“Abortion is a blessing”
There are so many things wrong with the Episcopal Church, and so many reasons why I left it, they’re difficult to recount. Long before the decision to ordain Gene Robinson, a divorced, practicing homosexual, as a bishop, TEC had lost its way. Starting in the 1970s, it became a place to worship the latest politically correct fad and a place to hear moral relativism preached instead of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Long after the media stopped caring about Nicaragua, for example, I remember hearing a sermon decrying U.S. support of the contras. At a children’s Christmas pageant, a “single mother” and a “handicapped person” were thrown into the mix along with baby Jesus, Mary, Joseph and the shepherds. One Sunday I was handed a photocopied hymn to “Mother God.”
And as if those bad memories aren’t enough, there are constant reminders of how appalling things continue to be. An item in New Directions, a publication of the traditional Anglican movement Forward in Faith, reported the news that the Rev. Katherine Ragsdale was recently appointed dean of the Episcopal Divinity School in Cambridge, Mass. It went on to recall a speech she gave in Birmingham, Ala., a couple of years ago on the subject of abortion (which Marvin Olasky also commented on in a WORLD column back in May):
When a woman wants a child but can’t afford one, because she hasn’t the education necessary for a sustainable job, or access to health care, or day care, or adequate food, it is the abysmal priorities of our nation, the lack of social supports, the absence of justice that are the tragedies; the abortion is a blessing.
And when a woman becomes pregnant within a loving, supportive, respectful relationship; has every option open to her; decides she does not wish to bear a child; and has access to a safe affordable abortion, there is not a tragedy in sight; only blessing.
The ability to enjoy God’s good gift of sexuality without compromising one’s education, life’s work, or ability to put to use God’s gifts and call is simply blessing. These are the two things I want you, please, to remember – abortion is a blessing and our work is not done. Let me hear you say it. Abortion is a blessing and our work is not done.
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back to top82 Comments to ““Abortion is a blessing””
What “work is not done” is she talking about?
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From Ragsdale’s sermon:
“When a woman wants a child but can’t afford one, because she hasn’t the education necessary for a sustainable job, or access to health care, or day care, or adequate food, it is the abysmal priorities of our nation, the lack of social supports, the absence of justice that are the tragedies; the abortion is a blessing.”
This from her Christmas sermon describing Mary the Mother of Jesus and the country in which she got pregnant?
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The Nigerian Anglican Church is now headed by a fierce, conservative military leader, bravely opposed to homosexuality.
Perhaps he can stage a military coup of the Anglican Church in America and defend it against corruption and sin.
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She must be furious at God for sending his son instead of “daycare, healthcare, and education.”
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Gene Robinson is on a path that leads to destruction, not the path of the Gospel. No where in the Bible can I find a quotation that says murder is acceptable, homosexuality is acceptable or that we must force God to see things our way. His teachings tell us to constantly conform ourselves to the Gospel. His words are “sell everything and follow me”, “be as a child”, not destroy the child. How can people be sucked into such contrary teachings to the Holy Bible? We must constantly being praying for our country.
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I agree with you, Gigi, that we are to follow Him, but it’s rare that you see believers “selling everything”, isn’t it?
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NEWS2ME @ 1: What do you mean what work is not done? Come now N2M. Why, the murder of all those inconvenient unborn babies, and we have yet to pass a law to kill all those inconvenient mentally, phsically, and elderly parasites on our hands that interfere with ‘our’ good life, have we? Lets get to work, times awasting. God forgive them, they know exactly what they are doing.
Blessings
Roger
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PROVOST, maybe she’s angry at God because He sent His SON and not a daughter.
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I recall a trip to Bar Harbor Main a friend and I took last year. We had parked at the city park to go to a restaurant to get a quick lunch. As we got out of the car, I noticed across the street, 3 girls and 1 boy had set up a table promoting abortions rights. The young man was holding up a sign which read, “If you support a womans right to abortion, ‘honk your horn.’” We crossed the street and I stood in front of the young man and said; “You do know that abortion stops a beating heart, do you not?” All he could do was give me a weak shrug of his shoulders. Again I asked him; “Are you angry or thankful that you mother didn’t kill you in her womb?” Another weak shrug of his shoulders, because, I think, he did not know how to answer me. With that I turned away, went and had a short lunch time. When we returned, the table and 4 young people had left. I don’t know if I had an impact on them, only they and God know.
The point? Listen to the Spirit and be not afraid to act.
Blessings
Roger
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I’ve never understood how lesbians could be so nuttily pro-abortion. Cant imagine any lesbian ever having to confront any “un-wanted, problem” pregnancy.
If the US branch of Anglicanism is to survive, it will be thru the efforts of break-away fellowships rallying around the conservative Bible-preaching-and-believing pastors from West Africa.
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I have been trying to understand the obsessive evangelical Christian obsession with abortion. I have never had an abortion. I have never performed an abortion. I have never asked anyone to have an abortion.
My wife got pregnant on our honeymoon. (How quaint that sounds.) We considered abortion, but kept our daughter. She now lives with another woman; if we had aborted her we could have prevented that sin.
Anyway, I think I am beginning to understand your obsession a little, although you (general) do not explain yourself very well.
Little children people told me a day or two ago are not innocent. They are all conceived guilty because of Adam and Eve’s sin. (An imaginary sin by imaginary people who were not the mother and father of the entire human race; just in case you need to have a side flame war about evolution while we are at it.)
This means that unless children are protected against abortion, and allowed to be saved (perhaps as early as by six years young, going by another recent discussion here at religiousfanaticblog.com) they will go to hell and be toasted or perhaps they will simply be obliterated as some of you do not believe in a hot hell as I read recently).
Of course, if a pre-born child dies by miscarriage instead of abortion he or she is also guilty by reason of being human, but that’s only an accident allowed by God who performs miracles in your life because you feel it.
This web site is also called worldmagcoherence.com
However, give people reasons not to have abortions. Don’t make abortion illegal. Don’t shoot abortion doctors. Don’t shoot abortion protesters.
Post coherent messages. This web site is still virginal in that regard.
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#2 Even if we had French-style fully-funded creches and other income support for pregnant women out the wazoo, there would still be the Abortion Uber Alles wingnuts like this pastor who would still champion the murder of innocent unborn children. May our Lord have mercy on them
#9 Roger Patno, you did a great good thing!
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…calling evil good and good evil…
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I wonder why she bothers with “God”?
Random, the evangelical Christian position on abortion is that it is murder. Of course we’re “obsessed” about it. Wouldn’t you be?
You say “obliterated” like it’s a bad thing. I thought you were looking forward to it?
I suspect that your daughter joins us in being very glad you didn’t abort her.
As always, salvation is her choice. Being lesbian makes her no worse off than you or me: we’re all sinners, and we all have to repent, as she would.
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I suppose any murder might be considered a “blessing” to the murderer (assuming he gets away with it) . . . but not to the victim, not to society at large, and definitely it should never be seen as such to the church. (Of course it isn’t seen as such to the church; this is a wolf in sheep’s clothing and not a true shepherd.)
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Random in the 1850s: “I can’t understand why people are so obsessed with how slaves are bought and sold. If you’re against slavery, dont buy any!”
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I’d love to have a Worldmagger sneak in and film and record the class content at the Divinity shcool Ragsdale heads up there Cambridge. Cant imagine just a lotta folks beating down the doors for entry into their MDiv program!!
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What is happening to the Episcpal Church is what happens every time you try to compromise Truth. The Truth is immutable. It is 100% perfect. If you surrender to compromise/political correctness, or whatever you want to call it, you surrender perfection and therefore you surrender Truth. If you have surrendered Truth, then all you have left is Lies. No doubt the Deceiver smiles when Ragsdale opens her mouth. The American Episcopal Church will ultimately fail because it has failed its people by failing to adhere to Truth.
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Try this thought experiment. Can spontaneous abortion be a blessing? Sure. Nature designed it to improve reproduction. Therefore, elective abortion can be a “corrective” to the failure of spontaneous abortion.
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RN #11, Scroop Moth #19
Do you understand there is a difference between death by natural causes, as will happen to all of us who are not killed by accident or homicide, and death by the deliberate intention of another human? Random Name, we find abortion wrong not because of some metaphysical concern over an unborn baby’s soul (about which Scripture gives no clear guidance except that we can trust the Judge of all the earth to do right), but because we find that killing them is the wrong thing for the abortionist to do. Any incoherence on this point is solely your responsibillity.
Scroop Moth’s snarky thought experiment does not differ from regarding any murder as a “corrective” to the failure of disease to end a life.
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I’ll be sure to tell my wife that the death of our baby boy a few years ago — and the death of her dad a bit later — were just Nature cleaning up the gene pool. That’ll help, I’m certain of it.
Honestly. Do you nihilists ever get the barest glimpse of how hardened you have become?
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Interesting, Scroop. So what you’re saying is George Tiller’s murder was a blessing because it was a correction of the failure of him being spontaneously aborted.
I think that’s quite a morally bankrupt stance myself, but you’ve already shown you have no aversion to moral bankruptcy, so there you go.
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#19. “Can spontaneous abortion be a blessing? Sure.” As a woman who’s first pregnancy (unplanned and unmarried) was a spontaneous abortion I would answer “yes and no” to that question. It was a traumatic experience and a part of me still grieves 24 years later. A medical definition of spontaneous abortion from MedicineNet.com says, “The cause of a miscarriage cannot always be determined. The most common known causes of miscarriage in the first third of pregnancy (1st trimester) are chromosomal abnormalities, collagen vascular disease (such as lupus), diabetes, other hormonal problems infection, and congenital (present at birth) abnormalities of the uterus. Chromosomal abnormalities of the fetus are the most common cause of early miscarriages, including blighted ovum”. By this definition the statement “elective abortion can be a ‘corrective’ to the failure of spontaneous abortion,” makes absolutely no sense. If there is no spontaneous abortion, and therefore no flaw and no need to correct an assumed “failure” by making the choice to end a life because one’s present circumstance or wishes don’t lean to the responsibility.
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She worships Satan – so why wouldn’t she just be honest about it? But, at least she has matched her appearance with her real husband.
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Random Name,
“evolution” sideline?
Scientists can’t create 1 living cell of anything.
They can’t create the spiritual base.
Sitting in the front row with 3d glasses watching dinosaur movies, does not mean that fantasizing about spare piano keys falling off cliffs, generates real pianists.
And like the fed printing more money, scientists print more “time” to dodge the infallible Biblical facts.
YET, some receive Christ.
They know that “fun with science” hobbies are almost over.
Yippee!
“All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.” (Joh 1:3)
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Random Name,
You’re 65?
You’re still young.
“And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I [am] the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.” (Ge 17:1)
Start today IN CHRIST.
You’ll be amazed at the progress you’ll make..
…in GOD’S school.
It’s MUCH different…
..WITH eternal investment returns.
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JEMME5 — You’re saying that the process that causes spontaneous abortion is infallible. Whatever is, is right. Birth proves that nature never “meant” to abort.
Aside from the assumption that nature makes moral judgments, your argument is rational. But it isn’t probable. Spontaneous abortion doesn’t have to be infallible to be beneficial. Sometimes a fit fetus is aborted. Sometimes an unfit fetus survives. Abortion only has to be correct more often than not to be a reproductive advantage.
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RANDOM & SCROOP: Have either of you been in anyway connected with a woman who has spontaneously aborted? If you have not I would respectfully ask you to shut you lips on the subject. My wife gave birth to our first child, a boy. She had to return to the hospital two weeks later because she was hemorrhageing and had a D&C. We did not know until later that it was botched.
Shortly thereafter she became pregnant. A spontainious abortion occured in the third month while she was seated on the toilet. Her cry of despair is still fresh in my mind. The same thing occured 4 more times, aborted in the third month. If you have never been through the experience, I suggest that you take your ugly hate filled words and stuff them back into your black hearts. In my mind you are both an abomination to all that is good and holy. When we realized that we could not continue to try for a natural birth, we cose to adopt. We now have a 48 year old son and a beautiful 38 year old daughter, both of whom have given ua two wonderful granchildren each. If the two of you come here to sneer, smear and jeer at Christians and their faith, and all things Godly, I would suggest that you get a life. If this post gets me removed from partcipating, so be it. I have had enough of your hatefulness. You apparently have no understanding of what it means to lose children by spontaneous abortion. It is something that no woman would chose. Time for you both to get a real life. Nevertheless I pray that God’s Spirit open your eyes an d you recieve the Truth that will set you free.
Blessings
Roger
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Blame Jonathan Edwards. He was the one who reimagined the Calvinist faith as a form of subjective experience. It is the “experimental Calvinism” of guys like Edwards and Finney that have led us to the point where Christianity has become little more than a cultural phenomenon.
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Roger, I’m so sorry. I’m single and thus have of course never been pregnant, but my sister has had several miscarriages, and so have many of my friends, and I know some of the pain through watching them. And no, it is nothing to be glib about.
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Roger,
Yes, I have been connected with women who spontaneously aborted (miscarried).
After the five children in my family were born, my mother had a miscarriage.
At one job where I worked, a pleasant young woman expecting her first child miscarried at work.
My daughter’s partner became pregnant by artificial insemination. She lost the first two children by natural causes. Medical investigation revealed that her babies were allergic to her. She was able to have the third child normally; my granddaughter is now five years old and doing well.
If this post gets me removed from partcipating, so be it. I have had enough of your hatefulness.
I have many disagreements with people who post comments here. I do not believe very many, if any, of my posts can fairly be described as “hateful.” We are discussing serious issues about ethics and life and death.
I don’t wish to see anybody removed or banned from worldmagblog because of their comments, whether addressed to me or anyone else, but I have had very unpleasant addressed to me and others by people who call themselves Christians.
I suggest you re-read your comments tomorrow when you are calm and think about what you sound like and whether you should be participating in a forum as volatile and difficult as this. However, your decision is up to you, in this regard. I am not filing any complaints.
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Hateful people rarely think of themselves as such.
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Live is full of pain, suffering, and cruelty. As I’ve said, many times, I am not FOR abortion, but I find the obsession with abortion among evangelical Christians rather peculiar.
Adult people all over the world are being killed by terrorism, murder, war, disease, and son on. This minute as I type probably many humans are dying in terrible ways.
Adult deaths bother me more than abortion.
Some people here go on about the pain inflicted on the unborn child. Science, which is often ghastly, advanced all the time. Probably it will be possible to abort without causing pain. I think the pain misses a point.
Abortion a day before birth is clearly murder. Birth control, including methods such as birth control pills, does not strike me as murder. Millions of abortions take place in China; yet we are very close to China and do much business with them.
The thinking on this topic is not very clear. There is something infantile and very confused in this community on this subject; Roger’s very emotional and not very coherent comment addressed to me is another symptom of the confusion.
Good night, and try and conduct a rational and calm discussion even though it is a difficult issue.
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Random, murder around the world is condemned. Abortion is not. We really do think abortion is murder. Of course murder still happens, but that doesn’t mean we should be okay with it.
And, incidentally, murder bothers me regardless of age.
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RANDOM: A rational and calm discussion never includes the right to inject smearing, ridiculing, and hateful comments about anothers belief. When you do that you lose all credibility. Time to come down of your charger and get a life that has meaning. May God bless you as He has us who believe.
Blessings
Roger
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Sexuality is one of the most disturbing parts of being a human being. We like to think of ourselves as rational, sensible creatures.
We are animals. We are the only animals who think. We are the only animals who are self-conscious. This knowledge and awareness drives us crazy; I think literally.
Our sexual drives vividly remind us that we are animals. For humans to function in our sexuality, we have to give in to our “animal nature,” and give up our rational self-consciousness.
We try to set all sorts of rules and guidelines to control our sexuality. Be faithful to one mate all your life. Don’t masturbate. Don’t engage in sex with people of the same sex as you.
People violate these rules all the time. Not everyone, but quite a few and most of the rest of us want to and constantly struggle with our urges to do so.
It is in our genes to reproduce ourselves. From an evolutionary point of view, when we were a small group of hominids in a very dangerous world, it made sense for us to fornicate like crazed weasels. Now we have overrun the world and are in the process of destroying other life forms and ourselves, so it does not make sense anymore. David Byrne and the Talking Heads said, “Stop Making Sense.”
That’s easy for human beings to do.
Entire religious practices have been built about our efforts (mostly unsuccessful) to control our sexuality.
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The other thing that humans can not deal with is death. We are the only animal intelligent and self-conscious enough to understand that we will cease to exist. Our awareness of our own mortality also drives us crazy. As Ernest Beck discussed in his two greatest books, Denial of Death and Escape from Evil, we constantly try to deny and suppress from ourselves the knowledge that we are going to die.
One way of doing this is to develop a religion that tells us that we will not die. “I will not die. I have a soul that will continue to exist after my physical, animal body dies.”
It is impossible to prove or disprove this assertion, but as far as I can see, it is based entirely on wishful thinking.
Becker and his followers also said, that much of what we typically call “evil” behavior, such as mass and individual murder, seems to arise from our death denial and the emotional turmoil our knowledge of our mortality throws us into.
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I haven’t quite figured it all out yet, but the highly charged emotional reaction to abortion has something to do with it.
The highly charged emotional reaction Roger has to my comments because I disagree with him and his religious beliefs, has something to do with it.
A few days ago, Roger accused me of saying something I did not, apparently getting me mixed up with the commenter who uses the screen name “Scroop Moth.” After I kept asking him what he was talking about, making an effort to be very calm and non-sarcastic, Roger realized he was in error and apologized and calmed down. It is an easy error to make; I have made errors of a similar nature in these discussions.
Nevertheless, Roger has returned to a fever pitch of excitement again and is posting wild comments about me and what I say.
This is not the first time I have encountered this at worldmagblog. Christians here say they want an open discussion, with all points of view expressed, with a few simple rules (not too hard to understand and to follow). However, when a person appears who disagrees with them, especially about sexuality and death, some (not all) participants here become very emotionally wrought up and start accusing others (such as me) in wild ways.
Once again, I will say to Roger, calm down. Take a break from reading these blog posts and comments until you have a grip on your emotions. You can’t force me to think the way you do. No matter how many angry comments you address to me; no matter how many times you urge me to believe as you do, you are very unlikely to get me to think the way you believe I should.
Throughout history, people have killed other people, burned them at the stake, hung them, drowned them, tortured them in horrible ways, frequently for religious reasons. Gradually, over a long period of time, we have brought these terrible activities under a tiny bit of control, but they always creep out of our control.
If you want to throw abortion in as an example, fine. It is a sign of progress, I guess, that you are throwing blog comments at me instead of stones, but the impulse is not that much different.
Seriously, how do you propose to stop people from having abortions? We tried it for decades, without much success.
Posting angry comments on a blog does not stop a single abortion.
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RANDOM: Have a good day.
Blessings
Roger
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35 is an angry comment?
Blessings
Roger
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RN is right that posting angry comments on a blog does not stop a single abortion. I believe it has been said many times on here before and even in this post that the reason many of us are opposed to abortion has very little to do with Scripture and much to do with common decency. Abortion is the deliberate killing of an innocent baby who will never have the opportunity to go to a gifted school like your granddaughter. That baby who gets aborted/killed/murdered needs just as much protection as your granddaughter. Would you be upset RN if a doctor walked in to your granddaughter’s brainy school and selected 5 children including your granddaughter and declared that the United States just cannot support more brainy children and then killed them? Would you want justice to be done for somebody to take your 5 year old’s life? Isn’t a baby in the womb the same thing as your granddaughter? Doesn’t that child have fingers and toes, a brain developing and a heart developing?
As a man who has never been able to have children because of the amount of drugs I took when I was young, I can honestly tell you that I weep for every child that isn’t given the chance of life. I weep for every doctor or nurse that participates in the taking of a life. I weep for every mother and every father that gave up their ability to bring a child into this world. And I weep for those of you who can write so casually about murder of an innocent child because you know not what you do.
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ROGER PATNO: . . . I suggest that you take your ugly hate filled words and stuff them back into your black hearts. In my mind you are both an abomination to all that is good and holy.
The anti-choice argument always boils down to a personal attack.
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. . . a place to hear moral relativism preached instead of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Love your neighbor as yourself. Love God with all your heart. Moral relativism isthe Gospel.
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“I have been trying to understand the obsessive evangelical Christian obsession with abortion.”
We actually believe in God and that humans are made in His image.
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And we believe that all people are NOT mere chemical or biological “accidents.”
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Well, I have a real blessing, a 45-old blessing who also feels blessed that he was ADOPTED instead of aborted. The parents who raised him also feel blessed, as well as his siblings. We’re going to be blessed with a reunion this coming week when he’ll also meet his half-brother, nieces and nephew. Praise God.
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“Love your neighbor as yourself. Love God with all your heart. Moral relativism isthe Gospel. ”
The amount of mental contortions you would have to go through to think of that as moral relativism makes my head explode. That is the exact OPPOSITE of moral relativism.
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Your brain is not as unstable as you may think.
Jesus used the word as to consider one value in relation or comparison to another. Relativism. Jesus purposely passed up the chance to sum up his ethical teachings in terms of an absolute. He told people to follow their hearts and do the best they can.
That was easy, Frodo!
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And we believe that all people are NOT mere chemical or biological “accidents.”
Joel, as I have pointed out a number of times, people are killed by violence all over the world all the time for many reasons.
The death of a person by violence in Darfur or in Washington DC or in Afghanistan or in London or in Congo or in Columbia and so on is a terrible thing. Most atheists regard these violent deaths as terrible things, and occasionally do something useful to try and help stop them.
One, posting messages on Worldmagblog does nothing to help stop violence against any human being, whether it is in abortion or an attack against an adult.
Two, in proportion to all the violence in the world and throughout history, the posting on wmb on abortion strikes me as obsessive, irrational, and useless.
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I’ve never understood how lesbians could be so nuttily pro-abortion.
How many lesbians do you know? Are they all “nuttily” pro-abortion? Typical wmb behavior: make a wild generalization because it sounds good to you. Whether it has any connection to reality is irrelevant.
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What is happening to the Episcpal Church is what happens every time you try to compromise Truth. The Truth is immutable. It is 100% perfect
I guess if I point out that if the what the comment describes as “Truth” is the person’s opinion, even though it is said with a air of great certainty, I am mocking Christians?
Many of you believe the Bible is “inerrant” and the “word of God.”
I and many others do not. This is called a difference of opinion. We are fortunate that most of us live in a place and time where we infrequently kill each over such differences of opinion.
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Nana – From your comment, I’m not sure if you’re saying you are the one who adopted him or you are the one who gave birth to him & released him for adoption.
Either way, God bless you & him & both families.
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Thank you Karen! I gave him up for adoption in NY where those records used to be sealed. We’ve both been searching for each other off and on, and then three months ago I received an email asking, “Are you my birth mother?” We’re in different states now and have been writing and phoning ever since. He’s also made contact with his deceased birth father’s fractured family and I believe he’s the impetus for bringing them closer together, too. It’s a beautiful story of all things happening for the good for those who love Him.
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“He told people to follow their hearts and do the best they can. ”
You are putting words in His mouth. Love is not some nebulous, meaningless term to God, it has a specific meaning and just because someone thinks they’re being loving doesn’t mean they are.
“Most atheists regard these violent deaths as terrible things,”
They have no valid reason to think of them as terrible. Certainly Stalin didn’t, and his belief is no less valid than yours.
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And people wonder why I left the Episcopal church.
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Don’t explode from those mental contortions, Frodo.
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When someone claims to be a Christian brother or sister, that puts them in a special category of scrutiny in the eyes of other Christian family members. Here is the biblical basis for that principle:
* “I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people—-not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.” Paul (1 Corinthans 5:9-11).
___________________________________
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#49: Random, please. You are completely right that violent deaths are terrible, and even that most atheists regard them as such. (Which I don’t really understand, as to my mind they should all be hardcore nihilists, but that’s another matter.)
But it really doesn’t follow that abortion is not a big deal because it is small “in proportion” to other violence. First off, it’s not true. Abortion kills how many worldwide? 42 million per year? Let’s compare that to the Holocaust, usually claimed to be responsible for 5-15ish million deaths, I believe. Not so small “in proportion” as all that.
Secondly, it’s supposed to follow that abortion isn’t a big deal, because of it’s supposed insignificance “in proportion?” What does that say about the Holocaust? Wars? About your average serial killer? Natural disaster? Single murder? You can’t be seriously advocating that 42 million isn’t something to care about because it’s so small. (Unless perhaps you’re more of a hardcore nihilist that I realized, in which case I commend you for taking your worldview to its logical conclusion.)
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MARCIA SEGELSTEIN There are so many things wrong with the Episcopal Church, and so many reasons why I left it, they’re difficult to recount.
If Marcia were to explain it all in detail, I suppose World Mag could not contain all the articles that would be written.
KIM And people wonder why I left the Episcopal church.
Indeed, the question crossed my mind, KIM.
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NANA @ 53: My adopted daughter (adopted, but not considered so), found her birth mother, who was also searching for my daughter. What a blessed reunion it has been. Her birth mother gave her for adoption, and I continue to praise God that she did not simply kill a “blob” of tissue. Her mother never forgot her and prayed constantly that she would be adopted by a Christian family. Her prayers were answered. My daughter looks very much like her mother, her birth father is dead. We will be seeing her mom and her husband next month when the visit us here in SC. Is God not good, gracious, and full of mercy to those who love Him?
Blessings
Roger
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Amen Roger, God is good and gracious. I am so glad that your daughter’s mother decided that she was carrying a live child inside of her and not just a blob of tissue. That is one life that had the chance to live. 42 million children world wide never have that chance, 115,000 daily. That means that today somewhere in the world 115,000 children are losing their right to life because somebody considers them just a blob. 93% of these abortions are for social reasons only (i.e. the child is unwanted or inconvenient).
I am so glad that I was not unwanted or inconvenient. I am so glad that Random Name was not unwanted or inconvenient and that his daughter and grand daughter were not unwanted or inconvenient. I am so glad Arcadia and Musing were not unwanted or inconvenient.
I miss the children that were unwanted or inconvenient. I miss their potential to smile and laugh. I miss their potential to hold their daddy’s hand and go for a walk. I miss 42 million children world wide who every year won’t get to have a birthday, won’t get to celebrate a wedding and won’t have the chance to get married and have their own children one day.
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Nana – What a wonderful story!
My SIL & niece are vehement proponents of legal abortion. I’m sure they would advise a pregnant teenager to have an abortion.
But I wonder how much they consider my mother’s situation. She was pregnant with my brother at 15. If Mom had had an abortion (though it would have been an illegal one, back in the 50’s), my brother would not have been born & so neither would my niece have been born.
When my dad married Mom, he adopted my brother, loved him & considered him his own son.
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Attention everyone: Random Name has intoned that when people disagree over a thing, the phenomenon is called a “difference of opinion.” You may thank him, if you wish, for clarifying that irrelevancy.
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I stand corrected. Sometimes it is a reason to burn people at the stake. Sometimes it is a reason to throw stones at them until they are killed. Someitmes it is a reason to throw them in the water. If they float to the surface (I think that is how it went), then God proved that they were not guilty (of whatever they were guilty of, often witchcraft).
Sometimes a difference of opinion is called heresy. Sometimes it is called apostacy. Fortunately, we live in 21st Century America, where mostly we post comments on blog web sites, and mostly among Christians, who have mostly outgrown their historical tendency to sometimes kill people with whom they have had differences of opinion.
Unless, you are a fetus, in which case you are at great risk of being murdered for your difference of opinion (that you should be allowed to exist and suffer as a Fallen human being), where you have a chance to be Saved before you die and miss out on Heaven.
My difference of opinion is that we all die and that is the end of us.
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In message #28, Roger Patno said:
I suggest that you take your ugly hate filled words and stuff them back into your black hearts. In my mind you are both an abomination to all that is good and holy.
The context was that he was speaking of some terrible experiences with miscarriages. I wish Roger no harm, and I am sorry his wife and others had awful experiences. Nevertheless, life is full of suffering and terrible crimes of man against man, and I have been puzzled why evangelical Christians obsess so much about abortion as if it is a worse crime than others such as murder (of adults) and of mass murder against groups (genocide).
I think I have figured out a possible reason. I will post a comment about it, perhaps in today’s Whirled Views.
I predict many people will not like my speculation about this.
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Randomg: You call it “obsess.” Fine. But it’s hardly difficult to understand why a group of people would be troubled by what they see as the murder of helpless human beings. Really, if that kind of thing is a mystery to you, it’s no wonder you don’t understand thing one about Christianity despite having it explained repeatedly to you.
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Anyone with a difference of opinion from Random is either a hater or just wrong. Random comes from a long line of people who used to kill others over differences of opinion. I have no idea of his historical nationality, but if he is a human, that is what happened a lot.
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Mumsee – I’ve never met Random personally, but I’m pretty sure he is a human.
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Back to what is not a blessing, I’ll never forget when 0bama said he didn’t want his daughters “punished with a baby.” What a blasphemous perspective on the equal value of evey life.
KAREN O, thank you so much! for relating the ripple effects of the unpredictable blessings of your brother’s protected right to life. Your narrative and mine, repeated over and over again in so many families, will ultimately open the eyes of those who want to see instead of indulging in a selfish prophetic world of arbitrary death sentences.
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Roger #60 – Yes, God is so good. He is also merciful in His wisdom. You remind me of a totally unexpected aspect of my son contacting me: His (adoptive) father wants to meet me to thank me, and I want to thank him, as well. That’s a meeting I yearn for yet to come this winter. I never forgot my son, especially on his birthdays, but felt it was his decision to make on finding me. I registered my contact info on a few websites and left it up to him. I’d actually come close to wondering if he was dead or simply typical of sons who aren’t as apt to search out their birth mothers. I don’t care that I may never live to see God’s ultimate purpose in this. I am thankful for His blessings so far.
God bless you for your trusting, loving heart and I will definitely keep all of you in my prayers. Amen.
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Random argues with himself.
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When RANDOM disagrees he is discussing.
When we disagree we are getting emotional and whining.
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http://wakepedia.blogspot.com/2009/09/unborn-babies-can-learn-yep.html
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Random what is your purpose here?
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Yes RandomN..
God has inspired and providentially preserved His Word perfect in the Bible. It is thus sacred, infallible, and final authority.
Always dump Bible critical information..it’s all worthless.
“And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.” (Lu 24:27)
“And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.” (Mr 15:38)
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Zach91 – 74
I don’t think he knows -
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RandomN,
We’re all animals?
Ridiculous.
You’ve looked at WAY too many dinosaur cartoons, in the WAY-too-expensive required reading list booklets, within the the student college loan extraction industry.
“But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.” (Mr 10:6)
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I’m trying to figure out how a person whose pseudo-Biblical mental envelopings, qualified her to land a game piece on the prized, longer ladder square in “Chutes and Ladders – Dean Version”.
I mean, come on.
It’s a foundation of cardboard.
—-
Back to the Rock…
“Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.” (Mt 7:24-25)
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Random,
You ask why do Christians “obsess” about abortion? It appears to me no one has attempted to answer your original question.
I think it has something to do with justice. Jesus said that whatever we do to the least of these, you do to me. How a society treats the truly weak and helpless is a measure of that society’s sense of justice. God also commands that we shall not murder. Whether it is an unborn child or an adult, the forcible destruction of another human being is an affront to God and a gross injustice. The awful thing is, in our heart of hearts, we are all murderers – if we so much as call our brother an idiot, we reveal the murderous hatred in our hearts. But for those who are in Christ, we are learning to put off that old garment of hatred, and put on the New Man, which is Christ, which is only possible because He has given us new hearts that seek justice with mercy.
Now, may I ask you a question or two? You said, “…in proportion to all the violence in the world and throughout history, the posting on wmb on abortion strikes me as obsessive, irrational, and useless.” Does that include your posts, too? Or, are you seeking to justify your own life, as did Cain? (Genesis 4:3-16)
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We enrolled our daughter in an Episcopal day school in Phoenix, AZ from K thru 6. It was a great school. The “creme” of Phoenix families sent their kids there. We were “nobodies”, but were treated as well as any others.
As a result, we attended church there on the occasions that our daughter performed with the Chorister group. Fantastic opportunity for her. One Easter, the sermon was about David and the child he had by Bathsheba and how he would see him again in heaven after the child died. OK, but what about Jesus Christ and how He fits into the story? Another Easter, the sermon was about “the daffodil and the butterfly”, but NADA about Jesus Christ and His resurrection and its significance to the Christian.
Bottom line: Great school, gtreat education, poor theology, empty spirituality.
Yet God was there, working in the hearts and lives of some.
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JASIU — Is it fair to judge the church without reference to the liturgy, which, as far as I can determine, is a complete rehearsal of Christian orthodoxy.
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I’ve come to find that the reason pro-aborts don’t concern themselves much with the unborn is because their born. And since they’re alive, they can’t be bothered by someone else. Mostly just themselves. And since they believe in evolution, they believe they’re really nothing but an oil spill waiting to be a human. That means they’re really not worth all that much at birth because… it’s only a little oil spill. Not a big oil spill like I am!
Oh yeah… and their mommy and daddy didn’t abort them. It doesn’t bother them much that a saline solution is used or that forecepts and a dagger are injected into heads. I mean… it’s just a little oil spill.
I mean.. dogs and a piping plovers are more important than an
a human life.
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