No compromise
It didn’t take long after yesterday’s public announcement of the Manhattan Declaration for the criticism and questions to start rolling in.
Doesn’t it compromise you as part of the news media to take a position on some of the very issues you are called on to cover?
Of course. That has always been a challenge for the media. But for generations it’s been taken for granted that it was appropriate for newspapers to lead the way in encouraging citizen support for providing food for the hungry, shelter for the homeless, etc. The issues to which the Manhattan Declaration speaks are similarly so basic, so fundamental, and so historically agreed upon that only a pedantic and overly purist nitpicker would pursue such an objection.
Those of us who represent WORLD magazine are called on frequently to sign our names to a variety of causes. Almost all of the time, we say no. There is danger in our getting so closely identified with ideological campaigns that our ability to retain our credibility is jeopardized. Besides, we don’t have the time or opportunity at every such occasion to check in with our board of directors. So even in this case, editor in chief Marvin Olasky and I aren’t formally representing our organization. On the other hand, some issues are so obvious and so foundational to a biblical sense of human culture that we simply must identify unambiguously with them.
Doesn’t it compromise you to stand shoulder to shoulder with people with whom you have serious theological disagreement?
Not unless we pretend that our disagreements no longer exist. The Manhattan Declaration explicitly acknowledges that such disagreements continue. We even disagree to some extent on how we’ve reached our conclusions on these issues. Some of us have come to this point primarily because of the teaching of the Bible; others rely more heavily on what they call “natural law” or the “light of nature.” So long as we don’t cover up those important distinctions, it is altogether right for us to lock arms and identify the sense in which we have found we do so passionately and urgently agree.
Doesn’t it compromise you to appear on the same platform with some who are outspoken members of the political right and others who are identified with the political left?
To the contrary, the very presence of such people may persuade some onlookers that we do not ultimately mean this as a political statement. The statement includes profound political ramifications, to be sure. But the Manhattan Declaration is not first and foremost a call to join a particular political movement. Readers will have to make those decisions on their own after thinking through the affirmations of the Declaration itself.

















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back to top33 Comments to “No compromise”
Is this supposed to be controversial? What if everyone just yawns?
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No one can ever claim that World isn’t honest about its worldview. Beats the MSM’s pretense any time.
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Thank you for doing this good thing. It reassures me to know that just in case there is a human slant to the news in World Magazine that it will be in line with my worldview. That is news worth listening to and paying for.
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But really, you know you didn’t need all the huffing and puffing about theology or of history — both of which the signatories actually disagree with each other on. You could have just stated your policy positions. But window dressing will be what it is.
The concern I have, given your own admitted reservations as to hermeneutics, is that you are engaging in a form of civil religion, albeit of a conservative nature. what matters in this context is your mutual antipathy, not your mutual commitment. What happens to your witness to Christ? The Good News of our Savior goes missing. You speak as “Christians” but not as witnesses, and certainly not as those who would wish that all be saved. I think this a mistake.
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Harris,
My husband and I are looking at this paper very closely – you’ve made a good point. Thanks.
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Random of course as usual nails it: World Mag is certainly does not make any pretense of being an unbiased media.
Of course NJLawyer also nails it: World Mag is rapidly losing any pretense that it is an objective news sources rather than effectively a propaganda platform for the social conservative right.
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Inside the cover of World Magazine it reads:
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When in the Army, on the battle field, facing an enemy so ferocious and mean who’s whole intent is to kill you. I ask not what my brother in arms wearing the same uniform, deeply believes. I just depend on him knowing the identity of our common enemy and we continue to fight together against this skillful evil force we face.
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Genesis4sever post 8,
looking at the behavior of the conservatvie right these days, you do describe nicely the environments the progressives find themselves in.
And indeed increasihngly the democratic institutions of the U.S. do appear to be under severe attack by the strong conservative right.
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Musing #9:
Wonderful example of the twisting we so frequently see from the left or did you just confuse defense and offense?
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Toobizy post 10,
twisting? I merely showed that Genesis4Seven’s argument plays both ways.
Defense and offense?
Tell me how the effort on health care reform is going?
Sounds like the health care reform offense is working quite well.
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Musing #11:
I can’t be a true judge of how health care reform is going, ah, you know, it is above my pay grade. Anyway, as they say in some non-politically-correct circles, it ain’t over until the fat lady sings and at this point I haven’t even heard her practicing. Who knows, she may get laryngitis and never sing and then we would never know what we were missing. Then your cute smiley faces would probably have a frown.
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toobizy post 12,
you are correct: the fat lady has not sung.
But do consider the defensive efforts of the opposition to health care reform since perhaps early summer, and then comment on its effectiveness?
I suggest that health care reform of some sort is now a given, and the only remaining question is what will be in it.
And I can say that the copnsaervative Republicans are no longer relevant to this discussion. By opting out, the conservative Republicans have ensured that only Democrats will be involved in the discussion. In short, the conservatvie Republicans are now irrelevant.
But Snowe or Collins …
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Musings #13:
The defensive efforts of the opposition to health care reform have been on target and gaining momentum. Why else would these Saturday sessions be necessary except to try and have the time advantage? Time is on the side of the Republicans. Although it does take time to wade through all those pages(why else to have so many pages but to delay the processing),soon the public will know who will be hit with what. Scrooge is coming for Christmas with news of the Dems reform package. Most conservatives are not against some type of health care reform, just not this particular one-sided version that includes taxpayer funded abortion and other obnoxious provisions. One of the senators from Georgia has a quite reasonable proposal but in your viewpoint he is irrelevant. I differ from your opinion and I think the recent elections are an indication that conservative Republicans are not irrelevant. Dream on….t’was the night before Christmas and all through the house was the dismal news of the Dems reforms and how they left the price tags on all the packages. It is just too costly if there were no other problem with it.
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toobizy post 14,
you mean the attempt to stop the cloture vote by conservatives was successful? Perhaps I misread the lead in to the next discussion thread.
As to the realities of the bill: as we have seen the opposition has continually resorted to serious misstatements regarding the bill (c.f. death panels, AARP does not support, $500B reduction in medicare benefits) and even with these scare tactics, they have only slightly nudged the support.
I suggest that time is not on the Republicans side in this issue.
And even with passage by Christmas, none of the aspects of this bill will have come into force: certainly there will be no Scrooge this Christmas, if indeed there is a scrooge on this issue for any Christmas.
Your too costly statements seem to be unsupported based on the CBO data. Can you reference where the CBO is apparently in error?
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Musing, #15:
I do not have time available to research the numbers but I know how things always turn out to be more costly than the initial estimates. There are always factors that have failed to be taken into consideration. Also, there is the cost of all the human lives that will be aborted if this reform passed as is. I know some people do not consider the life of a yet to be born child to be of value, and surely there can be no dollar value assigned to something that is priceless. Does CBO have some way of accounting for the cost of aborted babies? I do not think they are that refined in their accounting methods to date. Anyway, our discussion has been interesting but now I am on to Thanksgiving preparations. One thing I am thankful for this year is World magazine. It is another thing in life that is priceless.
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toobizy post 16,
if you are correct in your generalizations, then it would seem that you should be able to point to where in the CBO report they have underestimated. And these places would be? Thought not.
Alternatively you appear to be arguing that in your subjective opinion it will run over, to which I reply in my subjective opinion they have underestimated the savings, and we are at a stalemate and in a rather silly discussion.
If we can not support our opinions with some reasonable data, then our opinbions wo0uld seem to be at best smoke in the air.
If your concern is abortion, then I suggest you are focusing on an issue which is not directly germane to the health reform debate and further suggests yet again that your opposition is ideological, not data driven. Indeed I suggest that even if the bill included draconian abortion controls, it seems, based on the posts so far, unlikley that you would support it and your arguments would appear to be hypocritical as posed.
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Thank you for taking a powerful stand for truth. This will be divisive in the evangelical community because so many in this community have already become comfortable with Biblical compromise. Too many have exchanged the truth for a lie and are willing to become slaves of the government in exchange for leeks, garlic, and melons. I fully expect those holding fast to the commitments made in the Manhattan Delcaration will become targets of not just post-modern, emergent church evangelicals, but also of the US government and IRS. But we must stand with our Founding Fathers who were willing to pledge their lives, fortunes and sacred honor for freedom and truth. May we not betray them or the Christians worldwide who sacrifice everything to follow Christ in fidelity to the true Word of God.
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Bravo and amen, ElaineGregg! Secularists and religious people of many persuasions should surely agree, at the very least, that we do not want our country to suffer the same fate as that of various countries and empires throughout history–societies which have destroyed themselves from within through practices and lifestyles that have increasingly been accepted and sanctioned in our own society and government. Are we so blind as to think we would escape the same, natural consequences–of our own making?
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“There is danger in our getting so closely identified with ideological campaigns that our ability to retain our credibility is jeopardized.”
Ha ha ha ha! You have ZERO credibility outside of very ideologically inclined evangelical circles. No seriously, none. I don’t you think you could possibly get more identified with ideological campaigns than you already are.
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musing 11.22.09 AT 6:55 PM
Toobizy post 10,
twisting? I merely showed that Genesis4Seven’s argument plays both ways.
Defense and offense?
Tell me how the effort on health care reform is going? Sounds like the health care reform offense is working quite well.
—
The Nation do not want Obama Care but the Dem. do not care what the Nations wants. They only care about the people who is going to give them money.
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Pastor roy post 21,
I have posted on this several times in the last day or so, but the nation appears to be split on this issue: it certainly is not a shoe in either way at this point.
In short stating that the nation does not want health reform legiuslation does not appear to match the basic polling data (although if you like we can quibble over the swings of the numbers on a near daily basis).
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ElaineGreg — You may want to read the Declaration with a little more attention, particularly on the part where it gives the ground for the decisions (roughly: Scripture, Reason, Nature). The difficulty with this standard is that these areas mean something quite different to the various signatories. This is what Belz himself acknowledges in the initial post.
If the basis for reasoning is so compromised, then all we are left with is a human religious document — pretty much the definition of civil (as opposed to biblical) religion.
btw, this toleration of differing, even incompatible hermeneutical approaches would seem to be a defining feature of post-modern thought.
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Harris post 230,
I keep rereading your post and find more and more depth to it.
I particularly like your statment:
“btw, this toleration of differing, even incompatible hermeneutical approaches would seem to be a defining feature of post-modern thought. ”
But must confess I am going to have to puzzle over it much more until I am sure I have fully comprehend it.
Nice post!
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My fellow World Magazine readers: If you are a reader of or contributor to this or other blogs, you will have noticed that there are an increasing number of posts that resemble those from “Musing” and “Mynock”. These posts are generally rude, frequently angry, and often filled with name-calling and derisive comments. They are part of the Obama/Democrat propaganda machine which has fanned out across the internet to involve itself in every known blog. You can easily identify them because they are usually sarcastic, demeaning, and generally parrot the current Obama/Democrat talking points. When you disagree with them they respond with verbal fire-bombs. DO NOT RESPOND TO THEM BECAUSE IT IS A WASTE OF TIME. They are paid operatives and are only doing their job. They are completely uninterested in a discussion of any issue. Their goals are to either shut down the discussion or tie up the blog so others of differing opinions either cannot or will not participate. Ignore them. They may not go away, but this will improve the discussion and, who knows, one or two of them may learn something about the truth!
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so Elaine — any ideas beyond the rant?
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“Paid operatives?”
ROFL!
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Musing… 39% approve of Obama care with the ‘affordable option’ of govt. provided ‘care’. That’s not split. They want something done, but they know they don’t want a govt. that can’t buy a toilet seat for less than $100 to be dealing them death pills.
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(Putting on my Musing hat — no, I’m not him):
LewR2: 39%? Where does that number come from? Me, I’m looking at the CBS poll (Nov. 17), and it has 51 percent approval. As I tell my speech students, a non-supported point really undermines the overall case.
And let’s bring this back to the Manhattan Declaration: for it to have force, it will have to be intellectually accountable. This is the case for all positions, btw. Now, I have problems with the declaration in how it handles historical data (for the life of me, I missed the part where Catholics were champions of liberty against a king; Louis XIV, the Huguenots and all seem to be going in a different direction).
I would submit that the need for being accurate with our words is something godly, a showing of respect for what God has entrusted us with.
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The notion that any media outlet is “neutral” or “objective” is a chimera and condemning World for not assuming the mantle of objectivity is actually high praise. An example from history comes to mind: Horace Greeley. He used his newspaper and his personal influence to campaign for many reforms, including the abolition of slavery. The claim of neutrality by media outlets is a sure sign that propaganda will follow. This is sometimes disguised by describing certain opinions as being “out of the mainstream” or characterizing organizations as “far right” or “far left” in supposedly objective reporting. These characterizations really only report the political views of those using the characterization.
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I agree David, that every outlet, every data set comes with some perspective: but the claim to data still must be referenced. If one says, “39% say x”, then we necessarily must ask, where did you find the information. After all, only once we have a source can we then asses accuracy. Again, these are things we teach our students all the time: use sources, document them. And yes, we also tell them that some sources are better than others. So when LewR makes a claim, he may be right. But how do we know? Only if we have the data in front of us. Otherwise, no data no claim.
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Shortly after proposition 8 passed in California last year, the Los Angeles Times and Daily News published editorials mocking the voters who voted for that proposition. I thank God for Joel Belz and Marvin Olasky for their stand. Comments anyone?
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Chuck Colson pens the Manhattan Declaration but maintains it’s NOT political???? Please, this is “Nixon’s Hatchetman”, the author of Nixon’s “Enemies List”, the first man to see jailtime for a Watergate-related crime, the man who said he would run over his own mother to get Nixon re-elected. Yeah, this completely apolitical—-wanna buy the Brooklyn Bridge AND the Manhattan Declaration—comes as a set!!!
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