“Calling” vs. choice
The abuse of the concept of “calling” creates serious injury to people in the church and can lead to poor or cowardly choices. There is no need to spiritualize good desires. I started thinking about this when a friend told me that he’s staying in his current city because he felt “called” there? I thought, “How does he know that?” Does God “call” people to ZIP codes? What is wrong with just saying that you want to live somewhere because you like the place? Why spiritualize it?
For some perspective on this problem I asked a New Testament scholar to reflect on evangelical abuse of “calling.” Dr. James Meek, now in administration at Lock Haven University, had this to say:
“Evangelicals have developed an unfortunate habit of seeking and claiming divine direction to a degree that Scripture does not appear to justify. We deceive ourselves by claiming that our wishes and hunches are divine instructions when we have no solid reason (biblical or otherwise) for believing them to be so. But once one person begins talking this way, it’s hard not to want to sound as ’spiritual.’
I think what we actually do is to baptize hunches and wishes in the mistaken belief that these represent divine guidance. It’s a way of thinking (and talking) that has simply become accepted in many evangelical circles.
Meek went on to say that reducing our hunches and desires to a “calling” saves us the trouble of thinking, drawing on Scriptural principles, and wise understanding of the world, and absolves us of responsibility when things don’t work out well. The false spirituality and false humility of “waiting on the Lord” to avoid wrestling over a wise course of action “in the flesh” results often in sitting passively while waiting for God to drop something in our laps. Not taking risks, moving forward, or taking decisive action could actually be a sign of cowardice or lack of faith. Dr. Meek said that he’s been around long enough to have seen far too many things that “God directed” accomplish nothing. But you can’t question failure because “God directed” the action in question.
Here’s the bottom line: the Bible simply does not generally use “calling” to justify everyday choices or big-life decisions. There are a few notable exceptions for a few biblical characters. The Bible, however, does not generally use “calling” in terms of vocations, college attendance, numbering children, whom to marry, house purchases, which city or neighborhood to live in, and so on. In fact, the Greek word for “calling” is only used in the New Testament around 11 times and its almost always in reference to a divine callings related to salvation or callings to live a holy life. This is what it means to “live in God’s will.” God’s “will” may have nothing to do with whether or not one should move to Seattle instead of Chicago but it does have something to do with what kind of person one will be in either Seattle or Chicago in whatever job one chooses while living in whatever neighborhood one desires.
Until Christians adopt better language we will continue to set people up for disappointment and theological crises when their “callings” don’t work out. You do not have to be “called” in order to choose something good. If your choice turns about out to be a disaster, it’s OK, God is sovereign.

















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back to top126 Comments to ““Calling” vs. choice”
I think what we actually do is to baptize hunches and wishes in the mistaken belief that these represent divine guidance. It’s a way of thinking (and talking) that has simply become accepted in many evangelical circles.
Excellent point. I doubt that it will discourage people here from talking about being “called” by God.
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You are correct, alot of people are confused. When the Father calls you to do His will, It is usually the opposite of what they really want to do or go. In the Acts of Thomas, Thomas wished to travel where he wanted and thought to spread the word. Well the Father thought otherwise and Thomas kept refusing to follow the nudges the Father was giving(read the story and find truth for yourself)well needless to say Thomas ended up going not of his own will but by the Will of the Father.
Also just before Peters martyrdom, Peter new if he stayed in Rome he would be put to death,But thought if he died now the mission is over. Well on his way out He saw the Father going back to the place Peter was leaving. When Peter saw this he ran up to the Lord and said, Lord where are you going, the Father replied,”Peter I am going to be crucified again”, Peter new immediatly and returned to take His Place. If some knew the Truth from the begining, that a calling from the Father is usually not a choice and goes against every thought we could conceive in our mind, remember when you ask “They will be done” it is no longer your will, if you are truly listening to the Father.Elohim Bless and Peace only and Always in the name of Yeshua. Matthew
Elohim barah ahavah emet teshuvah.Yeshua is yeshuah.
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“The abuse of the concept of “calling” creates serious injury to people in the church and can lead to poor or cowardly choices”.
Anthony, This is an article that I couldn’t disagree with more!
It is not only totally judgmental, but seems to me to be a conclusion that seeks to discourage people from following the “leading” of the Lord.
There are more than enough disparagers here on the WMB without your helping them.
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God does tell us to pray for wisdom. I will assume he gives it to us. Yes, we can use many things as excuses, including waiting for a special revelation for all kinds of things. God expects us to use our brains, many advisors, his word and all other methods he uses to speak to us. Sometimes we are so busy determining everything ourselves that he can’t get through to us what he wants.
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I think if one thinks in terms of a specific “word from the Lord” then a specific life calling is quite rare. As far as sensing God’s leading to go to a certain place, or stay there, because the needs or opportunities fit one’s life experience, spiritual gifts, etc., I do think that God can fit things together to make His will clear. I also don’t think there’s usually just one right thing a person can do. “Marry this specific person and your life will be perfect, and don’t marry him/her and you’ll never again be in the will of God” is disastrous reasoning.
Here’s one place in the real world I’m seeing “calling” misused: single men are deciding to stay single unless God points them to a certain woman or makes really, really clear that they should marry. They’re using “single” as their default mode unless “called” to marry, when in fact the norm of Christian life should be marriage. An occasional person is called to singleness (Nancy Leigh DeMoss, for instance, and I once knew a man who spent many years of his life preparing to go to an area of the world in missions where he believed it was best to go single). But unless one’s life calling (and this use of the word is a good one, and I won’t drop it) . . . unless one’s life calling is clearly best done single, then I would say marriage is the norm and one doesn’t have to be specifically “called” to it.
The worst example I saw of this was actually on a tape about courtship and dating. The man speaking had mostly wise things to say (cautions against giving one’s heart away, etc.), but he used the example of the first human marriage to say that a man should be like Adam and “go to sleep” as far as his desires for a wife until God “wakes him up” and makes it clear that this is the one. Does a person make any other decision that way–getting a job, buying a home? And does God normally speak to everyday life experiences: this is the right company to send your resume, this is the right person to marry (even though you don’t know the person yet)? Not in my experience. I’ve heard of singles having sex because “God told them to.” Bypassing Scripture and the brain, and blaming it on God, is dangerous.
I do think, however, that one can be fairly sure something is of the Lord in many situations without a specific vocal “calling.”
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what is the problem is a poor uderstand of what is Bibical “calling” and what is not.
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I agree with #3 Rondu completely! ! ! ! ! ! !
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Does God “call” people to ZIP codes? What is wrong with just saying that you want to live somewhere because you like the place? Why spiritualize it?
To zip codes? YES! What is wrong is not acknowledging the spirit’s guidance! ! ! !
Frankly Dr Meeks does not seem to be much of a scholar at all. “In ALL THY WAYS acknowledge Him and He shall direct thy paths.”
Shame on you Anthony. You need more time on your knees and less time at the word processor!.
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Perhaps “calling” is a poor choice of words, but how can we, as Christians, deny that God directs or leads us in certain directions? As I just e-mailed to a fellow poster this morning, I am currently in a job that isn’t 100% to my liking but I feel that this is where God wants me. I’ve seen His hand VERY clearly in the past relating to making job changes (including this current one) that I refuse to believe that I’m merely following my own selfish desires.
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The more I think about it, the more I agree with Monty. This post flies in the face of everything we Christians believe about God’s direction in our lives. I agree – shame on you, Anthony.
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I don’t think Anthony Bradley is denying the phenomenon of “being led by God,” per se, but the elevation of all things tantamount to God’s calling David to be king, and the like. Cheryl D. says it well enough, but “calling” in scripture has a limited meaning now “abuse[d],” as Mr. Bradley puts it, by many Christians.
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I will have to think about this one. I used to think calling was way overused. Then I started using it as in, “everybody needs to be doing that to which he is called, not all are called to the same.” If calling is only for salvation, it is overused. If it is for calling from our Shepherd to do the work He has prepared for us, it seems to make sense we would go where He has the work. And we should serve where He has placed us. Is that a calling? Isn’t He calling throughout our lives?
I have used it heard in what I considered odd ways, as an excuse to sin even. “He has called me to divorce my husband because I am supposed to go live with that guy over there.”
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“I have used it heard..” huh? I have heard it used… Does dyslexia work that way too?
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Could some of this be a denominational difference? I agree, we sometimes try to justify a hunch with the “sense of calling,” when it’s really a preference. But as a committed believer, if I suspect anything in my heart like that, it should send me back to prayer, consultation with spiritual leaders, reading the word and yet another examination of my heart.
I guess my question to you, Anthony, would be “do you feel you’ve every experienced a calling?” And if not, is that perhaps why you are uncomfortable with the notion?
I also don’t think we’re necessarily “called” to do things we don’t want to do. For a fuller examination of this concept, see Decision Making and the Will of God by Gary Friesen; a classic that was very helpful for me.
I am in my current job because I feel I’ve been called there. I see that word “feel.”
Logically my job makes no sense for me, but when I’ve wrestled with quitting (twice in the last year), the answer seems to have been “no.” Friends, my husband, prayer, and a reminder of the original “call” have indicated I need to stay for now. Most days I’m content with that decision. But then, when I think of all the things I might rather be doing . . . I waffle. It’s the call, in part, that keeps me where I am.
Ending thoughts? Test the spiritual pulse of the person claiming to have received a call before tossing the entire spiritual disicpline out the window.
Blessings to all.
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I can see what Mr. Bradley is saying somewhat. Often people use the phrase “the Lord led me” or “the Lord showed me” to do such and such. These phrases can be used as a way to deter others from refuting this “leading”. Well, if the Lord led you, who am I to say anything? And yet some “leadings” merit challenging.
On the other hand, God DOES lead by circumstances, trials, and just plain divine intervention. Others may not see it or agree with it, but that’s where faith comes in. It seems a better phrase should be, “I believe that this is how God is leading” (and of course God always has the loving prerogative of leading in another direction).
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Was I called to give up the joys of empty nesting to feel the nest with little folk? To give up the money that was going to take me to visit the grandkids? To give up my joy of gardening? And dog walking? And the solitude of camping for a mass of humanity? Well, if one is called to do that which one does not want to do, I suppose so. But, on the other hand, I have always thought God wanted us to have more kids in the home. and they are a whole lot more interesting and life giving than the peaceful existence we had. So has He called me to do what I love over the things I thought I loved?
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that would be fill, not feel
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Michelle,
If it was me you were attempting to quote, I didn’t say I felt called, I said “I feel that this is where God wants me.” I think there is a subtle difference. Since I feel that this is where God wants me, I have no qualms about saying that this is my calling for now. No big deal (it’s so hard to insinuate tone in a written post), just continuing the conversation.
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Mumsee, I think that PEOPLE are always where it’s at.
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Mumsee,
Funny how the brain works. When I read “I have used it heard..” in your original post, I read it as you intended it. I had to go back and look at it again to see that it was wrong after you posted a correction.
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What are we called to?
1. We are calling into a right relationship with Christ.
2. People are called into the Ministry.
3. People are called into the Leadership of God’s House.
4. Minister called to preach the sermons they preached.
5. We are called to a certain Church.
All Calling must be backed by God’s Word.
What are we not called to?
1. What out side job we work at.
2. What items we buy.
3. who we are to married.
4. who we are going to be friends with.
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I think this post is pretty good. When I was in my early teens my church was having a mission trip to Nicaragua (where the pastor’s wife was from). I really really wanted to go and decided that God had called me.
Unfortunately, I was wrong; the trip fell through due to the political situation and all I got was a hepititas vaccine, some theft prevention knowledge, and some Spainish (which, come to think of it, are not bad things to have). I found that I had been superimposing MY wants over God’s: so I guess I got a valuable lesson out of the experience as well.
I am sure some people get guidence on mundane things in their life but we should exercise caution. God’s ways are higher then our ways and His thoughts higher than our thoughts.
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Spot on as usual Mr. Bradley.
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#19 Mommy, I did the same thing!
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MOMMY (#8),
EXACTLY!
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I’m one of those who has never experiences a sense of being “called.” (I do believe I was called to salvation and am always called to holy living, but I don’t have an “experience” of that calling in any way that I would associate with the word “call.”)
As a teenager, I was largely convinced that I was called to be a missionary, but I knew that it was something I wanted to do and something that I knew there was a need for that my background and abilities and interests seemed to fit, and not something I had a definite sense of “call” to. I was encouraged by some missionaries who said that everyone was called to missions, and you should go unless you had a definite call to stay home. In the end I went in another direction, a combination of not getting a letter of recommendation for a short-term missions trip from my pastor, and my growing interest in using my ability with linguistics to teach in a Christian school.
I remember being asked, during my interview at the school that hired me, whether I had a sense of being called there. I replied that I had never had a specific sense of calling like that, but I was praying about it, and I knew the board of directors was praying, and as they were older and more mature Christians, I was trusting that God would direct them whether I belonged there.
The year there was an absolute disaster. It probably would have been the same just about anywhere. I can teach Spanish (and other subjects), but I have a big problem with controlling any group of children (any group bigger than 2 or 3, anyway). Long after this, I learned that my personality type is better suited to jobs like computer programming, which I enjoy and do well at.
I wondered sometimes whether God called me there to teach me what it felt like to fail, as I had gone through sixteen years of schooling without ever experiencing significant failure. Other times I concluded that it had been just my determination to do something I really wanted to do, and the board of directors believed that I was called there because that fit with how they expected to find teachers.
When my husband became a pastor, I struggled with the idea of calling. He sense a calling to the ministry, and others in the church we attended and at his seminary confirmed it. I had no sense of him being called, or us being called. I told him that I was willing to trust his sense of it and others’ confirmation, and clearly if he was called to be a pastor, then I was called to be a pastor’s wife, since we were already married. He wasn’t happy with that, and really wanted me to be able to feel called myself and not just going along, but I couldn’t claim a call I didn’t feel.
I had very bad feelings about the church that called him, in Michigan, but as it was the first call and it meant leaving behind the only place I had ever made real friends, and lived for 14 years, I didn’t know whether it was really the church, or the step out into the unknown.
We stayed at the church five years, and during that time some very good things happened, although in the end it was the issues I had been concerned about in the beginning that led to my husband’s resignation. Then he was called to a church in Illinois, and I felt pretty good about that one – although still no sense of “call.”
They asked him to resign after 6 months. As you can imagine, we both question our ability to sense God’s leading now, regardless of whether you call it “call” or not.
But I do have to say, that from the first morning I set foot in the church where he has been preaching since November, I wanted it to become our home. Effective May 1, he will be their 1/4 time pastor.
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Pastor Roy (post 20), actually one of the “weirdest” senses of the word “calling” has, to me, always been this idea that one is “called” to be a pastor or a missionary, but any other job . . . well, you just do it because you want to. I really don’t think it’s that simple. I think all Christians (pastors or not) should do whatever work (including homeschooling children) is fitting for the dreams, spiritual gifts, talents, and life experience that God has given, under the authority of Scripture, and backed up by godly people confirming or denying that the place is a good match. Sometimes one can only see in retrospect that the placement was a perfect match, a God-ordained perfect fit. But I doubt that even pastors or missionaries usually get a specific word from the Lord, and some people in other callings do. And sometimes the sense of God’s “calling” is more along the line of “stay where you are” then it is “go do such and such.”
But this idea that only “ministry” receives a specific call, that it is somehow a step up the spiritual ladder from being a homeschool mom or a businessman, is one of the oddest things about modern evangelicalism.
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A bigger issue is when a man senses he is called to ordained ministry. Does the wife get a calling too? I liken it to soldiers who want to go into the Special Forces. Even the recruiters for
SF stress that for married soldiers going into SF training and its attendant life has to be a JOINT decision reached by husband and wife.
It is probably the same with ministry. Men who come into pastorate after civilian work often take a pay increase but often too men walk away from lucrative jobs, businesses they’ve built and ran well.
This is a good essay Anthony.
Calls to mind the church jargon translator: “I dont feel led at this time..” means you cannot make me.
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Cheryl, I believe that 2 Timothy 4 should be taken to heart by ALL believers:
“2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.”
“5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.”
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Pastor Roy (#20),
Wouldn’t you agree that, if we are walking with the Lord and listening to Him, he will, at least, LEAD us to:
Our job ( what ever we do outside of our ministry),
What we purchase,
Who we should marry (this one is rather important),
Who we should become close friends with??
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Does the wife get a calling too? – Sawgunner, yes
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RonDu – what is the different between leading and calling?
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2 Timothy 4
Preach the Word
1 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at[a] His appearing and His kingdom: 2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
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On the subject of receiving a “word from the Lord” that is binding: I was helping a friend prepare for her wedding. Her mother was in town some months or weeks before the wedding, and one of the agenda items for that day was to go to a particular florist. The florist was one who needed appointments far in advance, so they had made it. On the day of the appointment, my friend said to her mom, “I really feel God telling me to call and cancel that appointment,” and her mom said, “If God is telling you to do that, you’d better do it!” So she did.
Meanwhile I stood there and wanted to say (but didn’t): “You have made a promise to this person that you will come, and taken a spot on her schedule. Calling her with no reason, or with ‘a word from God’ will be potentially a bad testimony, and the God who tells us to keep our word is not likely to be telling you on the very day of a long-scheduled appointment that you’re supposed to cancel it. Testing this ‘word from the Lord’ against Scripture would seem to me to say that this word is thus probably not from the Lord, and you should keep the appointment that you made.”
I didn’t speak up, because “a word from the Lord” is such a “trump card.” If her mother hadn’t spoken, I might have said something, but I wasn’t going to dispute both of them! Still, it bothered me, that some nebulous “feeling” can be declared a word from the Lord and thus unarguable.
Pauline, on calling: I do think that a church may call a pastor to a specific church, and that such a “calling” may be God speaking through the church, or it may not–the same as with any job. I agree with you that a wife is called to what her husband is called to, and if he is led to it, that is enough. (She may have a better sense that he is or isn’t “supposed to” take this job offer, however, and can state such things as part of his decision making–but if she has no such sense, and he does, then she quite simply has “enough” of a call. I also think of marriage itself as the same way–a man calls a woman to be his wife, and she may say no . . . but the calling itself comes from him, as the calling to be a pastor or a professor comes from others outside oneself, possibly with a confirmation from God.)
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Hopesprings (post 28), why is that Scripture applicable to all believers? I personally am not called to preach (I cannot, as a woman, be called to preach in a pastoral role, as other Scriptures make clear). Yes, I’m called to speak the Word, and part of that for me at this time in my life is to hang out on this blog, but 1 and 2 Timothy were written to a specific man with a calling to be a pastor. (That doesn’t mean it isn’t relevant to the rest of us, but it isn’t written to us . . . unless we also accept that all of us must drink a little wine for the sake of our stomachs or take Paul his cloak. The circumstances of a letter to an individual with a calling to be a pastor MUST be considered to have correct interpretation and application of the book.)
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MATTHEWJOSEPH (#2),
Again, I ask,
Please give us citations!!!
And again, I say, if you are quoting some source other than the Bible as scripture, you are on a VERY slippery slope!!!
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1 Corinthians 12:27-29 (New International Version)
27Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. 29Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?
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Cheryl D. – any calling from God to do anything must be backed and confrim by God’s Word.
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Pastor Roy (#31),
Personally, I don’t believe that there is any difference.
But, It is a matter of degree. I think that your definition of the word “calling” is less inclusive than mine.
In other words, our “leading” would certainly include our “calling” -in my opinion.
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Oh that I felt as led to follow the Lord Jesus wherever leads as I usually feel compelled to evaluate how other people are following Him.
I agree with MACRUTABAGA #10 “I don’t think Anthony Bradley is denying the phenomenon of “being led by God,” per se, but the elevation of all things tantamount to God’s calling David to be king, and the like. Cheryl D. says it well enough, but “calling” in scripture has a limited meaning now “abuse[d],” as Mr. Bradley puts it, by many Christians.”
The Bible uses specific words for good reasons. We ought not ignore the distinctions.
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I may be “lead” to speak to someone at the story about God’s Word.
I am “Called” to be a Pastor.
I may be “lead” to go to a certain college.
I am “called” to work at a certain Church.
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Cheryl #34, I didn’t catch that term “pastor” in 2 Ti. 4.
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First, YES to #39.
Second, my own addition: I do certainly believe that God leads, directs, guides, checks, inspires, pushes, and yes, calls us, in all kinds of situations. As with others, I could give many examples. But in the sense that Anthony and Dr. Meek discuss the term, I believe they’re right and am glad Anthony spoke out. Cheryl, I have been in situations where I felt the way you did with the florist appointment. The too-easy use of the idea that “God told me” is often manipulative, though perhaps unconsciously so.
In Dr. Bradley’s first sentence he makes clear he is talking about the abuse of the concept of “calling”, and the rest of his thoughts bear that out.
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Pastors’ wives are an often-overlooked part of the ministerial package (Search committee interviewer to would-be pastor interviewee: Can your wife sing? Play piano? Organ? Work in the nursery? Oh and what exactly are your credentials again??”)
I’m reading a HILARIOUS book
I do wish WMB book reviewer would tackle it but perhaps its simply too light fare for Dr Olasky et al.
The book is “You Can Still Wear Cute Shoes” by Lisa McKay. Subtitled AND OTHER GREAT ADVICE FROM AN UNLIKELY PREACHER’S WIFE
Which made me laugh wondering if it was the wife of an unlikely preacher.
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If a wife is not called she can be a hinder to the pastor who is called.
I tell people who say they are called is your husband or wife called. The reason God is not going to call the one without calling or confirm in the other the calling.
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Hopesprings, no, the word “pastor” isn’t in there–but Timothy is told to “preach” (not my calling) and “do the work of an evangelist” (which is neither my calling nor my spiritual gift–though ALL Christians do indeed have some responsibility to evangelize, not all “do the work of an evangelist” because not all are evangelists). Timothy is a pastor; I am not. I have relatives who are pastors, and one who is an evangelist. Their calling is different from mine, though there is some overlap in what the calling is for all Christians (and that includes evangelism). The distinction is a relevant one.
Someone once said, and I found it interesting, that nearly all the spiritual gifts are also commands. Not all have the gift of giving, but all are to give. Not all have the gift of mercy, but all are to show mercy. And so forth. The sign gifts and (to some extent) the speaking gifts are the exception. (We are all responsible to teach others to some extent.) But our specific calling and gifts will reflect how much we focus on each particular gift/command. I can help an author communicate in an evangelistic way better than I can do evangelism myself, for instance. And I’m probably better at apologetics (pre-evangelism) than at outright evangelism. It’s all part of the needs of the body.
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Pastor Roy, if a wife doesn’t submit to and support her husband, and respect him, she can be a hindrance to him. I don’t think it necessarily has much to do with her own “calling” to the ministry, or lack of it. She is called to be his help meet; if she is not doing that, then she is hindering him. She may not be naturally gifted at being a pastor’s wife, but if she is the wife of a pastor, then she is called to be a pastor’s wife whether or not she has an actual “feeling” of such a calling. If he’s a businessman, she’s likewise called to be a businessman’s wife (and to come alongside him in lay ministry).
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Cheryl D. – that why I said “The reason God is not going to call the one without calling or confirm in the other the calling. “
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“Hopesprings (post 28), why is that Scripture applicable to all believers?”
And the church sleeps while they dozingly whisper and self-excludingly internalize, “let the paid guy do it. That’s what we pay him for. We can’t preach Christ crucified.”
“But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;” (1Co 1:23)
My, what would happen if all the people of God were ever on fire to “preach the Word”.
You’d be amazed at students on campuses, knowing the Word of God, impacting those all around them.
Don’t wait around for “titles”.
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Nicely, put, Anthony. I do wonder about neighborhood choice, though. For those of us who have made intentional decisions to live in specific neighborhoods in an effort to be forces for positive change in those areas — to spruce things up, get to know our neighbors, help lower crime, etc. — we probably view our eventual decision as one highly motivated by a very specific call.
In fact, I might argue that most anytime Christians make choices that others find irrational or downright silly or stupid, those are probably choices to which our Savior called us in very specific ways to do things that might not be easy. Serving Him is always rich overall, though often not easy in the day-to-day.
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I talked to a guy one day at college. We were in out Pastoral Ministry Class. He was tell me why he was going to be a pastor. He told me that His Great-Grand Father was a Pastor, His Grand-Father was a Pastor, His Father was a Pastor, His Uncles were Pastors, His Brothers were Pastor. So he was going to be a Pastor. Never once did he said God has called me to be a Pastor.
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Mytoosense, part of the disagreement here may be a disagreement between you and me on either (1) the definition of the word “preach” or (2) whether it’s something women are allowed to do. I don’t know you well enough to know which one. I think of preaching, minimally, as meaning speaking in public (and I do think women are allowed to preach to other women, and I myself have taught small groups). But by the standard definition of “preach,” I don’t think it has anything to do with “titles,” but I do think that not all men are called to preach, and while an occasional women may be called to preach to women in some settings, my being a woman does indeed mean I’m not called to preach. I didn’t say I’m not called to be a pastor or an elder; that part is a given. But I don’t believe I’m called to preach, either. I am called to speak to people one-on-one and occasionally in larger groups, even in formal teaching environments, but not to preach. But that has nothing at all to do with “titles,” but with one’s sphere of calling.
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Roy, would you have noticed that or wondered about it (post 50) if he had said that all of those relatives were farmers, and thus he was going to be a farmer? Again, I don’t think the pastorate or missions work ought to be the only “callings” requiring a specific calling–either way, that those two require a specific calling, or that one chooses another profession without God’s guidance. I don’t see why a choice to be a pastor is different from any other way to serve God, serve people, and support one’s family with income.
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Acts 13
1 Now in the church that was at Antioch there were certain prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. 2 As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, “Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3 Then, having fasted and prayed, and laid hands on them, they sent them away
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I don’t think I was called to my current job, but rather placed in it, or rather shoved into it. There are times when I don’t understand why I’ve ended up where I’ve ended up until AFTER the job is over.
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Cheryl D. 04.07.10 AT 3:19 PM
Roy, would you have noticed that or wondered about it (post 50) if he had said that all of those relatives were farmers, and thus he was going to be a farmer?
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not at all but God is the one who cals people into the Ministry. We do not just do it for the money (lack of). We do not do it for the late night or early calls from the people. Or dealing with haft the church up set over not using the king James version or the other haft of the church being up set because you are using the king james version.
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Roy (#53),
I don’t see how your post answers Cheryls posts at #26,#51 & #52.
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“to which I have called them”
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1 Corinthians 12:27-29 (New International Version)
27Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. 29Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?
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the idea of appointed first holds the idea of being called.
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There is a different being called to preach the word then taken over the farm from dad. If you are going to pastor with out God’s calling then who authorized are you using?
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I may be “lead” to speak to someone at the story about God’s Word.
I am “Called” to be a Pastor.
I may be “lead” to go to a certain college.
I am “called” to work at a certain Church.
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One comment by one person here “called” on me to reply. After about 30 seconds of thinking, I decided that my comment might be to personal and might hurt that person’s feelings. Although it was not the primary reason for my decision, I also thought the web Editor might be purturbed and delete my comment and send me a warning. So I was called again, and I am not posting that comment. I leave it to your imagination.
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Pastor Roy,
As Anthony acknowledges in his post, there are some notable exceptions where people in the Bible were called in a very specific way, and I would be inclined to put your example from Acts 13 in that category.
The passage from 1 Cor. 12 lists eight different gifts, and presumably wasn’t intended to be an exhaustive list, since Paul lists other gifts in other passages. If each of us has at least one spiritual gift (as I have always been taught, though I forget which verse is used to support this), then it would seem that all Christians are called to use their gifts. But where and how isn’t necessarily part of the call – at least not in my experience. If I waited until I sensed a “call” to teach Sunday School, then I wouldn’t be doing it. But other people who work with me confirm that I belong in that ministry.
I don’t think that being an ordained leader in a church is the only way to use the gift of “shepherding” (what a pastor does), and while today’s pastors are almost always expected to preach, there are some who clearly have the gift of “shepherding” but do not preach well at all.
I would agree there is a definite call to pastor/shepherd, as well as to any of the other spiritual gifts. But I’m not convinced that there is the same kind of call to the particular “career choice” of being “a pastor” of a church as it is usually structured today.
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would agree there is a definite call to pastor/shepherd, as well as to any of the other spiritual gifts. But I’m not convinced that there is the same kind of call to the particular “career choice” of being “a pastor” of a church as it is usually structured today.
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what is the differents for being call to pastor/shepherd and career choice” of being “a pastor?
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People who choicse the path of being a pastor without God’s Calling. Is doing it for the wrong reason.
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Pastor Roy,
Shepherding people has to do with guiding them in the right direction, helping them find the resources they need to grow, warning them of dangers, going after those who start to stray – just as a shepherd does with sheep. That may mean doing the preaching and leading worship and counseling that a typical pastor does, but it doesn’t have to. A man with the gift of pastoring could be leading a men’s group, or a group of young people or children. A woman with the gift of pastoring could be leading a women’s group.
That person may not have the gift of administration, which is generally expected by churches looking to hire a “pastor.” My husband does not have that gift, and makes it known to pastor nominating committees that they need someone else to handle that aspect of the work.
That person with the gift of shepherding also may be a poor public speaker, yet as I mentioned above the pastor of a church is almost always expected to preach at Sunday worship service.
Why should someone with a gift of pastoring assume that he is called to be a professional “pastor”? And why should churches assume that they need to be led by one person who combines the gifts of pastoring, leadership, administration, discernment, etc.? (As a pastor’s wife I’ve read through a lot of job descriptions of what churches are looking for when they call a pastor.) I’m not against having paid pastors, unlike some visitors to this blog. But I think it has hurt the church to equate the gift of pastoring with the position of pastor as most churches think of it.
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Quote myself #28:
“Cheryl, I believe that 2 Timothy 4 should be taken to heart by ALL believers:
‘2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.’
‘5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.’”
I don’t have to be a pastor (or even a man) to preach the Word. While I don’t agree that women should be in leadership positions, women who share Christ with an open Bible are preaching the Word. All believers should be preaching the Word and not just from the pulpit.
All believers should be instant in season and out of season, reproving, rebuking and exhorting. All believers should be watching, enduring, evangelizing and involved in ministry.
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“..I decided that my comment might be to personal and might hurt that person’s feelings..”
random
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The potential for that lies in the fact of your fallen spiritual condition..
..but you already know that.
Thus, the agnostic hiding, “…amongst the trees..”
“And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.” Gen. 3:8
1) If you think you have a sense of your sin,
2) it’s only the tip of the iceberg.
If you think you have a sense of the depths of the victory that took place at Calvary, see #2
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Pauline – a pastor is called by God to the Church. The problem is we no longer understand what it means to be called by God. We have made the position of Pastor into a job not a calling.
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#67
Please read #68 carefully.
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Random Name – do you have a question about my comment at 68?
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Intuition vs Intellect food fight much
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Victora used the passage I think it fits here
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Acts 20
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When we make Pastor into a job position an not a calling we open the door for versus 30 to happen
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Random- I just feel called to tell you that your calling post was funny
and after a long day it was nice to laugh, thank you!
Our particular church does not use the term called. I can tell you that 33 years ago when I met me future husband we decided that God could use us best as a team and after serving faithfully in the military for 22 years we would find a small church and serve that congregation. We have done that now for 10 years. I am very sad that my husband will no longer be a minister. I have loved being the “pastors wife” because the qualities needed God has blessed me with. I guess I will have to use my gifts elsewhere.
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I certainly wish I’d feel more called a lot of the time. I hate making decisions, and I feel like I can never know which choice would be best or what I’d prefer.
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So remotely apart from any ministry, I’ve had several lifetime decisions to make when I wasn’t even asking for God’s leading or calling, yet went ahead with what my brain and “gut” said were best.
It was only after the fact that I realized I had done what He wanted. Then I gave Him belated thanks and glory to make everyone else know how He had worked so perfectly in my life for the everlasting benefit of my sons.
Much more recently I struggled with a medical choice and came down to what I was comfortable with, being open to and trusting God’s leading.
I would never second-guess anyone else’s assertion that they were led or called by God. Who am I to question that, especially when God does not always lead us into the best of circumstances!
When God gives us the wisdom we pray for, it isn’t necessarily within our understanding.
And
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And I’m not about to boast about tomorrow in advance of God’s perfect plans. Amen.
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Louise,
I would second-guess someone else’s assertion that they were led by God if it was to do something that is clearly contrary to Scripture – which you wouldn’t think someone would try to do, but I’ve heard of examples (”God is leading me to leave my husband/wife to marry this other person”). But other than that, I agree with you.
One problem with a major emphasis on “God led me to…” is that it leaves young Christians thinking there’s something wrong with them if they don’t sense leading in a specific direction, and trying to find something that they can interpret as God’s leading. Then rather than learning to actually follow God’s leading (which as you point out is often recognized only after the fact), they may be either dependent on emotions and circumstances to make their decisions, paralyzed by indecision, or feeling guilty for not hearing God as others do.
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Pauline, important points and examples I never encountered.
I think immature yearnings for clear signs and direction from God can be honored or tempered with studying His word in the company of seasoned Christians who remember where they also began.
I’m rather conservative having been reared in the LCMS and now attending an OPC church. I’m eternally grateful for His leading and teaching in those contexts.
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Nice job, Anthony.
I once taught organic chemistry at an evangelical college. In a typical year, about half of the first-semester class consisted of kids who had been “called” to be physicians. But for many of these would-be physicians, their “calling” did not seem to include putting in the necessary hours to learn the subject matter. In a sense, the notion of “calling” seemed to be a hindrance for these students. They seemed to believe that the Holy Spirit would implant the knowledge in their heads. Thus, they felt free to spend their days playing sports and video games instead of studying.
Inevitably, these non-studying students would parade through my office at the beginning of the second semester to obtain my signature on their withdrawal slips. They had largely received low Cs or Ds in my class, and recognized that their hopes of attending medical school were gone. But only a few students ever confessed the real reason for their failure: laziness, lack of commitment, aversion to hard work, etc. More often than not, my evangelical students would confess that the Lord had used my course to show them that they were actually “called” to be doing something different, such as youth ministry.
Like Anthony, I don’t deny that the Holy Spirit can sometimes move people in particular ways. But more often than not, we use the concept of “calling” to spiritualize our fleshly desires.
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#70
I just disagree. I don’t think there is any way to know if a person is “called” by a [probably] non-existent God. You argue that there is a way, I think.
We disagree on most things.
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Pauline,
Be not discouraged. Remember that Paul was Saul before he received his call on the Road to Damascus.
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Pastor Roy,
God also called Abram to leave Ur, Joshua to lead His people into the Promised Land (governing, not preaching), and in other ways called people to specific places in biblical times. As a rule, He doesn’t speak as directly to those of us who live after the closing of the canon. But yes, in biblical times He seems to have called people to other positions than we “expect” today.
It seems to me as though if we say that those entering the pastorate or the mission field must have a specific calling from God (to the point where one would even question the motives of someone who’d dare seek such a ministry without such a calling), but simultaneously assume someone in another position won’t have a “call” from God to that position, we end up with a two-level Christianity–”professional ministry” and others–and I don’t see that as biblical. We all have spiritual gifts, and we all have our place in the body.
I won’t question the calling of someone who says he is called to ministry (unless he is clearly unqualified biblically), but neither would I question the calling of someone who says God has placed him as a manager in a grocery store. And I also won’t judge the motives of someone who says God has gifted and prepared him for pastoral ministry, but no, he can’t name a precise “calling” to it. If a church calls him to be their pastor, that is calling enough.
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Rondu #35. whose slope am I slippery on yours? That is of no concern to me, only the Truth in the Lord. You can follow mans edicts if you like, But I follow the Fathers not man. The works I am quoting from are the Acts of Peter and the Acts of Thomas. Learn the begining then you can discuss with me the ending. I only have one Father, and I know His name. Elohim Bless and Peace only comes in the name of Yeshua.Elohim barah ahavah emet teshuvah.Yeshua is yeshuah. Matthew
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MatthewJoseph
the Acts of Thomas – an what Bible are you using?
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Cheryl D. – I believe in todays Churches we lack the Bibical understand of what it means to be called by God.
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Anthony,
I haven’t read anyone else’s comments yet, but I want to say that I agreed whole-heartedly with your post.
I’ve even had people tell me that they were “called” to do something that they then were “called” to quit 3 months later! Gee, God sure does change his mind a lot according to these people.
We are “called” to follow the Bible and Christ. It is in these where God has given us His blueprint.
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I do think it is rather interesting that God “calls” more people proportionately to ministry locales where the weather is pleasant. I also find it interesting that we have more “called” people serving in the U.S. where the preachers are falling all over each other trying to keep their sheep in their respective pens while the 2/3 world screams out for preachers to answer the “call” to their countries.
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James Ch 4:13 following…
If it is the Lord’s will we will do this or that.
Frankly, there isnt anything wrong with seeking the Lord’s direction and going where you believe he is leading you. There is nothing wrong with spiritualizing your personal discussion with the Lord on where he wants you to be.
Can it be abused or mistaken by us? Sure. But the whole point of prayer is to conversate with God about what he has done for us, and what he wants for us, and where he wants us to be and what he wants us to be doing.
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“Gee, God sure does change his mind a lot according to these people.”
Not necessarily. What God starts or begins, he can bring to an end as he desires, even if he only wanted it for 3 months.
Who do you look to for direction, if not Him? The Holy Spirit always seems pretty convicting when we arent where we are supposed to be too.
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Thorn, do you see any issue with this idea of turn the position of Pastor into job and not a calling?
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#87 should read “disproportionately. ” Rather than “proportionately.” There is no need to spititualize what God had stated simply. Commandment #1, commandment #2, and the Great Commission, which is better rendered “as you go, make disciples of all nations.”
In other words, be a witness wherever you find yourself and wherever you go.
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Dr. Bradley, You raise an excellent point. I’m going to have to do some word studies on “calling”–Will respond later!!
Ciao for now!! mjD
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Pastor Roy, you still haven’t really answered my question: Do you support what seems to be modern evangelicalism’s belief that pastor and missionary are “callings,” but pretty much anything else is simply a “job” that doesn’t require a specific calling from God? If so, why–what biblical evidence do you have that God calls people to some jobs / professions / callings and not to others?
And why are we supposed to be suspicious of a man who enters an interview to be a pastor and explains that he has spiritual gifts, talents, experience, and desires commensurate with the pastorate, but no, he can’t say he has experienced a specific “call”? He has a heart for ministry; others have affirmed his wisdom; and he believes that God has gifted and prepared him for ministry. Why is such a man treated with suspicion? I mean, the Bible actually tells men to aspire to the office of elder (I forget the reference)–seeking to be a pastor is a good thing, if one isn’t doing it for some perceived perks of ministry. (And why would anyone seek it as just a “job,” anyway?)
So again, do you think pastor and missionary require a specific call (you’ve said yes to this one), that other jobs don’t, and if you see a difference, why? All men are called to take care of their families–that is enough of a calling to “get a job” that no man can sit around for months waiting for the leading of God before he takes a job of some kind. And if a church without a pastor approaches a man and points out that his gifts and qualifications match what they are looking for, and he prays about the situation and it is indeed a good fit (but he doesn’t receive a “specific word from the Lord”), why is that not enough?
Admittedly, we have denominational differences. The PCA church is less likely to look to subjective “leadings from God” than is the Pentecostal church. But I’m asking for support from Scripture for a pastor requiring a specific word from the Lord, and whether other jobs do so as well. (Being a pastor may in a sense be “more than a job,” but it is a job. And all of us are supposed to do our jobs for God; I don’t see that the pastorate is unique in this.)
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what biblical evidence do you have that God calls people to some jobs / professions / callings and not to others?
Acts 13
1 Now in the church that was at Antioch there were certain prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. 2 As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, “Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3 Then, having fasted and prayed, and laid hands on them, they sent them away
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28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Acts 20
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1 Corinthians 12:27-29 (New International Version)
27Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. 29Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?
Jesus called the 12 to follow Him, and He picked them to be his inner circle.
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Do you support what seems to be modern evangelicalism’s belief that pastor and missionary are “callings,” but pretty much anything else is simply a “job” that doesn’t require a specific calling from God? If so, why–what biblical evidence do you have that God calls people to some jobs / professions / callings and not to others?
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I support the biblical idea of calling. The role of a Pastor is a calling not a job. A job is someome who is hire to perform a task.
An must obey those who hire him.
A Pastor is a calling and must obey the one who called him.
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So again, do you think pastor and missionary require a specific call (you’ve said yes to this one), that other jobs don’t, and if you see a difference, why?
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any work being done in the Church is a ministry an must be called
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Pastor Roy, I can appreciate what you’re saying. I wonder, though, if being a pastor (as a paid position), there might be the tendency to preach along lines that would not upset the apple cart. I am not accusing you of this at all. I just think that money might have some sway in the courage of the sermon in some (hopefully very few) cases.
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And why are we supposed to be suspicious of a man who enters an interview to be a pastor and explains that he has spiritual gifts, talents, experience, and desires commensurate with the pastorate, but no, he can’t say he has experienced a specific “call”? He has a heart for ministry; others have affirmed his wisdom; and he believes that God has gifted and prepared him for ministry. Why is such a man treated with suspicion? I mean, the Bible actually tells men to aspire to the office of elder (I forget the reference)–seeking to be a pastor is a good thing, if one isn’t doing it for some perceived perks of ministry. (And why would anyone seek it as just a “job,” anyway?)
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First thing I tell people, when we are having a change in Pastor is to pray that God will call the right me to position, and that we the Church will be open to leading of the Holy Spirit in seeing that calling.
In the Pentecostal church I belong to, fill the open position of a pastor in two ways, one the State Bishop bring the man in an say here is your pastor. This is done when the Church is in major trouble. I tell the church to pray for the State Bishop that God will show him the man, God is calling.
The other way is the State Bishop brings in peopel to preach and the church talks to them. After a certain time, the Church gets to vote or the State Bishop again can Apt.
In regardless which way we are to pray that the Man that God’s Call will answer the calling
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hopesprings – yes their is an tempation to do that.
I was a Pastor of a small church of abuot 13 people. I was just starting to get a little bit of money from the Church only $25.00 a week. God called me to preach on a certain issue. He told me that some will not listen other will. I had to make a choice do I preach the message that God called me to or not? Knowing that it was most likly cause some to leave the church.
Can you guess what I did?
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I know I am a late comer to this thread but as I quickly went through the comments, I failed to see any mention of the doctrine of sola scripture (scripture alone). What gets us in trouble is when we elevate anything to the authority level of scripture (as all cults do)or try to make scripture conform to “our own understanding”. This whole discussion also touches on the relationship between the sovereignty of God and the will of man…God calls and man chooses. There is an element of mystery but subjectivism has hijacked the church and undermined the authority of God’s Word.
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Roy, I wouldn’t think $25 a week would be enough to hold body and soul together, but I’m sure you didn’t compromise.
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hopesprings I preached the message, 5 people responded and four people walked out the door never to return. the four that walked out were the one’s paying most of the bills.
Over the nexts year an haft they worked against me in the small town. Last I heard one passed away, his wife stopped going to church and well was well know by the men around that town.
the other two moved back to GA and she left him, after he hit her.
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hopesprings that is a sad thing when the Word of God is preached, an we let our emotions stop us from responding to God.
I still believe today Church has cause damage by looking at the Pastor as a job not a calling.
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Pastor Roy, can’t it be said that ALL Christians have problems when they see their work as only a job, and not as an opportunity to serve God and people? How is the pastorate different? Is it somehow more holy, on a higher status with God? Or can it be said of all jobs that we are to work for the Lord and not just for men? I just don’t see how the pastorate is on a higher level of holiness. It’s a specific place to serve God, just like selling hamburgers is.
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It’s a specific place to serve God, just like selling hamburgers is.
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An that is what is wrong.
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27Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.
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I do not see selling hamburgers in that list as God has appointed ?
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How is the pastorate different?
What is the role of the Pastor?
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Pastor Roy, I doubt there is too much one can say if, someone can’t see the difference between a pastors position and a hamburger flipper.
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Victoria – it goes back to the idea is a Pastor called or is it just a job.
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One of my great teacher is college one day may a statement that stuck in my mind.
Today problems is people no longer understand the role of the Pastor. He went on an said if you ask someone above the age of 60 what is the role of pastor, they will all give you the same type of answer. But if you asked that same question to people under the age of 60 what is the role of the pastor. You will get many different answers.
The reason the lack of Bibical understanding of being called and the role of the pastor.
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I am very passionated about this. One because I am a pastor at heart. I have send people who should never pastor destroy churches and people who are called by God passed over because man refused to listen to God but listen to people.
because they see the position of pastor as a job and stepping stone to the nexts level or because the person family are all pastor so this person must be a pastor.
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Pastor’s are called – anytime you hear a pastor who hasn’t been called it’s obvious – that’s because it’s a gift from GOD.
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Editing is also a gift from God, if you’re talking about God gifting people for service. So is wiping babies’ bottoms. And so is showing mercy to others within the body of Christ. I just don’t see a “hierarchy” in the body of Christ, where one role is more important or more holy than another. Yes, one role has more authority, and greater accountability, but not more importance. In fact, Paul speaks against such an understanding very precisely: Can the eye say to the hand, I have no need of you, etc. The spiritual gifts, and the use of them, aren’t graded A level, B level, etc.
In fact, this idea that the pastor is “called” and the rest of us are not is probably one part of what has made modern Christendom so anemic. This is part of what the Protestant Reformation was meant to overthrow–the idea of professional Christians and second-class Christians. We Protestants aren’t supposed to believe in that; we understand the priesthood of the believer, in which all of us in the body are called to faith and to ministry.
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Even if a man is passed up as a pastor, I believe like the Scripture says “a man’s gift makes room for him”. In fact, I think it’s better (and more biblical) if there are elders (as opposed to a one man ministry).
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Random Name (61): Beyond doubt, you are a master of logorrhea (not a social disease). Or did your cat play “Kitten on the Keys” with your computer?
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Cheryl – I understand what you’re saying, & I agree. Your point is not that pastors are not specifically called to pastor, but that all Christians are called & gifted for our own vocations.
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Thanks, Karen. I was beginning to wonder if I missed a memo or something on some new required belief, that if you weren’t a pastor (or a missionary) you could pretty much do what you want . . . as long as what you “wanted” wasn’t to be a pastor or a missionary and you didn’t have a specific “call” to be one.
The idea of a clergy/laity divide that’s somehow as clear a separation as male/female or black/white was thrown out with the Reformation, or so I thought. (Growing up in fundamentalist Christian circles, I know it’s still hanging in there pretty strong, but I thought it was more an unexamined belief than one that people would actually state and defend.) And I myself have a lot of respect for the pastorate and for pastors–to the point that I’ve put myself under the authority of my pastors if a man were to express interest in me, and I all but asked their permission when I sought to do foster care. I just don’t think that the eye can walk around saying, “I’m an eye, and you’re not!!”
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This passage points to the LORD calling them to preach – GOD chooses who will to teach and preach, it is a gift, a calling from the LORD –
Elders of the New Testament church were the pastors
Paul an ordained preacher, appointed and a teacher by whom? the LORD –
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Romans 10
Paul wrote Romans: He was called, he was given a gift to preach – Paul preached , Paul was sent –
Ephesians
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Victoria, He also gave some the gift of mercy or of helps or of giving–are they less called? He called all of us, in whatever job, to “do our work heartily, as unto the Lord.” Is my work less God-ordained?
No one is saying that pastors should take the job of pastor out of greed or self-promotion or do it half-heartedly. No one is saying God doesn’t give pastors as a gift to the church. We’re protesting this idea of a sacred calling for pastors contrasted with “just a job” and just a parishioner with no important spiritual gifts mindset for everyone outside “full-time ministry.”
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Ordination into the ministry, is very different from all other positions. It is a sacred calling in which the man called is to lead a flock within the church -
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gift is used for the working with in the Church and outside the Church. The calling of a Pastor is to lead the Church and to ensure the gifts of the people are being used correctly within the Church.
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The calling of the Pastor is to preach and teach and direct the Church.
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