NYMag: Just how “pro-choice” is America?
New York Magazine has a fascinating article—”The Abortion Distortion: Just How Pro-Choice is America, Really?“—that among other things, looks at the way even abortion providers feel abortion’s moral weight. While the writer Jennifer Senior supports abortion, she looks at America’s discomfort with abortion, the fact that Americans now seem more eager to label themselves pro-life, the statistics that show that crisis pregnancy centers now outnumber abortion providers, and legislation that has shifted public opinion towards valuing life. Even abortion providers recognize that the issue isn’t as neat as their rhetoric might lead you to believe:
And if you want to hear honest talk about the realities of abortion, go speak with those abortion counselors and providers. Even the most radically pro-choice will tell you that the political discourse they hear about the subject, with its easy dichotomies and bumper-sticker boilerplate, has little correspondence to the messy, intricate stories of her patients. They hear about peace and guilt, relief and sin. And it is they who will acknowledge, whether we like it or not, that the rhetoric and imagery of the pro-life movement can touch on some basic emotional truths. Peg Johnston, who manages Access for Women in upstate New York, remembers the first time her patients unconsciously began to co-opt the language of the protesters outside. “And it wasn’t that these protesters were brainwashing them,” she says. “It’s that they were tapping into things we all have some discomfort about.”

















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back to top35 Comments to “NYMag: Just how “pro-choice” is America?”
When you use the phrase “pro-choice,” always insist that the user clarifies whether they are referring to legalized slavery, education vouchers, killing the unborn, or some other policy option politicians might come up with?
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DEAR ALISA:
Don’t be too simplistic about this. You ask the average American if they would terminate one of their own pregnancies, and in most cases the answer would probably be “NO.” From that you might infer that most Americans are “Pro-Life.”
But if you ask the very same Americans if they would want to make that decision for someone else, I suspect most of them would also say “NO.” From THAT you could infer that most Americans are “Pro-Choice.”
It really depends on how you phrase the question, as I’m sure you’ll agree. Sure, most Americans might be against abortion on a purely PERSONAL level, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they want draconian bans on abortion written into public policy. If you asked the average American if abortion during the first trimester of pregnancy should remain legal, I think the overwhelming majority would say “YES.”
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The face of evil is the one who calls themself pro-life and believes abortion rights should be free and unfettered. The word “choice” is amoral by itself; it’s an incomplete sentence; a subject without an object. Every ‘choice’ has a moral element that is added only when the ‘choice’ is chosen. In a sense, God is ‘pro-choice’. He gave man the ability to choose good from evil. “Pro-choice” is simply a pro-abortion smoke screen.
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I have always been amazed at the same arguments made by apologists for slavery that now are trotted out for abortion. Many in the 1850 were no doubt “personally opposed” to slavery yet fought ea and every effort to regulate it, halt its spread into new territories etc.
I dont think we’ll see any substantive change until the missing element in the unplanned pregnancy “crisis” is exposed to sunlight: the sperm donors. These after all are often the ones paying for the procedure.
And as Dinesh Dsouza and others have pointed out, our unfettered unregulated/unregulatable abortion industry is the last vestige of the libertine “sexual revolution” brought on by Hefner, Kinsey, Steinem etc.
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Your shock is a conviction.
Does it surprise you to learn that even access advocates and abortion counselors don’t glory in every abortion preformed and relish the death’s of “babies” (or even make baby relishes)? Maybe you’re shocked because you have never taken the time to understand why pro-choicers are pro-choice.
You have continually passed up opportunities to acknowledge the humanity of people in difficult circumstances. You have repeatedly given primacy to your own ideological convictions. You have taken great political liberties with other people’s bodies. And you have sacrificed moral authority to do so.
You don’t own the “moral weight” (whatever that is supposed to mean) of abortion.
“Americans now seem more eager to label themselves pro-life…”
Good. They can be “pro-life” without supporting state-ownership of a woman’s body. You can “like babies” and believe firmly that the choice to reproduce is individual. You can have an ideological believe that more babies is always good and still have a brain with which to make sensible, open, and non-misogynistic policy.
“…crisis pregnancy centers now outnumber abortion providers…”
Good. Let them double and triple as long as women are not coerced. Crisis pregnancy centers and abortion providers are not competition with each other. Their isn’t a battle to loose while they both operate safely and freely. They are actually in quite different markets! You’re even free to give women religious reasons for not having an abortion, that might be part of her decision making process. But you should respect her right to a choice and let it be her choice alone. Pray for her, not that her decision will be what you think it should be.
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“Many in the 1850 were no doubt “personally opposed” to slavery yet fought ea and every effort to regulate it, halt its spread into new territories etc.”
A clumsy metaphor is no substitute for a working brain. This is fallacious.
A more thoughtful comparison between abortion rights and slavery might draw attention to the fact that slave women’s reproductive choices were removed from them by a system that raped and brutalized them to turn their bodies into incubators for the slave owners’ profits.
This happened because the legal system held that their bodies actually weren’t their own. “Not your body? Not your choice!” It’s a lesson that pro-choice advocates learned from history…and the pro-lifers (especially the men) are apparently still struggling with.
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“Your shock is a conviction.” #5 MyNock
What does that mean?
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MyNock
Are you a woman?
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“You don’t own the “moral weight” (whatever that is supposed to mean) of abortion.” MyNock #5
You are right. Our problem is that we have been too complacent about abortion–that we don’t fight hard enough against it.
We will answer only to God for that–not to you or to any other person.
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MyNock
Crisis Preg. Centers ARE seen as a threat to Abortion Clinics. They have placed restrictions on them as far as what they can say or do. They have tried to keep ultra-sound machines from being used in the CPC clinics. They have gotten them removed from locations. Didn’t we read recently that some CPC clinics have to place a sign in the window saying they DON’T do abortions.
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POLISHBEAR
Actually abortions are “draconian” if you really think about it.
It is harsh when a woman is convinced she needs to get an abortion because maybe her boyfriend or husband or parents say you must. It is very harsh to give a woman an abortion without telling her what the possible side effects are. (Every other surgery and drug gives the possible side effects.) And the people who don’t want her to know the facts are saving her from that burden how?
You DO know who founded Planned Parenthood? That woman and the people who celebrate her are definitely draconian.
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But you should respect her right to a choice and let it be her choice alone.
Because, to do otherwise (i.e. disrespect her right to a choice) is akin to disrespecting the choice itself. That is to say, the act of choosing is, by itself, amoral, and by extension, the object of that choice is equally amoral.
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POLISHBEAR – Are you a woman?
Abortion has been around for a very long time.
It is sad that we have to pay for abortion under the guise of “safe” abortions. A hysterectomy isn’t safe in a hospital. Even a D&C isn’t safe in a hospital. Is any operation safe?
When a doctor goes inside a person and removes stuff, it isn’t safe.
If you are a man, how ignoble of you to support a woman’s right to abortion.
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Abortion is a moral issue, not a political one.
My generation got a bit lost in the Roe v. Wade wave of new possibilities. This new generation seems to have thought it through without the fog of the sexual revolution and sees some things more clearly. A woman should have control over her own body, but that choice is decided before she concieves.
My body is mine. My children’s bodies are not mine.
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It doesn’t matter if Americans are pro-choice or not.
The gov’t &/or the courts have chosen for us.
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oops!
I should have added “for billions of years” to this statement:
“Abortion has been around for a very long time.” #13
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Adios #14
“Abortion is a moral issue, not a political one.”
Should be.
Since my sister had an abortion, my mother agrees with “must keep it out of the back alleys and away from doctors who use coat hangers to abort.” Another statement was that we don’t want people to have children who might abuse them. If they don’t want the child, they will abuse the child. (I remember both of those statements being used FOR abortion rights.)
I recently read about the history of abortion. It has been offered by regular doctors for a very long time–before “abortion rights”.
Roe V Wade – Maybe someone wanted more people to know it was readily available. If everyone else is doing it, then it can’t be a bad thing. Right?
Maybe someone wanted it covered by health insurance, hence gov’t involvement.
Doesn’t gov’t sponsorship mean politics?
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Women who take the chance and get pregnant should give the baby a chance to live. Where’s the compassion for the child? There are no guarantees in life. Unwanted babies should be given up for adoption, not killed before they’re born. What is SO complicated about that??
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An interesting article to say the least.
If you really want to do away with abortion in the United States at least in the South and West simply have all the RN’s that claim that they are Christian to prove it by not assisting with any abortions. Most abortion clinics would not be able to find enough RN’s to assist.
Here in South Carolina because were are allowed to treat an abortion clinic as a surgical facility and it gets a regular inspection by the state we are down to one clinic for the entire state.
But that is not the end of the story. Among hospitals we have a hospital that performed abortions and performed the most abortions for a hospital it happens to be in the biggest republician county in the state.
As far as Roe V Wade remember it was based on false information. The girl that they brought in as Roe was not even pregnant.
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You’re mistaken on one fact, Rocket Man. Norma mcCorvey aka Jane Roe was pregnant and gave birth to her baby. She lied about having been raped. She revealed herself in the 1980s and claimed that she was used as a pawn by the plaintiff-hunting lawyers looking for a client to challenge the TX law.
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Contrary to the misguided views of abortion advocates, Ford Motor Company recognizes the humanity of babies in the womb and the need to protect them from death or injury from car. accidents.
“There is now a crash-test dummy that simulates a pregnant woman (called MAMA 2B for Maternal Anthropomorphic Measurement Apparatus version 2B). Its uterine area is filled with fluid, and pressure on the fluid is measured.”
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2009-11-27-protecting-pregnant-drivers-ford-research_N.htm
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Many (not all) in the Old South were also pro-choice. They were personally opposed to legalized slavery but they thought the states had the right to choose their own policy on this matter.
Legalized slavery was a terrible evil in our history (which the Republican party was founded in large measure to abolish, and did so–true to its word and purpose), but legalized abortion is morally worse. In one case, innocent humans suffer under oppression. In the other, innocent humans are brutally ripped to pieces and exterminated without any recourse as if they were pests.
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Interesting article, Nana. But it has nothing to do with reproductive health policy re: abortion access. Aren’t there conversions for “race car style” seat belts that go over both shoulders? Someone should test those belts to see if they preform better for pregnant women.
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This was a very interesting article, thank you for sharing it.
I can’t decide if I appreciate or am irritated that the author thought all her readers agreed with her . . . . but that aside, I thought she stepped through the minefields in a clear way. The in-depth counseling the woman received sounded exactly like the type of questions she would have gotten at a pregnancy counseling center–though, obviously, with a slightly different encouragement and slant.
And it’s interesting for me to read because the author seems to think the pro-life side is “winning.” That’s an unusual take on the subject and not one you often see in the media.
I agree completely this is a very complex and messy subject and I don’t think most women get up in the morning determined to get an abortion. Most abortions are the result of failures–whether of birth control, relationships, hopes, dreams, decision-making, boyfriend choices. That’s another reason why they weigh so heavily on the women who feel forced to abort.
And I don’t care who you are–nothing good can come of a 15 year-old aborting a 23-week fetus. Carrying to term would be healthier for her emotionally and physically. Yes, making an adoption decision would be extremely difficult and hard–and she would bear the repercussions of that all her life. But really, would you rather grieve because you sacrificed nine months for another person, or because you ended an innocent person’s life?
This is what we see so often– women abandoned by people they love and trust, who encourage them to terminate their pregnancies. With a little love and encouragement from others, many women would never contemplate an abortion.
I’m surprised to see the angle this article takes that if the Stupak amendment remains with the health care plan, it could end abortion as we know it in the US. Wow, if that’s true, I may change my opinion . . .
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I don’t know how anyone can read that article and not see the complete and utter lack of SENSE in what they say.
The doctor points out that she dismembered a 23 old week fetus, and then went and delivered one (that apparently lived). And, she herself sees the problem that the ONLY difference is that one was wanted and the other wasn’t. A bit of skin and womb, that’s all that separated one baby’s death and another’s life.
And, “apparent life” in another place? It is MOVING and the heart is BEATING, that isn’t “apparent” it IS.
Can we talk hypocrisy and lying to oneself? The article is chalk full of it.
At best, I would think we could all agree that second and third term abortions are NOT okay and should be outlawed.
I’m glad for the new technology. I hope our kids are less able to lie to themselves and that they really are much more pro-choice.
And, at the end, the kids now-a-days actually holding the person *responsible* for their previous choices. Wow. Maybe there is hope for the next generation.
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Someday, I believe history books will look back on this time and people will be unable to believe that people actually argued FOR abortion rights.
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As usual, I will point out that the emotional emphasis on abortion at this web site is peculiar when compared to all the other kinds of suffering and cruelty in the world, such as genocide.
As usual, I don’t offer this as “proof,” but the outburst a while back about the distress at suffering or being around suffering a miscarriage (which I have experienced) makes me suspect that the emotional intensity and outrage is displaced anger at God.
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The emperor doesn’t have on any clothes, TRS, but so many are blinded by lies they’re handicapped. You have to speak to people where they are–even if what they say is offensive–if you want them to have a chance of hearing truth.
That’s why this writer’s description of pro-choice attitudes toward partial birth abortion was revealing, along with her distress when people have to admit truth even if that means the facade cracks. You can’t deny life forever and still be human. Many pro-choice people believe they are acting in the best interest of the women–they feel the women are in terrible situations and shouldn’t have to bear an unwanted or inconvenient child.
I’ve talked with many people who are in such dismal circumstances, you can understand why they feel they need to abort. I can hear them–I understand why you feel that way and yes, your situation is dire–but let’s “turn the prism,” and view your life from a different angle. Perhaps there is some hope here, somewhere.
Most people do not want to kill their children. Many women can’t see any other alternative. So we weep with those who weep, we mourn with those who mourn, and we remind them that God is in the business of working miracles–even in the most desperate circumstances. And then, like God, we leave the choice in their hands.
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#27
Constantly repeating what has been refuted and explained already is similar to the definition of insanity, IMO.
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Reproductive health includes protecting and allowing the baby to come to term, including better seatbelts for pregnant women.
The painful, emotional and moral conflicts of abortion counseling and performance should give added caution to decide for life. Thaat’s where the real abortion distortion of pro-choice lies. Do abortion advocates and clinics provide a real choice?
Pro-life pregnancy centers are honest about opposing the deaths of unborn children. Do pro-choicers suggest this alternative? I wonder why not.
The NYMag article is a smokescreen for their numbers war getting votes for federally funded abortions.
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So as one might expect we need to be careful here.
Are we arguing for strict control of, but availability of abortion, or are we looking at total elimination of abortion?
If the former, then arguably the anti-abortion forces are perhaps 63% agaist to 34% in favor.
If we are arguing that abortion should be legal but controlled, the statistics reverse to 74% for to 23% against.
See:
http://www.pollingreport.com/abortion.htm
This site appears to be against all abortions. If so, then this is a minority positon.
If one argues for strcitly controlled but legal aboritons, this is a majority positon.
So are the posters and WMB willing to legalize abortion but with strict controls? There will be some abortions.
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Michelle, you’re right that we have to approach women at their level of distress and speak the truth in love. They need to be assured that God loves them. When they leave a pregnancy counseling center they make up their own minds. We don’t always know what follows.
Delivering a premature baby an hour after the doctor has killed one boggles my mind, even though they truly feel sorry for the dilemma of those who opt for abortion.
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Several years I go read somewhere (Mathewes-Green???) that Americans are growing increasingly opposed to abortion with three exceptions: rape, incest, and the difficult situation they/their daughter currently find themselves in. I’ve never understood when pro-“choice” supports talk about the difficult situation pregnant women find themselves in. Isn’t one the purposes of the law to protect people in desperate situations from doing desperate things they will regret later?
In my opinion Americans are increasingly taking an ends justify the means outlook on life, and this is just one area. Sure we’re growing more opposed to abortion. But that doesn’t mean we don’t think it is necessary. One step forward, two steps back. I do tend to be pessimistic.
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Mynock: “You have taken great political liberties with other people’s bodies. And you have sacrificed moral authority to do so.”
Much more so do abortion supporters take liberties and sacrifice moral authority with the body of the baby.
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Months 5 and 6: The baby practices breathing by inhaling amniotic fluid into its developing lungs. The baby will grasp at the umbilical cord when it feels it. Most mothers feel an increase in movement, kicking, and hiccups from the baby. Oil and sweat glands are now functioning. The baby is now twelve inches long or more, and weighs up to one and a half pounds.
BELOW is an excerpt from the article in this thread – it fits within the development of a living infant.
“And then there was Harris, who wrote about performing an abortion on a woman who was 23 weeks along and then immediately running to deliver a premature baby … of 23 to 24 weeks. “I thought to myself how bizarre it was that I could have legally dismembered this fetus-now-newborn if it were inside its mother’s uterus,”
Notice week 20 – the infant recognizes its mothers voice – What does that mother’s voice say?
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