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Good morning, good morning.
On this day in 1969: The Beatles performed an unannounced concert—the band’s last as a group—atop the Apple building in London.
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back to top234 Comments to “Whirled Views 01.30”
Never liked the Beatles and I really hated the Beach Boys, especially after working for an Oldies radio station where the program director loved them. Hubby worked his way through college as a Country music DJ. He says he snapped one night and now when he hears country music it all just sounds like white noise.
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Apparently last night turned into Bible Drill time at WMB. I’ll add my own little nugget. Song of Solomon 8:6 Set me as a seal upon thine heart, as a seal upon thine arm: for love is strong as death; jealousy is cruel as the grave: the coals thereof are coals of fire, which hath a most vehement flame.
I always pull out the part about love is strong as death. I first found this verse in 1983 as my beloved “Little PawPaw” lay dying from cancer. Somehow in my young brain it meant I would lose him but I could go on loving him. My grandmother, in the one act of kindness I can remember allowed that verse to be put on his grave marker…from me. Fast forward 25 years and Pastor used the same verse for me when I lost my father to cancer and he also used the passage out of Isaiah about the “feast in heaven”.
I keep repeating that they will know we are Christians by our love. John 13: 34 &35, which says, ”A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” John 13: 34 &35, which says, ”A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”
There is a passage in Matthew or Mark (can’t remember) that calls all believers ever after to be disciples for Christ and to go out and make disciples.
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There is some sort of glitch between WMB and my computer where I can only see part of what I am typing. Sorry about that.
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My son was a big Beetles fan. He and his friend, Paul started playing guitars when they were around seven. They hauled speakers between our houses when it took both of them to carry it.
When they graduated from high school in 1976, they started a band. They were going to be multi-millionaire rock stars before they were 21. Elvers said, “That’s fine, but study your math.” They had several gigs, but never made any money. After a year, Chuck enrolled in Northern Virginia Community Coll., but they kept the band. When he graduated from NVCC, he gave it up and went to USC-Columbia.
In 1982 he became a chemical engineer, and hasn’t played guitar in years. But a couple of weeks ago, he started practicing again.
He is in Northern Virginia this weekend. The band is getting together for a gig tonight at a place called “Fat Tuesday”. I have no idea what that is, but he is excited about it.
Elvera said, “Maybe you’ll be a rock star yet.”
He said, “He didn’t know of any 51 year old rock stars.” He’s keeping his day job.
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I have now finished 30 days of the 90 days of reading through the Bible. We are in 1 Chronicles. David said, “Give thanks to the LORD, for he is good; his love endures forever.” 1 Chronicles 16:34
To that I say Amen.
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Kim, I think that was read at my wedding, but I was so nervous it was all kind of a blur.
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Kim, I too scanned the postings from yesterday evening. It seems the kernel of the argument is whether Thomas and Steve are Christians. (I could be mistaken, as I said, I just scanned.)
My policy is that when someone says, “I trust in Jesus Christ as my Lord and saviour.” I believe him, and accept him as a brother/sister in Christ. Even though I have serious theological differences. In Acts 2:37, the people said, “What shall we do?” Peter said, “Repent and be baptised every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ….”
In Romans 10:9, Paul said, “If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thing heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”
That’s all it takes.
I have discussed spiritual issues many times over the years. When someone says, “I trust Jesus Christ as my savior.” I believe him and count him as a brother. Even though I disagree about many points.
I have talked with Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons. When one of them say, “I rely only on Jesus Christ and his saving grace”, I accept them as brothers, But we can still disagree about many things.
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But when one disagrees with a SteveG or a Thomas1 who are also propounding the liberal political agenda that has literally nothing to do with the Bible, are you really discussing theological differences? What I see are two people who have chosen the world, American politics, and are seeking to force Christianity into that mold.
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I often think of taking on something such as you have done, but I fizzle sometime about the end of week two. Congratulations!
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Gotta admit; former Beatles and Beach Boys fan here.
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Beach Boys? Really? You can listen to that high pitched stuff?
I’ll admit to knowing all the Beatle songs. It’s amazing how much of that can be accessed when I hear it in the supermarket now. Whoever would have thought that the Beatle songs would be played as shopping music?
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It kind of went with growing up in CA, I guess. I still can listen to and enjoy the Beach Boys.
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Wish they all could be California girls . . . like Hopesprings, Adios and me!
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If you haven’t seen it already, I urge you to watch the House Republican Q&A with Obama. It’s perhaps the most interesting bit of political TV I’ve ever seen.
http://rawstory.com/2010/01/obama-spars-gop-debate/
I looked for this video on conservative leaning news sites, but alas, I couldn’t find any that thought this was worthy of featuring. As a matter of fact, Fox news, alone among the networks, cut away from the live feed early, and Republican staffers said they regret allowing cameras.
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Amen Michelle
Growing up surfing, the Beach Boys just hit the Good Vibrations. It was musiclite, but sometimes you just want a good beat. And their high notes weren’t any higher than the laddies singing the Psalms at St. Pauls.
But when I tired of falsetto and wanted to hear a real man sing it was George Strait all the way. Like Barbara Mandrell (who went to the next high school over in CA) I was country when country wasn’t cool.
Yet, still a Beatles fan.
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kWatson: It was all over the media, including Foxnews, yesterday. I seriously doubt if you really looked anywhere. I saw it on every political site I looked.
From what I saw, Obama just did an angry monologue. It was followed up by some questions from a few Republicans which he answered angrily and disrespectfully. That follows on his bizarre attack on the Separation of Powers principle in the SOTU address. All scripted for a Marxist-Leninist who rejects both the Constitution and any opposistion to the State.
There was no listening, as usual. Just lecturing and threatening.
What is to see?
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The chickens are coming home to roost in our relationship with Red China.
Red China is now threatening to withhold technology/products vital to our military/defense unless we let them have their way with Taiwan.
This is because, whether you know it or not, it is not just our economy which is dependent on China – our entire military infrastructure is as well.
Basically, they hold a gun to our head – and it is gun that we loaded ourselves, cocked, and handed to them.
This is a disaster spanning many years and many administrations.
It will be one our children and grand-children may well curse us for.
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This article from Fox:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,584341,00.html?test=latestnews
The last sentence, a quote from Andy Napolitano about the issue in Canada being political because the government control of health care is telling. This is why it must be defeated here.
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Ah, the Beatles & Beach Boys, classics. Hearing those waves crashing on the shore, the sun shining down, while listening to “Surfin’ USA” on your little transistor radio …. Those were the days.
KBells, Kbells, what can I say?
Chas (in #7), good points — having made a (rather brief and ultimately unsatisfying) pass through liberal Christianity myself many years ago, I take people at their word if they say they’ve called on the name of the Lord and trust in Jesus.
That’s all the understanding that’s needed in the beginning (thankfully) — or theoretically ever. That doesn’t mean there’s good doctrine to be pursued from mining and being open to the Scriptures, but faith in Christ is, at its root, simple, purely a gift from God and not of our own doing.
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Look, I still have my Beach Boy records, but that high pitched sound….Neverthless, I can sing along with the Beach Boys, too. (Remember, we have a shore here in Jersey, too.)
“but faith in Christ is, at its root, simple, purely a gift from God and not of our own doing.”
Yes, this is absolutely true, which is why I fail to comprehend how any Christian seeks to make the US Constitution a book of the Bible.
Drill, you speak wisdom on China.
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NJLawyer: It’s a California thing.
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Drill, we gave/sold them the technology to do it.
Everyone, especially our leaders, should read Unrestricted Warfare, China’s master plan to destroy America by Col. Qiao Liang and Col. Wang Xiangsui. This is an important book. I heard it referenced once in a congressional investigation on C-Span. Scary stuff.
An interesting comment on p. 107:
“Even though the United States bears the brunt of being faced with the threat of this type of non-military war and has been the injured party time after time, yet what is surprising is that such a large nation unexpectedly does not have a unified strategy and command structure to deal with the threat. What makes one even more so wonder whether to laugh or cry is that unexpectedly they have 49 departments and offices responsible for anti-terrorist activities, but there is very little coordination and cooperation among them. ….”
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And we have an administration that thinks terrorists are criminals.
Even G.W. Bush wanted to “bring them to justice.”
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Thank you God for my new computer. Thanks every one for a great debate yesterday.
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Kim @2&3- It is good to remember good things about our ancestors. Glad you have those memories of your grandparents.
As for this: There is some sort of glitch between WMB and my computer where I can only see part of what I am typing. Sorry about that.
You must be using Internet Explorer. For some reason, the typing box will not show the lower parts of long posts. Try typing in a word processor first, then copy and paste into the box.
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That’s okay Donna, most people consider me a musical philistine because I like Celine Dion. Even worse there are a couple of American Idol winners that I like.
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Chas @#7-I have talked with Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons. When one of them say, “I rely only on Jesus Christ and his saving grace”, I accept them as brothers, But we can still disagree about many things.
I agreed with you up to that point. Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses have a totally different view of who God and Jesus are. Mormons say we are all gods and will be like God eventually. Jesus was just one of us. JWs do not believe that Jesus was God in the flesh, that he was just another man, so they cannot be Christians. I do not believe a person can “rely only on Jesus Christ and his saving grace” and remain in the Mormon or JW cults, especially those who are proselytizing.
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RE: Beatles and Beach Boys.
Having had a sister who was 7 years older and a Beatlemaniac, I grew up listening to them and liking them. But the later stuff, when drugs and Eastern religious themes entered ruined them for me. I have never liked the beach/surfer music. I like the close harmonies, but not the songs. I like close harmonies so much, that Crosby, Stills and Nash (and Young) are one of my favorite groups.
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NJLawyer: But when one disagrees with a SteveG or a Thomas1 who are also propounding the liberal political agenda that has literally nothing to do with the Bible, are you really discussing theological differences? What I see are two people who have chosen the world, American politics, and are seeking to force Christianity into that mold.
The conservative political agenda has nothing to do with the Bible either, but you and other propound it all over the place. But that’s ok, I guess, since World’s slogan is “World News, Politically Conservative Views” … oh wait, it’s not.
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But Peter, I think it’s possible for individual Mormons and JWs to be saved — despite what their churches, which are clearly in major error, are teaching them.
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Now sometimes they’ll use terminology that they understand quite differently than we do, so that’s a problem in taking a statement at face value and just assuming they ARE saved.
But a person’s church membership doesn’t rule them automatically out of the kingdom and we can never know another’s heart, one way or the other for that matter.
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Drill
You made two claims 1)Darwinism (whatever that is) is part of the ideological origins of Communism 2)Fascism is the same as Communism.
I replied that 1)Communism is materialistic version of the Hegelian dialectic and Social Darwinism was actively promoted by free market ideologues in the late 19thC. Survival of the fittest has more in common with capitalism with its call to individualism than the collectivism of the left. 2) I didn’t address this claim in the normal in-depth manner I have done in the past simply because you have read my objections in the past and have yet to respond. However, in the case of the Nazis, I did ask you to look at the origins of the party, the decline of Strasserism, the change in direction under Hitler, the culture conservatism (a fascist trait) of the party, and the cooperation between the industrialist, the Prussian military class and the Nazis. You might look at the parliamentary history of the Wiemar republic in which the Nazis allied with right wing parties against the Communists and Social Democrats. Now I can go into ideological origins and differences but you have yet to answer the above.
Now you cited a Wikipedia article. And you are right Wikipedia can be a helpful site if the article is properly written and sourced. Your particular article has no citations yet has a number of claims. Furthermore, other than the portion you quote, Social Darwinism is not mentioned but instead there is a focus on dialectic materialism.
As for equating Communism and Fascism I have yet to see any evidence to back this proposition.
Of course this isn’t very helpful nor a demonstration of any evidence just rhetorical excess.
(or more precisely the malarkey planted in the unquestioning, undiscerning soil of your brain by a generation of lying politicos who are themselves responsible for the deaths of hundreds of millions of people through their blind faith in a failed idealogy – a torch you now so proudly – and stupidly – carry forward).
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Ezekiel 18:1-9 )
The word of the LORD came to me again, saying, “What do you mean when you use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying:
‘ The fathers have eaten sour grapes,
And the children’s teeth are set on edge’?
“As I live,” says the Lord GOD, “you shall no longer use this proverb in Israel.
“ Behold, all souls are Mine;
The soul of the father
As well as the soul of the son is Mine;
The soul who sins shall die.
But if a man is just
And does what is lawful and right;
If he has not eaten on the mountains,
Nor lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel,
Nor defiled his neighbor’s wife,
Nor approached a woman during her impurity;
If he has not oppressed anyone,
But has restored to the debtor his pledge;
Has robbed no one by violence,
But has given his bread to the hungry
And covered the naked with clothing;
If he has not exacted usury
Nor taken any increase,
But has withdrawn his hand from iniquity
And executed true judgment between man and man;
If he has walked in My statutes
And kept My judgments faithfully—
He is just;
He shall surely live!”
Says the Lord GOD.
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Chas, I am glad your son has picked up his guitar again. We have so much fun at music jams. It is a great way to meet people and bring enjoyment to others. It is something most people can do for many, many years. I know many retirees who have this as their social outlet. Some play for nursing homes, churches or just community jams. It is a great hobby and if it is a gift, it is good to develope it again.
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I am listening to the Obama – Republican exchange. I wonder how a Bush – Democratic exchange would’ve looked. Neither group however would last a day in the English parliamentary system.
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Re 17:
As a DoD civilian who see a lot of this stuff up front, I have to fully agree with Drill on our dependence of foreign sources for many items and materials (I can’t speak to any Chinese threats). There are huge number of critical materials that we have no domestic source for and depend on either Europe or China. In other cases we have no supply at all and are simply depleting stock piles with no real plan of what to do when we run out. Its really scary, and what is scarier is that I think its true for the DoE as well. The problem gets worse every year. I’ve actually given some thought to getting the public releases needed to put together an editorial/commentary piece to publish with more details. The info is out there in the open literature if anyone wants to do some digging though.
I see three main causes (roughly in order):
1) A general result of seeing manufacturing move overseas, mainly as a result of OSHA/EPA regulations.
2) A really screwed up defense acquisition system in which congress directs huge amounts of money to their favorite businesses rather than what is really needed. In particular this a) gives money to some companies that are generally incompetent and b) rewards the development of high tech systems (which often promise more they deliver) while grosses neglecting mundane but essential items.
3) I tremendous degree of incompetence inside the DoD. At least within the civilian side, there is huge leadership vacuum, the managers we do have gross overstep there areas of expertise, and the military officers we deal with tend to always be one who, for one reason or another, were judge unable to lead troops in the field.
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“Neither group however would last a day in the English parliamentary system.”
I said the same thing when the Democrats went all in a tissy over the “you lie” incident.
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Peter, #28, all I’m saying is that the discussion is over. I may have an opinion, but fortunately, I do not have the authority to condemn anyone.
As with previous threads on eschatology, we can have serious differences over theological issues. i.e. I don’t see any scriptural support for universalism, but that belief isn’t a qualification for salvation.
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Chas,
I don’t really think that was the point of the discussion though people threw that in there. It was more on when and where people should be preaching, and to whom.
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Chas, the question that must be asked do they believe in Jesus of the Bible or the jesus taught by the Mormons and JWs.
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18
NJL — Ontario practice is to have parental consent for any medical procedure. As for “pulling the plug” hospitals usually have an ethics team that discuss these cases. Thus I’m not sure what to make of the Alberta case. My perception is that the hospital is following its own protocol and the gov’t health agency is not involved. The gov’t insurance pays but makes no medical decisions — that’s left to the medical experts. Again, Alberta and Ontario may have differences in practice as health care is a provincial response. Traditionally Alberta’s practise has been to be closer to free market economics.
I do wonder if this had occurred in the US, what influence would the private health insurance company have in the decision making process.
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#37 but note Kbells saying “you lie” in the English parliament is grounds for removal from the house by the Sargent at arms. Also note the throne speech is not to be interrupted by either applause or disrespectful noise.
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I worked for many years for a Catholic organization, most of my family is pentecostal, Hubby is still officially CEC, my grandmother was Methodist and the kid attended kindergarten at a Methodist church. I’m Baptist. If were to name the 10 holiest people I know there would be at least one from each of these groups. If I were to have a theological discussion with each of those 10 people there would probably be something I disagreed with them about.
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Peter L,
Love CSN&Y. We sort of grew beyond the Beach Boys and into them.
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Pastor Roy, the truth is that there are people who love God in churchers that teach wrong things. These people are known by God and he goes too and fro in the earth to strengthen them. People are not as simplistic as we want to think. They often are in churches, but don’t understand all the theology of their church.
I had a neighbor who was currently a Mormon after leaving the Catholic church. She came to our neighborhood bible study, which was basic Christian teaching. We never had a problem studying whatever we were studying.
At a different time, we did have some discussions on some of the other beliefs of Mormonism and she knew where I stood. She and I still could both listen to the word together, study it and learn from it. God alone knows where we each need deeper learning and teaching. If if came to a critique of our church’s doctrines, that is a whole other discussion.
Many people may be saved, but have very little enjoyment in their relationship to Christ, because they are not well-grounded and are ignorant of his word. They also may not bear much fruit.
Speaking the truth in love is not easy. Jesus gives us some good examples. The woman at the well is one.
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Drill,
Did you actually watch the Q&A in it’s entirety, either with the link I provided, or by some other means? I know the story has been reported all over the place, but conservative sites seem to be avoiding showing the actual session in it’s entirety. I get the impression that you don’t think it would be worth watching. What are you, afraid? If you can put aside what conservative commentors have told you to think for a few moments, and use your own brain to evaluate what happened, perhaps you can overcome your penchant for shrill ridiculous accusations.
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KWatson, so how about giving a summary for those of us who have no way to watch anything with sound on our computers? Or, are you going to limit your own comments to “shrill ridiculous accusations”?
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I watched the meeting between the Pres. and the Republicans. It was interesting. I had a hard time hearing the questions on the link, but not when I was watching. I hope both sides learned something. I have a hard time with the President, because it seems to me that sometimes it is like hearing a discussion of what the word ‘is’ means.
At this meeting I heard him parse the words I heard him say in his State of the Union address. This parsing happens on both sides of the aisle, of course, during the battles that go on and especially during elections. It is disappointing to have to have a lawyer by one’s side, just to decipher what the President is ‘really’ saying.
I have no idea who ‘won’ the discussion. I am sure both sides can come up with numerous sound bites.
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Cheryl et al
I listened to most of the Q & A but it would be hard to give a summary. I may be biased but Obama did come off slightly better. For me it was the manner in which the Republicans expected everyone of their ideas to not only be considered but accepted. There seems to be a huge assumption of entitlement or more negatively a childlike whine about why nobody listens to me.
Obama’s best point was his critique of Republican rhetoric. Making his administration sound like a “Bolshevik plot” leaves the Republicans very little room to compromise and negotiate. For any type of compromise would make them party to the Bolshevik plot.
When Obama described his policies the response indicated that many people actually believed their own rhetoric that he is a Bolshevik. This may be indicative of the Republican poltical spectrum but it leaves them very little room to maneuver if they wish to have a voice.
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Cheryl D,
Not to mix the themes here, but read they lyrics to “We Can Work it Out” by the Beatles and you have a pretty good summary of Obama’s attempt at “bi-partisanship.” In the song Paul basically says life’s too short for fussy and fighting so as soon as you quit seeing things your way and see it mine life will be good for me again.
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Cheryl D,
I wanted conservatives to see it for themselves and make up their own minds. It’s well over an hour long. A few comments by me or edited clips online will fail to provide any sort of context. I will say that it was a truly remarkable piece of political theater, and if you get a chance, it’s well worth watching. I would love to see meetings like this done every few months.
Thanks for watching KI. I found the audio to get much better a few min in.
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Cheryl: The video AND a full transcript are here.
Watching it is better, but since you can’t, give the transcript a try.
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And please note that Obama did a 70-minute Q&A with no teleprompter, which should (but won’t) put an end that bit of silliness.
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Thanks, Steve G, I actually was wondering if there was a transcript anywhere. I used to be able to watch video at the library, but they recently stopped providing headphones. I don’t have speakers hooked up to my own computer. (In the office it drove me nuts that some websites and other sources talk to you–I don’t want my computer talking to me–so I chose not to hook them up, on purpose. I also only got DSL working in the last month.)
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After much soul searching and prayer time with my Lord. I have come to the conclusion that I must find a Christian web site that srictly conforms to sharing the Word o God and how it effects ones life.
The anti-Christ spirit that is so much a part of WMB vexes my soul, and there is still enough of a human nature in me that I often react in a way that is not always in Christ’s best interest, nor mine.
I must, as much as possible avoid, interacting with evil.
May God’s blessings be upon all who believe.
See you in heaven.
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Roger, I completely understand and wish you well. See you then.
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Roger, I wonder how you think Jesus could interact with the sinners of his day and yet you cannot. I am not sure who else he could interact with, but I know scripture clearly says he was with those the Pharisees etc. saw as sinners.
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God’s blessings to you, too, Roger.
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Roger, you have been a big encouragement to the believers here. Sorry to see you go, you add a reminder of Who we serve. But I understand your reasonings, just don’t agree with it.
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roger, I am in the same boat you are in. The anti-Christ spirit is very much alive here. It sadden me and breaks heart. I am praying about if I should stay on this board or find another Christian site.
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KI – Jesus would tell the churches who are promoting sin to repent. He would call His people to a deep relationship with Him.
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Roger, I don’t agree either, and haven’t seen you lower yourself in such a way (but I might have missed something somewhere)–but if you feel God’s leading on something, it really doesn’t matter if we agree. Blessings.
Steve G., I hope you took a look at the misspelled tattoos on that site while you were there–if not, go back and do so. I read the transcript; thank you for the link.
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We know a lot of what Jesus did say to people. We know they flocked to him. We know they also killed him. He spoke to each as they needed to be spoken to. I have no objection to anyone doing that here.
I do not agree that I have to so isolate myself that I cannot be around those who do not agree with me.
We each are accountable to God, however, and I will never insist anyone stay or go on here. That is between them and God.
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You’re right NJL, that has become more apparent every day.
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If you detect an anti-Christ spirit here, you will find it anywhere you go. A satanic spirit will intrude into any gathering. On this blog you get to interact with whomoever you choose. You learn of situations and people to pray for, and confidence that you have their prayers when needed.
You can’t run away from Satan.
You can deliberately go to sites where he is welcome, but you must admit this is not one of them. If you aren’t happy here, I doubt that you will be happy anywhere.
If you find a site like that, drop in and let us know.
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I wonder how those missionaries survived who went out into cultures far, far worse than ours? God does not call everyone to that or to be on a site like this, but I have to agree with you, Chas.
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Victoria, NJL – 8 – An thats what gets me in trouble.
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Chas the issue I believe for Roger and for me for the most part. Is how do people address anti-Christ spirit here.
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Roger what you post is true. The rhetoric has become louder as the days go by, as though pronouncing evil as good over and over again will change the sin – it has persuaded no one who is studied in the Word of GOD – using contrived methods, pretending to know the Bible when in fact it is obvious they are unlearned OR are defiant aganist GOD, defending sin as if it were a golden idol. The sin they defend is their idol, if it weren’t they wouldn’t be here defending it on every occasion.
Many an individual has chosen either for themselves, or they don’t give a hoot whether their friends are involved either, in sins which are BOLDLY spoken of in the New Testament – but instead feebly argue for sin.
We cannot avoid evil people, they are all around us in our daily lives. What we CAN DO, when it becomes clear they are not interested in, nor do they care one hoot about what the Bible says; we can avoid them, and lessen our contact with them.
Jesus was clear while on earth regarding the continuation of interacting, or being with those who are bent on evil, who aren’t interested in truth – they play games and as Roger pointed out, the vex the spirit. There is no reason to continue with someone who does this. Here is the answer, which TOO MANY OF US ignore on a regular basis, that includes ME.
We forget this passage all to often – Remember Jesus did not run down the road after those who wouldn’t listen or believe what HE told them, and the Apostles didn’t either — we should follow Christ.
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Roy 68,
That is what a lot of us get to practice on here. Some learn quickly, some slowly, and some never.
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Victoria, I haven’t seen (recently, anyway) very many people posting on this blog who are “bent on evil.” I’m not sure such an assumption is the best way to engage anyone. I also think some of the Christian posters are some of the worst in terms of how they speak to others, which is quite unfortunate.
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mumsee, I present this idea yesterday
1. Discipleship is the hardest thing to do. The reason is, it deals directly with our views, values and ideas. It is where Biblical /Christian Views, values and ideas come into conflict with our views, values and ideas. It is where many people abounding the Christian Faith to embrace sin. If a Church or a group is teaching views, values and ideas that are NOT found in God’s Word. Conflict will happen, when the person comes into contact with Christian, who are routed in Biblical /Christian Views, values and ideas.
The conflict that is happen here is over the issue of Biblical /Christian Views, values and ideas which are conflict with certain people our views, values and ideas. Which they have been taught by a group who have rejected Biblical /Christian Views, values and ideas so as to support society on issues.
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missed a word
The conflict that is happen here is over the issue of Biblical /Christian Views, values and ideas which are IN conflict with certain people views, values and ideas. Which they have been taught by a group who have rejected Biblical /Christian Views, values and ideas so as to support society on issues.
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Those who take a haphazard approach to the Bible, reading the New Testament, continuing to argue that sin which is BOLDLY spoken against in the New Testament are arguing for sin, and its death which follows an unrepentant heart.
Paul spoke BOLDLY about Christ Jesus and the Gospel, he was no weak kneed ambassador for his LORD. Christians today can and do speak boldly. I believe most all the strong Christians on this blog speak boldly for the LORD, and boldly against sin.
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Roy at 68,
“Chas the issue I believe for Roger and for me for the most part. Is how do people address anti-Christ spirit here.”
There are alot of ways. Some ignore it, some skip the posters that do it, some confront it and call it what it is. The problem with confronting it is that it requires a certain callousness, not minding offending the PC sensibilities of folks, and sometimes coming off as harsh, to offenders and believers alike. I know because it’s the way I am, and I know some of the folks here don’t like my style at all. I’m OK with that, I probably shouldn’t be, but there it is. Some people prefer that whole “catch more with honey” loving approach to things. I prefer taking the fly swatter to ‘em. Someone of your demeanor and pastoral position should probably ignore it or skip the posters. I enjoy your posts, and don’t think it’s your style. That’s not a bad thing either, in fact, it’s a compliment. If you choose to confront it the best method is to speak truth to the offender, and then let it go. If you continue the back and forth over it, you run the risk of feeding and encouraging it. If you refute them once, it will be noticed by the other posters, and they will make a decision over who’s correct. And if you’re coming at it with your Biblical worlview and Gods word behind it, the decision of who’s correct is easily seen by others. That’s good enough. Then let it go, if possible. Otherwise just ignore them. I hope that you and Roger both stick around, and continue to be yourselves. Just my 2 cents.
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CCC,
I AGREE and hope both these men (Pastor Roy and Roger) stay on the blog.
I don’t find your ’style’ offensive at all – one need only read Paul’s writings, he was bold, and spoke boldly for the LORD and the Gospel.
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Sorry – POST 77 was to The real Aj #76
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HRW: My apologies, then, on the ’stupid’ word in regards to the torch you are carrying in regards to Statism, if you took that personally.
I assume you are very intelligent; however I have seen plenty of intelligent people co-opted by nonsense – stupidly, in my opinion, or wrong causes in my time – on all sides of the spectrum and on many issues, including religion, but never so evident as that worshipful respect and following given to the idealogy that has given us the worst genocides in human history.
You claim that Darwinism and Communism (especially Soviet and Red Chinese Communism/Socialism) have nothing to do with each other. An odd claim, given history and ALL apolitical analysis of history.
I gave you a wikapedia source to begin with which correctly summarized obvious Darwinian threads in Soviet philosophy and history – directly supporting what I said. You don’t like it because you say that it is not adequately referenced. Right.
I am not where I can reference my books or the internet at any reasonable speeds at the moment to provide anything at the moment – although it is like providing information to someone on the fact that the sun is hot or the earth is round.
In addition, you seem to be fixiated on the single exclusionary idea that the ’survivial of the fittest’ operates in merchantile capitalism, which you keep bringing up as if it means something of note. No kidding that it does.
But that is completely beside the original point which you disputed with no proofs – that Soviet and Chinese ideaology are threaded through with Darwinism, which they are.
Stalin was personally thrilled with Darwin’s Origin of the Species – he read it and considered it a capital (no pun intended) contribution to Soviet ideaology.
Does history mean NOTHING to you? How much blood has to be spilled again before another generation learns the same old lesson yet again?
Men are not ants, HRW, to be corralled in controlled colonies, presided over by the State, benevolent and harsh, as circumstances and fate dictate.
Are men should not be ants.
I am no fan of multi-national corporations but there is not a single multi-national corporation I know of which has been responsible for mass genocide – please tell me if I am wrong.
As far as National Socialism goes, I am simply tired of arguing with you that National Socialism is not Socialism.
It is a form of Socialism, much like what we see in Red China today. Or Italy or Germany in the past century. It is just another offshoot on the tree of tyranny.
I have seen and argued with your type (by the hundreds if not thousands) in the past century defend the indefensible, even as tens of millions were being butchered, slaughtered, starved, and worked to death in labor battalions.
Finally, there is something odd about Western Civilization, that it continually produces a self-loathing leftist intellectual class that is so determined to see it die – even though the self-loathing leftist intellectual class is generally the first to be machine-gunned and thrown in the trenches by its leaders when the glorious day comes.
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Hoping Roger does not leave.
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Folks, when dealing with false teaching you never know how the people will respond. I was a pastor of a very small church in a small farm town in Kansas. Money was always short for the bills. When I took over their was 4 people. Within a year we were running about 15 almost 20. Then God had me deal with 3 false teaching in the Church. Now when it was over 1 family ran to alter for pray, 1 family the woman threw down the Bible told her 85 years Husband, she was in her 60’s, we are leaving. As she was running, I heard tell her you are wrong the Pastor is right. That is why I stop going. He dies a few years later an she became one of the town drunks. The other family was my worship team. He meet with me a week later. I present to him the Word of God, one on one. He left an causing nothing but trouble for our little Church. He went to another Church and the new pastor would not speak to me for a years. that sunday I watched haft of the Church funds walk out the door. I watch my worship leader walk out the door. I could have keep my shout, but God would not permit me. This was the same thing that happen the other day. I could keep quiet and watch a brother fall further and further into sin. With out presenting the Truth of God’s Word.
Folks the issue is false teaching can and will destroy a man, a church if not dealt with.
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let try this again
Folks, when dealing with false teaching you never know how the people will respond. I was a pastor of a very small church in a small farm town in Kansas. Money was always short for the bills. When I took over their was 4 people. Within a year we were running about 15 almost 20. Then God had me deal with 3 false teaching in the Church. Now when it was over 1 family ran to alter for pray, 1 family the woman threw down the Bible told her 85 years Husband, she was in her 60’s, we are leaving. As she was running, I heard HIM tell her, you are wrong the Pastor is right. That is why I stop going. He dies a few years later an she became one of the town drunks. The other family was my worship team. He meet with me a week later. I present to him the Word of God, one on one. He left an causing nothing but trouble for our little Church. He went to another Church and the new pastor would not speak to me for a years. that sunday I watched haft of the Church funds walk out the door. I watch my worship leader walk out the door. I could have keep my MOUTH shout, but God would not permit me. This was the same thing that happen the other day. I could NOT keep quiet and watch a brother fall further and further into sin. With out presenting the Truth of God’s Word.
Folks the issue is false teaching can and will destroy a man, a church if not dealt with.
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Pastor Roy, I agree that false teaching can destroy a man and a church (and a country), but think our ability to engage it on a blog is limited, at least if the other party is unwilling to hear. In real life we can talk with someone, but sometimes they walk away, and at that point there’s nothing we can do except pray for them.
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Cheryl D. it is the same here. You can engage them with in the limited time giving. An the can read it our not. The issue is if God tells you to present the truth please listen to God.
You never know if the seed that you planted at that time you were being obedince to God, will becoming the archor need for God to use to change that person.
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Sorry, Steve, but as usual you miss the point. As a Christian, I cannot endorse the homosexual agenda. You endorse it all the time. As a Christian, I cannot endorse abortion. You endorse it all the time. Those are but two examples, the ones most discussed here to be sure. Christians have a choice: their faith or their government. A Christian has no choice but to be at odds with the US Government, because our government is one of compromise. It does not operate under biblical principles. You accept anything our government does and you seek to empower it more and more. Where the government departs from my faith, I choose my faith over the government. Our government is wrong when it approves of abortion. Our government is wrong when it makes accommodation to the homosexual agenda and furthers the destruction of the family. You’re in favor of those things. Your choice is clear.
Just as I will answer to God for my choices, you will answer for yours. There’s no judgment on my part. Judgment is reserved for God. I hope you can at least make that distinction.
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HRW, Judge Napolitano answers your question in the article.
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I just got this silly e-mail. In the light of our discussion, I thought some of you would enjoy this.
WARNING BEWARE OF TERRORIST GROUPS IN CHURCH
Latest news reports are that five terrorist cell groups have been operating in many of our churches.. They have been identified as:
Bin Sleepin, Bin Arguin, Bin Fightin, Bin Complainin, and Bin Missin.
Their leader, Lucifer Bin Workin, trained these groups to destroy Body of Christ. The plan is to come into the church disguised as Christians and to work within the church to discourage, disrupt, and destroy. However, there have been reports of a sixth group. A tiny cell known by the name Bin Prayin is actually the only effective counterterrorism force in the church.. Unlike other terrorist cells, the Bin Prayin team does not blend in with whoever and whatever comes along.
Bin Prayin does whatever is needed to uplift and encourage the Body of Christ. We have noticed that the Bin Prayin cell group has
different characteristics than the others. They have Bin Watchin, Bin Waitin, Bin Fastin, and Bin Longin for their Master, Jesus Christ to return.
NO CHURCH IS EXEMPT!
(However, you can spot them if you bin lookin and bin goin.)
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Roger, I respect your decision and will miss you. Drop in from time to time.
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Thanks Victoria.
Now would you consider yourself a fan? And if yes, can I let Cheryl know that I’m up to 2 fans, or would you prefer to remain anonymous?
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The words posted on a blog to answer a question regarding the Bible is there for anyone to read, or refer back again, ANYTIME.
Speaking to someone in person who either wants to argue, without letting one finish their reason for believing in Christ hinders whatever conversation one might have. However, the blog doesn’t allow for interruptions, YES the individual can choose not to read the answer, but it’s there just the same, IF they change their mind.
A blog isn’t limited as much as one might think. The limits I see are those who repeatedly argue for sinful lives, which are not permitted by the LORD. They know their presence, and continued persistence in provoking others is nothing more than evil, or a way in which to gain a bit of attention when needed.
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AJ, I believe you have a lot to offer – I liked your line:
“Some people prefer that whole “catch more with honey” loving approach to things. I prefer taking the fly swatter to ‘em.”
I don’t think the above applies to everything, but there often times there is no “honey” way in which to dispute false doctrine, or those who purposely distort the Bible to suit their sinful life.
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I can’t figure out exactly what you are voting on about AJ, but I’m a fan of his.
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But when one disagrees with a SteveG or a Thomas1 who are also propounding the liberal political agenda that has literally nothing to do with the Bible, are you really discussing theological differences? What I see are two people who have chosen the world, American politics, and are seeking to force Christianity into that mold.
NJL, Victoria, Roger and others;
Can not the above quote be said for those who embrace a right wing view of the world and American politics? Are they not seeking to force Christianity into that mold? The real question which both the Christian left and right should ask is what came first, their political opinion or their faith? Its bit presumption for me to be my two cents worth in but its always struck me that there is a contradiction between partisan support of the Republican party and Christianity including the evangelical version.
So before you (plural) continue to judge a liberal’s Christian based on their political opinion perhaps you could explain why the American right and Christianity are compatible?
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Roger and Pastor Roy,
Again you can take the following question with a grain of salt but … what type of world would you be comfortable interacting in?
Correct me if I’m wrong but both of you come close to asserting a “purity test” in opinion.
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Roger, I will miss you—-especially your encouraging posts in the morning, but if you must leave I understand. I pray God’s best for you.
Be well.
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Oh, stop with the AJ fan club. (see posts after three hundred on yesterday’s). It is all about winning for him.
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HRW
Would you vote for Obama if he wanted to run your country?
He isn’t a US citizen. If we can catch him, will you buy him?
He is slicker than a greased pole.
When he said he wanted to spread the wealth around, who knew he meant around the WORLD.
You can bet the whole Republican thing was to make Republicans look bad. We have plenty of Reps who already look bad and don’t need any help from Obama. But he needs his Dem voters loving him again and voting for his good ole Dems or RINOs in November.
He is very shrewd and a smooth talker. He could sell swamp property to a Florida owner while reading his lines off teleprompters. {{{
}}}
It is going to be an interesting year.
And GOD is STILL in control.
(this is not to say that GOD won’t let Obama do what he wants)
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Yipes, Mumsee. I have been an AJ fan for at least a year already. But I did see both of your competitive natures come out in yesterday’s thread. Not that you’re being a sore loser or anything… I’m a Mumsee fan too.
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Drill
to the torch you are carrying in regards to Statism,
Actually I’m opposed to Statism. I find the Patriot Act repugnant to human liberty. Gitmo to me represents the failure to act according to the rule of law and an abuse of executive power. I could go on all day but as my example points out “Statism” is a matter of opinion and political prospective.
I gave you a wikapedia source to begin with which correctly summarized obvious Darwinian threads in Soviet philosophy and history – directly supporting what I said. You don’t like it because you say that it is not adequately referenced. Right.
True, wikipedia articles are a good source if one can trace back where the idea/opinion originated but when an entire article is outsourced, it comes across as mere opinion. Victoria always condemned the use of Wikipedia so I began to use the footnotes to trace back the original source. Without an ability to trace back, Victoria has/had a valid point.
Stalin was personally thrilled with Darwin’s Origin of the Species – he read it and considered it a capital (no pun intended) contribution to Soviet ideaology.
I googled “Stalin origin of species” and went through the first three pages of result — most were creationist or religious sites espousing the same claim you make. A bit of an echo chamber.
Now its apparent that Stalin did read Origins which even the lone marxist site admits however Stalin went to the seminary after reading it. Nor does reading Darwin equate acceptance and in fact Soviet science held the ideas of Lysenko as orthodox. Lysenkoism is a pseudoscience based on Lamarckian evolution.
Does history mean NOTHING to you?
A lot and therefore I actually spend time on this site when mistaken conceptions are expressed. Again, a look at the history of fascism reveals a diametrically opposing ideology to Communism. Cultural conservatism, nationalism, corporate cooperation, hatred of trade unions, and specifically in Germany the night of long knives, the purge of the old guard/Strasserites, cooperation with Prussian military officers and German industrialist, coalitoin gov’t with the right wing National Party, persecution of trade unionists, communists, socialists etc. Furthermore, post war fascists (Spain, Portugal, Greece, Chile) cooperated with the western democracies in the Cold War against the communist bloc.
As far as National Socialism goes, I am simply tired of arguing with you that National Socialism is not Socialism.
You’re not arguing with me, you are merely restating your opinion. If you wish to argue, refute the above condensed version of the difference between fascism and socialism.
have seen and argued with your type (by the hundreds if not thousands) in the past century defend the indefensible, even as tens of millions were being butchered, slaughtered, starved, and worked to death in labor battalions.
I’m not defending communism – and its state-totalitarian form as expressed by Stalin — its record is exactly as you state. I’m merely correcting your historical inaccuracy. Hitler was the extreme right and Stalin was the extreme left.
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HRW, you may believe it and SteveG may believe it, but I don’t believe that the GOP and Christianity are compatible. You are the people who equate Republicans with Christians. I don’t, even if I am a member of the party. It’s really apples and oranges. I can’t account for people who don’t get that, which would be you and SteveG, etc.
Perhaps you guys missed all those threads about the lesser of two evils during the last presidential campaign? Anything political is a deal with the devil. And there were some who even refused to vote, which was their right.
And let me slide this is in: And AJ doesn’t torture and kill mice. (I love Mumsee, too. She’s a hero to me.)
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Re: Roger (and others) who leave here because of the few antagonists- Have we all forgotten the fruit of the Spirit includes “self-control”? If one has self control (like I hope I have) one can just scroll past any post by the antagonists and only read and interact with those who are in agreement. I scroll past many posts, even those by the “nicer” folk, if the subject matter does not interest me.
So, Roger, Roy and any former posters who may be lurking: Show some self control and ignore the nay sayers. It sure makes this place easier to endure.
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DRILL
am no fan of multi-national corporations but there is not a single multi-national corporation I know of which has been responsible for mass genocide – please tell me if I am wrong.
Bhopal – Union Carbide was the first thing to pop up when I read the above. As a one time event, it caused the immediate death of roughly 8 to 10 thousand people.
Not mass genocide but as a one day event death toll its fairly high.
In terms of responsibility, some responsibility must be given to corporations that cooperated with the Pinochet regime in Chile, German corporations which worked with the Nazi party, deBeers and the Congo, etc.
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HRW, both extremes seek absolute control over liberty.
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Speaking of interacting with antagonists: You indoor pet lovers will appreciate the fact that I had a from an outdoor dog on my wrap at lunch! Horrors! I guess I didn’t get them all brushed off my sweatshirt sleeve after petting her earlier.
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Roger, I cannot tell you the times I have come here to read over the comments and felt so blessed to see your name. You have always brought encouragement. I trust you will follow the lead of our Lord and Saviour Jesus in your decision……if He is leading you away from this site, I will miss you, all the while trusting His divine guidance in the life of His faithful servant….I pray His blessings upon your life dear brother…
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Oops! “I had a hair from an outdoor dog…”
Ya think a teacher would learn to proofread better?
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As long as it wasn’t the hair of the dog that bit you, Peter.
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NJL v#86
I re-read the article you cited but I still don’t see where the gentleman states what the US private insurances companies would respond. Judge Napolitano states only that permission is required but that’s the same in Ontario, the question in the court is who will pay for it. The Alberta Health ministry will no longer pay for it, the parents can easily hook their child up on their own coin. So my question is simple will American health insurance companies continue to pay when medical doctors no longer recommend the treatment.
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#97
News2me
Would you vote for Obama if he wanted to run your country?
I’ll trade Harper for Obama in a second. Would I vote for Obama? I normal vote for the social democratic NDP, I suspect if Obama was a Canadian politician he would be a liberal, so the answer is no. Obama is too centrist for me
He isn’t a US citizen. If we can catch him, will you buy him?
I have a sense of humour but the above is just bizarre
You can bet the whole Republican thing was to make Republicans look bad.
I’m on the understanding that the Republicans invited him and he agreed with the condition that it be televised. Presumably so there would be no dispute as to what was actually said. The House Reps were a little too sure of themselves. Perhaps they bought that whole he needs a teleprompter meme.
And GOD is STILL in control. (this is not to say that GOD won’t let Obama do what he wants)
You are hedging your bets here.
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NJL
HRW, you may believe it and SteveG may believe it, but I don’t believe that the GOP and Christianity are compatible.
And I agree
You are the people who equate Republicans with Christians. I don’t, even if I am a member of the party. It’s really apples and oranges. I can’t account for people who don’t get that, which would be you and SteveG, etc.
I was responding to an accusation that liberal Christians picking their political ideology and forcing Christianity to conform. My only point is that this can be said to both sides of the political fence.
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HRW, both extremes seek absolute control over liberty.
agreed
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Do NOT go to RAW STORY. As referred to in #14.
First they are very biased. Oh, Fox stopped the feed because the GOP were losing.
Second I could not stop the audio feed even though I shut the video off. I had to close the World Mag. Blog to get it to SHUT UP. I thought I was going to have to shut off my computer.
Thank you KWatson. Another place I can add to the “don’t go there” list.
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No, he told you that the parents control. Parents are not private insurance companies. It is possible that the policy has limitations — and an end — at which time social security, medicaid, etc. take over. Recently, I’ve heard of a case where a baby was born with a problem with the corpus colosum (sp?) — the two halves of the brain and not in communication and the infant is having seizures, etc. The family has been told that everything has to be exhausted before the child can go on these state programs, but she’s using up her lifetime amounts in her policy rather quickly. What happens here is that a hospital might sue to not have to provide services. But they can’t stop you from finding another hospital that will take the child.
What we don’t want is for the state to have the right to euthanize us based on a cost-benefit analysis, which is the issue up there in your country. I take it, maybe I shouldn’t, that you agree that the mother in the UK case committed murder. I think she did. We should not allow the state to do the same thing.
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Re: all the isms –
One thing I found very helpful in a required class in college, on sociology/economics/political science, was distinguishing between economic systems and political systems. If I remember correctly, socialism, capitalism, communism, and fascism are economic systems (HRW can correct me if I’m wrong). Democracy and totalitarianism are political systems.
We (Americans) tend to associate capitalism with democracy, and other economic systems with totalitarianism. What we object to primarily when we talk about socialism, fascism, and communism is the level of government control, which we associate with totalitarianism such as existed in Fascist Germany and Communist USSR.
It may be that some economic systems are not compatible with democracy. But demonstrating that to be so requires more than just pointing to the past or present existence of totalitarian regimes that implemented those economic systems. In the case of leaders such as Stalin or Hitler, it seems that their lust for power had a lot more to do with their tyrannical rule than that it was a necessary corollary of the economic system.
As for Darwinism, from what I read (admittedly at Wikipedia), the ideas labeled “Social Darwinism” were around well before Darwin published his theory about evolution. People who already held such views found it convenient to claim scientific support. I also read that the term “Social Darwinism” is almost never used by its supposed proponents, only as a pejorative term by their critics.
If the notion of the “survival of the fittest” is in fact a key part of the “worldview” of atheists, I would want to have one of them explain it to me, rather than someone trying to show what’s wrong with their view. I haven’t known a lot of atheists, but those I have known have not given me the impression that it is anything more than a scientific explanation of observed facts.
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81 and 82
Pastor Roy — your short story is a perfect example of the effects of a “purity test” In the drive to attain purity, how many people stopped attending church altogether? Does this further your goals of spreading good news? Now you may ignore and find it bizarre that I actually comment but …..
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AJ, you never actually named the person who was your first fan, so someone admitting fan-dom on here might be the first fan, for all I know.
Meanwhile, I just got word that church is cancelled tomorrow (as seemed likely–a lot of us would have trouble getting there in these conditions. For me, I can’t safely get out of my driveway, so I wasn’t going to go even if by chance they didn’t cancel).
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Nlawyer: Sorry, Steve, but as usual you miss the point. As a Christian, I cannot endorse the homosexual agenda. You endorse it all the time. As a Christian, I cannot endorse abortion. You endorse it all the time. Those are but two examples, the ones most discussed here to be sure. Christians have a choice: their faith or their government.
Where in the Bible is capitalism commanded?
Where in the Bible is free speech for corporations commanded?
You are on the “right” side of the two issues you name, but you are on the wrong side of others. But like most conservative Christians, you pry those two things out of the entire Bible and make them your litmus test for who is and isn’t Biblical.
I will stop reminding you that I’m pro-life, since you apparently are far more comfortable if you can fit me into your neat little mental box and not have to deal with my difference from one of the checklist items.
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HRW
Why do people who aren’t Christian come to Christian sites?
Is it a heckler thing? You don’t have anything better to do?
If we are as stupid as you think, then why do you come here?
The Obama thing was a joke.
If you are more left than Obama, then why do you like him?
Obama has been called more left than anyone even before he got elected Pres.
It is really sad that some come here and say that we hope he fails, which is just stupid. We just keep saying why do you want to tax people and raise people’s salaries in gov’t when people are out of work.
We say, you have your agenda Obama, we understand that, but can’t you wait until the economy turns around before you send in the BIG GREEN GOV’T MEN to make everyone GREEN?
He sent money to have people in local gov’t do stuff. Like someone said the other day in the newspaper, “dig a hole and then fill it up again.” The gov’t is growing. They decided to tax daycare centers, which daycare will have to pass along to parents. They hired more gov’t workers to do that.
He is cutting Medicare to doctors. Doctors here are already saying it costs too much to take Medicare patients anymore.
If Obama had sent a coupon for each person in America who doesn’t have a car, nor a house with the millions he sent to unknown districts, people would have jobs. They would be making cars and building houses. Instead he had a huge stimulus bill and says there was no pork attached. WHAT?!!!
And from the part I saw of the discussion, the GOP did pretty well. They at least had the guts to stand up to Obama.
HE LIED!!!!! and continues to LIE!!!!!!
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News2Me: He isn’t a US citizen
This will not become true no matter how many hundreds of times you repeat it.
If we can catch him, will you buy him?
And that’s just racist.
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NJL
But they can’t stop you from finding another hospital that will take the child.
As far as I know, that’s the same here.
I don’t know enough about the Inlglis case to judge if it was murder. I do know watching your children suffering from incurable ailments is the hardest thing a parent can do.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Latimer
The above is a Canadian case that may have been relevant to the previous article you cited. I sympathize with Latimer and think he spent too much time in prison but he did kill his daughter.
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#112
News2me
RAW story is simply replying the MSNBC live broadcast.Even if the site is biased, there’s no editing here.
Audio is quicker than video and if your computer is slow or has some problems, the audio will frequently keep running even after you close the window. Clean your computer and improve your connection and you shouldn’t have any problems.
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114
Pauline you are far too intelligent for this site. I never thought of explaining it in this manner but you are correct. Democracy,to a certain degree, can operate in any economic systems but admittedly better (socialism, capitalism) than in some others (fascism [corporatism] communism). The American (mis)conception makes sense once you stated it but would’ve never occurred to me. Thanks
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Why do people who aren’t Christian come to Christian sites? Is it a heckler thing? You don’t have anything better to do?
It allows me to maintain my logic skills by engaging me in debate as opposed to singing to the choir at a leftist site now that would be a waste of time.
If we are as stupid as you think, then why do you come here?
I’ve never said anyone was stupid
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If you are more left than Obama, then why do you like him?
Obama has been called more left than anyone even before he got elected Pres.
I’m a realist, I realize America would never vote for a real leftist such as Kuscinich. Besides like the rest of the world I’m just happy that America elected someone better than Bush or McCain.
Who called Obama more left? I would Bernie Saunders is the most left wing Senator and Kuscinich the most left wing member of Congress.
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NJL, Steve is pro-life.
I’d say capital punishment would fall under the state’s having the right to bear the sword to carry out justice.
As for corporations, I don’t see any biblical grounds for arguing one way or the other there. It’s an area where Christians can (and obviously do) disagree.
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Back to capital punishment, Scripture also requires 2 eye witnesses, and I would say that many of our death row inmates are there on what is circumstantial evidence.
Good questions arising: Does DNA constitute the same proof as an eye witness?
Under God’s law and his requirements, it’s not hard to think there would be far fewer people put to death.
But taking the life of another made in God’s image is an act that deserves death itself.
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According to the Bible (add to last sentence above).
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HRW and Pauline:
I would suggest you read Friedrich Hayek’s ‘Road to Serfdom’ before commenting further; if you have any interest in the subject of Statism (in all its forms) versus economic and political freedom, that should be a work you actually read and comprehend.
Pauline: Personalities indeed play a role in history, but ultimately there is only one scale – limited government to unlimited government; the most altrustic of people when given power become corrupt.
The missing component in the Socialist’s worldview is the nature of man and his response to power.
One thing, HRW, which may or may not make you happier:
Monopolistic capitalism in the form of trans-national corporations is antithetical to free enterprise and human liberty.
However, your example of ‘corporate genocide’ fails on a number of counts; the main one being that it was an accident, however liable and culpable the company; it fits not a single marker to be called ‘genocide’.
I believe you know what I am referring to when I refer to genocide.
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Thanks Donna. But she knows I’m pro-life. We’ve talked about it, and I’ve reminded her a couple of times. She just doesn’t appear to care about being accurate.
She can attack me for supporting gay rights. I do and don’t apologize for it. But I think she sees those two as a package deal, can can’t get her head around that somebody might hold the “liberal” position on one and not the other.
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Drill: Speaking of Hayek, you might appreciate this: Fear the Boom and Bust
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It’s not just about SteveG, but since you say he is pro-life, I can’t think of a time when he has made a spirited defense of the unborn the way Drill does, or Victoria or countless others. My point was that those are Christian positions and they just don’t fit at all with the position espoused by the Democrats.
And yeah, everyday here, liberals try to force Christians into believing that they have no right to participate in the political life in their own country, that they have to compromise their beliefs when they vote. There is a hatred and an anger and real condescension not only by the non-Christians, but by “liberal” Christians as well. The sneering pops out on the screen all the time.
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HRW: The book ‘Landmarks in the Life of Stalin’ by Yaroslavsky or something like that was published in Moscow in 1940 with the State machinery and Stalin’s permission and support (what book was not published in Moscow during that time under those conditions?)
Here is a quote from that book of a conversation between Stalin (Joseph) and a source in the book:
“I began to speak of God. Joseph heard me out, and after a moment’s silence, said:
“‘You know, they are fooling us, there is no God. ‘”
“I was astonished at these words. I had never heard anything like it before.
“‘How can you say such things, Soso?’ I exclaimed.
“‘I’ll lend you a book to read; it will show you that the world and all living things are quite different from what you imagine, and all this talk about God is sheer nonsense,’ Joseph said.
“‘What book is that?’ I enquired.
“‘Darwin. You must read it,’ Joseph impressed on me.
I don’t have this book, however, but I have heard about it all my life. Now, if you have information that this book never existed I would be interested in that mightily.
However, it demonstrates the connection between Soviet (Stalin) thought and Darwin and Stalin’s atheism, in any event. Even if the conversation never happened, you can bet that since the book was published with Stalin’s approval, it may as well have happened. Presumably it happened, however; it is certainly consistent with Stalin as we knew him.
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And now after reading 129, I’m just done with SteveG.
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Steveg: I will have to look at that later – I am having massive link problems lately and cannot look at any video or dense pages at all. This is ridiculous.
Electrons must be moving through cold syrup tonight.
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Ah! Cold syrup. Tell me about it. (Aaaaaa-CHOOOOO)
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I’ve read Hayek’s road to serfdom and its a dated document. Its his attempt to defend individualism against the dangers of collectivism. A danger he saw in the Nazi party, at the time the totalitarian nature of the Hitler regime could’ve easily given an observer in Britain that this included a collectivist approach to the economy but it did not. Recent historian research has gone through German records and found that the Nazi party did not centrally direct the war economy and in fact was the last of the war countries to assume a command economy. Both Churchill and FDR had more control of their countries economy until mid 1943 when Hitler and Speer finally became involved. In part this is because Hitler wanted to keep the German people supplied with consumer goods and in part because he didn’t want to upset the German industrialist who had bankrolled him in the early 1930s.
Furthermore Hayek is so determined to group the two extremes together he invents the oxymoron term “conservative socialism”. The only sense in which this is an accurate description is fascism as a traditional organic conservative reaction to the liberal mechanistic capitalist world view. But in that case he’s using the word socialism in a manner not commonly used.
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130
Vastly amusing video — I’ve referred it to my economist friend who as a fellow Austrian is a great fan of Hayek. Needless to say, we’ve had countless debates which is in part why I’ve read Road to Serfdom and have a ready made response.
132
I’ve read the conversation before and although this may contributed to Stalin’s atheism, it remains that Stalin was convinced by Trofim Lysenko, that both Darwinian evolution, and the very idea of Mendelian genetics ran counter to Communist ideology. In short Stalin oppossed Darwin’s theory in favor of Trofim Lysenko’s Lamarckianism
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HAPPY BIRTHDAY MICKEY MCLEAN!!!!!!!
I’d like to thank you all for coming, and I hope we passed the audition…………….
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Is that a real birthday announcement Justus? I had better get baking…
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Is there a party I haven’t been invited to??
Not the first, just sayin’ …….
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I respect and empathize with Roger’s decision. It’s like reordering one’s priorities to disregard optional movies or tv programs that are spoiled by unopposed lies and offensive anti-Christian advocacy.
He doesn’t need any lectures on the ubiquitous nature of satanic influences in every aspect of this world. Our time priorities and focus change at various stages of Christian life. With the exception of a very few poster, I find my scrolling time here almost exceeds the worth of time spent.
I’m at a point where more than every moment counts as I anticipate major surgery and can’t be bothered with too much silliness apart from my family, which is not to say that it isn’t worth it to other posters So I will be mainly lurking , yet still coveting your Christian prayers for my family and me as the next few weeks roll on and thank God that He is in control of even those who do not know Him.
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GOD’s blessing Nana – I’m in prayer for you everyday.
You’re right about scrolling – it works very well for me too.
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NJLawyer: It’s not just about SteveG, but since you say he is pro-life, I can’t think of a time when he has made a spirited defense of the unborn the way Drill does, or Victoria or countless others.
Around here, I don’t need to. Most people here already agree with that position, the few who don’t aren’t likely to change their minds, and in any case, other people, as you point out, already do it as well or better than I could.
On the other hand, you’ve not heard me make any defense, spirited or otherwise, of the pro-choice side either.
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Thank you Victoria, I count on that. If I log in with an off-the-wall comment now and then, I hope you all will give me a break until I get my gumption back
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Mumsee,
I just left a post on WV’s from yesterday congratulating you on your achievement. And then I come here and find post 96. I’m crushed that you just viryual eye-rolled my fan club,(I’m up to like 4 now), and that you think I’m so shallow as to only care about winning. You cut me deep there. I’m not that competitive really.
Wanna race to 200 mouse whacker?
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“mouse-whacker.” Mumsee’s new nickname.
I like it.
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Look I’m so upset I can’t even spell virtual eye-rolled and completely blew it on what was supposed to be a bug eyed smiley face.
And by the way, my rat terrier would beat yours in a race anyday.
Or at least he would if I was the competitive type.
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AJ- Let’s not resort to name calling. And “mouse whacker” would not be accurate anyway. She puts them in a toaster oven. So “mouse toaster” is way more accurate.
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NJLawyer – #131/133 -
Roger #55 –
I now have a list of 16 people whose posts I will not read and to whom I will NEVER again respond. I find it more than a little unusual that so many are here at one time in an obvious attempt to do nothing other that to harm Christians! Maybe I’m paranoid, but I have to conclude that they have been sent here to do just that!
My efforts were succeeding until the last few days, when many of those whose posts I respect began to post extensive responses to these people I (for my own “blacklist”) have called “haters”; as a result, the WMB has become very difficult to wade through and thus I can fully appreciate your decision Roger.
But, I hate to see those “haters” win, so I will stay here and outwait them!!
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Sorry Peter, I stand corrected.
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HRW: No, Hayek’s Road to Serfdom is hardly a ‘dated’ document – it has and continues to be proved chillingly true. Chapter 12 provides an excellent summary of the Socialist roots of Fascism (Nazism) – and well referenced as well.
This work is routinely hated and despised by leftist ‘economists’ and ‘historians’ because it blows their fiction of ‘beneficial’ State control out of the water.
It is interesting that you disparage his use of the term ‘conservative Socialism’ simply because ‘it is a term not commonly used’. Not commonly used by whom? Statists and leftist ‘economists’ and ‘historians’? Wonder why that would be ? . . .
Finally, Soviet embrace of Lysenko’s Lamarckianism was in biology, not social philosophy; and that was a personal aberration driven by Stalin’s bizarre erraticism in the first place. Leninism and subsequent Soviet philosophy was permeated with Darwinism, with history viewed as a series of climatic ’survival of the fittest’ struggles between classes, culminating in the final triumph of the proletariat.
Yeah, you bet Darwin influenced Stalin.
Darwin and the natural end product of Socialism, despotism, gave him opportunity and cover for murdering 60 million or so people.
Finally, you might also try Ludwig von Mises “Human Action”. It is a slog, though. I read it 40 years or so ago.
Unless you throw away your pre-planted bias for Statism, none of this will do any good, of course.
Why am I not optimistic . . .
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Maybe I’m paranoid, but I have to conclude that they have been sent here to do just that!
You are paranoid.
The Internet’s a big place and there are lot of people who use it, and some of them like to seek out people they disagree with to debate (in the better examples) or heckle (in the worse examples.) Any site that deliberately opens itself to people who disagree with the majority view is going to attract those people.
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I see Idaho made the news again. !0 folk being held for trying to take kids out of Haiti without permission. Oops. Church folk, trying to help the kids survive. Can’t buck the system.
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‘conservative Socialism’ simply because ‘it is a term not commonly used’. Not commonly used by whom? Statists and leftist ‘economists’ and ‘historians’?
By anyone I know including conservatives. Its a bizarre term which may be lost in translation but as I stated I believe it may be a reference to pre-capitalist conservative in which case its fairly accurately only in that a conservative reaction to capitalism is a desire for a social contract reminiscent of the medieval hierarchy — an organic conception of society.
Soviet embrace of Lysenko’s Lamarckianism was in biology, not social philosophy; … Leninism and subsequent Soviet philosophy was permeated with Darwinism, with history viewed as a series of climatic ’survival of the fittest’ struggles between classes, culminating in the final triumph of the proletariat.
Now I understand. When you referred to Origin of Species I thought you were suggesting that Charles Darwin’s scientific thought had influenced Stalin. Instead you are suggesting “Darwinism” is the influence which as Pauline points out pre-dates Darwin the man and labeled Darwinism to give it scientific credo. Survival of the fittest according to Darwin the scientist is merely a statement of fact in the natural world. Darwin was not a sociologist if other people tried to draw links between biology and the forces of history blame them not Darwin.
Unless you throw away your pre-planted bias for Statism, none of this will do any good, of course.
I’m amused. No matter what I write I don’t seem to change people’s perceptions. I have no pre-planted bias for Statism as I mentioned before I find the Patriot Act an intrusion into the private affairs of the individual and a gross abuse of executive as is Gitmo with its implicit refusal to accept the rule of law. Furthermore, the coercive power of the state enlarged through fear mongering and declared wars on commodities and tactics does not bode well for human liberty.
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I pretty much read everybody, but I do scroll through comments that are repetitive or that are talking about something I don’t find particularly interesting.
I don’t read through long posts of quoted Scripture. I figure I can do that on my own, and don’t come to a blog to read long blocks of quoted Scripture.
I honestly think that some of our more Liberal posters are EASILY balanced out by some of our difficult Conservative posters, who actually drive me FAR more crazy.
It is far easier to deal with a person who is being rude who you don’t generally agree with then be stuck being on the same side (more or less) with a really disagreeable person. It’s downright depressing.
Fortunately, there are Donna, and Chas, and Mumsee, and Cheryl.
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I don’t not read people, but occasionally I skim. Also, what TRS said.
So NJL says she’s done with SteveG. Let’s hope that lasts: I was reluctantly getting ready to bust out with gingham dog/calico cat references. Some people simply rub each other the wrong way, it seems. NJL isn’t really the most difficult conservative poster I can think of, and SteveG certainly isn’t the worst liberal: I usually appreciate what he has to say.
SteveG: I, at least, am glad you decided to post again.
I’m not really bothered by the atheist presence here. I like the debate, and they’re far from the worst atheists you can find on the internet.
It confuses me a tad when people complain about it: I thought a large part of the point (the whole point?) of this website was debate? How do y’all plan to do that without opposing views?
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The problem is Nana, you don’t do “off-the-wall” ccomments, so there is nothing to complain about. Isn’t there something you can think of that might be a second choice? – ….. I bet you can’t.
Sweet dreams, have a wonderful Sunday.
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Agreed, TRS, that the posters on “our side” who do the attack mode bother me far more. Some of the others annoy me too, but not in the same way.
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Roger Patno,
In your postings I have found blessings. I would prefer that you stay. I also echo what KI said in that the decision is between you and God.
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Post 161 should say:
I would be concerned if it offends the LORD, but offending those here on earth who find fault with giving out the Gospel has no effect on me, and I dare say it dosen’t bother the vast majority of others who are spending their time defending the FAITH in our LORD and Savior.
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In college I wrote an essay about the offense of the Gospel . . . about how it should be the Gospel that offends, if anything does, not an offensive messenger. Sometimes we get the two confused, and demand our right to be offensive. That is quite contrary to the Gospel, not in accord with it. In fact, I daresay that sort of offense is offense to the Lord too.
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#163
Amen! (Not that I haven’t been occasionally guilty. But, hopefully, I know it and repent of it!)
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Those who preach the Gospel to those who are only interested in the sin their in, ……. ARE most often OFFENDED at the preaching of GOD’s Word. It isn’t the messenger which is the problem but the Word of GOD which makes clear the SIN which offends the LORD, and will ultimately lead the un-repentant to eternal life in hell.
Those who prick the conscience of sinners through the Gospel of Christ (Christian Believers) often ‘offend’ the sinner – yes they are the messenger, but GOD has delivered the message through the ‘messenger’ – this is something that offends sinful man, he will blame the messenger, but we must always remember GOD chose to make the rules, and HE alone will decide. We are only messengers ….. laughed at, made fun of, even by our own sisters and brothers in Christ –
That should never detour any of us.
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#157
Agreed, TJS.
NJL is generally a great gal…except when around SteveG, and vice versa.
Now you’ve got me thinking of that poem! LOL
Maybe they’ll get housing in Heaven as neighbors along with Thomas1 and Pastor Roy?
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#165
I disagree. Occasionally, and with some truly recalcitrant people, the person presenting the Gospel will be treated as just as offensive as the Gospel itself, even when they are loving and careful in their presentation.
But, if one’s goal is to be offensive and difficult, then one is likely to turn off a lot of seekers long before they even have a chance to be offended by the Gospel.
If the Gospel offends, and the offense rubs off on the messenger, then so be it. But, never let it be the MESSENGER that offends first and turns people away from the Gospel.
Yes, God will get through sooner or later anyway, but woe to the offensive messenger who made it more difficult!
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I find, upon reflection, that I’m not entirely comfortable with the idea of a “no-read list.”
It’s like saying that the person is worthless to you. That nothing they can say, ever, will have any merit. You’re cutting off any opportunity for interaction. It’s like the final “Ha! I win, game over, there’s nothing you can do, nananananana!”
On the other hand, I can think of one or two posters I usually skim, on the off chance they’ve said something worth reading, but not really expecting it.
Of course, maybe that’s just me, since I don’t usually get personally offended by blog posts. If you find that a poster infuriates you so much that it makes your life miserable to read their contributions, then perhaps you should ignore them.
But I have to ask: those of you with lists of people not to read which outweigh your lists of people to read, can all those people really be that offensive? Did you perhaps only decide to ignore someone based on one post or thread? Everyone says things that perhaps weren’t the best. I myself am often on the blog when I’m depressed, or tired, or bored, or have low blood sugar or something. How many ignore lists am I on? Now there’s a saddening thought.
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KIM- Good for you on the reading you are doing. I too have a hard time staying consistent. I have about 115 people on my daily devotional list that I would have to go to and say I just could not do it. It is a great motivator to keep going. Besides, I am learning so much. I needed to be held accountable.:)
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Well, evidently, SteveG doesn’t feel he needs to defend the unborn around here. If he had done so, I probably would have remembered that he was pro-life. He makes spirited defense of Obama all the time. I remember that well.
Inasmuch as I am not allowed to respond to personal attacks, I have learned that it is better not to engage. It’s been a long, hard lesson, and it doesn’t always stay learned. I don’t usually take what’s posted to heart, so I relent and engage, but that is proving to be a mistake. While I agree that ignoring a poster essentially says they have no value, it’s better than getting a nasty, snarky response, which usually comes when — as Victoria notes — someone is “pricked.” It’s easier not to engage.
I don’t come here to get my lawyer saliva going. The Christians here have been a haven for me during the day when I am often surrounded by incredibly selfish people who are more hung up on status and money in this town of mine than anything else. Times are tough, and the Christians here always remind me of what’s important. They are a defense against “my feet well nigh slipped…”
I don’t have a list (TRS, rest easy), but I do scroll. I understand why people do have lists.
Nana, you are prayed for, please know that.
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How come I never make anyone’s list. I don’t have a fan club like Mumsee and AJ. Now you’ve made me paranoid that I am on the do not read list.
*Steve G. I did not find Drill’s post about “buying” Obama racist, I read it as in all politicians are bought whether they are red, white, black, or blue…you just get what you pay for.
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On Corporations and Free Speech. This poor dead horse has no more flesh for me to beat.
I just posted over on that thread for the last time to SteveG: You still miss the point. The government can pass NO law abridging the freedom of speech. NONE. There are NO exceptions. It’s a simple sentence, but you have absolutely NO comprehension of the meaning of the word NO. NO law means NO law.
Period. End of discussion for me. Next case.
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Kim and Steveg: Where did I get accused of being a racist – and by Steveg? I don’t know what post you are referring to – a post where I was talking about ‘buying’ Obama?; I don’t recollect any such post done by me. I think the other day I made the (true) statement that Obama and the Democrats are ‘owned’ by the ChiComs (Chinese Communists).
I am hardly a racist because I oppose Obama. Abortion kills far more Black children, quite disproportionately – in fact I could make a solid argument that Obama and those who support and enable abortion openly are actually not only racists against Blacks but also genocidists. That I don’t is because I am a mild-mannered and go-along-to-get-along type person.
I am also part Black myself, as I have stated before; family history and DNA analysis confirms. Mostly Irish. But still pretty much a mongrel with DNA do-hickeys from every ethnic group on the planet, just about.
Also some DNA do-hickeys from off-planet, but you Earthlings don’t need to know about THAT just yet.
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My apologies Drill. News2me said it to HRW and I mistakenly remembered you saying it.
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As far as DNA make-up…I don’t even want to know. I have my suspisions.
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I don’t think Drill comes from my planet.
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Sometimes I try to ignore my own posts, which sometimes offend even me, but then I get offended.
It is just a no-win scenario.
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Only someone from the left would interpret a joke as RACIST. It didn’t even occur to me that what I said would be deemed as RACIST. It was a joke about him being more slippery than grease on a pole–ya just can’t get a grip on it.
I guess the left will continue to play the RACIST CARD whenever they are losing an argument. So sad.
I would have said the same about “selling” Bill Clinton, but he isn’t president right now. Besides Clinton isn’t quite as slippery as Obama is.
I don’t think of Obama as black. I think of him as a Muslim.
I will continue to call him the way I see him–someone who wants to rule the world, beginning with the US. He has locked up ALL of his personal information. If he is who he says he is, then why doesn’t he PROVE IT!
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JILLER
Is your husband still able to preach?
You sound like you have your hands full.
Do you have a support group from your church?
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Re a “don’t read list”: I have an informal one myself, people who say the same thing over and over, for example. It says nothing about personal worth, but about whether their writings are worth my time–I have an even longer “list” of authors in the library I won’t bother to read. I’m quite likely to skim those posts as I’m scrolling by, but I don’t deliberately read them. I also have a short list of people I avoid responding to, because of their history of how they respond back when I do respond.
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Actually, I shouldn’t have said how they respond back when I respond. All three people on that list respond predictably to anyone who disagrees with them, though “predictably” in different ways among them. One wants to bait Christians, for instance, and predictably lays a sweet trap to get people engaged slowly before they know it’s a trap; the others react in a different way, but in ways that are very predictable nonetheless. But the issue isn’t that something I personally do rubs these people the wrong way. I take it as their problem, not mine, and I move on.
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Don’t read list. I have one with two names on it. But if they say something that somebody else responds to and it is of interest to me, I might go back and read theirs and comment.
Skim list. This is much longer as often there are areas of no interest to me of great interest to others. It is like being in a room of people talking, I don’t interject into every conversation or eavesdrop on every conversation though I might hear a word here and there. A few, I read every time I see their name. Many, I enjoy but they may just get skimmed if the topic is too out of my interests or if the chaos level is rising around here. Very self centered person, I am.
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(Testing to see if I’m on Mumsee’s don’t read list.)
Hey y’all, Mumsee seems to be skipping church. Does she lose any holiness points for that? Does she need to explain herself.
Me, I’m snowed in and church was cancelled.
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News2me
I didn’t say your joke was racist only bizarre. I can accept Kim’s explanation but within context and in the matter you state that I could buy him; its not a good way to get your message across. Now if you had said I could buy what he was saying or selling then this would clarify it. And yes if you said buy Bill Clinton I still would think it was a bizarre statement (slightly less given the context)
I would have said the same about “selling” Bill Clinton, but he isn’t president right now. Besides Clinton isn’t quite as slippery as Obama is.
No-one can be better than Clinton in that regards — the ultimate people’s “I feel your pain” politician. Obama comes across too smart to pull that off.
I don’t think of Obama as black. I think of him as a Muslim.
How do you prove a negative? When the Bush et al claimed Saddam had WMD, Saddam couldn’t prove the negative for no matter how clean he tried to show himself Bush true believers would claim he was sneaky and really good at hiding. To this day, true believers claim Saddam smuggled his WMD elsewhere.
If Obama was to make his entire life in a open book, and prove he was a US citizen, Christian (or at least not a Muslim) etc., the Birther nation would only claim he was deceptive etc etc.
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All these claims of “no-read” lists are beginning to affect my self worth and self-esteem. IS my voice only projecting into an echo filled void?
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OK, Mumsee said on another thread that she did have church today, so I think (oh please, please) that she’s just headed for church and not scrolling past me.
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Kim #17, you’re way up there on my fan list. I don’t have a “no-read” list, because when we get to caring for pets and roasting mice, I scan past lots of people I ordinarily read.
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HRW,
I generally read your thoughts. You are clear and well spoken and have a compassion for others that comes through. You are wrong sometimes but that is okay.
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My two person no read list is made up of people who needed to be there as they post a lot and either say the same stuff or become too caught up in wording for my tastes.
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Kim,
After I posted my list of great people, I immediately remembered that I had left you off. Please don’t be offended. I DID think of you.
(And, no one ever puts me on their lists of missed people or whatever either. I think I have less fans than AJ. 
)
HRW, I always read your posts, except — on occasion — when they’re really long and not on a topic I want to read about. But, I do that to everyone. Got to be in the mood for some topics.
Newstome and SteveG: I didn’t understand Newstome’s joke or whatever, but I didn’t think it was racist. Even after Newstome explained the joke, I still don’t get it, and even after SteveG called it racist I still don’t get it.
I do skim posts of certain repetitive people. I already know what they’re going to say.
But, I do skim them, usually. Like Cheryl, I have a hard time NOT reading something even when I skim because I read fast.
I do avoid reading a great deal of Musing. I’m sorry about that, but he drives me bonkers.
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I have a fan club? How exciting! When do they meet? Are there dues? Or are you talking about the stick I use to get the fan started in the summer?
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(testing, testing, checking to see if Cheryl is still wondering)
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Mumsee, see post 192.
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Wow, that looks very sad. I wonder why such a sad face. But I have no time to address it as I am working diligently to earn back holiness points.
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Per Chas’ comments in 187, I will now have to start “burying” my pet care comments in the middle of my generalized comments.
As a writer, I learn pretty quick how to rope ‘em in.
I think Mumsee always reads me, no matter what I say. Right Mumsee?
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Mumsee?
Wait! Did she just scroll on by??
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Sorry, Donna, I think she wants both of us to come begging to her and promise that we’ll only write pithy, memorable comments on subjects she cares about. Otherwise, we’ll just have to keep on wondering if we’re on her list.
Yesterday I checked the snow for tracks, and sure enough I had animal tracks. They were puzzling, though–two different places I had only half a set of tracks. Meaning several tracks close together, and then–nothing. No more tracks, no dry ground that wouldn’t show tracks, no evidence a hawk swooped in and got a meal. I suppose it shows what a poor “tracker” I am, but it took me a while to realize that meant I was looking at tracks from a squirrel and not a rabbit–that the end of the tracks meant he found something to leap to.
OK, end of animal comment. (Thanks for the suggestion on burying them, Donna–we might keep these guys a little off balance yet. In fact, I had to think to come up with an animal comment, just to test what might happen.)
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199?
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200!
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DING-DING-DING-DING
What do you win, though?
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You win a big ATTABOY!
But it isn’t fair to insert an animal comment in the midst of a post.
Notice how many challenging subjects we have this Sunday afternoon?
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179 NEWS2ME
Hubby has been the only pulpit minister now for about 7 months. He informed the leadership today that he will probably need to step down. The whole body jerking is now totally visible to everyone. The progression of the jerking has been very gradual the past 6 months. There is no way to hide it any longer. I think we are seeing the end of our public ministry. It was our dream over 33 years ago to go into full time ministry after he retired from the military. We have only been in full time ministry 10 years. He was not ready to quit but it appears there is no other alternative.
I have a couple of very good buddies to lament with.
We will have to sell the house and move south where housing is cheaper. Mr. Jiller’s folks are south and we will live close to them. We have military retirement but not enough to live on with three teenage boys still living at home.
I know GOd will not let us starve or be without a roof over our heads. He will be faithful.
YOu asked about leadership, not very supportive I am afraid. They did not understand all these months, now that it is so visible they get it but seem unable to communicate on any level.
“I will praise you in this storm Father” what else can I do? My heart is breaking and I am tired and anxious. Not anxious about the future per se but anxious about my response being correct if I need to act quickly in a medical emergency for the sake of my husband. My gut tells me I am going to need it.
SOrry this was so long. Thanks for “listening.”
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Prayers, Jiller.
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I’ve been thinking about integrity since Friday’s postings on Mr. O’Keefe as well as my personal rant about having my intergrity as a crisis pregnancy center volunteer questioned.
I’ve since posted another comment on the “amulance” post for January 29, which may explain my reaction better.
What continues to trouble me, however, is this notion that Christians are not trustworthy. I spend a lot of time examining my heart and confessing sin–because I worship a God who is holy and who cannot look upon sin.
Many passages in scripture discuss our tongues and how our words reflect the attitudes of our heart. That’s integrity.
While Hollywood delights in portraying Christians as bumbling liars–incorrectly in many instances I believe–it’s not just the media who is to blame for this image. Everytime someone stands up and claims to speak for God, they put all of us on stage for examination. It doesn’t matter to people predisposed to believe the lie that I agree with everything Pat Robertson says, or that Haggard guy–we are all tainted when a Christian speaks in a way that is dishonest and/or does not glorify God.
I’m sure my integrity as a person will be challenged in the next week, but I hope you will join me in praying that when I’m given an opportunity to chose whether to speak the truth in love, or shade my answer in a lie–that I will chose to speak the truth.
Because it’s not just my integrity that’s at stake–it’s Jesus’.
Sermon done.
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I’m praying for you and your husband Jiller. A chronic problem can be debilitating on everyone.
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Michelle, I figure that as long as I keep my integrity intact, Jesus can take care of himself.
I never comment on, nor defend Robertson or Haggard. If someone wants to let that stand between them and God, they have to answer for it.
If you find fault with me, let me know.
If you find fault with Jesus, tell him about it.
If you have honest questions, I’ll be glad to help if i can.
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Integrity:
My two sons in the military have both commented recently on how difficult it is to find people of integrity. They are frustrated by people saying they will do something and not following through. I tell them to make sure their own integrity is intact and to train up their children to the best of their ability to be people of honor. This goes back to the idea that Christianity is being taken too shallowly. People who think they just need to recite the prayer don’t seem to realize what it means to tell God you want Him as Lord of your life. It makes them different from the world and the world should notice. And not just because they say they are a Christian.
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I thought this was an interesting article to read:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35086396/ns/health-cancer/
It is interesting to see his attitude and how he is dealing with it as well as how his church is dealing with it. Would that all churches would deal with such things properly rather than pretending it doesn’t exist or making the sufferer into a pariah.
Praying for you and hubby, Jiller.
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Michelle- I had to learn integrity from my husband. I was raised to lie and lie really well. My husband’s word is his bond. He doesnt just preach integrity, he lives it. I have learned much from him. I will pray Michelle this week that the words you speak are gracious and truthful. Thank you for the reminder.
thank you all so much for your prayers, I treasure them.
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Mumsee (209): Great story – thanks for the link.
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you folks are going to love this I posted the follow passage on the local paper news site in responds to someone
Ezekiel 16:46-50
“Your elder sister is Samaria, who dwells with her daughters to the north of you; and your younger sister, who dwells to the south of you, is Sodom and her daughters. You did not walk in their ways nor act according to their abominations; but, as if that were too little, you became more corrupt than they in all your ways.
“As I live,” says the Lord GOD, “neither your sister Sodom nor her daughters have done as you and your daughters have done. Look, this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: She and her daughter had pride, fullness of food, and abundance of idleness; neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty and committed abomination before Me; therefore I took them away as I saw fit.
The reason it was removed was for the word “committed abomination. “
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James 3:1-12
My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment. For we all stumble in many things. If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body. Indeed, we put bits in horses’ mouths that they may obey us, and we turn their whole body. Look also at ships: although they are so large and are driven by fierce winds, they are turned by a very small rudder wherever the pilot desires. Even so the tongue is a little member and boasts great things.
See how great a forest a little fire kindles! And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity. The tongue is so set among our members that it defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire by hell. For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and creature of the sea, is tamed and has been tamed by mankind. But no man can tame the tongue. It is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. With it we bless our God and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the similitude of God. Out of the same mouth proceed blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be so. Does a spring send forth fresh water and bitter from the same opening? Can a fig tree, my brethren, bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Thus no spring yields both salt water and fresh.
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Matthew 15:1-20
Then the scribes and Pharisees who were from Jerusalem came to Jesus, saying, “Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.”
He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— then he need not honor his father or mother.’ Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:
‘ These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And[e]honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’”
When He had called the multitude to Himself, He said to them, “Hear and understand: Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.”
Then His disciples came and said to Him, “Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?”
But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”
Then Peter answered and said to Him, “Explain this parable to us.”
So Jesus said, “Are you also still without understanding? Do you not yet understand that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and is eliminated? But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man.”
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an this is what I found in their place
” This post violates our user guidelines and has been removed. “
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Pastor Roy, not sure what the guidelines are, but perhaps it has to do with posting lengthy quotes? Just a thought.
As long as newspapers are going to allow comments, I think we need to err on the side of allowing rather than disallowing various comments. I do have the “power” to remove a comment posted on a story I’ve written, but my criteria is fairly limited and reserved only for things like libel, foul language and personal attacks on people who have been featured in an article.
(It bothers me so much that we ask folks to open up to us so we can do a story and then they’re subjected to personal abuse by commenters who do not know them.)
Political or religious statements or even attacks get to stay up in my book, even if I strongly disagree with them. Comments should never be judged based on “political correctness.”
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Mumsee, thanks for the article link, very compelling story — I linked it on Facebook.
(Nice writing, too.)
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donna j – not at one person took up a whole page with comments.
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this is their one their site
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donna j – not at all one person took up a whole page with 1 comment
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Oh Jiller, may God give both of you wisdom and strength, as well as clear direction.
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Jiller, praying, also.
Mumsee, that was an interesting story. I liked the quote about humans being linked in suffering. Most people don’t get too old to experience that. I would want it to be used for God’s glory and to learn all he has for me. It is another reason we must pray for one another.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc_-L4fyLUo
Ray Stevens’ We the People song
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Thanks for the link Mumsee.
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Just got back to the site.
I have to leave abruptly often. Whoops!
Like now. Gone again.
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Jiller, thinking about you and praying for you too. I’m glad you have some extended family you can move close to. That can be a real comfort. I pray God draws your family closer than ever, and gives you courage in this trial.
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Jiller, I am specifically praying also that both you and your husband will heal from the lack of caring from your church. Whether intentional or not, such things are hurtful. They can drive us deeper into the arms of the Lord. I pray you feel his love deeply for you both.
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Jiller, I don’t say this to many people because I like to keep my little piece of paradise secret, but come on down and be sure to let us know when you get here so we can bring food and have a housewarming. I also am praying.
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TRS: Newstome and SteveG: I didn’t understand Newstome’s joke or whatever, but I didn’t think it was racist. Even after Newstome explained the joke, I still don’t get it, and even after SteveG called it racist I still don’t get it.
It was not long ago in this country that black people were bought and sold by white people. That is what N2M’s “joke” made me think of. If it’s not what she meant, then maybe she can find a better way to make her point.
Calling him an alien and a Muslim isn’t helping, since he is neither.
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Thanks ladies for restoring my self esteem
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Haven’t finished all reading all the comments (haven’t finished yesterday’s WVs either!), but want to say that I pray for all those who ask, & even for some who don’t ask.
May everyone have a blessed week in which each of us is drawn closer to our Lord & Savior.
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Victoria – I hope you’re still reading.
A little while back, you & I had a disagreement that became unpleasant. I lost my temper & ignored my self-control, writing something on the snarky/sarcastic side to you.
It has bothered me since then. You & I may not always agree on certain matters, but you are my sister in Christ, & I want there to be peace between us. I offer you my apology for any offense I have given you.
My love goes out to you, Victoria.
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Karen -
Thenk you so much for your thoughtful post, I don’t remember the post you are referring to, but I most certainly accept your apology. I too want there to be peace.
GOD bless you Karen
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Mumsee’s article was interesting, and very positive toward Christianity (which is rather a surprise considering the source.)
My only complaint was this quote:
“His theology teaches that all men are wicked, that human beings have offended a loving and sovereign God, and that God saves through Jesus’ death, burial and resurrection — not because people do good deeds. In short, Chandler is a Calvinist….”
Those of us who are not Calvinists, but yet Christians, believe all of the above too.
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