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Private schools in Pakistan
Could improved educational opportunities help to “defang” the Taliban in Pakistan? Here is an interesting story that highlights the growing number of private schools in the country:
Pakistan is seeing a surge in private schools, a trend some find hopeful in a country where the government education system is decrepit and the other alternative is religious schools, known here as madrasas, which offer little education beyond memorizing the Quran and are seen as one source of Islamic militancy.
The U.S., for one, says it plans to invest in private schools as part of a multibillion-dollar aid package designed to erode extremism in the nuclear-armed country battered by Taliban attacks.
Topic: Education, WorldMagBlog
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back to top63 Comments to “Private schools in Pakistan”
Does “private schools” mean that Islamists militants will not have control of them? I hardly think so, considering their agenda.
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Well, I understand your pessimism, Roger, but you never know. If these kids are taught what’s really important, maybe by the time they grow up, things might be changed enough that their education might make a difference. I think it’s worth a try. Wouldn’t attempt to guarantee the results.
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I think this might already be underway in Afghanistan – have to check.
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In Afghanistan it’s the private schools that resist religous extremism; in the U.S., it’s the public schools that help serve this need. How often is homeschooling the American equivalent of the madrasa?
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Yeah, I would imagine that many private schools in Pakistan, while technically not Madrassas, still teach the precepts of Islam as part of the core curriculum. And we’re going to be funding that. If we tried to fund Christian schools in India or Indonesia or someplace, there would be howls of protest.
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I also wonder if this is similar to the phenomenon of small private schools in neighboring India. There, poor people are often able to send their children to private, one-room schools in their neighborhoods that might be run by only a single person. For just a few rupees a week, their kids learn to read and write and learn other basic subjects. Of course they are totally unregulated:
http://www.city-journal.org/2009/bc0619lj.html
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Many non-religious folks would support the teaching “the precepts of Islam as part of the core curriculum.” Ideally, however, such precepts should be introduced alongside those of other religions–Christianity, Hinduism, perhaps even the cargo cults. Sound reasonable?
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Not often is a homeschooled American receiving an education equivalent to a madrassa. The purpose of homeschooling is to give the kid real attention and keep them from being influenced by the uncontrolled public schools. American homeschooled kids do as well and better academically than public school kids.
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Don’t get me wrong. I’m all for homeschooling. It can provide a great education, even a superior one. That said, the homeschooler is often pushing a distinctively religious agenda, and this often has the intended effect of religious mind control and extremism, and all the perhaps unintended baggage that comes with these.
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CT, I don’t recognize any homeschoolers I know in your “religious mind control and extremism” statement. That sounds like a pretty strong bias and I wonder where it comes from.
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CT
You seem to suggest that there exists some sort of educational system or curriculum which does not have an agenda.
“Mind control” is not just a “religious” phenomenon.
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Nana, I suppose that one person’s “religious mind control and extremism” could be another person’s level-headedness. That’s not to say that there aren’t any objective standards here; it’s just to say that agreement about these things might be difficult to achieve. Let’s start here: what criteria would you accept for identifying “religious extremism”?
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That’s not to say that there aren’t any objective standards here…
Help Nana out by defining yours, CT. I don’t think she’s met you yet and it would be helpful for her to at least think you find abortion logically in the best interest of the unborn before she begins to answer your questions.
OH
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OldHick,
That’s not my exactly position on abortion. But, since I’m somewhat of an outsider here, why not begin by suggesting some criteria that an insider, like yourself, would accept? Please assist.
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If you are the same CT who attempted to portray abortion as the best interest of the unborn several months ago, I wish to have no part in your argumentation and wish to enlighten others to the nature of your “logic”.
OH
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OldHick,
If you’re going to indignantly protest conversation with me, at least try to do this with an accurate portrayal of the position you find distasteful. (As I recall, you’re a bit inconsistent here. You don’t indignantly protest conversation with others, who defend distasteful views: e.g., Amphipolis’s view that unborn babies cetainly deserve far worse than dismemberment.)
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#15 is clear enough, CT.
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OldHick,
You are being less than honest here, and this a particularly inappropriate way to attempt to derail the present conversation. Back on the abortion threads (an entirely different topic, please note), you refused further discussion by conceding your own emotional inability to control your anger with regard to this topic. That is why you chose not to participate in that conversation.
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If that isn’t, CT, then you or anyone else may revisit our exchanges of this past summer. My response to your logic is found at post number 65 in the thread below.
http://online.worldmag.com/2009/08/10/abortion-divides-virginia-campaign/
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And you continue with the subtle ad hominems as before. I only speak of your logic, not you personally CT. I have admitted and will continue to admit that I’ve refrained from engagement with your posts because they anger me as they’ve angered others.
I simply post a reminder for those who may wish to engage your posts, that is all. It’s an open forum of course and others are free to interact with what you write as they see fit.
OH
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CT, you’re the one who introduced “religious mind control and extremism,” and that was my question to you.
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You may have the thread back.
My apologies for the momentary derailment. I am done.
OH
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Thank you! OH; much appreciated.
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Nana, so back on the earlier topic, before OldHick’s “contribution”:
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Hey, humanist education doesn’t work in the US of A.
So, I know, let’s export it to Pakistan! It’s bound to “work” there!
Feh. More humanist/statist “salvation by education” bushwa.
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CT: Not speaking for NANA, only myself.
How about this “criteria” ?
Teach them hate, to murder by strapping bombs on their bodies and blow up innocent people in the name of Alah !
Not good enough for you, I suspect.
No need to reply as I will not play your game any further.
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CT, you’re either reading way too fast with blinders on or you don’t care to answer my initial question.
Frank makes a semi-good point
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Good point also from Roger. Where did you intend to go with this CT?
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I know a man who has started a Christian School movement in Indonesia, the largest Muslim country in the world. The schools are so good that even the rich want their kids to go there. They have the best test scores in their state. There are other Christian Schools getting started. They are the best schools.
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Nana
If you get a direct reply from CT, let me know. I will also let you know that within a handful of posts, CT will suggest to you that you are arguing from what he/she terms the “gut reaction fallacy”. Any answer you offer CT can and will be framed in the context of an emotional “gut” reaction based on illogical religious beliefs which cannot be proven.
CT will thus subtlely posit the superiority of his/her own logic because he/she is the only one not reacting from his/her gut but on pure logic and reason. CT will then begin to bait you and others with more argumentation and will continue to dodge specific questions posed to him/her because he/she has deemed them as all “gut reactions”.
CT wins. It doesn’t matter what the topic will be. You could talk about Kool-Aide flavors and the same pattern will emerge. My best to you.
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Got it OH. All is well. Night has fallen, unless my inquiring mind gets the best of me. Thank you and the same back.
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I don’t think Kool-Aid has an “e” on the end of it.
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I believe it is “Aide” in France.
You’re name-brand-bilingual.
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Roger Patno suggests the following criterion for identifying religious extremism:
Nana apparently endorses this.
However, the suggestion seems to be quite inadequate as a general criterion for identifying religious extremism (at least if we proposing necessary conditions), unless we presuppose that that religious extremism is necessarily Islamic and it always takes the form of endorsing suicide bombing. But that seems a bit too narrow.
One might even think: only a religous extremist of another flavor would be tempted by such a definition.
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Does the big, fat pitcher of red goo and ice crash through vine-covered walls of outdoor cafes in France?
OH
I’m going to get in trouble for hijacking this thread. I’m done.
Bye.
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Or I can stick around and offer NFL-like color commentary of CT’s posts if he/she doesn’t mind.
For example. (insert yellow circle around the following) –
Nana apparently endorses this.
See, right there. Boom! A subtle, furtive suggestion that Nana endorses a comment made by Roger Patino. Nana said nothing of the kind, however.
Yet CT’s “fake handoff” is “Before I answer Nana’s question, I will make Nana look like she says or believes something in order to discredit her inquries.”
Nice fake.
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It sets up the defense to commit the “Gut Reaction Fallacy”. We’re a few plays away from it, but its coming.
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OldHick, your tendency to try to interrupt any conversation in which I am engaged seems a bit neurotic.
Nana responded to Roger with these words: “Good point also from Roger.” Since there is some uncertainty as to what precisely she is endorsing, I qualified my claim with “apparently.”
Maybe you should take a time out.
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And check out the end-around to the back here…
One might even think: only a religous extremist of another flavor would be tempted by such a definition.
This Peyton Manning stuff. He sniffs then baits the defense, anticipating to draw out the “relgious” nature of the defenders so he/she can exploit it.
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No time outs, CT. I want to save them.
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You play a good game and people need to see it, CT.
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For what it is, that is.
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I’ll take a five yard penalty, however on the Nana comment. She does appear to endorse Mr. Patino.
Instant reply is helpful. My apologies. Do continue.
OH
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Quickly, CT, the House is now beginning debate on excluding abortion funding from its healthcare bill. And why don’t you asnwer my original question on your definition of religious extremism? I think that’s what it was. I’ll check…..
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OldHick, your tendency to try to interrupt any conversation in which I am engaged seems a bit neurotic.
Yes, CT. You are right. It does seem a bit neurotic. Once again, I’ve allowed my emotions to dictate the level of discourse with you. You are the one, after all, who is attempting to engage the thread topic, not me.
For that I repent, apologize in all sincerity and leave you and Nana to have at it. Seriously, CT. My apologies. I’m acting the fool, here. Not you.
OH
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CT,
How interesting to find you posting on this thread –
I remember you well from several threads but the one I remember the most is “Compulsory abortion” – Lynn Vincent wrote that piece in late February – I also remember your “Loving parent argument” -that was one of the worst arguments I’ve ever heard. Anyone can look back on the “Compulsory abortion” thread and read what you wrote regarding abortion.
Do you still stand by your “Loving parent argument?
OH – 13 – you spotted it right -
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Teaching violent, lethal, religious hate via religion feeds on itself with poison that attracts other bitter souls seeking to make excuses for their own angry failings.
I doubt this will happen in a private school options to madrasas.
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Victoria
I thought you would be helpful in bringing to mind previous posts for the benefit of Nana and others who were not familiar with CT’s logic. Thanks. I could only go back to August.
CT I stand by what I say in 45. I am sincere in owing you an apology for my neurotic commentary, but not for exposing the nature of your posts.
OH
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Yes, OH hit the CT nail on the head and led me to catch up on a previous thread. What is it with these haters Victoria? Why do they want spread their intolerance? Maybe CT could answer, but he doesn’t seem to want to answer any questions seriously. He seems stuck in a rut of denial. Shame.
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Nana – 49
Yes lots of intolerance, no, no, no answers – just the same ole comments – Another one was “The politics of abortion” by Edward Pitts written and posted back in July.
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Victoria’s gift is in sniffing out previous posters. She’s got a photographic memory of who, what, when, where and why. She knows a sock puppet when she sees one, too.
She even “caught” me with the Iambic Pentameter bit!
I have come to more fully appreciate her presence on the blog. She’s good at going back and finding stuff on other blogs, too where WMB antagonists have posted.
I dunno how she does it but I’m grateful she does.
Thanks Victoria. I thought you’d be interested and have lots to offer on this particular situation.
OH
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OH
Thanks for all the kind remarks, I appreciate them –
I’m glad your back to being Old Hickory,
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Victoria
Me, too.
Thank you.
Blessings.
OH
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You are welcome, of course.
OH
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Blessings to you too OH
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Please try not to play CT’s game. Make him define terms, if he wants terms define. And when he tells you what you think (before you say what you think), just say, “Please stop making up things about me.”
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Kyle, thanks for your remarks.
There are NO TERMS, nothing to define – this individual has done this in the past – some of us know how it works – OH and I have made it clear what the game is, how it has been played in the past.
Matthew 10:16
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Are we still printing money?
I thought the US was overdrawn.
Are we overdrawn here in the US but have foreign bank accounts with which to hand out money?
Oh, you don’t like us? Ok, we’ll only give you $300 million and not the $350 million we promised yesterday.
I guess if I want Social Security I’ll have to become a foreigner.
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Kyle,
Forgive the interruption, but … Victoria is in no position to ask others to “Please stop making up things about me,” since that is her own M.O. with people she doesn’t like.
Either that, or playing guilt-by-association games rather than engaging honestly with points she disagrees with.
The “sock puppet detective”?
Indeed. Isn’t that … special.
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Frank
For what its worth, sir, and with all due respect to you, there is merit in accepting people where they are, despite their failures and inconsistencies.
I’ve confronted Victoria about her comments in regards to what I post. It was a conviction of the Spirit I believe to confront, exhort but then accept her.
Does acceptance mean carte blanche agreement with everything she writes? No. Does that mean one needs to continue the belittling? Certainly not. None of us have air-tight arguments or logic techniques which are exempt from constructive critique.
I’m only trying to see the good and be encouraging to perhaps build a platform of constructive dialogue with Victoria. Do I think she’s done ripping me every now and again?
No. But at least now I think we have more of a chance at seeing eye to eye than previously. She does have the ability to hear others and listen. It’s easy to belittle. It takes more effort to attempt to build constructive dialogue.
So your chiding of my comments I find to be somewhat undermining the attempt I’ve made to love a sister in Christ with whom I’ve often disagreed.
Anyhow. You are free of course to say what you think. Just my perspective on the matter.
OH
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Last year when I went to Pakistan I met Greg Mortenson….for those of you who do not know this man, he is truly one of my heroes in life…..go to http://www.threecupsoftea.com to learn more about him.
Truly this can work just as much as the crazy people who go with me to the ends of the earth to help people start small businesses. We have seen so many former jihadists decide that building a business is much better than building a bomb.
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Yes, IAF, I mentioned the book to OH the other day! Business, schools and tea. Amen.
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Let me recommend another book- The Beautiful Tree: A Personal Journey Into How the World’s Poorest People Are Educating Themselves by James Tooley. Good follow up to 3 Cups of Tea, and relevant to this post.
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