Proclaiming Christ on Fox News
Fox shock! As was noted on WorldMagBlog yesterday, Brit Hume crossed the line of decency on Fox News Sunday With Chris Wallace (and on Sunday, of all days!) by recommending “the Christian faith” to Tiger Woods as the remedy for his personal problems. In case you missed it, here’s the clip (viewer discretion advised):
As you can see, reflecting on the mess that Woods has made of his life—his career, his family—Hume pointed out that Woods’ religion, which is Buddhism, is ill-equipped to deal with the family side of the crisis, as there is no element of forgiveness and redemption in the Far East religion and philosophy. Essentially, Hume called him to give his heart and life to Christ.
Hume is Episcopalian, which is usually as Protestant as a public figure can become while still remaining respectable. He became much more serious about his faith after the suicide of his son, Sandy Hume, himself a prominent journalist, in 1998. When he stepped down from his role as a Fox News anchor and the news channel’s Washington, D.C., managing editor in 2008, he told The Hollywood Reporter about his plans:
I certainly want to pursue my faith more ardently than I have done. I’m not claiming it’s impossible to do when you work in this business. I was kind of a nominal Christian for the longest time. When my son died, I came to Christ in a way that was very meaningful to me. If a person is a Christian and tries to face up to the implications of what you say you believe, it’s a pretty big thing. If you do it part time, you’re not really living it.
Last night on The O’Reilly Factor, Hume went even further beyond the bounds of good taste and acceptable public morality (see video clip below). He used two of the nine words you must never use on the public airwaves: Jesus Christ. Swearing is OK, but he wasn’t swearing. Bill O’Reilly asked him if he was “proselytizing.” Hume said he didn’t think he was, but of course he was. Hume also denied that he was criticizing Buddhism, but he was obviously pointing out a rather stark and fundamental deficiency in that belief system, especially in comparison to what is found in Christ.
In a 2008 Reuters interview, Woods explained his religious practice this way:
“I practice meditation—that is something that I do, that my mum taught me over the years. We also have a thing we do every year, where we go to temple together.”
It is not just thoughtless ritual for him, however. He understands the spirit of it quite clearly: “In the Buddhist religion you have to work for it yourself, internally, in order to achieve anything in life and set up the next life. It is all about what you do and you get out of it what you put into it.”
Woods, the world’s greatest golfer (who was accomplished even from the age of 2, as you can see on the clip below from The Mike Douglas Show) knows what it is to work hard and reach a high level of achievement. It was not just his Buddhism that moved him toward this driven self-reliance. His father, Earl, was in the U.S. Army Special Forces. “A tough guy,” said Woods of his dad. And his Thai mother, Kultida, from whom he got his religious beliefs, was even more competitive, according to her son.
What has come crashing down is not only Woods’ primary sources of enormous income, but also his sponsorship network, his family life, and, more fundamentally, his entire self-understanding. Great men of extraordinary talent and relentless hard work do not humiliate themselves on such a universal scale. When someone who sees himself as a superman is forced to confront his fundamental human frailty, it is suitable and timely for someone to direct his attention to God’s grace for sinners in the Savior, Jesus Christ.
Was Hume abusing his position as a newsman on a panel of news analysts? Or was he just offering . . . analysis? Kyle Koster at The Chicago Sun-Times, for example, points out the oddity of “a newsman offering advice to the beleaguered golfer, not a religious pundit. Hume is a senior political analyst, so why is he doing his Bible-thumping on one of the station’s news programs?”
Why should Christian categories and the spiritual dimension of the lives of public figures be forbidden in media discussion that is pitched to a broad audience? Most Americans identify themselves as Christian. So when “we,” through our journalists in the media, discuss our shared life, why should we pretend that we are an atheistic state like China, or an aggressively secularist state like France? That is an America that exists only in the minds and longing hearts of the secularists and libertines who dominate most of the media these days. But Fox News does not share that view. That may be part of the reason so many Americans prefer Fox for their TV news and analysis. Fox speaks their language and reports from within their world. Anyone who wants reporting and opinion with the presupposition of a Godless universe has many alternatives on other channels.

















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back to top123 Comments to “Proclaiming Christ on Fox News”
wow go hume go, you have the right to voice that view.
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There is no reason why Brit Hume should avoid telling the world why he believes and who he believes in which is Jesus Christ.
Making a statement, perhaps as sarcasm? – however still a comment such as the one below is rather odd by Innes above – what is the point? – or is it just to get the liberals angry. Why is it a man like Hume cannot make a statement of faith without EVEN the so called Christians making noise over it?
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Victoria, in context that statement appears to be a sarcastic comment on how Hume’s comments have been criticized by the media.
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Perhaps Seanmt, but it serves no purpose.
Another gem:
No reason for the above critique, it was a catty remark made by someone who should know better. Disrespect from a pastor waged against a man like Hume for speaking of Christ says a great deal -
Yet another swipe:
“Bible-thumping” – I see jealousy in that remark – Hume has the dignity and honor that few men have in journalism and yet he’s called such a name. It boils down to Hume standing strong, and another mocking.
Call it sarcastic, which is just an excuse – it was out of place.
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Brit Hume needs to talk about his guilt, if any, in his divorce and in the suicide of his son, and explain what got forgiven, and how that fixed him up. Then, he can get all righteous on Tiger.
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Moth,
That’s nothing but an ignorant cheap shot at a parent who mourned the death of a child he loved. As usual this is your reasoning powers at a low level, aimed at a man who is respected highly in journalism – there are few who measure up to Brit Hume.
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ADDING to my post 6-
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Victoria – on the “Bible thumping” thing, D.C. was quoting someone else, and not with approval.
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Buzzy, the piece is full of contraditions and remarks, that are in my opinion, meant to discredit Hume in a not so craftily worded paper.
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#5: Pathetic. Joke.
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That is exactly what this thread is all about – not one person can change the fact that Jesus Christ makes all the difference in the world, HIS death on the Cross was for the sins of anyone who believed and repented of their sins.
YEP, all “hell breaks out” when the name of Jesus is spoken, especially on national TV by a man who is one of the most respected journalists.
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If Brit Hume were a great journalist, the journalist would cross-examine Brit Hume, the pontificator.
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It’s a breath of fresh air when I see a news analayst reflect Christ on national T.V. Keep shining bright Brit!
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Victoria – you may be right, but when I read it, it came across to me more like D.C. was using irony as a way of commenting on the intolerant state of affairs in the world of secular journalism. Plus, with the Bible-thumping thing in particular, you can see from the quotation marks and the attribution that D.C. is merely quoting Kyle Koster (whoever he is), and then from the following paragraph that D.C. disapproves of what Mr. Koster said, and has an opposite viewpoint.
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Buzzy
The entire piece is garbled in contradition – making the excuse that it’s sarcasm, sarcastic or irony doesn’t work, I’m not the only one who has viewed it this way.
If one wants to “QUOTE” another they should use the individuals name, by not doing so it becomes a game. In this case when it’s about Jesus Christ and HIS Saving power, as Brit Hume pointed out, there is no excuse for the games. When I read a ’showmanship’ sort of piece, it’s a glaring attempt to confuse the reader, and then sit back and wait for the fireworks – in this case it back-fired.
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As Brit Hume pointed out:
I just don’t expect it from those who claim to be Believers.
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In Hume’s interview with O’Reilly, it came across that Hume is a fan of Tiger Woods’ and that he is more interested in seeing Woods save his marriage than his professional reputation. He was soft-spoken, calm, and even fatherly in his suggestion on the Sunday program. At a low point in someone’s life, where the knowledge of forgiveness means everything, Brit Hume, as a friend, wanted Tiger to know that kind of forgiveness is there waiting for him, and for everyone else. If Brit Hume, a leading and respected journalist, knew he needed the forgiveness of Christ, then how can he stand by and watch someone else who is also a leader and respected in his field go through such an ordeal in front of the whole world and not point him to the cross? Hume is to be commended for his bravery in addressing this point in such a heavily discussed topic.
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D.C. Innes asked; “Why should Christian categories and the spiritual dimension of the lives of public figures be forbidden in media discussion that is pitched to a broad audience?”
Because our secularist media gatekeepers are intolerant, that’s why. They are also intolerant about having their intolerance pointed out too.
But you knew that already, didn’t you D.C.?
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If one wants to “QUOTE” another they should use the individuals name.
Victoria – read the second-to-last paragraph. D.C. does, in fact, use the individual’s name and quotation marks. In the very next paragraph he basically explains what’s wrong with the quote. This is basic stuff.
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Just finished watching the Daily Show’s reaction to Hume’s comments. Well worth a listen. I can’t link to it since Cdn copyright is different but you should be able to find it on the Comedy Channel or just Google it.
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I commend Mr. Hume for his honest commitment to report his views on a subject. As someone else stated, there is no much being said on TV – good an bad – why should there be a problem where Christianity is concerned?
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Buzzy,
Did I say that everything that had been quoted was missing the author’s name? NO I did not. It isn’t “basic stuff” when it’s missing half the time, and others are suppposed to guess. The entire piece is contradictory in my opinion.
Who should we attribute this little gem to?
Who wrote that? That isn’t “basic stuff” – it’s something that liberals are known for, that’s their “basic” – So who wrote that? Are you going to tell me that’s sarcasm, irony or some other nonsense?
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So in the author’s opinion Hume was “proselytizing” because he said “Jesus Christ” – and then to add to it the author adds “but of course he was.” – Ask yourself, WHY WAS THE AUTHOR of this PIECE trying to make a case against Hume? Bill O’Reilly asked the question, Hume answered BUT STILL the author of this piece says “but of course he was.” —- why make a case against Hume? – what’s the point?
Speaking of the power of GOD and what HE can do in ones life is not “proselytizing” it’s being truthful, honest to a hurting world. Certainly Tiger Woods is hurting…… Hume was offering the only hope there is, and that is through Jesus Christ.
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Inky: Great post at #17.
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The “Comedy Channel”? Where the trash runs deeper than any landfill mentioned on another blog.
I think that many commenters on this link refuse to see the truth of Mr. Hume’s words simply because they express the Love that Christ has for all who are caught up in sin and death.
Redemption and forgiveness is sweet.
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Are you going to tell me that’s sarcasm, irony or some other nonsense.
Irony.
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Mr. Hume is certainly entitled to believe whet he wishes, and to express that belief in the context of his job.
The issue, I suppose, is context. Inky33 stated that Brit Hume is a fan of Tiger Woods, then a sentence later, asserts that they are “friends”. (Or rather, that Hume was acting as a friend.)
The problem with this is that there is no indication that they even know each other. You can’t be acting as a friend if you’ve never met.
If a random stranger criticized my deeply held and carefully studied religious beliefs on national TV, I’d consider that bad manners. If it was a seatmate on a plane, I’d shut the conversation down pretty fast. Religion is deeply personal, and the curious know where to go to get information if they want it. And for the record, I think that authentic friends of different faiths can have productive discussions about religion and theology.
To illustrate why it’s inappropriate to randomly accost people about personal matters, consider:
Supermarket:
Woman 1: Excuse me. Do you know where the cereal aisle is?
Woman 2: It’s 17, right over there. And I also know that your skirt and blouse are way too tight. There’s a store called Large & Lovely at the end of the lot. Plus, you should watch What Not To Wear on TLC. That Stacy and Clinton changed my life!
Random clerk: When you get to the cereal, I suggest Grape Nuts. My wife’s behind was the size of Topeka, and when she changed her diet, the pounds fell right off. She looks and feels great!
Teen: Lady? Those glasses are from 1982, right? I got a great deal on Burberry frames at LensCrafters!
*brief silence*
Woman 1: I may be a slob with a fat can and old glasses, but as you’ve pointed out, those things can be changed. You three will always be obnoxious.
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Wow. Who knew that because I am not an Episcopalian but still a Protestant that I’m not respectable? How insulting.
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When it came to issues of sin and salvation, Jesus Christ was also considered to have very bad manners. he was hated for it too. Jesus considered salvation too important for him to pull punches about what was needed to receive that gift (namely to repent and accept forgiveness through him).
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That said, I think Brit Hume’s “manners” were incredibly good.
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When it came to issues of sin and salvation, Jesus Christ was also considered to have very bad manners.
There was only one Jesus, and Brit Hume isn’t he. Presuming a privilege reserved for the Divine is the mistake evangelicals make.
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Presuming a privilege reserved for the Divine is the mistake evangelicals make.
What “privilege” did you have in mind here, preaching the Gospel. Read through the Book of Acts and tell me if you still think it is “reserved for the Divine.”
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Buzzy, I think I’d be more tolerant of a trained pastor or priest engaging me in such a conversation; after all, it is the person’s job.
But a random pew-warmer? I don’t think so.
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It is amazing how the left seeks to squelch Brit Hume’s freedom to speak.
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So Thomas1 is bothered by a guy trying to offer help to a person whose life is a mess.
Big deal.
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Thomas1,
Tiger Woods is in a very deep and very public hole, one that’s been discussed on the news, in the papers, and other media incessantly. There’s no comparison to some random lady in a supermarket.
As Christians, we believe that we all have the good news of God’s forgiveness to give to other people. We acknowledge that we’ve needed it ourselves and now have joy and peace because we have received it.
Brit Hume gave some very kind, thoughtful advice for Tiger, based on his own beliefs and life. I doubt that hardly anyone is speaking to Tiger that kindly right now. And Tiger Woods desperately needs a radical “fix” in his life right now. God is the only One who can provide that for him.
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Beth – I don’t question Hume’s motivation, style of delivery, or underlying beliefs.
That’s easy for me to do, you see, because I don’t know the guy.
Random advice to a stranger on deeply personal beliefs and ideas is most often a bad idea, likely to be poorly received.
If someone tried to convert you to Satanism while you were just trying to get some frozen peas, I think you’d be irked. Not so much because Satanism is wrong or you disagree with it, but because your own beliefs were arrived at after study and thought, and you’re just not interested in pentagrams. You’re not going to be able to convince the Satanist of anything. So – such conversations are most often an annoying waste of time.
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It’s amazing how NJLawyer misreads sensible disagreement with Hume as a desire to squelch his freedom.
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We are to share the gospel, in season and out of season. Hume indeed went out on a limb, but driven by what I think appear to be honorable and compassionate motives.
Those who know Christ also know that other religions lead people astray. And so it is out of love for our neighbor and their well-being that we share the gospel — with respect, gentleness and compassion.
It’s funny, but in the couple years as a young adult before I became a Christian, I realized that friends or acquaintances who shared bits of the gospel or said they’d prayed for me were doing so out of caring motives. Although I didn’t accept the gospel at that time, their sharing didn’t really bother me for that reason, I understood that it was coming from a sincere place.
That’s all Hume was doing and I commend him for having the guts to do it. His words were spoken gently and respectfully.
But we live in a culture that is fast trying to “forget” any and all reminders of Christ. Thus the loud objections and gasps we hear so often these days whenever the name above all names is uttered earnestly and with sincerity in public.
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Thomas1 01.06.10 AT 10:26 AM
When it came to issues of sin and salvation, Jesus Christ was also considered to have very bad manners.
There was only one Jesus, and Brit Hume isn’t he. Presuming a privilege reserved for the Divine is the mistake evangelicals make.
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wow so much for reaching out to people for Christ
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Thomas1 01.06.10 AT 10:52 AM
Buzzy, I think I’d be more tolerant of a trained pastor or priest engaging me in such a conversation; after all, it is the person’s job.
But a random pew-warmer? I don’t think so.
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NO you would answer that you are not my pastor and I have my own belief in God’s Word leave me alone
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I’d say it’s all of our jobs to minister in the name of Christ, then invite them to church. Christians are all called to study and to be ready to give an answer for the faith that lies within them.
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I am an evangelical Christian, but my reaction was to be turned off by what Hume said. I’d like to explain my reasons — not to pit them against other views and fight it out to see who is right. More so in case anyone is curious as to why I had that reaction. I’m not even certain I’m 100% correct — this is just my reaction.
First — someone counseling Tiger Woods to look to Christ? Wonderful. The best thing that could happen to Tiger.
But why I was generally turned off?
First, Hume wasn’t speaking to Tiger. He was speaking to the Fox TV audience, and then really to the entire world via replays on the Web. It’s quite possible that Tiger will never even hear what Hume said, given the bubble that rich celebrities can live in. If Hume was giving a sermon to his audience, using Tiger’s situation as an object lesson, I think he would have come across more humble and less presumptuous if it was structured as such, rather than pretending he was actually talking to Tiger (and more importantly) pretending that Tiger was listening. (Hume is a journalist, and I know this “open letter to so-and-so” is a traditional journalistic technique. It’s really a way of communicating one’s opinion more than a literal letter to so-and-so. Maybe that is what Hume was doing.)
Second, as the D.C. pointed out, most non-Evangelicals (who are presumably the target audience of an evangelical sermon) will be instinctively turned off by Hume “telling Tiger what to do”, and by criticizing Buddhism. Now, Hume isn’t obligated to water down or soften the truth of his message because people are turned off by it. Definitely not. But if the audience is more likely to be open to the message when presented one way, and more likely to tune it out the other, with no change in the truth presented, why not choose the first way? I think it may have been more effective if he had spent more time on his own personal story, revealing some things that would show humility on his part, and then tied it into Tiger at the very end along the lines “I hope and pray that Tiger will seek and find the same redemption that I have found.”
That all being said, Hume is his own man and doesn’t answer to me. If he is comfortable with what he did that is fine with me. And I do commend him for his courage and faith in putting that message out in any form. I don’t know if I would have the same courage and faith.
So my purpose isn’t to take on Hume personally, but just to add to the analysis of his message among the World Mag blog audience.
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donna j 01.06.10 AT 12:51 PM
I’d say it’s all of our jobs to minister in the name of Christ, then invite them to church. Christians are all called to study and to be ready to give an answer for the faith that lies within them.
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Donna, If Hume was attacking Christian and our Faith, then people like Thomas would be here singing His praises
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NO you would answer that you are not my pastor and I have my own belief in God’s Word leave me alone.
Pastor Roy, I would listen for as long as I could politely, then probably excuse myself and go about my business. Much the same as I have done with regard to our interaction.
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Thomas1 01.06.10 AT 1:00 PM
NO you would answer that you are not my pastor and I have my own belief in God’s Word leave me alone.
Pastor Roy, I would listen for as long as I could politely, then probably excuse myself and go about my business. Much the same as I have done with regard to our interaction.
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You would still end up saying you are not my pastor and I have my own belief in God’s Word leave me alone.
Even as other have shown you, (not just me) that you have a views that in may aspect, has put you into direct conflict with God’s Word.
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Ok, egg on my face. I decided I should actually listen to the Youtube clip, and I totally had the wrong impression. Hume said “I would say to Tiger” before he suggested turning to Christ. It was clear he was giving his opinion to his audience about what Tiger needed, and wasn’t speaking/preaching to Tiger so to speak.
And I didn’t realize how brief the segment was. It was one of those “You’ve got 25 words then on to the next topic.” He didn’t have time to tell his own story, or really develop anything.
So I think what he said was perfectly fine. It was great.
So this is either a lesson in my own bad reading comprehension and/or prejudices, or maybe it shows the bias in the media accounts I had read of Hume’s statement, leading me to think it was more pontifical (needed spell check to get that word right), and presumptuous than it actually was.
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Just a couple of comments. I apologize in advance, but my internet system does not work very well with videos so I haven’t seen the clip. So I comment on some comments.
First of all, I don’t think that communicating the Gospel is to be left solely up to the “professionals”. In fact, I don’t even think someone has to be “ordained” or to have been to Bible school to be an effective preacher. Are not all believers commissioned? It’s very possible that the words of even the most simple of believers could be more effective at times than those of the trained.
Also, a case can always be made for wisdom in words, venue, and timing. However, apparently the Gospel was preached (and not only to Mr. Woods) and Fox News allowed it. As the Apostle Paul said,
“What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.” (Php 1:18)
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So, Thomas1 presumes that Brit Hume is presuming a privilege reserved for the Divine.
This reminds me of those who accused President Bush of claiming that God uniquely talks to him and is mandating him with a political mission simply because Bush admitted that he believes in prayer. Distortion is a political industry on the left.
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Irony – definition:
a. The use of words to express something different from and often opposite to their literal meaning.
b. An expression or utterance marked by a deliberate contrast between apparent and intended meaning.
c. the humorous or mildly sarcastic use of words to imply the opposite of what they normally mean
The use of “irony” when speaking of the the LORD Jesus Christ isn’t clever – As I said in #15 “the entire piece is garbled in contradiction” –
READ post #22 again, especially this quote from the beginning post of this thread:
The above piece coming from a Minister of an Orthodox Presbyterian Church ——– in my opinion it was an underhanded attack on a man (Brit Hume) for humbly giving his testimony to the power of GOD on national TV. There are many Episcopalian priests and pastors who have preached the Word of GOD ……. and then there are some who would question the respectability of these churches and men? I find that remark to be a sad commentary on the pretense of elitism, and the height of arrogance – it cannot be claimed as “irony” in any sort of genteel way.
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Hume said, “The Tiger Woods that emerges once the news value dies out of this scandal… depends on his faith.” (Fox News Sunday. January 3, 2010).
I agree. Unlike the vast majority of pundits, Hume sees a bigger picture than the one offered by popular secularism. For this bigger picture, he is being chided across the media landscape. No shock there.
But let’s consider sort of public statements that normally do NOT get excessively criticized in America:
* “The fundamental tenants of virtually every religion are the same.” Bill Clinton, replying to a question about returning our nation to godly principles, during his debate with Robert Dole (1996).
* “I retain from my childhood and my experiences growing up a suspicion of dogma. And I’m not somebody who is always comfortable with language that implies I’ve got a monopoly on the truth, or that my faith is automatically transferable to others.” Barack Obama, in an interview with Chicago Sun Times columnist Cathleen Falsani, March 27, 2004. He was asked about his “born again” experience under the guidance of his pastor Rev. Jeremiah Wright.
Clearly, Brit Hume is not running for a political office. If he was, he would have sounded more like this:
* “I believe that there are many paths to the same place, and that is a belief that there is a higher power, a belief that we are connected as a people.” Barack Obama, Falsani interview, March 27, 2004.
Or this:
* “Alongside my own deep personal faith, I am a follower, as well, of our civic religion.” Barack Obama, March 27, 2004.
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Brit Hume is not ashamed to say that Jesus Christ is the answer. Moreover, he knows it is not disrespectful to opine on the deficiencies of a particular religion. If any religion wants to go public, it must tolerate scrutiny. Islam desperately needs this tolerance. Christians must also accept it gracefully. So should Buddhists.
For the Buddhist, no one, not even a god, can free you from your karma (erase your past sins). This is the key difference between Christianity and Buddhism. I’m glad that Hume pointed it out. He did nothing to force Woods to do or believe anything. He simply expressed his opinion kindly and correctly.
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Joel Mark – can you image the reaction from the left if Hume attack the Christian faith.
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Joel Mark: your comment at 52 recalls the statement by the great Mahatma Ghandi.
I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
Amen to that. I happen to not think that Christianity has deficiencies, particularly since we’re still learning about it. (Some of us are, anyhow.)
Its practicioners? Some good, some bad. A lot of both are here.
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Victoria:
I think we get it. You don’t like irony. Or sarcasm.
Sadly, many folks in the world today do. Especially believers, who often cultivate it into a art form, hence DC’s post. Of course, you might be wise to avoid reading Jesus and Paul. They also used irony, or even sarcasm, at times. Sometimes, avoiding those verbal forms leaves you in a different crowd.
Hope this helps.
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Kennethos – 55
The world loves to confuse the words of the LORD Jesus Christ, trying to distort sin and its consequences. “Irony” has been used by liberals and those who wish to change the meaning of anything that interferes with their immoral life choices — likewise the words of Paul – in fact that is precisely how the homosexuals rule out the passages regarding homosexuality.
Jesus Christ was deliberate as to what sin is and the end thereof of anyone who didn’t repent and believe on HIM for Salvation. Paul was direct regarding homosexuality, he deliberately made it clear that there would be no eternal life for those who lived in sin.
When anyone who condemns another for speaking out against another man for sharing his faith, and then plays with words to confuse the situation …… it isn’t ‘irony’ its foolishness, and serves no purpose but to invite a dispute. The Bible doesn’t teach confusion.
In the same way, we as Born Again Believers should follow suit without “confusion” when sharing our faith.
Many an individual has become irate over the words of another such as Brit Hume who speaks the truth in love and gentleness about his Savior Jesus Christ…. this includes Believers who do not have the opportunity to say in just a few minutes to a national audience what the world needs to hear. Brit Hume took advantage of his pulpit and used it to glorify the LORD – yet others who claim Christ belittle him, and still others use “irony” to excuse such un-Christian behavior.
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D.C. Innes writes: Fox speaks their [Americans who call themselves Christian] language and reports from within their world. Anyone who wants reporting and opinion with the presupposition of a Godless universe has many alternatives on other channels.
I do not watch Fox News on TV, but I used to read the news on Foxnews.com. I really enjoyed the news coverage. But I found that what came alongside the news coverage — the racy celebrity gossip, sex advice column, near pornographic pictures, etc. — were becoming so prevalent that I couldn’t keep the webpage open for fear of what my teenage kids might be enticed by. So I stopped reading it altogether.
I think it quite ironic that FoxNews is here being commended for not being “Godless” when they are very much promoting the kind of garbage that helps people get caught in the kind of sin traps that Tiger Woods did….
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undeserving Kings kid – 57
You managed to run all over the FOX map, however leaving out what the discussion is all about. Does this somehow in your thought process, redeem the post that was made, which started the discussion?
Brit Hume was never in charge of the “the racy celebrity gossip, sex advice column, near pornographic pictures, etc.” as you described, what he did was tell about Jesus Christ his Savior – Certainly you understand the difference between a journalist, his remarks and what is thrown up on an internet website.
I’ve watched FOX News for years, I have yet to see porn in any form on FOX News – as far as the web page, I rarely go there unless I’m looking for a particular story.
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Victoria: If you go to the Fox website and check out the bottom half of the page, you will see that UKK has a very good point.
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Tychicus – 59
I’ve been to the site – as I posted to …. undeserving Kings kid:
“Brit Hume was never in charge of the “the racy celebrity gossip, sex advice column, near pornographic pictures, etc.” as you described, what he did was tell about Jesus Christ his Savior – Certainly you understand the difference between a journalist, his remarks and what is thrown up on an internet website.”
The POINT IS, this has nothing to do with Brit Hume or his testimony as to the power of Jesus Christ – Hume wasn’t in charge of whatever is put up on the website of FOX News –
This is not germane to the discussion but instead is being used to detract from what Innes stated in his post, and my remarks regarding that post.
How many excuses are some of the posters going to use to defend the opening post?
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Well, I for one don’t see any problems with the original post. I didn’t find it either confusing or offensive. Clearly the writer is on the side of Brit Hume, but writes with the “conventional wisdom” as though he was a bad, bad boy. It’s irony, but it works.
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Undeserving Kings Kid #57 – excellent point about Fox.
Cheryl D. – I agree it works. In fact, some of the best words in the Bible are irony. 1 Kings 18:27 comes to mind – It came about at noon, that Elijah mocked them and said, “Call out with a loud voice, for he is a god; either he is occupied or gone aside, or is on a journey, or perhaps he is asleep and needs to be awakened.
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Victoria #22 – The use of “irony” when speaking of the the LORD Jesus Christ isn’t clever.
Under any circumstances? Are you sure?
Plus, you need to look a little deeper than the surface and learn to make distinctions, even if they are subtle ones. He wasn’t “speaking of the LORD Jesus Christ” but of the intolerant atmosphere the prevails in the world of secular journalism.
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Buzzy 64, 65
Look back on post #50 –
The above verse does not contain “irony” – one would need to study this particular passage to understand what Elijah was saying –
Many of the people wavered in their judgment, and varied in their practice. Elijah called upon them to determine whether Jehovah or Baal was the self-existent, supreme God, the Creator, Governor, and Judge of the world, and to follow him alone. It is dangerous to halt between the service of God and the service of sin, the dominion of Christ and the dominion of our lusts. If Jesus be the only Saviour, let us cleave to him alone for every thing; if the Bible be the world of God, let us reverence and receive the whole of it, and submit our understanding to the Divine teaching it contains. Matthew Henry
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Governor, and Judge of the world, and to follow him alone. It is dangerous to halt between the service of God and the service of sin, the dominion of Christ and the dominion of our lusts. If Jesus be the only Saviour, let us cleave to him alone for every thing; if the Bible be the world of God, let us reverence and receive the whole of it, and submit our understanding to the Divine teaching it contains. Matthew Henry
–
I love Matthew Henry he get right down to issue at hand. Sin
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Pastor Roy – 67
You’re RIGHT – I learned from the beginimg as a small child from my father and mother that the Bible isn’t to be taken lightly – we were taught to respect the Word of God and to love the LORD.
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Does the writer of the piece know Brit Hume’s heart? Is this “irony” ? –
I don’t think Victoria would like knowing what the original text says in 1Ki 18.
Suffice it to say that Elijah was poking fun, suggesting that Baal might be away relieving himself and unable to attend to the challenge. Sometimes an ironic word picture communicates best.
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Victoria 01.06.10 AT 6:44 PM
Pastor Roy – 67
You’re RIGHT – I learned from the beginimg as a small child from my father and mother that the Bible isn’t to be taken lightly – we were taught to respect the Word of God and to love the LORD.
-
How can the world have respect for God’s Word when His people no longer have respect and in some case no longer believe in God’s Word to be true.
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Fisherman,
The 18th chapter of 1 Kings is incredible – Elijah challenges the prophets of Baal to a contest to determine who is really God. It has nothing to do with “irony” – The prophets numbered about 450 …. Elijah was a great match for this bunch of prophets.
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A god with a name, who must be doing various simple human things because he cannot do God things and is in fact no God at all. A god who isn’t one, what an … let’s see, what is a good word to describe that?
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Let me guess….. it must be the word of the day, as in bait and switch –
If that’s all you’ve been able to glean from 1 Kings 18 so be it!
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THomas1, it is clear that Mahatma Ghandi’s statement of blatant dislike for Christians was a cheap shot. I do not worship Ghandi, even if today’s left does. His statement was intellectually unfair.
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Eaton, #43,47
How refreshing to have one of us so freely and humbly admit a mistaken perspective. God bless you.
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Joel,
Mahatma Ghandi was a very self important man, but at the same time wanted the world to believe that he was self sacrificing in every way.
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Victoria, why don’t you get back to us when you’ve accomplished a fraction of what Ghandi did.
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Thomas1
Ghandi a man who believed in a religion which let children starve while cows were being fed. Ghandi worshipped cows, but let children go hungry. that’s no one I admire.
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I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.
Very revealing. He “liked” Christ, but did not love him. Someone who truly loves the Lord is also filled with love for his name, his word, his ways, and his people.
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Mahatma Ghandi’s statement (quoted by Thomas1) was not only a blatant expression of dislike for fellow human beings, but also a very judgmental statement–judging others in sweeping fashion.
Ghandi’s statement was overly bigoted against Christians as a group. It was not fair-minded.
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When Ghandi made the statement:
Ghandi should have looked within his own soul – how could anyone feed a cow and let a child starve? He certainly didn’t have the love of Christ in his heart.
The reason cultist refuse Christ is because they embrace themselves as the most important being – therefore they side-step the issue of love, kindness to even the smallest, as Ghandi did and would feed the cow, rather than the human child.
Look within our own country today – we see those who will take the life of a child rather than sacrifice (if that’s what you want to call it) 9 months to bring that little one into the world. Who does the mother worship? – it isn’t a cow as Ghandi worshipped, but instead it is her own comfort level, her priorities that take first place – That is the sacred cow which the abortionist serves, no different than Ghandi’s cows.
Those who do not know Christ as Savior or who have turned their back worship either themselves or a god which has no ears to hear, eyes to see or anything else that will save them from what is ahead.
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Isn’t it true that there are too many people who claim to be Christians who are not like Christ?
How does it help Christ’s reputation to attack the messengers of that verdict?
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Thomas (quoting Ghandi): “‘I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.’
“Amen to that.”
I confess that I am, in many ways, unlike Christ. Ghandi probably would look down his nose a bit at me, I would guess.
But my eyes aren’t on myself or other Christians, no matter how commendable or fallen they seem to be. My eyes are to stay on Jesus, on Christ alone and His righteousness covering me as I yet continue to pray for more obedience.
Knowing how weak and frail and miserable and prone to sin we are, where else are we to go? Tell me. Ghandi? I think not.
Interesting that Ghandi seemed to feel so satisfied in his own righteous compared to those “Christians.” ? I’m guessing that’s the case, from what’s been said, I’m not that familiar with him beyond some things I’ve read and, of course, the star-studded, openly fawning Hollywood movie from the early 1980s (which I recall seeing on New Year’s Eve of the year it was released).
But that only brings to mind Jesus’ story of the two men praying in the temple …. well, I’m sure you know the story. It probably bears re-reading, however, for all of us (and often).
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While I agree that our behavior as believers doesn’t alter in any way who Christ is, I can’t deny the validity of Ghandi’s statement. I don’t think the point is that we affect Christ’s “reputation”, but we perhaps do damage to those that would otherwise be drawn to Christianity. To me, it doesn’t matter if Ghandi or someone else made such a statement. Perhaps he did worship cows, but doesn’t everyone worship something? Regardless of this; he stated an opinion and there is a morsel of truth in it. In essence, as believers we are representative (ambassadors) of Christ and another country. We fall short many times, but that doesn’t absolve us of this responsibility.
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Hopesprings, you’re right to a point.
But if someone is going to watch Christians closely enough, they will see them fall short and even fall flat. Heaven forbid that I ever point to myself rather than to Christ.
We try to live faithfully. We hope that our lives speak the gospel. But if someone’s looking for a chink in that armor, surely they will find it. And too often I think that’s what criticisms like Ghandi are all about.
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It not only shows a lack of humility on Ghandi’s part — it shows a complete lack of understanding of the gospel itself.
Yes, we have changed lives. Yes, we are committed to trying to follow Christ more faithfully every day. Yes, we hope that shows to either a greater or lesser degree, depending on how good a day we may be having.
But every day I sin — in thought, word, deed and motives — and I’m sure that’s quite easy to catch if someone watches closely enough. So I need Christ as much as I ever did.
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I guess I’m just saying that we Christians, quite frankly, are easy targets, even when we’re on our “best” behavior. It’s simply an unfair shot.
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I’ve read with interest many of your comments;
Those who have ears to hear will listen to the Gospel of the most high and believe on Christ as their Savior and be saved.
We are “targets” as Donna points out, but Christ knew that from the beginning.
We aren’t the target, it is Jesus Christ – HE and HE alone is our Salvation. Satan knows who Jesus is, and he knows the saving power of Christ the LORD.
Those who speak ill of Christ the LORD hateth HIM, and hate GOD the Father as well.
We as Believers are weak sometimes, but in our weakness we are made strong through Christ our LORD.
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Yes, Donna #89, I guess we are easy targets at times and, biblically, this is not unexpected. The statement from Gandhi was an opinion which doesn’t necessarily guarantee that it’s always true, sometimes true, hardly ever true, or never true. However, the statement apparently echoed his experience with Christians, fair or not.
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Joel Mark: Mahatma Ghandi’s statement (quoted by Thomas1) was not only a blatant expression of dislike for fellow human beings, but also a very judgmental statement–judging others in sweeping fashion.
The only Christians Ghandi knew were the English soldiers and government officials who were, in a very un-Christlike manner, oppressing and brutalizing the Indian people. His statement was completely reasonable, considering that.
Between your indifference to history and Victoria’s inane inability to understand irony, this thread is depressing.
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Conan – The only Christians Ghandi knew were the English soldiers and government officials who were, in a very un-Christlike manner, oppressing and brutalizing the Indian people.
That’s a very interesting point, as it provides some context for the remark. I’ve talked to Muslims who say that non-American Muslims see all of the West as “Christianity,” so they see the pornography and the drunken revelers in England as embodying the Christian faith. I guess Ghandi, from his Indian vantagepoint, similarly conflated the West with true Christianity. It gives a whole new tenor to the quoted remark.
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Anyway does all this Ghandi stuff have anything to do with the original post? Actually, yes. As between Hume and Ghandi, only the former was able to point men and women broken by sin and guilt to the only place they can find forgiveness, redemption, and restoration.
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#92 “The only Christians Ghandi knew were the English soldiers and government officials who were, in a very un-Christlike manner, oppressing and brutalizing the Indian people.”
Gandhi went to university in England, and later practiced law in South Africa. It is unlikely that the only Christians Gandhi knew were soldiers and government officials. However, it is quite possible that the majority of the Christians he encountered were what we would call “cultural Christians.”
There is a well-known story from Gandhi’s life (I haven’t read a biography of him so I don’t know the source of the story), that at one point while he lived in South Africa he was seriously considering becoming a Christian. He decided to go to church to learn more. He was denied entrance, however, because the church was only for white people. It is said that after that he never seriously considered Christianity again, only the truths that he found (as he understood them) within Jesus’ teachings.
There is also an encounter he mentions with a (professed) Christian who tried to explain to him the benefits of redemption in Christianity comparied to Hinduism. Gandhi would have to always bear the consequences of his own sins, the Christian explained, while he as a Christian could benefit from Christ having borne the punishment of his sins instead of him. Gandhi commented that this man seemed perfectly content to continue sinning, knowing that his sins were taken care of.
It may well be that Gandhi did not know any Christians who would have been good examples of our faith. That’s not to say that they weren’t out there, but having been rebuffed at a church and knowing this one man referenced above, he probably didn’t try to find better examples.
And even if he had found better examples, he could well still have rejected Christianity because of its exclusive claims regarding Jesus and Truth, its doctrine of substitutionary atonement vs the concept of karma in Hinduism, etc. He may have sought out Christianity when he did thinking it was more similar to Hinduism.
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Thomas1 view on Ghandi, shows Thomas1 lack of understanding of God, His Son, His Holy Spirit, His Word and His people.
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Pauline: Thanks for the added history. This is a good example of why exclusionary religion (the kind that says ‘only those who believe what we beleve are right) is hard for me to understand. A man who grows up steeped in a different religious background, and sees only negative examples of Christianity, is much less likely to ever become Christian than someone born in a deeply Christian culture and brought up in it.
Interesting points about Hindusim. It’s older than Christianity, by a couple thousand years, and is widely considered to be the oldest still-living religion. How can you be so sure they’re wrong and you’re right?
There is also an encounter he mentions with a (professed) Christian who tried to explain to him the benefits of redemption in Christianity comparied to Hinduism. Gandhi would have to always bear the consequences of his own sins, the Christian explained, while he as a Christian could benefit from Christ having borne the punishment of his sins instead of him. Gandhi commented that this man seemed perfectly content to continue sinning, knowing that his sins were taken care of.
Which is a valid point. The whole Hume-Woods discussion has centered around the fact that Christianity offers what amounts to a get-out-of-jail-free card.
Why do we assume that’s better than having to take personal responsibility for your own wrongs?
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The “continue in sin that grace may abound” view that Gandhi apparently observed in this man is obviously not a good idea. While God is merciful, He is not mocked.
I think believers take personal responsibility for their wrongs/sins when they confess them. They agree with God. We refuse taking responsibility when we deny that we have sinned, whitewash that sin, or pass the buck.
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There will ALWAYS be people who claim they don’t believe in Christ because the Christians they’ve met don’t measure up to their standards of what a Christian to be. Keep in mind that there are countless people who claim to be Christians, but cannot define what that means. For that reason it is difficult for the un-Believer to see Christ when the person he’s looking at may not be a true Christian.
There are more than 30 million Christian Believers in India today, they believed because they look to Christ Jesus for Salvation.
BELOW is a very interesting excerpt from Ravi Zacharias.
We are in a Battle
by Ravi Zacharias International Ministries
AN UNCHANGEABLE GOSPEL
Secondly, hope is to be inseparable from death. As we talk about the hope for the university, as we talk about all of the possibilities, my plea is that we need to bear in mind that God not only wants us to proclaim the triumphs and the victory that He gives, but-and here’s what I want to say to you as candidly as I can-may we never forget the heart of the Gospel, which is the cross of Jesus Christ.
Mahatma Gandhi said it clearly; there were many things in the Vedas he wished he could remove. There were many things about the Christian faith he did not understand, said he, and some he did not like. But, he said, the most powerful truth in the Christian Gospel is unmatched anywhere else: It is the cross of Jesus Christ. Indeed, Martin Luther King, Jr., in one of the most colorful sermons he ever preached, marveled at the beauty of the Cross. If we forget that, we have forgotten the heart of the Gospel.
Some time ago, I was reading an article by a highly respected scholar at Oxford. He is the director of an interdisciplinary study of religion in relation to science. In what I must deplore, he pleaded with the church to change. “To be truly evangelical,” he wrote, “the church of the next millennium will need a theology that will necessarily have to be genuinely liberal and even radical, particularly in its relation to a worldview shaped by science. For Christian theology to have any viability, it may well have to be stripped down to the newly-conceived essentials, minimalist in its affirmations; only then will it attain that degree of verisimilitude with respect to ultimate realities which science has to natural ones, and only then can it command respect as a vehicle of public truth.”
I’ve got news for this scholar. What he wants is a Christianity that is evidently not Biblical. This alone tells you how they really view Biblical truth.
The Cross may still be foolishness at face value to the sophisticated academic. But may I say something? When I speak at an open forum in universities worldwide, the greatest silence in the audience comes in the last twenty minutes of two days of presentations, when I take them back to the Cross before taking them to the empty tomb. And as that Cross is expounded in the silence in the auditorium, the hearts of men and women are listening eagerly to this counter-perspective of Jesus Christ that stands so unique and so awesomely powerful.
Indeed, in all of our hope, let us not forget the death. The death on the Cross.
READ the REST: http://www.allchurch.org/ministries/index_1.shtml
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Jesus was God the Son, HE preached and taught everywhere before he was put to death on the cross – HE was a PERFECT man, yet NOT EVERYONE believed in HIM for their Salvation. People believe or disbelieve, it is not the person they encounter but their own hearts which defy GOD and his Son who is the only Savior of mankind ….. if only man will believe.
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Victoria I love Ravi Zacharias teachings
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Pastor Roy – my husband and I do as well.
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what I love about him he is able to take the word of God and explain it to the average man and those who are very smart at the same time
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SOME TIME AGO WHEN YOU SAID GOODBYE TO YOUR LISTENERS ON YOUR REGULAR FOX NEWS PROGRAM, YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU WERE GOING ON TO SERVE THE LORD. WE PICKED UP ON THIS STATEMENT THAT YOU WERE GOING TO DEDICATE YOUR TIME TO SHARING THE REDEMPTION OF CHRIST IN SOME WAY OR ANOTHER. WE WERE THRILLED TO HEAR THIS FOR SURE. NOW ON FOX NEWS YOU CAME OUT FULLY IN YOUR ENCOURAGING, NOT DEGRADING IN ANY WAY, TIGER WOODS WHO HAS BEEN A HERO TO COUNTLESS NUMBERS OF YOUNG PEOPLE ESPECIALLY. “LET YOUR LIGHT SO SHINE BEFORE MEN THAT THEY MAY SEE YOUR GOOD WORKS AND GLORIFY YOUR FATHER IN HEAVEN.” KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK, BRIT, FOR IT WILL, IN THE END, BEAR ETERNAL FRUIT. OUR PRAYERS ARE WITH YOU AND ESPECIALLY WITH TIGER WOODS. WE HAVE NO CONDEMNATION FOR HIM, ONLY LOVE AND PRAYERS. DR. ROBERT A. DOORN, OCALA, FLORIDA.
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It has been enlightening reading all the posts and how the discussion can go down a lot of rabbit trails – all interesting and I am new to this blogging business. Because so much in the email world is lacking in any agreed to protocol it tends to get very random and therefore loses the interest of those not involved directly in the engagement of the few. To try to bring some closure (maybe there shouldn’t be any) I ask the question: “In todays world should Christian principles be articulated by members of the News Media, such as Brit Hume has done, or should they be limited to only the organizations such as Churches where there is agreement amoung the listenors?”
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Brit is da man. He uttered the words that brings hisses from the dark side. Brit came equipped with a bright light and he turned it on….Way to go Mr. Hume
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TCHinrichs – 106
There is no reason for Brit Hume or anyone else to keep SILENT on Christ Jesus – We are free to speak about our Savior anywhere.
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I appreciate one commenter’s passion, but a very basic point is being missed in some of the above remarks: we see in the article simple sarcasm that is not reflective of the author’s true, personal opinion (except as a very strong criticism of the anti-Christian thought spewed against Hume). I read Ravi and a host of other apologetic writers (I’m a presuppositionalist myself), but this is the literary device of sarcasm, plain and simple.
For due diligence (um, that’s sarcasm too), I double checked the web address, and this is World Magazine(!) … not MSNBC.
If we love Ravi, please let’s think more like him.
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The last paragraph of the piece makes my above remark absolutely clear if words have meaning. To those who want to “believe” anything else, well, there’s nothing you can do to convince them otherwise.
But, again, please don’t appeal to Ravi in criticising this article. He would never do so … he would’ve read the last paragraph!
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As Believers we do love one another, just like Ravi Zacharias – however, as I stated in post #99 “There are more than 30 million Christian Believers in India today, they believed because they look to Christ Jesus for Salvation.” they didn’t look to Ravi Zacharias. There is a tendency to ‘pedestal’ a man, when in fact it is the LORD who should be upon that high place. God gives each of us gifts, just as he gave Ravi his, in the same way we as Believers should utilize the ones we have been given, and “think” as the HOLY Spirit leads us.
GCampbell, Ravi Zacharias loves the LORD, and so do millions of us who love the LORD – we all have a calling, I would not want to pattern my life after a man, but strive to be more like, think like, Jesus Christ — HE alone is our Savior.
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I teach middle school science in a Christian school. One of my eighth grade students golfs and holds second place for the state of California. One of the people he looks up to is Tiger Woods. When I heard the news that weekend, I could only think about what I would say to my student on Monday as I would be sure he had heard, too. So, with all that said, yay! Brit Hume! You said exactly what I said to my student – hopefully Tiger will find Jesus and the forgiveness of his sins. Maybe this is what the Lord will use to bring Tiger to faith. Thank you, Mr. Hume, for “not being ashamed of the gospel” where a sinner can “find grace to help in a time of need.”
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Starlelujah
Thanks for your post – I too hope Tiger will come to know Christ, his whole life would change – we can PRAY that this will happen.
Many a man or woman has sunk low and turned to Christ knowing that they have hit bottom – not necessarily financially, but deep within their soul, they know it’s empty, and it hurts.
God bless you,
Victoria
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My friend Victoria:
I respectfully pointed out the simple mistake you made in interpreting the article. With all due respect, and certainly with appreciation for your biblicism, you’ve also missed the point of my above remarks.
No one is claiming we shouldn’t think like Jesus. Of course we should. But we certainly can follow Ravi to a degree, just as Paul reminds us: “Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ.” I Cor. 11:1. You were the one who raised Ravi in appeal of your thoughtfulness but then discarded any good will that claim may have engendered by misreading the article and then repeatedly proclaiming that your misreading was accurate. Inconsistency in our Christian witness is not helpful to that witness. We should be accurate (always) and winsome (when at all possible).
Peace and grace to you.
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Tiger Woods does not need to become a Christian. He would not have done what he did had he been a good Buddhist, a religion that forbids adultery and teaches not becoming entangled with wealth and the other temptations of the world, just as much as Christianity does.
But now that he has, his own faith system can deal with it. Rather than praying and getting instant forgiveness, he’ll have to try to make amends, and where he can’t, take his lumps.
I’m not really clear on why Christians think that being able to believe yourself forgiven and go on as if nothing happened is a preferable arrangement.
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I don’t agree that I made a mistake – because you don’t agree with me, doesn’t make me wrong. I still hold to my original thoughts and belief throughout this thread.
You say I have missed the point of your remarks. I haven’t missed a thing, I simply disagree.
I enjoy many of Ravi’s messages, etc., however I don’t follow Ravi as I would Paul the Apostle.
“Winsome” ? – charming? – there was nothing within the beginning post that could be defined as charming or “winsome” – I find the use of that word to be disingenuous at best.
I don’t believe you are accurate, although you insist you are. It appears David Innes is a personal friend of yours, as you can’t imagine anyone disputing what he writes or how he expresses himself. I could be wrong, but maybe not.
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Hi Conanthelibrarian,
While I agree that if Tiger attempted to follow his religious beliefs, he may not have “fallen into the temptation” quite so easily. You are correct in that major world religions teach the same good tenets as what the Bible teaches.
What makes Christianity different from all other faiths, though, is that it says that no matter how hard we do attempt to do our best, in some way we will fail to meet up to our ideals. It’s kind of like coming very close to the bullseye, but never hitting it. Sin is missing the mark. Many of us come awfully close and are really “good, decent” people, but we never hit the mark.
While forgiveness, in a Biblical worldview, may come “instantly” the consequences of our sin have far reaching effects. There may still be those “lumps” or “ripples” for which we may or may not be able to make amends.
But what Christianity offers is the understanding that one need not walk around in fear that you have not “done enough” to make amends. Christianity says that you can’t “do enough.” That is why Jesus died on the cross. Yes, it is a free gift, (amazing grace), but it is not “cheap grace.”
Understanding God’s grace and mercy spurs us to further repentance. It’s kind of like when you are in a relationship and you love someone. You want to do the best of all things in order to please the person of our affection.
No, we do not go on “as if nothing happened.” As I stated above, the far-reaching effects (unintended consequences) of our sin remind us all too often of our past transgressions. We pray that we have the strength not to make the same mistakes. I hope that helps give you a better understanding of the hope and peace that is so graciously offered to all through Jesus’ death and resurrection.
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Starlelujah: Yeah, I understand all that. But still the assumption Hume made is that Christianity is better because it has redemption. Buddhism doesn’t have a redemptive plan, but it also doesn’t have the same beliefs about sin as Christianity.
In Buddhism, what might be called “sin” is our own failings. Buddhists don’t have a belief of “Original Sin,” or hell, or a God who keeps records and offers either forgiveness or punishment. It doesn’t need a plan of redemption, because it doesn’t have anything to be redeemed from, or anyone to be redeemed by/for.
In case you don’t know, I’m a Unitarian Universalist. My personal belief is that all human religions are man-made expressions of a transcendence that’s beyond our comprehension. Because of that, I think people should follow the religion that they feel best addresses their spiritual needs, because the reality is beyond the symbols, stories and rituals of all of them. People don’t need to convert from one to another, they just need to try to become better and better practitioners of the one they’re in.
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Conan,
If all religions are the same, and it’s simply “try to become better and better practioner of the one they’re in” is the practice of sacrificing people as in Liberia, the Sub Sahara desert, India and Chile among other places permissible?
What about the actual fighting between Sunni Taliban vs. Shiites pre-Soviet invasion?
Does “try to become a better practioner”, still apply?
Secondly, What is good? Who is the arbitrator of good? It would have to be YOU if in your view all are the same.
If so, then “I” can also deem what my action is in that religion and deem it “better” can’t I?
If so, Hitler would certainly seem to be right wouldn’t he? Since he was the arbitrator of his religious experience, and he deemed that ridding the world of lesser religions was ‘better’ and to become a ‘better practioner’.
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LewR2: If all religions are the same
Not what I said.
If all religions are the same, and it’s simply “try to become better and better practioner of the one they’re in” is the practice of sacrificing people as in Liberia, the Sub Sahara desert, India and Chile among other places permissible?
What about the actual fighting between Sunni Taliban vs. Shiites pre-Soviet invasion?
I was speaking in general terms about Hume’s belief that Woods needs to convert. I was not attempting an exhaustive survey of all religious practices around the world. In saying that people need to be come better practitioners of their own religious beliefs rather than converting to another person’s, I was assuming that the beliefs are not calling for human sacrifice or other violent things. We’re talking about Buddhism and Christianity, both of which urge peace.
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“People don’t need to convert from one to another, they just need to try to become better and better practitioners of the one they’re in. ”
Does it matter what you or I are assuming? If your statement above is to be taken at face value, then why aren’t the examples given true?
You can’t on the one hand say everything is equal except for this one. Either they’re equal, or they’re not. If I can make up my own religion and believe it’s true, why can’t Hitler, cannibals or anyone else?
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UU’s typical draw from many types of religions even paganism. The UU church in a nearby town draws on wicca/paganism. How can you know which ‘god’ you are trying to be better with? They don’t believe in the same god.
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I guess there is only one more thought that comes to mind when I think about the above article. I have heard it said that when someone attempts to tell another about Jesus, it is like one beggar telling another where to get bread. Brit Hume stated what he thinks is the most compassionate offer: In case this person, (Tiger), is “hungry” let me share with him where to find the Bread of Life.
Yes, we all must choose an overarching worldview. What metanarrative totally permeates our way of thinking and how we choose to live out our lives? What is the story that brings meaning and purpose to our lives? From where do we come and to where will we go?
And even beyond that, I think it is a matter of truth. Who do you say that Jesus is? Is He really the Lord, or was He simply a misguided lunatic, or an outright liar? He certainly made some serious claims about Himself.
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Conan,
Redemptive … yes, because you can’t make you any better as far as God is concerned. We’re all sinners. We all come short of the glory of God. God is perfect and can’t allow imperfection in without a sacrifice. Even the UU webpage speaks about Christ.
“The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Mt. 13:40&41.
If God is the only arbitrator of sin, then how can Jesus say this? He HAS to be God incarnate.
Christ also said. I am the way, the truth and the light. Nobody goes to the Father except BY me.
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life” (John 3:16)
It’s about a relationship with Christ that is redemptive and will free you. It’s not in trying to be a better person because Christ has made you the better person. Walk with him and do His Will. If so, He will make you what He wants.
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