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Complaints of cross on Army emblem
The Military Religious Freedom Foundation has recently taken offense to the cross and motto on the emblem of an Army hospital in Colorado, claiming that it violates the separation of church and state, AP reports.
The group has asked the Army to change the emblem of the Evans Army Community Hospital at Fort Carson, which has the motto “Pro deo et humanitate” which means “For God and humanity” written on it. The symbol had been around since 1969.
Fort Carson’s Lt. Col. Steven Wollman said the idea of doctors serving God and humanity predates Christianity to the time of the Greek physician Hippocrates. Also the cross, which has a pointed base, is the symbol of mercy and has been used since the Middle Ages, when pilgrims used a cross with a spiked base to mark the site of a camp.
The Military Religious Freedom Foundation said the sign is a reference to the Crusades and fears that it may encourage U.S. enemies to see the war on terror as a Christian war on Islam.
Just last week, the organization persuaded the Army to disinvited Franklin Graham to a prayer event for his previous comments on Islam.
back to top72 Comments to “Complaints of cross on Army emblem”
The Military Religious Freedom Foundation said they have 43 Soliders and Civilians who came to them over it. Well the Military needs to get the names and remove these 43 soldiers and Civilians for breaken the Chain of Command.
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The Military Religious Freedom Foundation said the sign is a reference to the Crusades and fears that it may encourage U.S. enemies to see the war on terror as a Christian war on Islam.
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this post is 5 miles from my house, you can not see the Hosptial from out side the post. So this idea that are Enemies could use this is a lie. The only way for the enemey would know it is there if a group like The Military Religious Freedom Foundation tells them it is there.
This is another step to remove and Silence Christian.
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“He said they took their concerns to him for fear of reprisals if they complained to military commanders. Weinstein said none wanted to be identified.” from the Ap part.
None wanted to be identified because they know they have broken the Chain of Command and would gact Arct 15, which they deserve for break the Chain of Command. If you can not obey the Chain of Commant with this, then they are a risk to the Solider mission in combat.
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You mean they weren’t satisfied with banning Franklin Graham? I’m shocked, SHOCKED!!!
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We need a new government agency to address this crisis, with an additional tri-partisan Commission of 24 eaperts (each paid $200,000.00 a year) to address this serious concern that is demoralizing our nation as we speak. The government must act NOW! Don’t they care?
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Joel that tri-partisan Commission of 24 eaperts must be part of the Military an made up with memebers of The Military Religious Freedom Foundation and the ACLU and Mulsim to be fair. An this group should be headed up by Rev. Wright.
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I did not know about this offensive outrage against non-religious people before so I cannot claim that it will directly affect my life either way. But surely, if we just let the Military Religious Freedom Foundation have their way on this matter, they will be satisfied, stop attacking public expressions that might be seen as religious, and refrain from doing anything that directly affects me personally.
Right?
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Oastir Roy, I meant “experts.”
Did you smile? Have a good day.
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Joel Mark 04.30.10 AT 1:45 PM
Oastir Roy, I meant “experts.”
Did you smile? Have a good day.
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I look out my front door today since it is facing Fort Carson and the Mtn. I had a very eye open experince. Joel do you know what it is?
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My eye open experience. I must be blind. I live 5 miles away an can not see Evans Army Community Hospital at Fort Carson
And the sign that reads “Pro deo et humanitate” which means “For God and humanity” written on it.
. But some Muslim hiding in a cave thousand of miles away can look out a see Evans Army Community Hospital at Fort Carson
And the sign that reads “Pro deo et humanitate” which means “For God and humanity” written on it. An this is causing him to hate us.
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Victoria, Joel can you two see Evans Army Community Hospital at Fort Carson And the sign that reads “Pro deo et humanitate” which means “For God and humanity” written on it?
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No I can’t see it Pastor Roy – Right now I’m wondering how much more hate is going to be spewed out against what this country held dear from its inception.
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Speaking of blind, I am not quite there. But I am sight impared enough that strange typos get by me because it was in a blind spot when I proof read (that is when I try to proof read). I don’t try to mis-spell names and monikers on purpose (smile again). All due respect.
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I don’t try to mis-spell names and monikers on purpose (smile again). All due respect.
–ha,ha I kow what you mean
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Victoria the sad part is those who had no problem with FG issue, will agree with them here also.
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Joel and Pastor Roy – don’t worry about it, typos are the least of our worries on this blog. God bless you both
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“more hate is going to be spewed out against what this country held dear from its inception. ” Victoria wait to you see the new military rules that will come out once Obama removed don’t ask, don’t tell.
The Military Religious Freedom Foundation will be in the forward front in helping written those rules.
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“it may encourage U.S. enemies to see the war on terror as a Christian war on Islam.”
So? “U.S. enemies” are already enemies.
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It’s an ugly logo, and the constitution makes it clear that it’s not an appropriate one for a state hospital. Changing it is a reasonable request.
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mynock 04.30.10 AT 2:42 PM
It’s an ugly logo, and the constitution makes it clear that it’s not an appropriate one for a state hospital. Changing it is a reasonable request.
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Why? Where in the constitution does it say this sign is wrong
?
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““it may encourage U.S. enemies to see the war on terror as a Christian war on Islam.”
Well it may encourage people whose cooperation we need to see the war on terror as a Christian war on Islam.
Which isn’t really that far fetched if you consider that FOX news launched bogus stories about “Islamic crescents” in the missile defense logo (designed under Bush 2) and the nuclear summit logo! Those of you saying that people should make a big deal out of a logo (and an ugly one at that) need to harmonize your positions!
Since this is quite clearly a Christian symbol being used by the Army (though granted by an Army presence that is pretty domestic), considers about this logo are at least MORE valid than the blithering that we saw when FOX mistook a stylized hydrogen atom for a coded message to Islam radicals!
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Mynock –
The sign of the Cross has been apparent on many different offical buildings, etc., for years. Ignore it if you don’t like it.
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Victoria what about the red cross sign? If this sign is wrong, then where is the Law Suite agains the Red Cross it is on all the Hostipal Vech.?
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Well it may encourage people whose cooperation we need to see the war on terror as a Christian war on Islam. – so it has been there for 60 years, an now there is an issue?
It goes back to this idea you can insult Christian, why? we will not put bomb on our bodies an blow up people. We will not take planes an crash them into building to kill people.
But we must give in to Mulsim because they will put bomb on their bodies an blow up people. They will take planes an crash them into building to kill people.
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Man, the MRFF is getting a lot of press lately for such a ridiculous group. I remember checking out there website – it is quite offensive in the way it goes after any military personnel who expresses his or her faith publically, or even churches that have ministry events for military members from a nearby base…
I wish the media didn’t pick up their “complaints” and give them such a megaphone, so the military ends up giving in – not because what they are doing is any way a violation of the 1st Ammendment, but simply because of the publicity. It’s getting really old – either the military needs to stand up to them or they will very seriously infringe on the rights of military personnel(or anyone who does business with the military – remember the Bible verses on lighted scopes) to practice Christianity.
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Also thess bigots from The Military Religious Freedom Foundation will not be happy until all Christian are silence in the Military.
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SeanMT Colorado Springs and the Air Force Aced. Have been dealing with MRFF for over 4 years. They have tried to silence Christian Chaplain from mention the Name Jesus out side of the Chapel.
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Pastor Roy – I hadn’t thought of the Red Cross – That should start a real fight – that sign has been used for a long time:
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Victoria what about all the medical vech. across the nation?
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If Christian sysmbols are wrong and should not be on Government Property. Then all the Hostipal that are city, state or government owned need to remove Christian sysmbols.
All chapels on Military Based need to remove all Christian sysmbols, cross and Bibles from their building.
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Pastor Roy –
I wonder if they will disallow an individual in the military, from bringing a Bible with them? – or maybe they will demand they read it only in a closet, so on one sees it, or perhaps it might have a Cross on the front, would the soldier need to cover it? -
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Victoria, they can tell the solider while on duty, you can not have a Bible present or a cross. Just like they tell solider, when in Uniform, they can not go to rallies. They can tell the Chaplains, to remove all symbols of the Christian Faith from the chapels. Which includes Bibles and Hymn books. Or restrict the Chaplain on what they can and can not say during services and out side of the services. I do believe, we will see this happen when Obama removes the don’t ask don’t tell polices.
The Military Religious Freedom Foundation is in favor of such polices.
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roy,
Surely you’re not teaching followers of the Lamb to join the military, are you?
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MTS, I believe that some “followers of the Lamb” are meant to defend the rest who are helpless, including children. Are you a pacifist?
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mytoosense 04.30.10 AT 4:02 PM
roy,
Surely you’re not teaching followers of the Lamb to join the military, are you?
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I support all Christain who desire to service in the Military. Since I worked hand and hand in the Military with the Chaplains.
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Louise,
Are you in the race to win a full reward from the King of Kings?
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roy,
But do you teach young believers, from the NT, that Jesus Christ may call them into the military?
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mytoosense -
Is this your day to give out nonsense answers? – now on two threads – this one and the other one about those who have been sexually abused?
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I serviced 8 years in the Army.
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Roy – this person is just playing games -
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roy,
What was your line of reasoning from the NT to join the military?
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I’ll check back…later.
Good topic.
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mytoosense 04.30.10 AT 4:12 PM
roy,
But do you teach young believers, from the NT, that Jesus Christ may call them into the military?
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No where in God’s Word does it say people should not servie in the Military. All encounter of Jesus with Soliders, He never told them not to service. No where in the Book of Acts did the early church tell the soliders not to service.
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mytoosense 04.30.10 AT 4:15 PM
roy,
What was your line of reasoning from the NT to join the military?
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I became a christian when I was in the Military. An Chaplain are called to service God in the Military.
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Victoria 04.30.10 AT 4:13 PM
Roy – this person is just playing games -
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agree
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mytoosense 04.30.10 AT 4:12 PM
roy,
But do you teach young believers, from the NT, that Jesus Christ may call them into the military?
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I believe God’s Word shows He calls people into the Ministry. Not into Jobs. He uses us in the job that open up for us to take.
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mytoosense – I have answer your questions. Here is my question to you. Why all the question to me?
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Well, that cross just OBVIOUSLY establishes Christianity as the official State Religion of the USA, and it allows the government to tax everybody to pay clergymen, and it give religious leaders unelected seats in Congress, so yeah, it’s totally gotta go.
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“it allows the government to tax everybody to pay clergymen”–
What? Where do I sign up for my chcek.
“it give religious leaders unelected seats in Congress.” What Nation do you live in?
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John M., you believe that the Christian Chaplain shoud be bard from saying the Name of Jesus on Military Bases? Since they are being paid by the Governement.
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John M., I follow you. Actually, though, we do pay for chaplains in the military, plus the ones in the House and Senate. I think the plaintiffs lost those lawsuits.
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John M,
We currently tax people to pay for smut art, abortions, commissions to study whether girls are different from boys, for Planned Parenthood, for funds to pay off the ACLU, for politicians to go on dates using Air Force One and tying up NYC, for bridges to nowhere, for oversea tirps for politicians, for incredible waste, for gov’t pay raises that far outpace the rise of inflation (even as private sector people lose wages), for frivolous law suits, for psychics to slove crimes, for self-esteme commissions, for you-name-it (I have only named a tiny smattering of what tax-payers pay for). I think the best value we get for tax money is the tiny tiny tiny fraction of a fraction of a percentage point that pay go to Christian chaplains.
We were founded as a Christian nation (with a largely secular government that respects religious freedom), and there has never before been a time when so much resentment and ill-advised opposition was spewed out toward the very fountain of our deepest principles that have made us great up to this era–namely that God is the source of our rights and liberties (not the Constitution, politicans or documents).
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John M, I think you may have been appropriately sarcastic, and my comment is just my own, in case someone thought your points were indeed arguments for ban the cross and chaplains.
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appropriately sarcastic– it is hard to tell if that is what he means or not.
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Joel, point well taken
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Liberals need grow up. Everyone of them that come here and spout their cry baby attitudes need a really bad spanking. If they hate it so bad here in America, then let them go live in Saudi Arabia. Maybe they will find themselves in Mecca on a Tuesday in chop chop square.
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“The Military Religious Freedom Foundation said the sign is a reference to the Crusades and fears that it may encourage U.S. enemies to see the war on terror as a Christian war on Islam.”
The number one priority for any army is to try and make their enemies like them.
If you want Islamic terrorists to like you, simply hate America, Christians and Jews.
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So would changing to something like the The caduceus ? usually associated with medicine be better?
If so since this staff is also called the wand of Hermes wouldn’t that be establishing the worship of Hermes and as the state religion?
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The Military Religious Freedom Foundation said the sign is a reference to the Crusades and fears that it may encourage U.S. enemies to see the war on terror as a Christian war on Islam.
There is no more war on terror. President Obama said so. Therefore the MRFF’s entire premise is false, and its argument collapses.
Anyway, there never was a war on terror: terror is a technique, not an entity. Saying we’re in a war on terror is like saying we’re in a war on killing. The war is between the civilized world and radical jihadist Islam, which wants to destroy civilization. Although most Muslims may not be radical, the small fraction that are make up a huge number of people in absolute terms. It doesn’t take many of them to wreak a lot of havoc and destruction, especially if they get WMD with the means to deliver. As a Newsmax cover story recently said, it’s not a matter of if, but when. The idea that it would be helpful not to have these people think a logo on a military hospital in Colorado has something to do with the Crusades is about the silliest thing I’ve ever heard.
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If a complaint has been lodged, then we must have a new gov’t agency and a 24-person-Commission to study this. Maybe the President should even give a speech!
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Hey, maybe we should go ahead and poll radical Muslims and ask them what parts of America are offensive, and agree ahead of time to change them: city names, emblems, slogans, holidays, citizen habits, places of worship, people’s names, etc. But only on the condition that they be more tolerant of other points of view, and nicer to people who disagree or who wear the wrong clothing, than we have been. Oh, wait a minute.
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When I read articles and disputes such as the above, I’m often reminded that this is what happens when people fight passionately over the same turf.
The left has accused and cited cases of evangelicals being overzealous over the Bush years in “Christianizing” the military. Once can see the above and other examples as push back from the secular left. Of course, evangelicals will claim the other side started etc etc etc. Now the simple solution would be for both sides to be less pushy and more tolerant but I don’t see that happening too quickly.
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“Christianizing” the military under Pres. Bush? That one got by me.
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It is impossible to “Christianize” anyone against their will. Christianity is 100%, by definition, something that is willing, or it’s not Christian in any real sense.
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Perhaps “Mikey”(1) figures that if the Christians get too dominant, the Jewish folks won’t end up their best buddies. Likewise, if the Koranicists increase dominance and push symbols and emblems, they would also, not be welcome at the religious tolerance buffet table.
Thus, Mike’s effort against the symbols, with the longer range emphasis on thwarting the Islamic “rights” insistance.
By stopping it all, one eliminates a particular belief from ever gaining a dominant position.
In addition, I would assume an atheist would argue along the same lines.
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(1) From their site…
“Mikey was named one of the 50 most influential Jews in America by the Forward, one of the nation’s preeminent Jewish publications. He also has received a nomination for the JFK’s Profile in Courage Award and received the Buzzflash Wings of Justice Award. In addition Mikey was honored by a distinguished civil rights organization Jews for Racial and Economic Justice with the Rabbi Marshall T. Meyer Risk-Taker Award, for those who have taken extraordinary risks in the pursuit of justice.
Reviled by the fundamentalist Christian right, Mikey has been given many names by his evangelical enemies including Satan, Satan’s lawyer, the Antichrist, That Godless, Secular Leftist, The Antagonizer of All Christians, The Most Dangerous Man in America and, most recently and perhaps most colorfully, The Field General of the Godless Armies of Satan.”
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This is a radical bunch. Y’all should file a counter-complaint with the Army and demand that all four ends of the cross be sharpened to a point.
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mytoosense here in COlorado Springs he is called the bigot.
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Can someone please explain to me why the West always needs to apologize to Muslims for the Crusades? Didn’t they start it? Shouldn’t they be apologizing for trying to ransack Europe?
What military leader in history was ever worried about offending his enemies? Why are Muslims so sensitive? Why do we let them push us around? The whole world is going feminine.
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Yeah.
Or maybe, Muslims could step forward..
“We’re sorry Mohammad was not a sensitive listener when he heard the Gospel for the first time. He should have been a VERY CAREFUL reader of the Biblical text.”..
“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.” (1Jo 5:20)
Now let’s see..
..what if Mohammad would have received Christ?
:-O
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This is absolutely rediculos. Next they are going to want to change the sign on ambulances becasues they have a croos on them. Just because an insignia has a cross on it it does not mean they are going to force chrisianity on the patients. Political correctness is getting out of control in this country.
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