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Centers of the battle
We know why God loves cities. We also know why God hated Sodom.
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Sunday showdown: Both parties look to sway fence-sitters for this weekend's healthcare vote
Abortion debate: Pro-lifers differ on abortion provisions found in the healthcare bill
Ken Blackwell praises Sen. Tom Coburn's warning to Democrats changing their nay votes on healthcare. 
Good morning!
On this day in 1863: President Abraham Lincoln delivered the Gettysburg Address.
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back to top182 Comments to “Whirled Views 11.19”
Mumsee, I am up early. Isn’t that great? Here at WorldMag we can cover you around the clock? Congratulations. And a Baby at Christmas! You are my hero.
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As best I can remember, I knew I was an atheist by the time I was ten years old. However, five years or so of reading worldmagblog have not convinced me of any reason to be anything else.
Well, OK, I am a hard case.
Has worldmagblog ever convinced anyone to become a Christian? What is the purpose of this web site?
Perhaps it has saved someone who was thinking of becoming an atheist from falling into the gulf.
If you were on the verge of becoming an atheist and reading worldmagblog saved you, do tell.
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Fox news has once again been busted for using footage of past events and to mislead their audience into thinking conservatives have more support than they actually do. This time they used footage from a ’08 campaign rally to claim to illustrate that Palin has huge crowds on her book tour. Just last week, Fox showed footage of Beck’s 9/12 rally and claimed it was footage of the much smaller Bachman lead anti-healthcare tea party.
Fox does this all the time. Just about every time a Republican gets into another sex scandal, they put his name on TV with a (D) next to it. When are people going to wake up and realize that FOX news is lying to them?
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I hope the “MIDDLE CLASS” people who voted for O are happy with what they got under the name of change and hope.
Capitalism means there is a possibility that you could have your own business.
Small business means independence. Sorry, that doesn’t work with what the WH has planned for America.
Under Democrats (Barney Frank & his friends) the banks are broke—won’t lend money to regular people.
Lots of people lost their homes. BIG companies are buying lots of foreclosed homes in Arizona.
Under the guise of GLOBAL WARMING, Dems are raising costs of needs (water, electricity, daycare, etc.).
Putting DAYCAREs out of business under the guise of higher fees from the DEPT of HEALTH?
$3,900 if you participate in new gov’t health program.
$13,400 if you DON’T participate.
The gov’t gets more people and we get higher taxes. Remember the words growing Gov’t?
Why does it cost so much to have DAYCAREs teach children about nutrition, exercise, and smoking?
The gov’t use to provide stuff like that for free.
Has ANYONE figured out that this COMES straight to us FROM the WH?
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Our WATER bills are going so high, they are doing it in 3 installments.
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Do you think it is a coincidence that Obama closed the PRISON in CUBA and there just happens to be an almost empty minimum security prison ready to welcome those prisoners?
Guess where it is located? First 2 guesses don’t count.
Oh, alright, ILLINOIS. I know you are shocked and surprised. As was I.
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Schism begets schism – New Brighton Minn., via the AP:
“The split over gay clergy within the country’s largest Lutheran denomination has prompted a conservative faction to begin forming a new Lutheran church body separate from the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America.”
An anonymous pastor explains why those forming this new “Lutheran CORE” don’t simply join LCMS (Lutheran Church Missouri Synod): …the main issue is with the LCMS’ position that only males can be pastors. The second issue is with closed communion. Thirty years ago the issue of women in the pastoral office would not have been a divisive issue since no Lutheran denomination ordained women. What members fail to understand is that the same arguments for womens’ ordination are exactly the same as for accepting homosexuality. Once you ignore the Scripture on one point, it opns the door to anarchy
Sometimes satan doesn’t have to work very hard.
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KWATSON
Those people ABC were interviewing at the PALIN BOOK SIGNING were FAKE? All those people in line were FAKE? Oh wait, that was ABC I was watching when a young new voter said that Obama was not as QUALIFIED as Palin to be President. And that man wearing a sweatshirt with PALIN FOR PRESIDENT on the front who was interviewed was FAKE?
I thought Charlie Gibson would pee his pants!
Can you say deer in headlights?
Poor Charlie answering to Obama for that:
“She’s a NEW reporter! She thought reporting meant truth! We forgot to tell her that we are FOR OBAMA!”
Sorry Charlie, no invite to WH for holidays.
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“As best I can remember, I knew I was an atheist by the time I was ten years old.”
RN, I suspected all along you were just born that way. Just enjoy the lifestyle to which you were destined on the great evolutionary march towards . . . Oh drat . . . I always forget where y’all are headed.
Just have a nice day Random
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Minimum Security for terrorists?
Can you say Prison Break?
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KWatson, just do what most people in America do, don’t watch Fox News.
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RN
http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html
Hope this answers some of your questions.
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If MOST people in America were NOT WATCHING FOX NEWS, then Obama wouldn’t be so concerned about them.
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N2M, as I understand it, that IL prison does include some maximum security cells and the DoD will be in charge of any terrorists there – NOT providing those “simulus jobs” to the community.
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If Obama tries to take FOX NEWS out the way he would like to, people would be mad. No, he’s going to take FOX NEWS out the community organizer way.
I’m sure NO OTHER NEWS channels have used FOOTAGE from other events to talk about current events. That just wouldn’t be HONEST. And we know that all the other NEWS PEOPLE are ONLY after the TRUTH. It must be a BIG BURDEN on the OTHER news people to be SO HONEST ALL THE TIME.
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It’s called stock footage. You use it when you don’t have footage of the event you’re talking about, usually one that hasn’t taken place yet.
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Do you think there are people who watch FOX NEWS just to see what they can catch them on and then report it to their master?
I wonder which of his czars is assigned to freedom of speech.
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KBELLS #16
my point exactly
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Did you catch my problem in #15 2nd paragraph?
SARCASM–I think it’s in my DNA.
Yeah, yeah, that’s the ticket. I was BORN with it.
Some of the people at this site bring out the best in me.
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KBells: But when the event has taken place, you use footage from the event on which you’re reporting. And if you do have to use stock footage for some reason, you identify it as such.
Fox News’s intent was to deceive. Why would anyone defend that? Oh, because you like the political position Fox advocates, therefore any little ethical shortcuts they take are ok, and besides, “everybody does it,” right News2Me?
Lame.
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NANA
They better guard the prison with the military.
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There’s probably more than one czar monitoring FNC, including MSNBC, Media Matters, Daily KOS, Democracy Now, Center for American Progress – all front groups for 0bama. I say, let them. The more they complain, the more they turn off average viewers.
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#4- I hope the “MIDDLE CLASS” people who voted for O are happy with what they got under the name of change and hope.
We in the middle class hope we still at least have some change after April 15.
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Conan #20
That really hurts.
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Does anyone have a link to the alleged footage? I’d like to see it.
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PETER
I think that IS the change O was talking about.
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N2M, yes, I think that’s their plan, unlike Sen. Durbin’s touting so many new jobs. But the last I heard from a Chicago reporter, it isn’t even a done deal yet.
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From The Christian Science Monitor.
There’s a new slogan making its way onto car bumpers and across the Internet. It reads simply: “Pray for Obama: Psalm 109:8”
A nice sentiment?
Maybe not.
The psalm reads, “Let his days be few; and let another take his office.”
Presidential criticism through witty slogans is nothing new. Bumper stickers, t-shirts, and hats with “1/20/09” commemorated President Bush’s last day in office.
But the verse immediately following the psalm referenced is a bit more ominous: “Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.”
http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2009/11/16/biblical-anti-obama-slogan-use-of-psalm-1098-funny-or-sinister/
What fine Americans these people are, and so Christlike, too! Praying for the man to die. Sweet.
It goes a little further. Larry Schaeffer, a leading evangelical has stated that this type of thing is going to rile up the handful of people who represent the lunatic fringe of evangelicals. He also said that he wishes his fellow Christians would denounce this kind of thing, loudly and often.
I’m sure many WMB’ers are ordering t-shirts, mugs, and teddy bears with this on (for the young uns).
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NANA #7
Why do people go into a church that has been set up and then tell them they need to change?
And aren’t there plenty of Lutheran break-offs to go around?
Why do they think the Missouri Synod broke off in the first place?
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O meant nickels and dimes????
Oh, those lefties, they have no sense of humor! And it means a lot of people will have to pick up their Bibles to find out what the verse says. Thomas1 did.
Mumsee, I didn’t understand Kim’s opening post, so I went back to yesterday. You must have the neatest household. I guess you can adjust to just about anything. Christmas is going to be a blast in your house.
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#12
Thank you for the link.
A couple of interesting quotes:
didn’t realize that the reason the topic of God weighed so heavily on my mind, was because God was pressing the issue.
Perhaps this means: “I realized I am mortal and hope to live forever.”
Why Jesus? Look throughout the major world religions and you’ll find that Buddha, Muhammad, Confucius and Moses all identified themselves as teachers or prophets. None of them ever claimed to be equal to God. Surprisingly, Jesus did. That is what sets Jesus apart from all the others.
I am skeptical of anyone who introduces himself to me as a “prophet.” I am even more skeptical of anyone who tells me his God.
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We had a woman come from another church into our church like she was on a mission.
She wanted us to have prophesying, speaking in tongues, and who knows what else. She was continually getting in the elders’ faces.
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Maybe instead of proof texting, the whole imprecatory psalm should be read in its entirety before using God’s word out of context:
Psa 109:1 For the choir director. A Psalm of David. O God of my praise, Do not be silent!
Psa 109:2 For they have opened the wicked and deceitful mouth against me; They have spoken against me with a lying tongue.
Psa 109:3 They have also surrounded me with words of hatred, And fought against me without cause.
Psa 109:4 In return for my love they act as my accusers; But I am in prayer.
Psa 109:5 Thus they have repaid me evil for good And hatred for my love.
Psa 109:6 Appoint a wicked man over him, And let an accuser stand at his right hand.
Psa 109:7 When he is judged, let him come forth guilty, And let his prayer become sin.
Psa 109:8 Let his days be few; Let another take his office.
Psa 109:9 Let his children be fatherless And his wife a widow.
Psa 109:10 Let his children wander about and beg; And let them seek sustenance far from their ruined homes.
Psa 109:11 Let the creditor seize all that he has, And let strangers plunder the product of his labor.
Psa 109:12 Let there be none to extend lovingkindness to him, Nor any to be gracious to his fatherless children.
Psa 109:13 Let his posterity be cut off; In a following generation let their name be blotted out.
Psa 109:14 Let the iniquity of his fathers be remembered before the LORD, And do not let the sin of his mother be blotted out.
Psa 109:15 Let them be before the LORD continually, That He may cut off their memory from the earth;
Psa 109:16 Because he did not remember to show lovingkindness, But persecuted the afflicted and needy man, And the despondent in heart, to put them to death.
Psa 109:17 He also loved cursing, so it came to him; And he did not delight in blessing, so it was far from him.
Psa 109:18 But he clothed himself with cursing as with his garment, And it entered into his body like water And like oil into his bones.
Psa 109:19 Let it be to him as a garment with which he covers himself, And for a belt with which he constantly girds himself.
Psa 109:20 Let this be the reward of my accusers from the LORD, And of those who speak evil against my soul.
Psa 109:21 But You, O GOD, the Lord, deal kindly with me for Your name’s sake; Because Your lovingkindness is good, deliver me;
Psa 109:22 For I am afflicted and needy, And my heart is wounded within me.
Psa 109:23 I am passing like a shadow when it lengthens; I am shaken off like the locust.
Psa 109:24 My knees are weak from fasting, And my flesh has grown lean, without fatness.
Psa 109:25 I also have become a reproach to them; When they see me, they wag their head.
Psa 109:26 Help me, O LORD my God; Save me according to Your lovingkindness.
Psa 109:27 And let them know that this is Your hand; You, LORD, have done it.
Psa 109:28 Let them curse, but You bless; When they arise, they shall be ashamed, But Your servant shall be glad.
Psa 109:29 Let my accusers be clothed with dishonor, And let them cover themselves with their own shame as with a robe.
Psa 109:30 With my mouth I will give thanks abundantly to the LORD; And in the midst of many I will praise Him.
Psa 109:31 For He stands at the right hand of the needy, To save him from those who judge his soul.
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One of the stories in the Bible that mystify me that so few people question it is Abraham ready to kill his son because God told him to.
In our times, people who actually kill their children (as a few do) are usually regarded as mentally ill or as criminal. Whether the story of Abraham is actually based on real events is hard to know, but if it did, perhaps in those times you could get awy with saying that God was talking to you when you threatened or harmed children.
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I was struck by a remark in yesterdays wmb where somebody referred to the President of the United States as a “snake.”
Actually, we have snakes where we live, though fortunately, they are not poisonous. My wife is quite fond of them.
Nevertheless, it is amazing to me that people so obsessed with being treated with “respect” are so unwilling to speak of others with whom they disagree with the simplest degree of respect.
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N2M – exactly! The LCMS is the most conservative of them all, but too conservative for those leaving the ELCA. It’s one big mess and a confusing witness to the world. The “father of confusion” is loving this.
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Thomas #28
When something literally makes me laugh out loud. Hence
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JOE #33
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Last sentence of #12 should say, “tells me He is God.”
I dare say, every person reading this would regard with great suspicion any person who walked up to you and told you “Hell, I am God.”
If it is written in a book thousands of years old, then it must be true.
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The Raven by Edgar Allan Poe
Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary,
Over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore,
While I nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping,
As of some one gently rapping, rapping at my chamber door.
“‘Tis some visitor,” I muttered, “tapping at my chamber door –
Only this, and nothing more.”
Ah, distinctly I remember it was in the bleak December,
And each separate dying ember wrought its ghost upon the floor.
Eagerly I wished the morrow; – vainly I had sought to borrow
From my books surcease of sorrow – sorrow for the lost Lenore –
For the rare and radiant maiden whom the angels name Lenore –
Nameless here for evermore.
And the silken sad uncertain rustling of each purple curtain
Thrilled me – filled me with fantastic terrors never felt before;
So that now, to still the beating of my heart, I stood repeating,
“‘Tis some visitor entreating entrance at my chamber door –
Some late visitor entreating entrance at my chamber door; –
This it is, and nothing more.”
Presently my soul grew stronger; hesitating then no longer,
“Sir,” said I, “or Madam, truly your forgiveness I implore;
But the fact is I was napping, and so gently you came rapping,
And so faintly you came tapping, tapping at my chamber door,
That I scarce was sure I heard you”- here I opened wide the door; –
Darkness there, and nothing more.
Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there wondering, fearing,
Doubting, dreaming dreams no mortals ever dared to dream before;
But the silence was unbroken, and the stillness gave no token,
And the only word there spoken was the whispered word, “Lenore?”
This I whispered, and an echo murmured back the word, “Lenore!” –
Merely this, and nothing more.
Back into the chamber turning, all my soul within me burning,
Soon again I heard a tapping somewhat louder than before.
“Surely,” said I, “surely that is something at my window lattice:
Let me see, then, what thereat is, and this mystery explore –
Let my heart be still a moment and this mystery explore; –
‘Tis the wind and nothing more.”
Open here I flung the shutter, when, with many a flirt and flutter,
In there stepped a stately raven of the saintly days of yore;
Not the least obeisance made he; not a minute stopped or stayed he;
But, with mien of lord or lady, perched above my chamber door –
Perched upon a bust of Pallas just above my chamber door –
Perched, and sat, and nothing more.
Then this ebony bird beguiling my sad fancy into smiling,
By the grave and stern decorum of the countenance it wore.
“Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,” I said, “art sure no craven,
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the Nightly shore –
Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night’s Plutonian shore!”
Quoth the Raven, “Nevermore.”
Much I marvelled this ungainly fowl to hear discourse so plainly,
Though its answer little meaning- little relevancy bore;
For we cannot help agreeing that no living human being
Ever yet was blest with seeing bird above his chamber door –
Bird or beast upon the sculptured bust above his chamber door,
With such name as “Nevermore.”
But the raven, sitting lonely on the placid bust, spoke only
That one word, as if his soul in that one word he did outpour.
Nothing further then he uttered- not a feather then he fluttered –
Till I scarcely more than muttered, “other friends have flown before –
On the morrow he will leave me, as my hopes have flown before.”
Then the bird said, “Nevermore.”
Startled at the stillness broken by reply so aptly spoken,
“Doubtless,” said I, “what it utters is its only stock and store,
Caught from some unhappy master whom unmerciful Disaster
Followed fast and followed faster till his songs one burden bore –
Till the dirges of his Hope that melancholy burden bore
Of ‘Never – nevermore’.”
But the Raven still beguiling all my fancy into smiling,
Straight I wheeled a cushioned seat in front of bird, and bust and door;
Then upon the velvet sinking, I betook myself to linking
Fancy unto fancy, thinking what this ominous bird of yore –
What this grim, ungainly, ghastly, gaunt and ominous bird of yore
Meant in croaking “Nevermore.”
This I sat engaged in guessing, but no syllable expressing
To the fowl whose fiery eyes now burned into my bosom’s core;
This and more I sat divining, with my head at ease reclining
On the cushion’s velvet lining that the lamplight gloated o’er,
But whose velvet violet lining with the lamplight gloating o’er,
She shall press, ah, nevermore!
Then methought the air grew denser, perfumed from an unseen censer
Swung by Seraphim whose footfalls tinkled on the tufted floor.
“Wretch,” I cried, “thy God hath lent thee – by these angels he hath sent thee
Respite – respite and nepenthe, from thy memories of Lenore:
Quaff, oh quaff this kind nepenthe and forget this lost Lenore!”
Quoth the Raven, “Nevermore.”
“Prophet!” said I, “thing of evil! – prophet still, if bird or devil! –
Whether Tempter sent, or whether tempest tossed thee here ashore,
Desolate yet all undaunted, on this desert land enchanted –
On this home by horror haunted- tell me truly, I implore –
Is there – is there balm in Gilead? – tell me – tell me, I implore!”
Quoth the Raven, “Nevermore.”
“Prophet!” said I, “thing of evil – prophet still, if bird or devil!
By that Heaven that bends above us – by that God we both adore –
Tell this soul with sorrow laden if, within the distant Aidenn,
It shall clasp a sainted maiden whom the angels name Lenore –
Clasp a rare and radiant maiden whom the angels name Lenore.”
Quoth the Raven, “Nevermore.”
“Be that word our sign in parting, bird or fiend,” I shrieked, upstarting –
“Get thee back into the tempest and the Night’s Plutonian shore!
Leave no black plume as a token of that lie thy soul hath spoken!
Leave my loneliness unbroken!- quit the bust above my door!
Take thy beak from out my heart, and take thy form from off my door!”
Quoth the Raven, “Nevermore.”
And the Raven, never flitting, still is sitting, still is sitting
On the pallid bust of Pallas just above my chamber door;
And his eyes have all the seeming of a demon’s that is dreaming,
And the lamplight o’er him streaming throws his shadow on the floor;
And my soul from out that shadow
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I don’t consider you as “enemies.” I do consider you as “foes.”
Fortunately, you keep yourself busy posting comments on worldmagblog, which may keep you away from places where you may do more damage. If you try reall hard, you might be able to nominate Sarah Palin for President.
I am all for it. I have nothing against her, or her family. I think it is spendid to have children instead of aborting them. I think it is splended for a woman to be elected Governor of Alaska, and splendid for her to resign early, and splendid for her to make lots of money from writing a book, and splendid for her to distract you from perhaps electing someone more harmful.
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“I am skeptical of anyone who introduces himself to me as a “prophet.” I am even more skeptical of anyone who tells me his God.”
You should be. But there’s only 3 possibilities as Lewis describes. He is either a Liar, a Lunatic, or Lord.
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RN #35
Some have interpreted that to say that Abraham, being promised by God a nation, believed that God was going to raise him from the dead.
Some compare God providing a substitute sacrifice for Abraham, an unblimished lamb, to Jesus on the cross who was the perfect sacrifice for our sins.
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Isn’t it funny how life works sometimes. I came here this morning and read about Mumsee getting more children and posted to her, then got about my day. For some reason this morning Darling Daughter, who as far as I know has never heard this poem, tried to say part of it. Without really thinking I started saying it. ( yes, I WAS a strange child, I know a lot about Greek Mythology from a 1957 and 1928 edition of Encyclopiae Britannica). From there I was explaining the poem and the “history” of it and we went to “Annabelle Lee”. I come back here after she is safely at school and it seems The Raven is apropos of much of what goes on here. Comment, critique, or read into it what you will…
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Joe B. – the lack of context is indeed problematic, but how much can fit on one t-shirt? Plus, cherry-picking Bible verses to make them say things out of context is the evangelical equivalent of Scrabble.
Not sure that’s what’s happened here, though.
Random, Obama has been compared to Hitler, The Joker, Satan, the AntiChrist, and all kinds of disrespectful things. This is often done by the same people who called disdain for Bush “irrational hatred” and “unpatriotic”.
I see a pattern here.
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Could I get the Reader’s Digest version of that poem?
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I had to memorize Annabelle Lee in highschool…I hardly remember it.
I always liked the tale-tell heart one. Too bad Poe missed out on the Twilight Zone…
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MUMSEE, God bless you and all your “helping hands”. Thoughts and prayers.
I’m a little slow with the news from yesterday (and maybe the day before that and… ). What’s the word with KLASKO’s brother, MOMMY’s diabetes situation; NANA, wasn’t your daughter have health concerns?
NEWS2ME, the joke going around now about the prison and the “detainees” is that Illinois is the “new GITMO”. Lucky us.
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RN
Ravi Zacharias has lots of good information
http://www.rzim.org/USA/Resources/Listen/LetMyPeopleThink.aspx
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Today – Senate Homeland Security Cmte. hearing on Ft. Hood Shooting Investigation:
“Islamist terrorists who attacked us on 9/11 have opened up an unprecedented front within the U.S. from people living within the U.S. We know violent Islamist extremism is a threat here in the U.S. and we know the military is a target.”
“We will focus on what the federal government knew and what it did concerning Major Hasan and whether action should have been taken to prevent him from carrying out his attack, as well as how the attaack affects our understanding of and defenses against the threat posed by violent Islamist extremism and homegrown terrorism in this country on military bases and beyond.”
Committee Chairman Joe Lieberman, ID-Conn.,and Ranking Member Susan Collins, R-ME
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Perhaps you should all go over to Hillbuzz dot org and see what they are saying about Sarah Palin…
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#42
Two out of three aren’t bad.
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46 News to Me,
There’s an old Simpsons version of “The Raven” you might like. Look for it on YouTube.
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Thomas, I think the phrase “another take his office” indicates that the prayer is for his days in office to be few. Praying for Obama’s death would mean we would get Joe Biden and that wouldn’t help.
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Before anybody responds to anything KWatson has written back in comment #3, he needs to prove his allegations with links.
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KBells,
Thomas1 knows nobody is praying for Obama’s death using the Psalms. Just ignore him.
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I do not like Obama but the absolute worst thing that could happen would be for some wing nut to decide to assassinate him. Dear Lord, watch over and protect our President from death…
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DAVID – I second that! In the long run, though, KWATSON is irrelevant.
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As is Thomas!
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There is another way for his days to be few.
It begins with I and ends with MENT.
At least Biden wasn’t trained in “community” organizing.
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Facts? We don’t need facts! Full spead ahead!
Nana, may your days be few and may another take your office.
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I long for the day when governments in general and the House, Senate, POTUS and the entire gang of bureaucrats would adhere to Lincoln’s last words in the address: “Government of the PEOPLE, by the PEOPLE and for the PEOPLE…”
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Thanks, all. Night went much better than some. Three year old gave a scream a few times but did not really wake up and was easy to get back to sleep. Baby woke up and talked to himself for a time before going back to sleep. Woke up and got a change and a bottle and back to sleep. People are waking now. Thanks for praying.
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RANDOM
Did you check the link I referred you to at #49?
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It’s audio. My wife and I have the radio on right now. Maybe I will listen later. Will I hear anything I haven’t heard or read a thousand times before here?
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Below is a link to an article that first appeared in The Washington Times” weekly edition. But I can’t get the Times link to work. This is a copy of the article and the comment from “roundhead”. I like his commetnt too.
http://aipnews.com/talk/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=10206&posts=2
It has to do with Obama’s military posture and it’s implications from knowledgable sources.
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“It was fascinating to see Barack Obama warning us not to leap to conclusions about the killings at Fort Hood, Texas- after the way he leaped to conclusions over the arrest of Henry Louis Gates, when he knew less about the facts than we already knew about the massacre at Fort Hood.”
Thomas Sowell, in The Washington Times weekly.
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Truth is a most valuable thing in the world, so valuable that often it is covered by a bodyguard of lies.”
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“TRUTH is a most valuable thing in the world, so valuable that often it is covered by a bodyguard of lies.” Churchill
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Dishwashers – Any suggestions? Inexpensive?
Kenmore? G.E.? Bosch?
I know older ones work, but are there any out there on the market that are a good basic dishwasher?
Also, a dishwashing detergent. Why did they make a detergent that eats away at our dishes? My poor dishes have been etched so badly. Do the same people who ruin our dishes sell dishes as well?
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RANDOM #65
What you will hear from Ravi you will not hear from anyone else. I don’t believe there is anyone like him.
And he has the best real life stories.
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Does anyone else agree with what I heard yesterday on Glen Beck (not sure if he or a caller suggested this) that we should repeal the 17th Amendment, which changed the way Senators are elected from the state legislatures choosing to the general public? I like the idea, as it would force Senators to govern based on what the home state wants instead of party leadership. It might also eliminate having more Kennedy and Byrd types who make it a career.
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I know that nothing is better for them than to rejoice, and to do good in their lives, and also that every man should eat and drink and enjoy the good of all his labor—-it is the gift of God.
I know that whatever God does,
It shall be forever.
Nothing can be added to it,
And nothing taken from it.
God does it, that men should fear before Him.
That which is has already been,
And what is to be has already been;
And God requires an account of what is past.
Ecclesiastes 3:12-15 (NKJV)
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Mickey: On this day in 1863: President Abraham Lincoln delivered the Gettysburg Address.
Frank: In re. the Gettysburg Address, H.L. Mencken hit it clean out of the park [my bold]:
The ex-boyfriend who lied to me and cheated on me sent three emails over night to which I was not going to respond but then he called me. I haven’t been able to stop crying. I have worked for a year and half to get over him, move on with my life and really try to forget he ever existed…
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Mumsee, you know you’re a saint, right?
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How do you change an admendment when a dictator is controlling the gov’t? Good luck with that.
I’m still wondering about those districts around the country that don’t exist. The ones where there are people with JOBS from the stimulus plan. Could they use those districts to claim VOTES that don’t exist? Especially if the gov’t is the one counting the votes? Nah…they couldn’t get away with that…could they?
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KIM
prayers for you
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Kim, have your cry and move on. He did exist. He also lied and cheated. You’ve forgiven, now move on.
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Frank #74
How can someone argue with THAT logic?
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News2me: Kenmore. I got this one maybe 2-3 years ago when the original in this house screeched and moaned and ground to a halt one night. I checked Consumer Reports online and they’d recommended the Kenmore so that’s what I went with. It’s not one of the “quiet” models, but that’s not a big issue for me. I’ve been happy with it so far, although it doesn’t dry as thoroughly as I’d like.
I just use those Cascade gel packs, which have worked well as far as I can tell.
More prayers headed Mumsee’s way.
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Kim, listen to NJL. Do not get mixed up with this guy. He sounds like bad news.
NJL, #76. I said long ago that when I’m appointed Pope, I’m going to make Mumsee a saint. I think she says she, like most of us here, is already a saint. That shut me up.
Another quote from Thomas Sowell, op cit, #67
“Among the many infirmities of age is omniscience.”
That isn’t entierly true. I have lots of older friends who don’t know anything.
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CHAS
If Obama were actually American, he might just care about Americans.
He has closed nearly every record that ever had his name on it. What IS he trying to hide?
Just show the records so we can be wrong and move on.
Sometimes I wonder if he would be able to change any of his writings in college. No writings, no college transcripts, no passports, etc. ALL are locked up tight.
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So sorry Kim. That hurts. Praying for you today, too.
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As believers we’re all saints and sinners both — and simultaneously. No wonder navigating through life can be so crazy and confusing sometimes.
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DONNA
Thank you. I will be headed to Sears to see what they offer.
I used to use gel until the Kenmore repair man showed me where it was gooping up the dishwasher.
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DAVID #53
Thanks, but when it comes to the Simpsons, I’ll pass.
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“It’s also interesting Palin’s hitting Salt Lake City (Mitt Romney’s town), Minneapolis (Tim Pawlenty’s town), several stops in Florida (Charlie Crist’s turf), and Fayetteville, Arkansas (where Wal-Mart is based, but also a town in Mike Huckabee’s old turf).
Seems like she’s intentionally making a big splash in the states most associated with all the boring, stale, tired men the MSM is working night and day to make into the next GOP nominee. Very interesting.” Hillbuzz
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Kim,
I know a few people who know a few people who know a ninja that knows ways of disposing of unwanted trash. If you like I’ll have em take out your garbage.
On a lighter note, I’d recommend, never responding to emails or phone…even telling him to go away, only encourages him to another phone call.
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News2me: I agree with DonnaJ – Kenmore. I’ve had mine for about 5 years now, no problems at all. I also use Cascade, but the kind in the bottle [it's kind of a jell/cream combination].
I’ve learned recently that powder detergents contain a lot of salt, which leeches into the soil and affects ground water supplies. The report said that the salt makes the water unusable for irrigation, adding to the water problems of our neighbors in CA’s Central Valley, who have had much of the water needed to irrigate the crops shut off to protect some little creature who’s name I can never remember.
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I hate my Bosch dishwasher–it requires me to take it apart and clean IT all the time. I’ve never done that in 40+ years of using dishwashers. And having ME, of all people, take apart a dishwasher is a really poor idea.
I’ll get cheap Kenmore next time . . . But this one is VERY quiet.
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New2me: I have a Whirlpool, which was also recommended by Consumers Reports when I bought it. It is quite a few years old and has always worked well.
About etching: I buy Cascade (powder) and have found it works best with my water. I do not fill my compartments full, even though my water is a bit hard. You need to know the hardness level of your water. If you have harder water use more, if soft, use less. Too much does etch and also wastes money. That is why I never use capsules or packets.
Kim, praying also. He sounds like bad news.
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Frank, or whoever else knows the answer:
The Union soldiers in that battle actually fought against self-determination; it was the Confederates who fought for the right of their people to govern themselves.
Is there any truth to the charge that the Confederacy itself forbade its member states from dissolving their relationship to the Confederacy? That’s something I heard for the first time recently; I know little about this subject, and am just curious.
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Kim, or how about letting Drill take care of the ex boyfriend. A few choice e-mails from Drill and I’ll be he’d high-tail it out of your life FAST.
For dishwashers, check out Consumer Reports. Back when I bought they said Kenmore was best in the modest price range. But maybe there’s something else now — although, I will say that I also bought Consumer Report’s recommended microwave (also from Sears) and it had to be repaired within the first year and then gave out completely maybe 2 years after that. Worthless.
But so far, the dishwasher’s been good.
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Thanks KAYVEE, MICHELLE, & KI for the info
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I don’t know one way or another about the salt issue. I will say I have a drain field with five eighty foot long lines and it has a ton of very high grass on it. The old saying: “The grass grows best on the septic tank”, is certainly true. Salt doesn’t seem to bother that, but it may be very hardy.
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Michelle #91
Isn’t that like some newer American cars–beautiful color, quiet and comfortable ride, but there it sits on the side of the freeway broken down within 2 years sometimes? It’s nice to sit in a nice comfortable car as we wait for the tow truck.
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KIM
“…letting Drill take care of the ex boyfriend. A few choice e-mails from Drill and I’ll bet he’d high-tail it out of your life FAST.” Donna #94
Or maybe laugh to death?
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A co-worker tells me he once bought a Jaguar (older, “classic” model). It never would start up and was in the shop constantly.
The family would all pile into it to go somewhere, he said, but then he’d turn the key — grind, grind, grind, over and over a few times.
Family then would pour out of said Jaguar, pile into the old, beat-up Jeep Cherokee, and off they’d go.
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uh-oh
hoo will get the 100?
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News2Me, and laughing to death would still get the job accomplished, no?
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oops too late
I got it.
I thot shur I would get 99.
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OK, then it’s settled, Kim, go sic Drill on him.
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Seeeee! Or is that Weeeee?
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Where is Drill?
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RR #93,
I’m not completely sure of the answer to your question, but according to Wikipedia:
The Confederate Constitution did not specifically include a provision allowing states to secede; the Preamble spoke of each state “acting in its sovereign and independent character” but also of the formation of a “permanent federal government”. During the debates on drafting the Confederate Constitution, one proposal would have allowed states to secede from the Confederacy. The proposal was tabled with only the South Carolina delegates voting in favor of considering the motion.
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Never around when you need him?
Men.
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#74 – It’s ironic that defenders of the Confederacy would talk about the right of self-government, in light of the freedoms that the Confederacy denied slaves. What about their right of self-government?
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Deet – My brother is at home recovering, thanks for asking. He is better every day, but that is by inches. But hey, we’ll take it. Beats the alternative!
So far, he is determined to toe the line the doctors have drawn for him, but he still has a long recovery ahead of him. He says this has been a spiritual awakening for him, so let us pray that through this experience he draws nearer and nearer to God and Jesus.
Thanks for your thoughts and prayers.
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Drill isnt here because he’s already taking care of it…
He’s a registered assassin, despite his uncle’s complications with beards and guns 150 years ago.
News,
You can also go onto sites like Sears, Home Depot, etc and they should have customer reviews of products. Easy to sort price range usually as well.
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88- I hadn’t made the connection. Interesting. (Of course, I hadn’t heard where the book tour was going.)
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Furthermore, the self-government argument against the North is also flawed because it is the people of the United States who established the Union. (It was not a compact of states). The North was not denying the People the right of Self-government. The Confederacy was breaking up the Union without the consent of the People. Quoting from the Preamble of the Constitution:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility…
The Preamble specifically says “People”, rather than referring to “States” forming the Union. Also, the Constitution was not ratified by the States’ legislatures, but by constitutional conventions in each state. This was specifically done by the Founders to show that the Union was formed by the People rather than the States. Having been formed by the People, the Union can only be dissolved by the People, that is, through an act of Congress, the people’s representatives. No state or group of states can unilaterally ignore laws (nullification) or leave the Union (secession).
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Thorn
Been to Sears site and another site. Not getting the info I need.
But I’m trying. Very trying. After a half-hour of clicking on buttons that are supposed to take me to where I want to go, my ADD kicks in and I give up for a while. Then I go back later and try again. I’d smack the computer in frustration, but it never seems to help. Besides I’m still nursing the computer along until I can make a decision–go with Windows 7 and hope it works ok, and lose my XP software or go MAC and switch all of it over.
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The best questions I have seen so far about who Barack Hussein Obama really is have been:
1. Could you please show us what passport you traveled to Pakistan on in 1981. If you traveled to Pakistan in 1981 on an American passport it is highly unlikely you would have been permitted to even receive a Pakistani visa because Pakistan was a closed country at that time. You could have traveled on a British passport which with a father from Kenya would have been perfectly your right to hold a British passport, however if you held a British passport you would have held dual citizenship and the only way you could have held dual citizenship would have been if you were not born in the United States. If you traveled on your Indonesian passport which you could have done only if when your mother married Scutaro that he adopted you and you adopted his country thereby changing your name. However, you could not hold an American passport because Indonesian law until 1999 states that you cannot hold dual citizenship.
So, if President Obama were truly transparent, just show us which passport you traveled to Pakistan on in 1981 and end the debate. Then, if you traveled on an American passport we would know that you broke state department laws and would have faced felony charges thereby causing you to not be able to run for the presidency, proving that you are an not legally our president, meaning that all the changes you made to our laws would have to be rescinded.
This isn’t a matter of birth so I am not a birther. This is a matter of what passport young Barry held before he traveled to Pakistan.
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Just to clarify…he has a new cell phone number which is now saved in my phone so that if he calls again I can recognize it and not answer. I have not responded to any of the emails. I went out to lunch with a friend for her birthday so I got out of the house for a while and was around other people rather than sitting here sobbing. And for what it is worth, he did all of the apologizing and saying he was sorry. NOT me.
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“Beginning on line 7, p. 118, section 1303 under “Voluntary Choice of Coverage of Abortion Services” the Health and Human Services Secretary is given the authority to determine when abortion is allowed under the government-run health plan. Leader Reid’s plan also requires that at least one insurance plan offered in the Exchange covers abortions (line 13, p. 120).
What is even more alarming is that a monthly abortion premium will be charged of all enrollees in the government-run health plan. It’s right there beginning on line 11, page 122, section 1303, under “Actuarial Value of Optional Service Coverage.” The premium will be paid into a U.S. Treasury account – and these federal funds will be used to pay for the abortion services.
Section 1303(a)(2)(C) describes the process in which the Health Benefits Commissioner is to assess the monthly premiums that will be used to pay for elective abortions under the government-run health plan and for those who are given an affordability credit to purchase insurance coverage that includes abortion through the Exchange. The Commissioner must charge at a minimum $1 per enrollee per month.”
Yep folks, the Dems have inserted this right into the health care fiasco bill – and it does mean there will be a monthly abortion fee.
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What are you running on XP News?
I’ve got Windows 7 64 bit, and the only thing that I noticed that hasnt worked is that Flash doesnt have a 64 bit app for the explorer…
Everything else peachy keen so far.
I believe they also make a version of Windows 7 that allows you to run a virtual XP, or it comes with it anyway.
You would just need to make sure you back up what you want to keep because it requires a fresh install, and make sure your hardware is compatible.
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Kim, sorry to hear that.
It’s great that he apologized, but if his contact with you upsets you that much, you may want to consider an order of protection.
They’re not that effective on a practical level, but they do let him know that you’re serious about not wanting to talk to him.
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“And for what it is worth, he did all of the apologizing and saying he was sorry. NOT me.”
Glad he apologized. Now that its done, dont answer the phone anymore. If he calls from a new number, just hang up, without a word.
He shoulda called you in the first place, not sent emails.
But my point is, is that if you dont want him anywhere in, around, etc of your life…dont communicate at all. You can even probably block his email, at least the ones you know.
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ItsAboutFreedom (114): This is a hoax.
But the Pakistan theory is just as false. The truth, easily proven, is that American citizens traveled freely to Pakistan in 1981.
…. Philadelphia lawyer Phil Berg even told the U.S. Supreme Court last year, before it refused to hear his case challenging Obama’s qualification to be president, that Pakistan “was on the State Department’s travel ban list for U.S. Citizens.”
But that claim is quite false. There was no such ban.
More here.
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Conan is correct. I think it was more of a cautionary statement. This hoax was exposed during the campaign.
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“With increasing anti-government unrest, the army grew restive. On July 5, 1977, the military removed Bhutto from power and arrested him, declared martial law, and suspended portions of the 1973 Constitution. Chief of Army Staff Gen. Muhammad Zia ul-Haq became Chief Martial Law Administrator and promised to hold new elections within 3 months.
Zia released Bhutto and asserted that he could contest new elections scheduled for October 1977. However, after it became clear that Bhutto’s popularity had survived his government, Zia postponed the elections and began criminal investigations of the senior PPP leadership. Subsequently, Bhutto was convicted and sentenced to death for alleged conspiracy to murder a political opponent. Despite international appeals on his behalf, Bhutto was hanged on April 6, 1979.
Zia assumed the presidency and called for elections in November. However, fearful of a PPP victory, Zia banned political activity in October 1979 and postponed national elections.
In 1980, most center and left parties, led by the PPP, formed the Movement for the Restoration of Democracy (MRD). The MRD demanded Zia’s resignation, an end to martial law, new elections, and restoration of the Constitution as it existed before Zia’s takeover. In early December 1984, President Zia proclaimed a national referendum for December 19 on his “Islamization” program. He implicitly linked approval of “Islamization” with a mandate for his continued presidency. Zia’s opponents, led by the MRD, boycotted the elections. When the government claimed a 63% turnout, with more than 90% approving the referendum, many observers questioned these figures.” http://www.novelguide.com/a/discover/coow_2006_0002_0/coow_2006_0002_0_00156.html
With the country under martial law from 1977 – 1985 you can take FactCheck.org and DailyKos as “official” fact check arguments all you want but the fact is that the State Department would have had restrictions on travel to countries that were under martial law during this time. There is no state department archive computerized to prove this and even if there were the information would probably be suppressed just as all information that may point to the legitimacy of Barack Obama has been suppressed since he won the Democratic nomination.
To me it is still pretty simple. If you are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep something from going to court, there must be something to hide. If you were an honest person and you had nothing to hide wouldn’t you want your admissions records to Occidental College and all other information made public?
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IAF – it was a Travel Advisory.
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123 cont’d
http://dosfan.lib.uic.edu/ERC/travel/cis/southasia/TA_Pakistan1981.pdf
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Kim, Thorn gives good advice — no communication at all. Delete emails, don’t answer phone and if he figures a way around it, hang up immediately. Any response will be encouragement; he’ll think he can wear you down.
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Well, I am sorry about being AWOL; I have my beard tangled in the lever action of my Winchester 30-30. It took a long time to successfully eat breakfast; kind of messy, too.
As far as Kim’s ex-boyfriend, I would recommend that he be forced to attend a group therapy session with Random Name and Eeyore. That is if we can pry Eeyore away from the Hundred Acre Woods.
Or do you think that inflicting BOTH Random Name AND Eeyore on this guy would be overkill, and wastefully redundant, and maybe even a violation of the Geneva Convention and the United Nations Human Rights Protocol?
After all, we want to just scare and alarm him, not cause his head to implode.
Now. Seriously, Kim. Please be careful. I think you have received some good advice from folks on this thread.
Some dogs are serial biters.
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drill can she use your Winchester 30-30.
My nices was living with me and she had a boy that would just not leave her alone. He came to my house, I open the door with my gun in one had my Bible in the other and my big black dog by my side. I asked him which one do you want. He said what? I told him, she told you to leave her alone. you did not listen now it is my turn. Which one do you want me to use to get the message across. He look at the gun, the bible and my dog. He turn around an started to walk out and looked back and told me I will see her in school. I open the door let the dog out. He ran to the gate and never spoke to her agian.
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In regard to #93 from RR:
——————————————————
Winston County gained notoriety during the Civil War because the residents of the county did not want to join the Confederacy. The county had no large plantations and virtually no enslaved labor. During the war, the county suffered a number of raids by Confederate soldiers, who considered the residents of Winston to be traitors to the Southern cause. Leaders of Winston County met at Looney’s Tavern in Double Springs, where they attempted to declare the independent Republic of Winston and made plans to secede from the Confederacy. Though the secession never occurred, Winston County continues to be referred to as the “Free State of Winston.”
http://www.encyclopediaofalabama.org/face/Article.jsp?id=h-1296
Somebody (who may or may not know what he is talking about) told me yesterday that the county also wrote to Lincoln, asking him not to send troops into the county during the war and that Union troops never entered the county.
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He did technically apologize Drill, so maybe only subjected to Eeyore…
Oh I found this shirt at shirt.woot it’s basically Poe’s the Raven in the shape of a bird…kinda random coincidence.
http://shirt.woot.com/friends.aspx?k=5230
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I must say that I wish I had known Pastor Roy and Drill 35 years ago.
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Mumsee,
Just heard about your 3 new ones. I’m thinking of you and praying for all of you.
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Frank in Spokane — in case you are around. I think you were the one who cited to Andrew Napolitano’s constitutional view that the 9/11 trial should be held in NYC. The opposing view can be found at the Volokh about a third of the way down the page.
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NJLawyer 11.19.09 AT 3:52 PM
I must say that I wish I had known Pastor Roy and Drill 35 years ago
—-
My Nieces blamed me for her not having to many dates in her high school years. I was to hard on the guys. I had one boy call the house, I told him he would not have any problem with me unless he lies to me. Well my nieces was not in so he gave me his number for her to call him back. He phone number was disconnected. He called back two weeks later I answer the phone an asked him why he lied to me. He did not answer me, so I told him never to call back and hung up. He try calling back twice and I picked up told him no. He had a friend called back and thank God for caller Id, I picked up and told him no.
My Nieces asked me why I was doing that. I told her my job as the guarding is to protect you and your body. She lived with us for over 2 years.
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http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2009/11/ap-army-to-keep-media-from-covering-palin-at-fort-bragg/1
So, tell me again. Why does the dinosaur media try to make Palin out to be so irrelevant?
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IAF: With the country under martial law from 1977 – 1985 you can take FactCheck.org and DailyKos as “official” fact check arguments all you want but the fact is that the State Department would have had restrictions on travel to countries that were under martial law during this time.
How do you figure? The State Department rarely forbids Americans to travel anywhere, although it often issues warnings strongly urging them not to in areas where it’s not safe. I’m not sure the State Department even CAN forbid travel outright, except maybe in cases like Cuba where we have a formal embargo in place.
You can believe your wild conspiracy theories if you like, but you really do not sound very well informed.
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ConanTheLibrarian 11.19.09 AT 4:28 PM
IAF: With the country under martial law from 1977 – 1985 you can take FactCheck.org and DailyKos as “official” fact check arguments all you want but the fact is that the State Department would have had restrictions on travel to countries that were under martial law during this time.
How do you figure? The State Department rarely forbids Americans to travel anywhere, although it often issues warnings strongly urging them not to in areas where it’s not safe. I’m not sure the State Department even CAN forbid travel outright, except maybe in cases like Cuba where we have a formal embargo in place.
You can believe your wild conspiracy theories if you like, but you really do not sound very well informed.
—
Why will Obama not relased the paper work that could clear up the issues?
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Deet,
Thanks for asking about me. I’m just getting into the whole diabetes thing. Thanks to TRS for some great advice – I’ve already gotten “Diabetes for Dummies” and an appointment (in January!) with an endocrinologist. It is taking a bit of getting used to.
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Pastor Roy, she was a lucky girl! I hope she appreciated you!
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Mommy, keep us informed as to how hard it is. Some of us know that’s the next road we’re going on…..
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NJLawyer 11.19.09 AT 5:03 PM
Pastor Roy, she was a lucky girl! I hope she appreciated you!
—-
The sad ending to the story with my wife, me and her. Is the fact her mother (my wife sister) who gave up custody could not stay out of the issues. My wife and me made the hardest decision in our life and that was her senior years, to send her back to mom. After she decided that she would no longer listen to us. It has taken over 4 years before we can sit down an talk. Her boyfriend who is the father of her two boys. Work with me and my wife to be able for to talk to us. Our relationship is started to get better. But it is a very slow process.
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Every other president up until the wonderful, irreplaceable Barack Hussein Obama has submitted their past records for viewing. Obama does not. Does this make me a conspiracy theorist? No it makes me curious as to why a man who is supposedly the most transparent president ever won’t reveal his college records, won’t reveal his past work history, has everything locked up tight and did so before the Democratic primaries began in full swing. He locked up his records legally in 2007. Why? That is all I want to know. Is there something in there that the American tax payer should not know? Does he have a background he is embarrassed about?
Well of course other than Bill Ayers, Jeremiah Wright and all his other radical friends.
You can make fun of me all you want Conan, because I am getting to the point where I just don’ care. Having lived in the former Soviet Union for 7 years I can tell you that of all the politicians I have experienced since I began following politics in the 1970’s this guy scares me the most. He is the one we know least about, he is the one that has huge followers who know nothing about him. In that realm he reminds me very much of Lenin. Lenin was also very popular and he had the same idealogy as this president. That didn’t work out so well for the Russian people. The Great Equalizer, as Lenin was known in the beginning among his followers, simply took from the rich and gave to his cronies and just kept on giving.
You can support that if you want but I will not. That is part of living free. I do not have to submit to this man’s blatant takeover of everything American to try and create a socialistic utopia where he and his band of thugs get everything and nobody ever says anything about him.
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The Obama list of records NOT RELEASED or NONE –
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I have prayed for all the prayer requests mentioned between yesterday’s & today’s WVs. Just so ya know.
Donna – I don’t use the “dry” cycle on my dishwasher. When it finishes washing, I open the door & let the dishes air-dry, usually overnight. I also wipe off the water that stays in the upside-down bottoms of cups & glasses & suchlike.
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Victoria 11.19.09 AT 5:22 PM
The Obama list of records NOT RELEASED or NONE –
Original, vault copy birth certificate — Not released
Obama/Dunham marriage license — Not released
Kindergarten records — Records lost
Soetoro/Dunham marriage license — Not released
Soetoro adoption records — Not released
Punahou School records — Not released
Occidental College records — Not released
Passport — Not released
Columbia College records — Not released
Columbia thesis — “Soviet Nuclear Disarmament” — Not released
Harvard College records — Not released
Harvard Law Review articles — None
Illinois Bar Records — Not released.
Baptism certificate — None
Medical records — Not released
Illinois State Senate records — None
Illinois State Senate schedule — Lost
Law practice client list — Not released
University of Chicago scholarly articles — None
—
wow and the state run media failed to report on these issues?
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The above post should give anyone a CLUE as to why many of us DO NOT TRUST Obama –
Every President has released their academic records, medical, etc., etc, but not this guy – WHAT IS HE HIDING, are his academic records SO BAD …… that his telepromter would at last have a definiton that the entire nation could understand? -
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You guys actually think there’s something sinister in the fact that he hasn’t published his elementary school transcripts?
The fact is that he has no legal obligation to release any of those things. Even as president. And since everything he does release just provokes another round of accusations that they’re forgeries or not authentic, I really don’t blame him for not fueling the fire — if it is actually true that he hasn’t released those things, and I doubt that it is.
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What on Earth does his Baptism Certificate have to do with anything?
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Pastor Roy,
Obama could release these records toute de suite, but he hasn’t –
The flap over Michelle’s ‘thesis’ grew to a high crescendo, …. her thesis was released – I read it, … it was nothing to be proud of, coming from a Princeton graduate, I’m sure that her husband was not anxious that his academic records, or any other recoreds be released IF he could stop it.
Let’s be honest, if Obama were proud of his academic records we would already have been able to view them.
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If you don’t know, there is little I can do to help.
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ConanTheLibrarian 11.19.09 AT 5:32 PM
You guys actually think there’s something sinister in the fact that he hasn’t published his elementary school transcripts
—
Original, vault copy birth certificate
Occidental College records
Columbia College records
Columbia thesis
Harvard College records
Harvard Law Review articles
Illinois Bar Records
.
Medical records
Illinois State Senate records
Illinois State Senate schedule
Law practice client list
University of Chicago scholarly articles
These should cause us concerns.since he has not released them.
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ConanTheLibrarian 11.19.09 AT 5:34 PM
What on Earth does his Baptism Certificate have to do with anything
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Some believe he is a muslim.
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#3: When the other news networks present a better option.
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Today would have been my parents’ 49th wedding anniversary. Dad died almost 5 years ago. Mom sounded quite sad on the phone today.
A friend of hers invited her over to watch Marley & Me this afternoon, which will give her a good cry. Hopefully, the good cry will be good for her.
My prayer for her this morning was that in the midst of her grief, God would “infuse” her with an overwhelming gratitude to Him for the years she did have with Dad.
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Ok what happens if it is proven Obama is not qualified to be President?
Do we dare remove him from office and face the ugly wrath of racially riot’s?
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#154: I particularly liked that one. “Vote for Obama or there’ll be race riots!!!”
Way to convince me that you’re worthy of respect, Dem. Party.
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Well thank you to all the big brothers and big sisters I have on the blog. I am almost recovered so I now know I am able to bounce back better than before. He really took a lot out of me when I caught him cheating. I told him today that I had walked away from him twice with my dignity and a full head of steam, why did he have to draw me back in to end it like he did. He had convinced me all was better and that we were going to be able to work everything out and then boom, no calls, and she had moved in.
Even after she moved in he continued to try to contact me. I sent him an email in October of 2008 telling him not to contact me. He didn’t until October of this year when the emails started. I ignored them. Then today the phone call. I will be OK
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I really wish I would be able to go to my Celebrate Recovery meeting tomorrow night, but Baby Girl has things she wants to do and this is our weekend.
Now, if someone could just find out if the guys over at Hillbuzz.org are for real, I would find myself a cheap ticket to Chicago and go hang out with them for a few days.
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tjs catlover 11.19.09 AT 5:50 PM
#154: I particularly liked that one. “Vote for Obama or there’ll be race riots!!!”
Way to convince me that you’re worthy of respect, Dem. Party.
—–
People talk about how he should be removed, but do people think about what will happen to our nation if we do remove him.
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Roy, You guys have convinced me that something is wrong. I haven’t paid much attention to it till now for the following reason:
In answer to your question; It doesn’t matter, he is president and will remain president until the next election, or longer.
I think our country is in more trouble than any of us realize.
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Random is always reminding us about the frog in the pot of water that doesn’t realize how much trouble he is in until the water is boiling. I think that is what we are all like. The water has been getting warmer and warmer and we have been basking in the warmth. Now we really are in hot water.
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Chas 11.19.09 AT 5:59 PM
Roy, You guys have convinced me that something is wrong. I haven’t paid much attention to it till now for the following reason:
In answer to your question; It doesn’t matter, he is president and will remain president until the next election, or longer.
I think our country is in more trouble than any of us realize.
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Chas, take a look at the Czar’s who report only to him and congress has no control over. We have one now, tell people who took the bail out how much they can pay people. An now Obama wants to bail out small companies with the same money if they can tell the larger companies how much they can pay someone, what will stop them from telling the smaller compaies how much they can pay someone.
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Somewhat random:
Are there any other conspiracy theorists on here? (besides me, that is)
I’m not about to make any outrageous-sounding claims, but I highly recommend that everyone watch the documentaries, Food, Inc., and Bad Seed.
When deaths and serious sicknessess result needlessly (because people are only concerned about money) and nothing is being done to stop them, by correcting corporate practices, something is seriously wrong.
There are some things that the public doesn’t “have a right to know,” primarily in certain military matters, as deaths can result. But when your health and lives are at stake, don’t you think we should know what’s really happening here?
I believe this whole thing with the food industry is quite one of the biggest (government) cover-ups I’ve heard of, but the facts are out there.
So, is this just alarmism or has the public really been deceived all this time, and are we all quite possibly in danger if we don’t do something?
Just a thought:
I think that perhaps the majority of the world’s problems stem from greed in one sort or another. Greed for money, power, fame, etc. Any thoughts?
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Conan, how come you are focusing only on the records that you find ridiculous? Don’t you think there has to be some reason that Obama has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep those records sealed? Doesn’t that at least make you curious?
Original, vault copy birth certificate — Not released
Obama/Dunham marriage license — Not released
Kindergarten records — Records lost
Soetoro/Dunham marriage license — Not released
Soetoro adoption records — Not released
Punahou School records — Not released
Occidental College records — Not released
Passport — Not released
Columbia College records — Not released
Columbia thesis — “Soviet Nuclear Disarmament” — Not released
Harvard College records — Not released
Harvard Law Review articles — None
Illinois Bar Records — Not released.
Baptism certificate — None
Medical records — Not released
Illinois State Senate records — None
Illinois State Senate schedule — Lost
Law practice client list — Not released
University of Chicago scholarly articles — None
The kindergarten records matter because Obama wrote in his first book about kindergarten in Hawaii before he was taken out of school when his mother moved to Indonesia. There should be a record of that.
His baptism records don’t matter….there I agree with you on one.
All Obama has to do is release these documents and it puts everything to rest. Keep throwing money at it and it does mean something.
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You are correct Chas…..he is our president for the next 3 years and there is nothing we can do about that. Clinton proved that quite well.
However, like Pastor Roy, perhaps if there is a chink put in his gold plated media armor we can start getting some transparency and accountability about who he has surrounded himself with as advisors/czars. We, the people, deserve to know who these people are, they need to go through the same vetting process that every advisor needs to go through.
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The media have too much invested in him. He’s too big to fail.
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#166: Hmm… maybe Obama’s next stimulus package will bail himself out?
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I meant #165.
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I’ve been waiting for a thread on Khalid Sheikh Mohammed’s trial. What’s up WMB? Will American civil rights become meaningless if they are extended to everyone in the world? I would like to hear our lawyers here like NJL explain what this means for American law.
Senator Lindsey Graham asked Attorney General Eric Holder some very hard questions here, that had Holder twisting in his seat.
Holder admitted that:
a) There has ever been a trial of an enemy combatant taking place in a US civil court.
b) If KSM were acquitted that Holder would not release him but hold him as an enemy combatant. So the trial is just for show to put America on trial.
c) Will KSM have all of the rights of an American citizen, such as the 5th amendment. Holder twisted and turned.
d) Should KSM have been Mirandized? Holder doesn’t really know.
Our Attorney General is an empty suit. He had no answers to any of the questions in Graham’s questioning. The man who called America a nation of cowards had not a single answer to a single question Graham asked him.
Holder is a despicable politically motivated amateur.
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XION, that is an enemy combatant captured on the battle field. And to top it off, Holder couldn’t say whether or not he would try bin Laden in a civil or military court and if HE should be read his rights! Graham ruled in this one.
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O’Rilley’s interviewing Sarah.
I said a couple of days ago that I never noticed a woman’s hair, then mentioned an exception.
Another exception. I don’t understand how a woman can wear her hair over the eyes. It bothers me if a stray hair gets in my view.
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Pastor Roy, when your niece is older and wiser, she’ll understand and kick herself. I look back on certain instances and it’s a mixed bag — sometimes I was blessed with a someone who looked out for me and other times I was left on my own. Thankfully, God was always there. Don’t give up on her.
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There are some things that Obama shouldn’t really have to release. Both Hillary and Obama didn’t want their “scholarly” articles released, and that’s a little annoying. I don’t care about his grades to tell you the truth. Moreover, he passed the bar, it’s not an easy test. His birth certificate is a public record. His Illinois senate records and schedule — those are different. People have a right to know he was on the job.
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Good points Nana #169.
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Xion, I said the other day that I think KSM should be subject to a military tribunal. I think these bombings were acts of war (KSM does, too, by the way), not a “mere” crime, and he should be tried under the military system. He was caught by the military and should stay under their control. Remember, however, that the first bombers of the Towers were tried in federal court in NYC. It has been done, it can be done, but they were caught here in the US by law enforcement, which is very different than the conditions of a battlefield. The people who caught him were not trained law enforcment officers. To me that he’s an enemy combatant makes all the difference. The fact that Holder can’t answer the questions you raised (c and d of your post) scares me, quite frankly. I am worried that if the wrong judge gets the case this could turn into a circus. We can all imagine the “tricks” in KSM’s lawyers’ toolkit. They’re trained to fight, and they will. But they won’t be trained in military law, the law of war,(and neither is the judge). Their egos will be served here, not the good of the country.
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Thanks NJL. But what I am really after is your opinion on whether this will fundamentally change the meaning of American law, e.g. globalize it, since Holder says civil liberties won’t apply and that a not-guilty verdict will be ignored.
So if the outcome is predetermined, what is the purpose of the trial other than to poke Bush in the eye? Lindsey Graham points out that no trial like this has ever occurred in America. So what does it all mean for American law?
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I would like to know about his grades, how was he accepted into Harvard – what did he do that was so significant to be put in the position of “Head of Harvard’s Law Review” -
NJL, I have known a few people who have passed the bar that aren’t too bright – there must be hundreds more.
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IAF: Well, I don’t know that he hasn’t released those things, or at least the ones that matter. This looks like the kind of list that circulates in e-mail and gullible people believe it because it feeds what they prefer to believe, but that falls apart under examination. (I have not analyzed this one, but I would unsurprised if it turned out that most of it was bogus.)
I DO know that he released the official certified state copy of his birth certificate long ago, and it has since been verified and confirmed by state officials that it is authentic and valid, and still the birthers are insisting it’s fraudulent. Now you want the “vault copy.” But if he released that, you would probably insist it was forged.
I know that his Honolulu birth is further confirmed by birth announcements published at the time of his birth in two Honolulu newspapers, and the birthers dismiss that as well.
It appears that no amount of documentation is going to make this silly conspiracy theory go away so, really, why should Obama feed it?
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NJL (132): … Andrew Napolitano’s constitutional view that the 9/11 trial should be held in NYC. The opposing view can be found at the Volokh about a third of the way down the page.
Frank: Do you mean the 11/18 piece “Why Has Holder Decided to Try Khalid Sheikh Mohammed in a Civilian Court?” by Eric Posner? (It appears to be the only piece on the page about the terror trial.)
If that’s the piece you meant, I don’t follow how it is an “opposing view.” Posner doesn’t appear to object to the NYC trial in any way. Could you elaborate on your comment?
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PS: I couldn’t find if/where I remarked about Napolitano. (I recently saw a video of him crossing swords with Billo Riley on the matter … maybe I linked to that video?)
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Frank, I could be wrong where I heard/read/saw it, but I know Napolitano is in favor of the trial in NYC. I thought you brought it to my attention. I also hought that Eric’s piece was a little different than Napolitano’s, and I suppose I shouldn’t have used the word “opposing” — I was wrong there. I have no defense for myself.
Victoria, I’ll grant you there’s a difference in people who pass the bar, and maybe it’s just a “member of the club” thing, but I know you don’t get OUT of law school without doing a lot of hard work. The bar exam is a minimum, but it’s a high bar, and he had to take the exam anonymously by number. No one helped him with that. I don’t think BHO’s problem is with his grades, it’s with his view of how things work, it’s with his morals. He seems to think that it’s okay to steal from the rich and not so rich and give to the poor, totally disregarding the work that people do to become rich and not so rich. BHO’s problem is that he fails to comprehend that the Constitution doesn’t guarantee equality in dollars or square footage. It levels the playing field so that there can be equal opportunity. He has a view of government that was not envisioned by the Founders: “The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”
–Adams wrote this on June 28, 1813, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson. I firmly believe that Obama fits in the camp who that will not admit this, the camp that wants to disavow the Christian underpinnings of the Constitution and insert relativism and socialism, even racism, instead. They want you to change the nature of the country.
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Just to qualify: Andy Napolitano is brilliant, and he’s probably right, but I respectfully disagree.
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NJL, I have serious doubts as to whether or not 0bama fails to understand the Constitution. I think he understands well enough to twist and pervert it into requiring equal results, as you pointed out. He could very well be using it for his own version of “reparations.”
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