Well, that’s you.

But most atheists are apparently better than that.

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“I am not an atheist, but I know a few. I think they would tell you that life has meaning because they choose to invest it with meaning and enjoy their passage on the earth even if there is no larger purpose to it.”

Hmmm. If this were true, then I wonder why they shackle themselves to silly ideas of altruism or helping the group/society. Hedonism would be the way to go, or so I gather from imagining my behavior under a similar circumstance. Plus, investing your life with meaning yourself is so pointless. Besides the fact that you are then the only thing keeping yourself from doing anything, you simply have no meaning yourself to start with or give to life. I’m thinking you can’t give something you don’t have. And an atheist, like anyone else, realizes his or her own mortality. What meaning can anything have for you once you no longer exist?

“Many atheists are civic-minded and interested in helping others, and eager to be engaged in activities that better society.”

This is what strikes me as inconsistent. I simply can’t imagine a reason why this should be the case. The vast majority of atheists talk about this phenomenon of helping society and others as an evolutionary survival method on the species level. I don’t see that this idea works. Your actions aren’t dictated by genes, at least for the most part. You could still overcome it, and there’s plenty of reasons to. And, I don’t see that it could have come about in the first place. Humans should have died out upon acquiring reason.

“And if you asked them why they bother, you’d get a variety of answers, but none would reflect the bleakness you are so sure simply must be their lot.”

I don’t know, Random is pretty bleak sometimes. Seriously though, I have asked, and I have gotten a few answers, (mainly the one I referenced above), and none of them seem to work very well.

“In short, you may think you’re being clever, but the way you consistently describe atheists does not match my experience with them.”

Mine either, for the most part. This is why I refer to it as inconsistent, and talk about being confused by it.

“In a way, they may get more out of life than many Christians; since they believe it is all they have, they are determined to wring every bit of fulfillment and joy out of it that they can.”

Seems to me to be a perfect reason to be hedonistic and totally unethical. Of course, I’ve said before, once you realize that it is all you have, and that it can be so filled with suffering and stress, I’d imagine suicide would be tempting. When I ask myself, for example, “TJS, why have you not committed suicide?,” the answers I give myself revolve around religion. God has a plan, or God has said it’s wrong, or I care about my friends and family, (which I’d have no reason to as an atheist), or some such. Atheists don’t have that.

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In short, you may think you’re being clever, but the way you consistently describe atheists does not match my experience with them. In a way, they may get more out of life than many Christians; since they believe it is all they have, they are determined to wring every bit of fulfillment and joy out of it that they can.

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I grabbed data for “% of voters who voted for Obama”, “% of population that is African American” and “% of population living under the poverty line” for 47 states. I had to omit California, Louisiana and New Hampshire since they don’t report abortion statistics.

Then I checked how well each of those statistics correlates with “abortions per 1000 live births”. Percent poverty and percent African American didn’t correlate at all. Percent voted for Obama correlated fairly well, though there were some big outliers.

Another thing to consider- the number of abortions in a given state received by non-residents also varies HUGELY from state to state:

http://www.abortionfacts.com/statistics/out_of_state_94.asp

2% of abortions in Texas were by non-residents. 40% of abortions in Kansas were by non-residents. Kansas, by the way, was one of the “outlier” states in that its abortion rate was much higher than one would expect given the % of Obama voters.

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As far as I know, our thoughts and emotions are nothing more than chemical processes in our brains. This is quite consistent with the wide variety of human behavior and communication.

Most people believe what they are raised to believe. Some don’t. In Hindu countries, most people grow up to be Hindus. In Buddhist countries, most people grow up to be Buddhists. In Muslim countries most people grow up to be Muslims. Not only that, they most grow up to hold to the exact flavor of their belief system.

Among Christians, most raised to be Protestants grow up to be Protestants. Most raised to be Catholics grow up to be Catholics.

In all cases, there are variations. Humans are immensely complicated, and it is not yet possible to completely control and shape them, but as soon as you depart from individual cases and deal with statistically significant numbers, most follow the designated path.

It is quite amusing to see so many people talking about children becoming Christians at 5 or 6 or so, in age. This is not consistent with adult decision making and choice; this is consistent with indoctrination of a young mind before it can make intelligent decisions. Most people do not want to raise children who are autonomous, intelligent evaluators of possibilities. Most parents want to raise children who will little intellectual and clones of themselves. As there is no guarantee that we survive after our death, the more likely way to feel immortal is to produce little copies that reflect and perpetuate our values and behavior.

This is probably one of the reasons why so many evangelical Christians are so obsessed with reproduction and producing as many children as possible. If you produce five children, the odds increase the chances that at least one will be a satisfying reproduction of yourself in terms of perpetuating your appearance, your values, your behavior, and so on.

There is no evidence there is a God. The human enthusiasm for believing there is one is based to a large extent on wishful thinking.

The constant repetition at this web site does not exude confidence. It projects doubt and desperation. Worldmagblog is like a huge hall of shaky mirrors.

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Comes across to me as “You can’t understand God’s values, but I am sure I do, so you must believe what I tell you about God.”

I don’t believe you know any more about what God wants then I do. Why should I think you do?

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And to extrapolate on what Nana said: how exactly do you claim to know that babies hope, or dream, or appreciate art and music? How can you claim to know that fetuses don’t? Or that animals don’t? Are you saying that we can somehow measure these things, (as you seem to want me to do with God), and prove that they exist in one thing but not another?

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