Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., has died at age 77.
Click to Print
Include Comments
Sarkozy: “No place for the burqa”
In the ongoing battle between “melting pot” and “multiculturalism”:
French President Nicolas Sarkozy says there is no place for full face and body veils such as the burqa, or for the debasement of women, in France.
Sarkozy says all beliefs will be respected in France but says “becoming French means adhering to a form of civilization, to values, to morals.”
Sarkozy said Thursday during a speech on national identity that “France is a country where there is no place for the burqa.”
Topic: Global, WorldMagBlog
You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed.
back to top64 Comments to “Sarkozy: “No place for the burqa””
France is militant in its secularism. I dislike the implications this has on free expression of religion.
Report comment to moderator
Can you spell “fatwa?”
Report comment to moderator
how soon before we read or hear about a Muslim attack or Riots in Frances?
Report comment to moderator
I guess this means I won’t be able to wear my designer strapless satin Burqa when I visit Paris this spring?
Report comment to moderator
Are Nuns and Monk allowed to wear habits in France?
Report comment to moderator
The burqa is a cultural thing, not a religious thing. There’s nothing in the Koran requiring women to wear one.
The French are French, their culture should be respected, too. I agree that there will be a fatwa, maybe riots, but this takes courage. The Muslims went to France, not the other way around. They are trying to set up a separate culture within the country of France (among other places). Respect goes both ways. If the don’t like it, they can go home.
And remember that they don’t view freedom of speech or religion the way we do. Our concepts don’t prevail there.
Report comment to moderator
This really is about “becoming French.” Push is coming to shove.
Report comment to moderator
Women can still dress modestly and cover their heads without wearing a burqa. As NJLawyer says, it’s not actually a religious requirement, despite what some fringe groups say.
Report comment to moderator
But how long before they decide that nuns habits, Yarmulkes and cross necklaces are not French enough?
Report comment to moderator
The net effect of this will be a mass emigration of Islamists from France. Of those who stay behind and comply with this dictate it will be said they are MINOs (muslims in name only).
Next thing you know Sarko will mandate gals in France shave under their arms.
Report comment to moderator
There’s an enormous difference between a nun’s habit and a burqa–see the photo at Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burqa
Anyone can be hidden in a burqa; a nun’s habit reveals the woman’s face–which is, I believe, part of Sarkozy’s irritation with the whole thing.
Report comment to moderator
Sawgunner, THAT is not just French, that’s European in general. I had a German aunt who saw me take a razor to my legs and she went nuts.
I think there is good cause to outlaw the burka on the grounds of safety. I think we could outlaw it being worn here by someone driving a vehicle as it impedes peripheral vision. I think it is up to the Western societies to come down on the side of assimilation rather than accommodation unless it is a true religious issue. Muslims could certainly participate in our society and join with conservative Christians in changing the immodest way our women seem to be dressing.
And Sarkozy has a point that the burqa debases women. Being covered up like that, so completely, keeps the woman from being recognized as a person.
Report comment to moderator
“becoming French means adhering to a form of civilization, to values, to morals.”
That is a legitimate statement. There are certain things a culture is. People who migrate to a country should adhere to that. I have no objection to people coming to America, but I dislike it when they want to make America like the country they left.
Report comment to moderator
But you want their recipes, right? ‘Cause I do.
Report comment to moderator
NJL (14): What I don’t understand is, why would people who don’t drink wine move to France in the first place?
Report comment to moderator
The short answer, StuBob, is jobs. Same thing for Germany, though. Why would you go where they brew all that beer? As Chas says, there are some cultural things that are legitimate.
It’s fall, it’s time for some Bock Beer, but I haven’t had any. I think about it, but I don’t buy because I’m not a drinker, but the German in me still thinks about Oktoberfest at this time of year.
Report comment to moderator
Good for Sarkozy!! I wish our idiot had that kind of courage.
Unless someone starts to stand up to the Muslims, there will be no French culture left, or German, or British…or American.
Report comment to moderator
But if the World Court can order Italy to remove all crucifixes from any public building and say that people can’t wear them, where is the World Court on this one? I was listening to NPR today (don’t be so shocked) and they were talking about what the Italian ruling would mean for the rest of the world. I had to make sure I wasn’t listening to Glen Beck as they were very defensive about what this could mean for America.
Report comment to moderator
Coceptually, what is the difference between Muslims demanding burqa’s and Christians demanding skirt or sleeve length, or in the case of nuns, habits and headdresses.
The message of both is the same; women are too dangerous or too evil to be allowed to dress as they please. Supposedly Christian and Muslim men are unable to deal with their sexual drives and insufficiently devoted to their own wives, so all women become subject to absurd, humiliating and depersonalizing rules.
Report comment to moderator
Both religions posit a god who supposedly wants to confine sex to reproduction, but gives (”designs”, if you will) us very prominent secondary sexual characteristics and nerve endings to go with them, which function both long before and long after healthy reproductive capability.
That is either a cruel joke, or a whopper of a mistake by an omnipotent being. Or these gods are simply a method of control, made up in their entirety by men who find control stimulating.
Report comment to moderator
Arcadia, Christians teach that everyone should dress modestly.
Report comment to moderator
Arcadia’s right! When will the senseless stoning of women in miniskirts by Christians be stopped? When will women stop being forced into the convent??….Oh, wait, none of that happens.
Report comment to moderator
Whether or not a burqa or other kinds of Islamic head covering our religious requirements, they are matters of free choice and it is not the place of a white, western man to tell Muslim women of color what is best for them. I recommend reading “Do Muslim Women Really Need Saving?” by Lila Abu-Lughod.
Report comment to moderator
John M: Try answering the question. Conceptually, what’s the difference?
kbells: I’m waiting to see the first Christian screed complaining about George Clooney’s pecs. If one assumes that the requirement of dressing modestly applies to both sexes, why have so many millions of pages been devoted to decrying female dress and practically none to male dress. Oh that’s right, women are mostly the Jezebels and whores so prominently featured on practically every page of your bibles. BTW, where’s the biblical punishment for men who aren’t virgins at marriage?
Report comment to moderator
Straw man alert.
Don’t feed the trolls.
Report comment to moderator
People are so confused at worldmagblg.
They are not sure when then should ally themselves with Muslims to oppose secular people and homosexuals, or should ally themselves with France to oppose the Muslims and preserve “Western Civilization,” or oppose France because it is European and secular or ally themselves with France to oppose Muslim dress and because France has nude beaches, or…
Stay tuned for new depths in confusion, perhaps excavated for you by Drill, drilling for oil on a nude beach.
Report comment to moderator
Arcadia, when was the last time you saw a man show up at the office with 80% of his legs showing. Woman are more likely to be turned on by a man who is well-dressed. Men are more likely to be turned on by a woman who is half dressed. And if George Clooney’s wouldn’t be allowed to showed his pecs in Church, yet I’ve seen young girls come to church wearing dresses that covered about as much as a towel would.
Report comment to moderator
I didn’t know President Nicolas Sarkozy had morals.
Report comment to moderator
At 10:15 I said, “Stay tuned for new depths in confusion…”
At 11:02 NOPM said, “I didn’t know Nicolas Sarkozy had morals.”
I guess if you are applying a dress (or undress) code to fanatical Muslim girls you are moral; if you are not praying in your Presidential Palace, you don’t have morals….
Report comment to moderator
Still waiting for someone, anyone, to distinguish the difference between Muslim thinking and Christian thinking on matters of dress for women.
And to explain why the god of “no sex except for procreation” made us so…well…sexy. And why he placed our hands so close to…
Joke, or mistake or made up by the preachers.
Oh, I know: ” ’cause he just did.”
kbells: Right, Brad and George and Leonardo or whoever are just so much sexier in a three piece suit than a bathing suit.
And women stuff money into the Chippendales’ thongs because they find them so intellectually stimulating.
Report comment to moderator
Burqa’s hide a man or a womans identity, this presents a problem and threat if someone is wanted for a crime, ANY CRIME. This could present a number of problems for any country. In this instance Sarkozy did the right thing.
Disallowing the burqa is a security measure -
Report comment to moderator
Arcadia, I’ll try.
I think that Christian men want women to dress modestly, and Christian women agree, because of not wanting to put temptation before other men. For Christian women it’s a way of making it clear that she has nothing to sell or to give away. It actually empowers women because it recognizes the intrinsic power that their sex appeal gives them. Not in a degrading way, as though she is a whore, but in a way that makes sexuality something precious and private–something that is beautiful in an intimate setting but tawdry and in appropriate in a public setting. It also reminds us hormone-laden men that she is a person rather than a piece of something. We should look into her eyes and listen to her words.
I suppose it is similar in Islam, except that the most radical seem to believe that men cannot control themselves unless they do not even see any speck of a woman’s skin or hair. No Christians are that extreme. In Islam there also seems to be an element of not trusting the woman. If some man is attracted to her, it seems that Muslim men do not trust the woman to say “No, thank you.” Hence the executions of women who committed adultery by simply being in the presence of another man.
Report comment to moderator
Why did God make us so sexual but then put limits on sexuality?
How about he wanted to give us things, such as eating food and having sex, that we would have to learn to exercise control over in order to have stronger character. Perhaps he wanted us to appreciate the joy of sex but also challenge us to enjoy it wisely and in a way that reflects his nature, character, and plan.
Report comment to moderator
I personally feel that if a Muslim lady desires to wear her Burga, she should be allowed to do so. What I have a problem with is some local quasi Islamic self appointed spiritual gestapo forcing Muslim women to dress a certain way.
If a lady wishes to dress in her traditional fashion that she is comfortable with, then let her. If a Muslim lady wishes to dress in a western fashion, then let her.
The State has no right to tell women how they should dress. The State can set limits on what is decent and what is not.
The president of France is way out of line. Period.
If a man has a problem controlling his libido, then the problem is his…..not the woman’s!
Report comment to moderator
Maybe if all the countries made those requirements at the same time it would throw the Muslims into a frenzy.
The Burqa that covers the face goes too far. A man could be hiding behind it. Covering the rest should be up to her. Notice I said SHOULD. Women in some Muslim communities get a choice? Lots of luck I say to the Muslim women.
Report comment to moderator
Good stuff Kyle.
Thank you for helping SOME MEN see that some women choose to dress modestly without a man telling them they have to.
Report comment to moderator
While homeschooling, a missionary family brought to the rest of our minds how we dress when we go SWIMMING. (They just chose not to wear bathing suits with men in same pool.) Most BATHING SUITS are pretty much just like underwear. Why cover up parts when walking down the street and in church and not cover up the same parts when on the beach? There are bathing suits that cover up more parts–like the little skirt, etc.
Report comment to moderator
FWIW, most of the things we’d consider characteristically French are illegal in Muslim countries.
Report comment to moderator
Arcadia
Why does blood drip from your lips when you come to this site?
Report comment to moderator
“Still waiting for someone, anyone, to distinguish the difference between Muslim thinking and Christian thinking on matters of dress for women.”
What am I chopped liver? Like I’ve already said, Christians expect everyone to dress modestly.
Report comment to moderator
“And women stuff money into the Chippendales’ thongs because they find them so intellectually stimulating.”
Arcadia, Can you honestly say that the average office attire or the average teen fashion or the average bathing suit reveals as much on a man as it does on a woman?
Report comment to moderator
Why does blood drip from your lips when you come to this site?
What in the world does that mean?
Report comment to moderator
If I was a Christian who thought it was absolutely mandatory for women to wear long skirts, or for nuns to wear habits, I could answer his question.
Report comment to moderator
The “white, western, male” society — which description is inaccurate by the way — of France has the right to say what it wants in its own country. The French have a right to be French.
Disallowing the burqa IN FRANCE is not only telling people who come into that country “hey, you’re in France” but it can also be construed as a safety issue, and as Victoria noted, a security issue, both of which are legitimate concerns. And as StuBob notes, a lot of what is considered French isn’t foisted upon Muslims.
What I see on the news is Hillary Clinton, etc., donning a head scarf when they go the Muslim countries. Why is that a requirement? I think Sarkozy is doing a good thing for Muslim women. He’s freeing them. He is not asking them to strip.
Report comment to moderator
RN #42
Because it seems that he comes here just to take a bite out of Christianity.
Report comment to moderator
Is it true that American women (missionaries and military women) who go to MUSLIM countries have to dress as the Muslim women do?
Report comment to moderator
Don’t European TV ads depict naked people? And what about their shows on their regular TV channels?
Do you think Muslims in France own TVs?
Or do they keep a lock box on it to control what their women watch?
Report comment to moderator
News2me – 35
There was a news piece sometime last year where MEN WERE wearing the burqa, their faces covered – therefore the identity was HIDDEN.
If women want to wear a tent covering them from neck to feet, and a covering for their head, that’s fine – but NOT the FRONT of their FACE!
Report comment to moderator
I don’t want any government deciding what is a “true religious issue”. Freedom is important, and other than in instances where there is a true issue of needing to see someone’s face (driver’s licences, ok I get that), don’t put laws that limit free expression in place.
Report comment to moderator
Not just the license. Actually driving a car would be good, too, to be able to see, as well as being able to see a red light… the list is endless.
This is a French issue. They are under no duty to respond to American opinion based on an interpretation of the American Constitution. I give them a lot of credit for facing it head on.
Report comment to moderator
And no one says they can’t wear a burqa at home.
Report comment to moderator
What I really see here is an attempt to defend Muslim men treating their wives and daughters as second class citizens and imposing that in a country that doesn’t feel that way about women. A country not their own.
Report comment to moderator
Is it a woman wearing a burqa or a man carrying a bomb?
Report comment to moderator
I just noticed this: “battle between “melting pot” and “multiculturalism””
The US has been called the melting pot, and we have always assimilated those who come here and turned them into Americans. That’s our way. France is still France, it has a French culture, and that’s worth saving, for the most part.
Report comment to moderator
So is the Sarkozy government going to ban burqas, or is he just pontificating in order to score points with the xenophobic crowd?
I can see no justification for banning them. If you’re worried about safety, then ban all clothing that covers the face. Or ban all loose, baggy clothing that could conceal a bomb. But…that’s sort of nutty.
Report comment to moderator
Buddyglass has a good point. If this is a safety issue than the law should address those issues. No covering the face while driving. No baggy clothes in high risk areas such as airports. If this is a religious issue, than that’s another reason I’m glad I’m not French
Report comment to moderator
Covering the face with a MASK such as the burqa impedes the ability of law enforcement to identify those who are ‘WANTED’ for a number of crimes. WANTED CRIMINALS could walk about freely, never being discovered because their face was covered.
Report comment to moderator
Y’know, there’s been a France about as long as there’s been Islam, and the French (whom I can’t stand, as a rule) have a right to determine the rules of living there. For instance, it used to be that French women could only give their children approved French names. You want to make something up? That’s tough taters in France. I don’t know that this is still the case. Perhaps I missed the international uproar that resulted in its reversal. What I have noticed, though, is that liberals worldwide became defenders of Muslim practices on about September 12th, 2001.
Report comment to moderator
I don’t think I’d want a man in a burka using a women’s bathroom, either (a potential rapist coming in as a woman). There really are a lot of reasons that covering completely in public isn’t safe for other people, and I agree that a government has legitimate reasons to be concerned about the safety of its citizens.
Report comment to moderator
57. Then outlaw masks.
Report comment to moderator
#57:
Seriously? Criminals can die their hair, tan their skin and wear sunglasses too. Or like KB said, wear a mask. A non-Muslim woman could wear a dark veil that covers her face and claim to be on her way to a funeral. Etc.
#58:
I would have supported womens’ right to wear Burqas even before 9/11. And yes, the French have the right to self-govern. That doesn’t mean every law they pass is right or good, which is what’s being discussed here.
#59:
A man could cross-dress and go into a women’s restroom now. Also, in a womens’ restroom, the burqa-wearing woman could remove the veil portion. Since it’s just women. So maybe pass a law that they have to unveil in womens’ restrooms, if that’s the concern. But really, is the burqua really going to help a would-be rapist that much? I mean, guy could always just walk in, go to a stall if there’s nobody at the sink, sit there until there’s only one person in the restroom, then go to work. No burqa required. If there’s somebody at the sink when he walks in, then it’s, “Oops! Sorry! Wrong door!” All the burqa does is insure he can get from the door to a stall 100% of the time.
Report comment to moderator
Criminals often change their appearance, but even with these changes the authorities often recognize them. FBI agents are trained in the areas of recognition as are other law enforcement persons. Dying hair, etc., are old tricks, however most people have learned that law enforcement makes photos of different ways those who are ‘wanted’ could have changed their appearance.
All the scenarios do not equate in letting people run around with a tent over their body and a full tent over their head -
Report comment to moderator
Will we outlaw clowns and mimes too?
Report comment to moderator
Superciliousness?
Report comment to moderator
back to topJoin The Conversation
You need to be a registered user of WORLDonTheWeb.com to "join the conversation."
If you are not a member yet, what are you waiting for? Register / Login Now!