,” but some folks are better teachers and project managers than others, by God’s design.
We also believe that while our children are not young evangelists, they are witnesses. I think of the ten righteous men that would have been enough to spare even a ghastly place like Sodom, and believe that there needs to be some Christian influence in schools. Some of us should educate our kids in other ways (and in fact, educating in other ways is a witness of its own) but if every one of us leaves …
We also believe that God’s Word will not return to Him void, but will have the effect on our children that He intends for it. We’re very intentional about teaching our kids the Word of God, and helping them to discern what they’re hearing at school. Side note: anti-public school advocates have their anecdotes, so I think I’m allowed mine: my daughter’s believing elementary teacher told the kids in class one day that she didn’t care what they heard elsewhere, there’s no way the world as we know it could have evolved. Heh.
Finally, part of my role as a father is to teach my kids how to survive, and even thrive, in a world in enmity against God. There are many ways to do that, of course, but I am not yet convinced that mine isn’t a valid option.
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My daughter attended a Waldorf school k-10. I trusted it to do the things that it’s good at doing, yet did not agree with every aspect of the curriculum. To be honest, I felt a bit insulted that the school didn’t need my advice about what to teach and how to teach it. The school considered that to be its job. Food, clothing, shelter, and tuition was my mine. But the arrangement worked out splendidly. I knew what the school was doing and not doing, and I acted accordingly. Pursuing her own interests in math and science, she transferred to another private school for grades 11 and 12.
Good schools try exceedingly hard to prepare young people to find their own way in cultural, intellectual, and spiritual freedom.
It’s sad for the pupils’ sake that Christian conservatives think of schools as a kind of counter-brainwashing, as ADIOS seems to have experienced.
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Like Adios, I went to public school, and got a good education, as did my husband. Unlike Adios, we don’t live in the community we grew up in, but we have been involved enough in various community groups to know a lot of the people who influence our children through the schools. (We just had school board elections this week, and for I was able to vote for three people whom I know personally – and all three won.)
I do trust the schools, especially the elementary school, where I am involved in PTO and Cub Scouts. I get to know my son’s teachers, and I know that they are teaching values I want my son to learn. I was particularly impressed, when he started kindergarten, that the principal made a point of visiting every kindergartener’s parents at their home, to get to know them and answer their questions. (As it happened, the principal turned out to have previously worked – with her husband – leading a Salvation Army Corps, and my husband was working at the Salvation Army at the time, so we had that in common.)
It’s not that I think the schools are perfect, but then no school would be, including mine if I homeschooled. Aside from financial issues, my younger son has autism, and I think the school does excellent work with him. They have a number of autistic students and experienced educators working with them, and they seem to strike an excellent balance between challenging my son to do better but having patience with him where he is now.
My older son is a senior, and his love is music. There are some musical opportunities available to homeschoolers and in private schools, but I don’t think he’d probably get to do barbershop and show choir and marching band and jazz choir and musicals… Not to mention music theory – my husband was a semi-professional musician when he was younger, and even he has trouble following our son’s discussion of chord progressions.
Our older son is also quite capable of recognizing ideas contrary to the worldview he has learned from us, and lets us know when they come up in classes or textbooks. But it doesn’t seem to happen as often as one would think, from the comments of people on this blog who consider the public schools indoctrination centers for secular humanism. Perhaps the number of Christian teachers on the staff and faculty has something to do with it. And the fact that it is a conservative community (we’re talking rural Iowa).
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I hear all the chatter agin the gummint schools. I agree that the big districts (Los Angeles, DC, Dallas, NYC etc) are probably rotted to the core and beyond redemption. [Though the Korean American DC school superintendent has done wonders or at least attempted to do so]
But in the largely rural schools far from the overly bureaucratized educrat-infested school systems I suspect is is much the same as in my area. In my Sunday School class we have a few teachers. They’ve told me about other Christian men and women in their schools or districts.
Yes, they are all subject to all the Madlyn Ohair Court restrictions on what they can/cannot bring up in the class room. But these folks- public school teachers– view it as as much a ministry as any other pursuit. They epitomize the CH Spurgeon injunction to preach the Gospel at all times and if necessary use words
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I think the key is communication, no matter where your child goes to school. When they come home and at dinner, invite conversation about the day. Of course it may start with, “How was your day?” with the stock answer of “Fine.”
However, as they keep talking, we parents need to listen, have our antennae up, and give wise and careful input.
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My now-grown children attended the same public school district that RR’s children attend. One graduated in 2000, and the other in 2002. These are very good schools.
My husband and I always insisted on family dinner and my kids grew up knowing that we were going to discuss their school day and what they were learning over dinner. We were always on top of what classes they were doing well in and what classes needed work, and all of it was discussed over dinner.
Sometimes we discussed difficult chemistry concepts. That was an area of difficulty for my son, so we discussed it a lot. (It was my own remedial Chemistry class. Fortunately, my husband has a good working knowledge of the subject.)
We all spoke Foreign languages and so we discussed grammar and such. My daughter still “geeks out” over linguistics. She was visiting the other day and was excited to show me a forensic linguistics book she had borrowed from a friend.
Both of my children like to read, so we had a lot of discussions about books read for class and even books we read as a family. And suggestions.
But everyone’s favorite topic was Dad’s dinnertime current events and civics and history class. We always talked about what they were learning in those classes, and taught them how to think for themselves. We had some lively discussions and did not always agree on everything related to current events. That was our parental part in their education. It was a good way to measure what our kids were getting in school.
My kids were salt and light in their schools. They did not attend the same high school. We did allow them to be exposed to things in public school, but we always discussed those things with our children and at home, we talked about all of the theories of science and we taught the controversy about evolution, laying out all sides of the argument.
We were firm about our values, in which we trained them up, but we didn’t keep them from being exposed to other points of view in the public schools they attended. And we discussed the differences. And then we trusted God that Truth would speak for itself, and we trusted that we had taught our children to make good decisions, and so far, they have.
Like RR, I was not cut out to homeschool my children. But I did my best to suppliment their public education and paid attention to what was going on.
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Family dinner for us, too, Klasko. A very rich time!
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they are all subject to all the Madlyn Ohair Court restrictions on what they can/cannot bring up in the class room.
What are these, SAWGUNNER?
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#12..Simply put, nothing to suggest or communicate the idea of any type of Supreme Being in any classroom during the school day where attendance by the yungins is involuntary (ie forced).
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There are many Christian school teachers, in the public schools and Christian schools, who are Obama fans.
You’d be surprised to see who in your church voted for and believes in Obama. It might be your adult Sunday School teacher.
I guess the consensus is that he is a wonderful guy who cares about poor people. The Bible says you will know them by their fruit.
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Please tell me you’re just being contrary, SAWGUNNER. The idea of God is omnipresent in most of the literature discussed in 11th and 12th grade English. Teachers kill themselves trying to drag the yungins to the theology of Beowulf, Chaucer, Donne, Bradford, Edwards, Franklin, Hawthorne, etc.
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My son went to school in Fairfax Co., Va. Probably where KLasko and RR send their children. He survived very well. He sent his daughters to school in Guilford Co. N.C. (Greensboro). Chuck and middle GD went to USC-Columbia, Youngest went to Appalachian State and oldest went to UNC-Greensboro. The two girls who went away to school were active in Christian organizations and avoided the “I Am Charlotte Simmons” type experience.
I would send a child to public school today. I believe that proper home experience and constant prayer offsets any school influence.
BTW, I asked my GD who went to USC if the professors were liberal. She said, in effect, “Many of them have liberal philosophy, but the parents of most of the students are Republicans, so they don’t say much.”
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I agree with Hopesprings: There are problems with all the different types of educational experiences. I’ve done several myself.
The reason many parents do not trust their schools is because of their previous experience or that of their acquaintances. I was very trusting of schools when my youngest began. I no longer trust them and believe parents better be vigilent in both public and private schools. They also need to compensate for the unique problems of homeschooling.
Most of us also, do not believe our children are so fragile that every little thing will hurt them. It is the over and over again that can be harmful. It is also wrong to allow things that one knows is harmful to children or our country and just remain silent. Silence is sometimes consent.
I once had a friend who was pulling her child out of public school for one year. She had been a teacher and was putting her child in a parochial school for third grade. When I asked her why, she told me that (like Michelle’s says above) “everyone knew” that the third grade teacher was bad. In this case he was apparently a little too friendly with the girls. This was many years ago, when little was done with such knowledge. I was shocked and wondered about all the little girls whose parents did not know.
It isn’t really true that “everyone” knows the bad teachers. In some districts, the teachers could be requested. Pity the poor students who didn’t have parents “in the know”. Such teachers should have been let go, which is, of course, a lot of the problem.
I have no problem trusting God to take care of my children wherever they get educated. However, he also expects me to use good common sense and be the advocate for my child that he made me.
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Scroop Moth, just curious, what is a Waldorf school?
Also, I think some teachers sort of “stay too long at the fair”. I think they’ve been teaching so many years and they’re worn out. They maybe don’t have the same tolerance for kids and their childish foibles.
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All of the kids I know who attend public school in my small rural town are on meds. Heavy medication is supposedly the only way kids can learn these days. Our rural schools are multi-million dollar government monuments with gigantic sports complexes and busing for everyone.
Grades are about half what the local Christian schools are able to produce for half the cost. Plus Christian schools are free to teach actual history that doesn’t remove or ridicule everything religious. Government kids are taught that capitalism is bad and America is to blame for everything wrong with this world. Eco-education dominates with worship of mother earth. Multiculturalism is important too, correcting disparities with reverse disparities.
No, I never trusted the local government indoctrination centers with my children’s education.
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XION
Capitalism is bad if we “serve” it.
And no one can serve two masters.
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Xion, while there are a number of children in the public school system who take meds, I wouldn’t say that that is a majority (at least not here). I would even venture to say that you will find children in the Christian schools who are on meds.
Again, there are good Christian schools and some not so good Christian schools. There are good public schools and some not so good public schools.
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Hopesprings,
Waldorf schools are new age schools with a background in European romanticism and high-brow art culture. They are the school of choice for Greens and environmentalists. The main critique is that they’re sheltered from the ugly side of life and not up to speed in math and science, and defer academic discipline too late in grade school. They were founded in Germany after WWI as an alternative to the hyper-academic gymnasiums. Tests are anathema. The workshop, kitchen, and garden are important. Students learn the medieval crafts and make their own “textbooks” in which they write out their lessons in beautiful hands and laboriously illustrate them, like little monks. They make something of a religion of personal culture and development, and art, music, and drama. I would judge a Waldorf 8th grader better educated in the classical sense than your typical HS graduate entering college. Lacking the support of socialist governments, Waldorf schools in America have depended on the beneficence of wealthy eccentrics to get real estate in big cities. They are one of the places where you still can find formr radicals.
Evangelical authoritarians are infallibly hostile to Waldorf education, but I think they need it and should copy as much as they can.
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Thanks, Scroop Moth. I can see the advantages of some of this. I do like the idea of the workshop, the kitchen and the garden having importance. I had no idea that such a school existed.
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Chas: close! We’re the county on the other side of the Occoquan.
Xion, I’m hoping your 19 was supposed to be parody, because it’s rather hard to take seriously.
I know exactly one public school kid, in my entire social network, who’s “on meds” (and therefore, I find your generalization reckless). This kid, by the way, is the believing son of sober-minded believers, and has actually gotten a whole lot better at “keeping both feet on the ground,” as he puts it, with Ritalin. He was never a rebellious, spoiled, troublemaker, he just couldn’t concentrate on classroom instruction. Sometimes, behavioral problems really do arise from physiological causes.
Government kids are taught that capitalism is bad and America is to blame for everything wrong with this world. Eco-education dominates with worship of mother earth. Multiculturalism is important too, correcting disparities with reverse disparities.
And you would know this how? Indeed, I’m open to the idea that this sort of indoctrination might be going on somewhere, but would be hard-pressed to come up with examples from my local school district. I’m wondering if you’ve actually examined the curriculum used by your local district, or if you’re just doing a bit more generalizing.
Having interacted pretty extensively with homeschool and Christian school parents, I think it’s safe to say that not everything people claim about the opposition is true.
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I am SURE glad that I’m homeschooled…
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I think you’d also be surprized to find out how many employees at large companies are on Xanex, too–I’ve heard of entire departments taking the stuff. We are an over-stressed, over-drugged society. I’m not knocking drugs when needed, but I do wonder how much of our ‘need’ is driven by the stresses of modern life. That’s not a blanket condemnation, just an observation.
Scroop, that Waldorf school does sound interesting. I’m not at all a new-ager, but I do agree with HopeSprings that some of those elements could be beneficial in Christian schools. And I bet homeschool groups would have an even easier time incorporating them–I wouldn’t be surprised if some already do.
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If there’s one thing that appalls “Waldorf parents” more than sorting in elite academic schools, it’s the withdrawal from community that underlies home schooling.
Learning isn’t learning if it’s not joint and several in a group that grows up together for at least 8 or 9 grades, they think. Children need to see each other learn and develop. Waldorf classes stay together with the same teacher, year after year. Many schools have farms attached, and co-ops where parents buy organic milk, cheese and groceries. Pupils plant wheat and bake bread, harvest herbs and vegetables, make candles, knit and sew, and make wooden things (the latter mostly in HS). They display their crafts prominently. School communities celebrate all the seasonal festivals (yes they say “Christmas” and “Easter”). In the 3rd grade, parents help their children build a little cottage. All this requires a lot of time from parents. The plays and concerts are genuinely interesting at every grade level.
I suppose home schools can accomplish some of these things, but why? How could it be any fun?
My daughter was in Waldorf from K-10, for which I’m glad. She didn’t/couldn’t read until about the 4th grade, when she still had trouble with 6 plus 8. When she eventually began to read on her own, it was a novel a night, and I wished she was still illiterate. She learned French & German and earned money playing viola at bach concerts in church by the time she was 14. Unfortunately, she had a terrible time with handwork. She dragged out her knitting and sewing interminably. Handwork teachers were the bane of her existence. She was by turns enraged and despondent over having to finish, when the only way was to do. To tell the truth, the things she made were not so pretty. They were done. This was painful, brought her down a notch, and taught her to esteem others as well as herself.
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Scroop, are you familiar with “free schools?” I used to live half a block from the Albany Free School which has a list of “radical schools” on its website that includes Waldorf Schools. Am I correct in defining that “radical” refers to its structure and teaching methods?
Even though it was located in an inner-city neighborhood, the building was the most dilapidated and neglected on the block and they took up most of their sidewalk with a makeshift folding screen bulletin board. The head of the school was friendly enough, but exchanged nothing more than neighborly pleasantries. Otherwise, I would have loved to find out more about their philosophy of education and I found it odd that no one ever represented the school at our Neighborhood Association meetings.
Just some observatons if you care to comment – or not.
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Nana, I don’t know much about free schools except for their notorious scandals which were the subject of novels — maybe even a movie — back in the 70’s.
Waldorf Schools are more eccentric than radical, I’d say. The school buildings, especially in Europe, are often beautiful and architecturally unique. Waldorf communites are made up of free thinkers who live conventionally and can be a little dogmatic about their back-to-nature lifestyles and aesthetics. They avoid alcohol and smoke a lot and have a high-brow appreciation for art and world religions etc.
There’s an extensive wikipedia article. My daughter’s school was like a stage set for a fairy tale, built around a castle on a hill, next to a forrest containing woodcutters and wolves.
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