Failing our nation’s children
Waiting for Superman is the new film by documentary filmmaker Davis Guggenheim, director of An Inconvenient Truth, and it should be mandatory viewing for every member of Congress.
As a synopsis on the Fandango movie site says this film “explores the tragic ways in which the American public education system is failing our nation’s children. . . .”
Not only do we see children and their parents on the edge of their seats during a lottery that will determine who gets the educational equivalent of a “get out of jail free” card, we also watch the crestfallen faces of those who don’t draw the magic numbers for decent schools, a better education, and, thus, a hope for the future. Is this how a poor child’s destiny should be decided, by lottery?
During a recent appearance on NBC’s Today show, a woman in the audience asked President Obama why he selected a tony private school for his daughters—Sidwell Friends, where tuition is $31,069 a year—over D.C. public schools. He said Sasha and Malia could not receive the same level of education from D.C. public schools that they get at Sidwell Friends.
The president said because of his position “we could probably maneuver” to get them into one of the better public schools, but he said the “broader problem” is that parents without “a bunch of connections” don’t have such options.
Nice try, but if he wanted to place his daughters in a public school, no connections would be needed. Jimmy Carter sent his daughter Amy to a public school when he was president. The issue for the Obamas and everyone else with school-age kids is which school provides them the best education?
The poor do not have a choice, other than a lottery. This is immoral.
Members of Congress—mostly Democrats—are channeling the late Alabama Gov. George Wallace, who in 1963 stood in the schoolhouse door at the University of Alabama to prevent blacks from entering. Today, certain members of Congress are metaphorically standing in schoolhouse doors, preventing the poor from leaving.
Asked for a review of the Superman film, the president said it is “heartbreaking” and that the educational future of children “shouldn’t depend on the bounce of a ball.” And yet it does and the reason is that too many politicians are in the pocket of the teachers unions, which pour gobs of money into their reelection coffers. Some members of Congress act as if their futures are more important than the future of a child.
The president’s professed concern for failing schools is not matched by his actions. According to the Washington Examiner, he and his allies in the U.S. Senate “opted to kill D.C.’s federally funded school voucher program rather than risk sinking the $410 billion omnibus spending bill that will fund the government for the remainder of the fiscal year.”
In his book Dreams From My Father, Mr. Obama wrote that when he was a community organizer in Chicago, “The biggest source of resistance (to school reform) was rarely talked about . . . namely, the uncomfortable fact that every one of our churches was filled with teachers, principals, and district superintendents. Few of these educators sent their own children to public schools; they knew too much for that. But they would defend the status quo with the same skill and vigor as their white counterparts of two decades before.”
Government schools are a monopoly that disproportionately hurt the poor, the very group Democrats claim to defend. That the left does not demand equal opportunity for poor children and their parents is more than outrageous. It is hypocrisy.
I would like to sit with Sens. Harry Reid and Dick Durbin and Speaker Nancy Pelosi as they watch Waiting for Superman and after witnessing what I’m sure would be tears, ask them, “How can you do this to children? How could you let their brains die from intellectual malnutrition and doom them to a life of misery all because you want to please a union?”
Of all the things that disgust voters about Washington politicians, refusing to let poor children escape from failing government schools may be the most disgusting of all.
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back to top89 Comments to “Failing our nation’s children”
Many of you were commenting last week about the money given to Newark. The real truth is we don’t get enough bang for our tax buck with the current crop of teachers — or should I say with the union. There has to be a way to get rid of teachers who can’t teach.
But even moreso, there has to be a way of getting beyond all the politically correct nonsense. It’s really very simple. Little kids need to learn the basics. They like to learn. If that means memorizing the tables, so be it, instead of all the “special” programs and the feeling sorry for them because they are poor. Poor has nothing to do with doing the actual schoolwork.
And when it comes to BHO, he ain’t no Jimmy Carter. He’s hoity toity.
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The “government monopoly” argument doesn’t work in face of the fact that nearly all the best high schools are public. This is true in every community across the country. Public teachers can deliver. The problem is, they rarely obviate the massive effects of poverty.
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The main reason for sending your child to a school that charges tuition is to keep company with the class of people who ca pay tuition.
It’s the main reason you fly first class. The big seat and service are nice, but so is the trash removal. I’m not talking about, “May I take that for you?”
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The high density urban areas seem to have the worst public schools. But they are also nearly all unionized with tenured “unfirable” teachers.
There are lots of shady characters who’ve started private or charter schools and essentially bilked the state or other tuition payers. No one ever addresses the reality of such folks.
Nuns and Catholic brothers have a good history of private education. Protestants? Not so much. Teaching should be pushed more as a true mission field.
I think a lot of the behavior/discipline problems would resolve mighty quick if the schools could ban the bad apples. Let them go instead to the much-maligned school of hard knocks.
Another reform would be to do away with the bachelor’s degree in Education. Make the teachers learn/master an actual subject.
What a radical concept!! We cant keep good math or science teachers. Whyso? Better pay in businesses for one thing.
President OBama is right. Nearly all the churches I’ve attended have had a big %age of educators: coaches, principals etc
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I have extensive experience with GS Federal employees. Try firing one of THEM!! HR and Legal have to hold your hand the entire way.
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I’m confused. Obama is saying that schools are bad because Christians are resisting reform?!?! Christians are now being blamed for the poor state of government schools!? What am I missing?
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My four children attended, between them, thirteen public schools and two private schools in four states in five parts of the country (New England, central California, western Washington, Hawaii and northern California).
The went to school with poor children, children of enlisted nuclear power sailors, children of hot-running Naval graduate students, mixed engineers kids and rural kids, poor Hawaiian kids and elite Punahou kids (President Obama’s alma mater), forestry kids, pot grower kids, engineer kids (again), wine growing kids, Christian kids, illegal alien kids, and so forth.
I volunteered at all those schools and worked in the classroom with all those kids–not to mention all the cub scouts.
What I have observed that made the difference was the PARENTS and the attitude of the TEACHER. Kids are kids–scrappy ones, hyper-active ones, genius ones, sweet ones and so forth. A good teacher can deal with all the types of kids.
But parents who were involved in those kids lives, made a difference–forcing them to do their homework, behave, eat, go to bed, and then intervening when something went wrong–along with keeping their own lives out of the soap opera scene.
Teachers generally worked hard and wanted the best; they only tended to go bad when their personal lives or their out-of-the-class room lives got out of hand. You don’t go into teaching because you want to destroy the minds of young children.
I can’t decide if I want to see this movie or not. As the daughter and sister of teachers, the mother of kids who attended school, and a former public school student myself, this subject makes my heart hurt.
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So President Carter sent his kids to public school. I kind of think that Washington D.C. public schools might have changed a bit since then (and probably for the worse).
Interestingly enough, the Nixon girls and Chelsea Clinton also went to Sidwell Friends so I don’t think President Obama is unique in his choice of schools for his daughters. (And it’s obviously not a related to party.)
The Bush girls went to public school for a time in Texas, but we can only speculate as to whether President Bush would have sent them to public school in Washington D.C.
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I think if you put your kids in public school (and you’re the Prez) you had better give them fake identities and send them to school far beyond DC.
Security and secret service details ea and every school day? Imagine the parking lot
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I think a big part of the problem is discipline. This a big reason I send my son to t a private school. I want the teacher to have the authority to correct him if he starts going wrong. Public school teachers seem to be afraid to correct kids. There are too many parents who think their child can do no wrong and will cause trouble for the teacher. Plus you have kids who don’t want to learn and will prevent others from learning and a public school can’t kick them out. A private school can.
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I don’t blame Obama for wanting the best for his children. I thought Carter used his daughter as a PR stunt.
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You know he wouldn’t have. I love the Bushes but you KNOW they wouldn’t have. I get it. If I had to do it all over again and I had to do it now, I would find my kids a private Protestant or (less preferrably) Catholic school OR do a home school group. At the time my kids were attending high school (’95 to 2004) they would have fainted at the idea of anything but public school, but then they got out into the competitive real world and they now say they wished I had made a different choice.
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This is a complex issue but I agree w/ Michelle that a huge piece here is parents. I’m not against public school, but in many parents minds they have completely delegated education. They haved moved this responsibility to someone else and give it little or no attention unless there is a serious problem. Hey, life is busy for 2 working parents who are out to accomplish their goals. Sadly I believe in many cases this includes moral education.
It not only effects failing students, there are many average and good students who would do much better if parents encouraged them more, and required them to work harder. But they leave it all to teachers, who can’t push each indiviudal student to be their best, irregardless of their personal flaws or educational agendas.
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Kbells, I think there are private schools and there are private schools. Our kids learned memory verses and one of them found his musical gift there, but the education was subpar. By the time they went to public school again, there was a bit of catching up to do. Also, the discipline was pretty lax.
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Hopesprings, I made a point of checking out the school academically. According to another mom who is in real estate our students test at about a grade level ahead of public school. The little boy down the street who is a grade ahead looked at my son’s homework and said “Hey, we’re not doing that yet.”
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“The main reason for sending your child to a school that charges tuition is to keep company with the class of people who ca pay tuition.”
That is not so in Newark at St. Benedict’s.
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“But parents who were involved in those kids lives, made a difference–forcing them to do their homework, behave, eat, go to bed, and then intervening when something went wrong–along with keeping their own lives out of the soap opera scene.”
This really has nothing to do with poverty. I have no problem helping with food stamps, but the rest is up to the parents.
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“The “government monopoly” argument doesn’t work in face of the fact that nearly all the best high schools are public. This is true in every community across the country.”
Probably so, but not in the areas of poverty as you mention.
Why is the question though. What is the root of the reason/s that poverty areas, despite the finanicial government backing, cant get similiar results? It is obviously not a money issue. It is most likely a lack of parental/teacher discipline. When kids in the 7th grade cant read, it is not a money issue, it is a failure of the sytem.
So if you do not want to fix the system, then at least allow those who want to get out, a way out.
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Interesting thread – great comments. Sounds like more money is not going to help.
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Come on now, Thorn. Public schools should “get out of the way” for what? Harvest Christian Academy has an admissions office. It might not be a so-called “failing school,” despite its educational defects, but, to be fair, you have to include the fates of the students it rejects in measuring its contributions to the education of society. Public schools give everybody a chance. We wish it were a better chance, of course. We wish that teachers could turn poverty into prosperity, but they’ll need stronger magic than school uniforms, McGuffy Readers, prayer, and corporal punishment. Wealthy communities won’t subject their children to Dickensian educational methods. It’s heartless to impose them on the poor.
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Money helps a lot, WAGUS. Just ask the rich. Tutors, vacation trips, summer camp, hobbies, psychologists, lessons, musical instruments, parties, test prep, and trust funds are not without advantages.
I have a niece who recently went to Stanford. The school threw money at her to spend as she pleased. They called the money “research” but to be frank it looked an awful lot like travel, adventure, and self-promotion.
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Would more money help whatever organization you work for? Would it help you raise your kids?
Conservatives are so cynical about CERTAIN forms of spending that they try to pretend that money doesn’t matter.
Incidentally, there are very good reasons that teachers and civil servants are hard to fire. Think just a moment about what those might be.
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Incompetent unqualified folks who dont perform at the level of expected standards should be fired. Yes, even those who are in civil service with a union and civil service laws to “protect” them!!
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We have decided to home school for this reason. Between the public library and a few other purchased books, it costs next to nothing to give my four kids a great education. I choose to have them tested by the state just so I can answer cynics that don’t think one can do as good or better of a job at home as a school can do. They test above their peers. I don’t really care because I think the things a standardized test can test for are data retention, not actual thinking. I value thinking, not data retention, therefore these tests mean nothing to me as a measurement for myself of how well I am doing. When my kids can discuss an issue and draw on what we have been learning as part of thier discussion, that is all the test I need.
I wish more people realized how easy it is to teach their own children. You don’t need a bunch of training. We just read great books and discuss them. They do some math. We look at a map and talk about it. We read literature that takes place in historical settings and talk about history. We get books on scientific subjects that they are interested in at the library and read them together and talk about it. Poor families can do this if they can work out a way for an adult to be home with the child. The real cost comes in deciding to stay home and not work. This is a tough thing to do when you live in So. Calif. like us. My husband is self-employed and we have NO guaranteed income at all. We have no one else providing insurance to us. This is a leap of faith, but it has worked for us and I think more people should consider this option for their families. I am also able to keep them from negative peer influence and teach them from our family’s worldview. Since we are the only Christians in our entire extended families on either side, they have plenty of exposure to the world via cousins and aunts and uncles and grandparents and can view firsthand the negative impact that sinful living has on people’s lives without it being in a context that might tempt them to engage in it. We also involve them in ministry to orphans and the homeless so they are not in a bubble.
My husband is a former public school teacher, and can verify firsthand the warped worldview being taught and the moral decay. Incidentally, he taught in one of the more affluent schools in the area. Good test scores do not equal good morals or even a good education.
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Edit: “their” not “thier” at end of first paragraph. Of course I have a spelling error in my post about being a home schooler! Gotta keep humble!
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I’ve got to say that a HUGE problem IS the unions! Do you know how much money they are spending on political adds?!
That kind of money is what is left after lining their own pockets, contributing to Leftist only, and protecting tenured teachers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I too can speak with authority on this issue. My wife and I have run the gambit with education for our children. Private, home and public. Home was the best, followed by private, with public running a very distant last place!! I have asked my children about good and bad teachers in their school. These teachers are well known. They have watched good teachers go before bad teachers because of seniority. Time and again. And here’s the thing: ALL THE STUDENTS KNOW THIS. They know who the bad and good ones are. It’s a joke to them. This nation’s education system run by the teacher’s union is an international JOKE!!!!!!!!!!
Try firing a bad teacher. See how much money it costs.
Also, as regards parents responsibility. I don’t want to duck it, but there is a reason that we PAY teachers!!!! If I homeschool, then I take the time to do it right. If I send my kids to private education, than I want all the bang for my buck going straight to that class room, and I want results from that class room. Same goes for public education. Sadly, we pay high taxes for education and consistantly get lousey results. Don’t tell me that we need to pay more into the system!!!!! We need to be sure that the unions are BUSTED, get the money past the educational administration system with their deep greed filled wallets, and straight to the classroom. Then we need to, as Sawgunner says, be sure that the teachers are master of the subject that they are teaching. And if they are not good at it, FIRE THEM!
When I saw the trailer, and I saw the tears in the eyes of the children and parents watching that ball to see if their number would come up, I shouted out a profanity, and said “THIS SHOULD NOT BE HAPPENING IN AMERICA!! NO WAY!!”.
I have to applaud Oprah for spotlighting this issue. If she wants to see her ratings go up, she should join the cause whole heartedly.
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I’d say this article pretty much says it all for me:
http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/president-we-need-more-teachers-reality-yoohoo-im-right-over-here-hellooo/
The standard political mantra (not exclusive to the left but certainly most broadly endorsed by the left) is to throw more money at it.
That’s like pumping more water into a sinking ship. The saddest indictment is that not only is the government pumping more water, but they refuse under any circumstances to throw a few life preservers.
tsk, tsk, tsk. Shame on Washington.
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I will also say that I KNOW there are great, noble teachers in our public schools. They should be recognized.
Here’s what sickens me, though: when in a union, you see mediocre performance by a co-worker getting the same compensation. Then, as is natural, you begin to lose that fire in your own performance. I’m sorry, be most people are subject to that human flaw. This is why private enterprise works better. You have at least three good reasons to perfom: 1) personal integrity 2) higher compensation 3) job security. Works everytime.
It really is sad to see the unions become what they started out as hating: power hungry extortionists. I thank them for what they did for changing abhorant labor conditions. But they have now become the problem. I will readily admit that their is real danger to the worker if all unions were busted. Though I wonder why simple laws can’t be enforced to curb abuse.
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Oh, and Scroop, yeah, my wife wanted to run with the elitists. You are so hard to take serious sometimes.
We scraped for private tuition along with many others at the same school. But it was worth it. And as I looked around, many of those same “elites” were shopping at wal-mart and using coupons to make ends meet. Yep, we were elitist generic consumers!
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Again, the blame the parents crowd gets old. I liken that to paying a gardener to take care of my lawn just to have go out and sweep up his mess after trimming the edges.
Nope, if I have to do that, I fire him and get another to do it right. I still need to water and perform light upkeep in between services…
So, parents have a lot of responsibility, but they really need to quit being the scapegoat.
The number one factor that has changed with US Public education between now and the 50s or earlier: Unions.
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Brother Dan is right about the unions protecting the mediocre and the failing teachers.
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BrotherDan, when you hear teachers blaming parents, I don’t think they’re talking about parents like you! We applaud you for working for your children’s education! Instead, we’re really talking about the parents (and there are many in the public system) who take no interest in their child’s education. Parents who send their children to school because it’s required by law, but who aren’t encouraging learning.
I’m speaking from a high school perspective here. When the parents drop their children off at school, I expect the parents to have done their job of teaching manners, respect, diligence, etc. Instead, I have to spend a lot of my class time getting students to sit down, listen up, get to work, and stop bullying, hitting, or texting. My job is made much more difficult by the parents who abandon child training before the high school years. And I know they exist. I hear the stories from the students, and I see the parents’ attitude in emails and conferences.
That is why private schools do perform better. The parents sending their children there care about their children’s education. And students, in public school, whose parents care about education do perform better than students who don’t have the same support. Teachers cannot replace a parent’s influence in a child’s life. Our job is to teach children about academic subjects. Unfortunately, poor behavior prevents learning for that student and those around him. Teachers need parents’ help and support for education to be effective.
**Disclaimer: I am not a union teacher. I teach in a high unemployment county in the Midwest, surrounded by cornfields. I have a BA degree in French (the subject I teach) and speak the language fluently. I also have a BA in Education.
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And, I agree with Rom112 comment 31. The unions are all about protecting every teacher who pays the dues. Don’t want to join? No protection.
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Sylvie, from the bottom of my heart, I say “God bless you!”
Thank you for that post. And I agree 100%.
I guess I was reacting to what I was reading here. I really thought that we should focus a little more on the adverse affect (effect?) that most (most) unions have on public schools.
PS, I really would love to go back to school and become an English major, then teach. (I have plenty to learn, but I love grammar, literature, etc. I just hate spelling :0 )
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The irony of anybody who insists that public schools teach “Creation”, that the earth is 30K years old, that people rise from the grave (no not just Jesus), that there are angels and demons, that there were 1,000 year old men, and that once upon a time a god flooded the entire earth in order to deliberately kill almost every living thing, would complain about Democrats destroying the quality of education is utterly laughable.
Sadly, it is largely because people such as these regularly storm the battlements every time a teacher casts a doubting glance on such insane doctrines and try to get that teacher FIRED, that tenure and unions and civil service protections for teachers are needed.
Like it or not public school educators are lightning rods for every crackpot group and pressure group in our society; they are also subject to elections which result in vastly different administrators/bosses. One person’s excellent teacher is another’s bigot or heretic; every teacher and every administrator
needs some kind of protection from these political winds.
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21. 22. More money might help if it actually went to the schools.
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35. That’s why people need choices.
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re # 19/WAGUS – You are so right! This is a great conversation. However, I think more money WOULD help if it was not misspent and used frivolously. Children CANNOT learn if their basic needs are not being met. If a child has poor vision, rotting teeth, head lice, or is hungry, he/she will not be able to focus on things so obscure and irrelevant as mathmatics and grammar. Once those basic, fundamental needs are addressed, children will thrive in the right environment – one with structure and nurture as well as concrete expectations that are mirrored in their homelife. When the parents are only utilizing school as free daycare so that they (the parents) can work or sleep or shop or whatever, the child will always suffer.
I was raised in the UAW in the 70s and 80s; there is no way we would have survived that time without my dad’s local. They distributed food boxes when we were in need. They offered discounts and coupons to all sorts of programs and activities. We would have been out on the street during long lay-offs if not for the Union helping us with costs of everyday living. That was then.
Unions today are obsolete. They are the problem, not even close to the solution anymore. And when the unions infiltrated the schools and got the teachers organized, the individual instructor’s motivation to deliver a quality education died.
Today, we are a homeschool family. We do without a LOT in order for me to stay home while my husband works, but we know this investment is worth it. We do not have cable and haven’t had a car payment since before we got married eight years ago. Actually, we’re down to one vehicle now and my husband rides his bike to work all year (It’s way cheaper than the bus!). We have never owned a home. We shop at second-hand stores and rely heavily on hand-me-downs and freebies.
If one small family can see that education is a priority and invest in it WISELY, why can’t the nation do the same? And don’t tell me that “No Child Allowed to Excel” is the answer, because it is not.
PS: We are living an exceptionally rewarding life. I didn’t mean to paint a picture of abject poverty, because that would not be a true illustration of us – we are just living much more simply than most families, and loving every minute. Maybe we should all get back to the basics and skip the bells and whistles for a while.
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I don’t take you seriously, either, Bro Dan
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Scroop Moth
The main reason for sending your child to a school that charges tuition is to keep company with the class of people who ca pay tuition.
Very true. Its also why we go to university, live in a certain neighborhood, join clubs, sign our children to “certain” dance/sport schools, etc.
Sawgunner
There are lots of shady characters who’ve started private or charter schools and essentially bilked the state or other tuition payers. No one ever addresses the reality of such folks
Private post secondary vocational schools are notorious around here for bilking students with gov’t loans.
I think a lot of the behavior/discipline problems would resolve mighty quick if the schools could ban the bad apples. Let them go instead to the much-maligned school of hard knocks.
You would get the sympathy of many teachers with a comment like this. Theoretically, we would like to think that every student deserves an education but there’s nothing wrong with certain students being channeled to a completely different path/method. At a certain age, weeding these “bad apples” is needed if only to provide an example and due to susceptibility of other students. By middle school, most students are tired of the same acting out by the same kids.
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Michelle
Involved parents are necessary for a successful students. (Some parents are over involved — your grade 5 son doesn’t need you to come in the school to pack his backpack)Obtaining a successful education requires a complete package which begins before a child steps into a public elementary school.
kbells
Discipline does exist in public schools (at least in mine). However, we do have to educate anyone who comes through our doors. Perhaps alternative settings for misbehaving children should be expanded but most ill-behaved boys in primary/junior outgrow it by the time they reach middle school.
Scroop Moth
Money helps a lot, WAGUS. Just ask the rich. Tutors, vacation trips, summer camp, hobbies, psychologists, lessons, musical instruments, parties, test prep, and trust funds are not without advantages.
On the money yet again
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Who here has watched the whole Documentary?
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I’m just curious as to what solutions are offered in the documentary. I would consider their suggestions before mine or others. Whatever they are.
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BD #26
You have singled out unions as the cause of America’s lower education results yet all European and Canadian teachers are unionized — unions that are much further to the left than the US. The existence of a union and a system of tenure is universal throughout all OECD countries yet results differ from country to country. Thus, I would argue unions don’t seem to have an effect on the quality of education presented. An interesting book called the Spirit Level by two British sociologists claims that after a certain point in economic development, the greater the extent of inequality in a society the greater the social problems. The US, the UK and Portugal have the highest levels of inequality and not surprisingly their education system performs poorly in comparison to northern Europe (where leftist teacher unions are omnipresent)
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Someone please explain this to me:
“The poor do not have a choice, other than a lottery. This is immoral.”
On just about any other issue you can think of, conservatives oppose spending taxpayer money to aid the poor, or at best, seek to limit it. Food stamps? Grudgingly. Subsidize day care so poor parents can take time to work? Forget it. Health care? Ha!
But on this issue, conservatives line up with their hands out demanding “vouchers” of public money so they can send their children to private schools.
What makes this so different?
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BD
Here’s what sickens me, though: when in a union, you see mediocre performance by a co-worker getting the same compensation. Then, as is natural, you begin to lose that fire in your own performance.
Of course its annoying. Its annoying when a colleague whines enough to get an easier schedule than you. There’s all kinds of things to whine about. Administrators who make sure children of friends get employed before people who put in years as excellent occasional teachers. this occurs whether its a union shop or not. In fact, favoritism and nepotism is probably more prevalent in non-union shop.
However, if you are an educator or any other professional this shouldn’t dampen the fire you have for the profession. You join this profession for a specific reason and the above doesn’t change that. I will admit that children neglected by their parents is probably the deal breaker as it weighs on you year after year.
This is why private enterprise works better. You have at least three good reasons to perfom: 1) personal integrity 2) higher compensation 3) job security. Works everytime.
except thats not how non-union shops work — compensation reflects the market not your performance similarly job security works on the same principle.
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Hey, it was the Dems who lately wanted to steal food stamp money.
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40. That’s the most sense you’ve made all week.
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My sixth grade teacher abused class after class for years. Everybody knew it. But he paid “hush money” (union dues) and could not be fired. I HATE THE UNIONS who didn’t care about us then and nothing has changed. I’ve got family in the schools and their attiude disgusts me. If the system isn’t working, then scrap the system. Remember, systems are to serve people, not people to serve the system.
I now homeschool my children. Interestingly, every achievement gap that exists in the public schools is nearly nonexistent among homeschoolers. Sure money helps, but it’s not the deciding factor.
My husband makes less than the median income in our area, we have more than twice the median family size, and I don’t work outside the home. We are frugal and trust God. I taught in the public schools in MI and I will not send my children to government indoctrination school. Most adults are merely tall, old children; so few adults are mature–and you can’t expect children to teach children! It’s a dog-eat-dog world. We see it among our neighborhood kids, “I’ll get you first before you get me.” I want better for my children. And not just in their academics.
It is terrible that we as a nation are more interested in promoting a system than we are about caring for the children who will care for us. Why not have school choice, except to protect the status quo and to H with the kids whose parents can’t/won’t provide for their needs. Homeschoolers have proved again and again that licensing and regulations and the thousands of dollars spent on public education are not the keys to producing mature, educated, well-rounded, intelligent, capable citizens and husbands and wives and mothers and fathers.
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Though I wonder why simple laws can’t be enforced to curb abuse.
because people don’t want to pay the taxes to hire the necessary enforcement and inspectors. After all that’s an expansion of gov’t
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BrotherDan, we do pay teachers to teach. But parents are there to instill discipline in their kids at home, make them do homework, etc., etc. I knew better than to mess up in school because my parents made it clear what their expectations were. And while they couldn’t always help with homework because they didn’t attend schools here, they made sure we got what we needed to learn.
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#49
Unions have a legal obligation to assist all members. If they didn’t they could be sued for breach of contract.
If a teacher abused his students, and it was documented, the police would or should be involved.
In Ontario, teachers are fired for abuse and there’s really not much the union can do. The system here does have its problems but it does work. I work in an area dominated by public housing projects and is 50% immigrant — many of these students go on to university/college and become good law abiding citizens.
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NJL
Your parents like mine and my students’ parents were/are immigrants and they all have similar attitudes. They appreciate the opportunity the school is giving their children and they support us. It helps that my Asian and Middle Eastern students have cousins in the “old” country who tell them stories about their schools. They gladly listen to me.
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Obama wants all the children to go to college.
How about giving them a good public education first.
If every school were created equal, then why would children in DC wish to go to one that will give them a better education.
Too many schools have become a holding place, a babysitting service for the nation’s children.
Teachers are gov’t employees and their salaries are going higher and higher, but it doesn’t seem to be helping educate the nation’s children.
HOW HIGH should a teacher’s salary go before they become better teachers?
It takes more than a good teacher to succeed, but there have been some who have succeeded in poor schools.
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Has OBAMA blamed Bush yet for the bad public schools in Chicago and DC?
If DC must have a Dept. of Education, then they should use the dept. to audit school administrators. WAY TOO MUCH money at the top. We have administration buildings in each school district that are large and very well funded. We vote money for education every year. Where is the money going?
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NJL-51
Agreed. I actually never argued other wise about discipline. I just don’t want to lose the focus of what I believe the documentary centers on, and that is the ill effects of the union protected system.
HRW, you make some valid points that I will have to look into. I too appreciate you latest posts in this. They seem reasoned. I do suspect that the unions of America just might be a different beast altogether than those that you have listed. The unions here are all about protecting EVERY TEACHER AGAISNT EVERYTHING, FACTS BE DAMNED. At least, that’s my perception.
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MN2M
Obama wants all the children to go to college.
How about giving them a good public education first.
I somehow doubt it. Most people realize that not everyone can or even should go to college. You can still deliver a good public education without sending someone to college.
If every school were created equal, then why would children in DC wish to go to one that will give them a better education.
Because for a variety of reasons they aren’t
Too many schools have become a holding place, a babysitting service for the nation’s children.
Highly dependent on the attitude of the parents which is one of the reason not all schools are equal.
Teachers are gov’t employees and their salaries are going higher and higher, but it doesn’t seem to be helping educate the nation’s children. HOW HIGH should a teacher’s salary go before they become better teachers?
In comparison to most American teachers I’m extremely well paid and I don’t see a need to increase my wages other than to keep pace with inflation. I would like some improved benefits and working conditions — more prep time would be nice. I would also see some measures to eliminate some of the arbitrariness that occurs in scheduling,etc. I would also like the board to spend more on professional training. Those measures are continuously on the bargaining list the union takes to the school board.
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I do suspect that the unions of America just might be a different beast altogether than those that you have listed. The unions here are all about protecting EVERY TEACHER AGAISNT EVERYTHING, FACTS BE DAMNED. At least, that’s my perception.
Unions have the legal obligation to defend and support their members. It maybe the nature of the American legal system that may make the US unions more diligent but that’s a different discussion.
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In an ideal world all the parents teach manners, courtesy, values, etc. They help with homework, cook balanced meals and all sit down together every night for dinner. However, this isn’t an ideal world. Often teachers are kept pretty busy beyond the subject they are supposed to be teaching.
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“The “government monopoly” argument doesn’t work in face of the fact that nearly all the best high schools are public. This is true in every community across the country.”
Best by whose standard?
From the 1983 A Nation At Risk report “If an unfriendly foreign power had attempted to impose on America the mediocre educational performance that exists today, we might well have viewed it as an act of war. As it stands, we have allowed this to happen to ourselves. We have even squandered the gains in student achievement made in the wake of the Sputnik challenge. Moreover, we have dismantled essential support systems which helped make those gains possible. We have, in effect, been committing an act of unthinking, unilateral educational disarmament.”
The SAT has since been dumbed down (educrats call this recentering) twice I believe. Our students are still ending up near the bottom of test skills when compared to the rest of the world, or has that improved since I last monitored the outcome of international testing a few years ago? The majority of students in graduate schools of math, science and engineering are foreigners.
The problem with the poor is not money, it’s a spiritual issue. There is a problem with our total government education system.
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I’m curious — for those of you who homeschool, are you involved in homeschooling co-ops? Do you think, or have any experience, that homeschool co-ops would have any success as a ministry to inner city families to support them in providing homeschooling as an option to public or private schooling?
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CHERIEVON,
I, for one, believe you are on the right track. We are commanded by Christ to go out and help the poor, needy, orphans, etc. That is an important function of Christians service if gifted towards those ends to love our neighbors. It’s in the Word for us to do; so the answer is a resounding Yes.
Suggest you read Theodore Dalrymple’s Life at the Bottom and the Worldview that created the underclass. You’ll discover why government will never solve the problem but only exaserbate it. Only a personal touch from a saint where the light of Christ shines through will start to fix the cultural problems we have.
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#61 Cherievon- I was just thinking about this idea of helping the poor and inner-city child by supporting their parent(s) to know how to home school. I’m going to keep thinking about that. So far, I think it is a great idea IF there is a parent that is interested in teaching their child.
#26 BrotherDan – I totally agree with you about the Unions being the biggest problem. Before I had children (10 yrs. ago) I worked as the Office Manager at a public elementary school. The majority of the teachers were wonderful, hard working, caring people that took their job seriously. Unfortunately, there were two teachers that were terrible. They did a lousy job, and one had a drinking problem (we’re talking they found liquor bottles in her class trash can multiple times and she wouldn’t show up to work because she was passed out drunk several times). The other one had an addiction to prescription drugs and acted bizarre and unreliable. You would not believe the years and years of effort put into helping these two women (all while class after class suffered from poor teaching and constant substitute teachers). The labor unions make it so hard to fire anyone. These two women had files with incidents recorded several inches thick. At the time I left with my first daughter, they still had been unable to fire them. If I had a child in one of these women’s classes, I would have been furious.
On the other hand, I also agree with the Sylvie #32. It was so frustrating to interact with parents that acted like the entire raising of their child should be done by the school. I could have clobbered several parents who had their child signed up to receive free government paid lunch, but who were walking around talking on their cell phone. Pretty sure one can afford 20 PB&J sandwiches per month if one can afford to pay for a cell phone every month. I also felt frustrated for the teachers who had parents not helping their kids with homework, not teaching manners or respect. The problem is complex. In my mind though, the parents are ultimately responsible for their children and I just think the whole concept of mass public school is only going to get you a very bare minimum of education – probably more for the motivated student, or the student whose parents supplement and help out.
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Conan:
On just about any other issue you can think of, conservatives oppose spending taxpayer money to aid the poor, or at best, seek to limit it. Food stamps? Grudgingly. Subsidize day care so poor parents can take time to work? Forget it. Health care? Ha!
But on this issue, conservatives line up with their hands out demanding “vouchers” of public money so they can send their children to private schools.
What makes this so different?
It depends on the conservative. For the evangelical it’s two reasons, money and curriculum. A great many charter schools are religiously based, thus providing a chance to preach and, more importantly to get on the government gravy train.
For the fiscal conservative, it’s a misplaced faith in the ability of the “free market” to replace the entire installed edifice of public education and somehow come up with decent, albeit limited results. Reading writing and ‘rithmetic only, no sports, no band, no clubs, no gyms, no thought about the rest of the child. And yes there are also some big time charter operators out there taking down government money.
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“Of all the things that disgust voters about Washington politicians, refusing to let poor children escape from failing government schools may be the most disgusting of all.”
Here’s the thing. They’re not trapped there. If a parent wants to home school they have that option. If a parent wants to send their kid to a private school they have that option. Oh wait. No they don’t, because they’re poor. If not for the entitlement (sound the alarm!) of public schools, they would receive no education whatsoever if it wasn’t provided charitably.
Vouchers “sort of” fixes this situation, but they’re not perfect either. They’d probably create a “better” outcome for these students than what they have today, but it would undoubtedly still be inferior to the education wealthy and high-ability students receive.
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Parents do need to take ultimate responsibility but society also needs to support that and enable parents to step up, rather than work against it. The manager of the Detroit public schools, in an effort to make sure everyone was there on “count day” urged parents (a direct quote) “bring your children to us…turn your children over to us…we will educate them for you.” (no commentary needed…that says it all.)
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And there are other conservatives who are more willing to spend money on education for the poor rather than other “give-away” programs, in the spirit of “teach a person how to fish” rather than “give him a fish”
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Re cell phones (63): today many people have them instead of landlines; my own sister has lived without a phone or a car for several years of her life, so I do know it is possible in certain circumstances, but I personally don’t consider either a telephone or a car a true “luxury.” (Especially for a parent; my sister was single and could bike to work or to a mall with a pay phone.) Cable TV as luxury, yes.
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Having lived among the “have-nots” for a few years, a very poorly educated Chicago black community, I think I may have a word or two on parents being the issue. First off, the kids I ministered to simply had no books at home, many of them were caring for younger brothers and sisters, and many had no adults at home (or the adults who were home were bad influences). These kids didn’t get enough sleep, consistent meals, the security of a safe neighborhood, or many other things we take for granted. Many times no one was available to help with homework (e.g., helping them go over the times table) or to make sure they did it at all. Nor would many parents have even been able to; having been raised in the same situation themselves, some were barely literate and not very skilled with math. Too many generations of this, combined with student and parent apathy, does make it nearly impossible for even the most dedicated teachers.
And these parents couldn’t even begin to have the skills to homeschool, besides the fact that single moms basically have the choice of working to support their kids (being gone during the day) or being on welfare. Without solving deeper family issues (e.g., unmarried parents and fathers with little involvement), schooling issues will always remain secondary and unresolved.
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It seems like I remember a story a while back about a church in a poor community who set up a tutoring program. The kids improved so much they were at first suspected of cheating on the test.
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“but it would undoubtedly still be inferior to the education wealthy and high-ability students receive.”
I suspect my son’s education is inferior to the education of the wealthy.
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In 69 I meant to say “no adults at home during the afternoon,” in other words that the neighborhood was not well populated with responsible adults during the hours when children usually do homework. And the fact that the ice cream truck actually once came through my neighborhood at 11:00 at night should be an indication of how well neighborhood children were put to bed at a set bedtime.
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BTW, seriously I have no problem with the idea that the wealthy get better education . . . or health care, food, housing, cars, clothing, etc. It’s really rather ridiculous to say that one person can earn more as long as that person’s family doesn’t have any privileges at all from that money. Especially in a society taht argues that the wealthy should not only pay more in taxes, but should pay a bigger percentage of their income in taxes, it’s absurd to say their wealth shouldn’t ever get them anything better than the poor they finance have.
Meanwhile, we should be teaching the poor how to set goals and reach for them, not to accept poverty as something inevitable. In a free-market system (which we are, admittedly, quickly losing), poverty isn’t inevitable for any family. My own family has several examples of someone going from povery to wealth in a single generation.
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Our society is not doing an adequate job of educating our children. Doing more of the same won’t help. We must do things differently.
Trouble makers need to be taken out of classrooms.
We should stop telling all our children that they can and should go to college. Not all of them should go to college.
We no longer have any education aimed at the non-college bound.
Our educational establishment is not going to educate our children until many changes happen. It is going down the wrong road.
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“Only a personal touch from a saint where the light of Christ shines through will start to fix the cultural problems we have.”
Beautifully said, RWHawk.
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Our son, who has learning challenges due to a genetic abnormality, is enrolled in a wonderful charter school here in Michigan. As a former teacher, and someone who values the importance of education, I am so thankful to have the choice of placing him in a caring, challenging environment. Because of his special needs our local Christian schools would not have the resources to teach him appropriately. Thanks to the National Heritage Academy he is getting a great education, all the services he needs to thrive, and benefiting from amazing teachers. Parents regularly volunteer at the school and are extremely involved in their children’s education. I am so thankful to have the choice of where to send my son! My heart breaks for involved, caring parents who do not have the same choices and opportunities.
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“Public schools should “get out of the way” for what? ”
Are you quoting me? I never said such. I said if you dont want fix the system, then allow those who want out, a way out. To expound, my point is that they have the opporutnity to go to public or private where the schools are successful.
“Public schools give everybody a chance. We wish it were a better chance, of course. We wish that teachers could turn poverty into prosperity, but they’ll need stronger magic than school uniforms, McGuffy Readers, prayer, and corporal punishment”
You give no child a chance, when you refuse to fix the problems. It isnt magic that is needed, it isnt magic that hte other school sneeded. I’m not advocating uniforms or corporal punishment. Those do not address the root of the issue.
Besides, if it will only take magic, why waste the money? You’ve only argued further that money wont help, and frankly you sound like you think its hopeless.
So we might as well scrap these schools and start over. Review things like is homework helping? Is it any good, when 90% of the parents either do it for the kid or dont care at all? Maybe there are other ways to reinforce what they learn day to day. Maybe there are beter ways to encourage parent involvement, maybe theyll take notice when their child has failed 3 grades in a row, rather than being passed on to the 7th grade without knowing how to read.
The point is, what we are doing now, in these schools, doesnt work and its ruining any “choice or opporutnity” these kids may have had. They are stuckin the same rut their so called parents are, and will raise their kids no differently.
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“but it would undoubtedly still be inferior to the education wealthy and high-ability students receive.”
I would aruge that there are alot of dumb wealthy kids…aren’t the Hilton’s and Lohan’s enough?
You can have the opp to go to the best school in the US, but if you have no desire to learn, and no reinforcement of that desire by your parents/teachers then no amount of money will give you any sort of an excellent education.
You can go to the poorest performing schools, and if you have said desire to actually learn, you’ll come out just as smart as most wealthy kids.
The problem is not money, the problem is overcoming the lack of desire for an education that these kids are weighed down with from lack of family and cultural discipline.
So how should the public education system respond to that? You obviously cant run these schools the same way as you would other community schools where they are not overwhelmed by this problem.
Heck instead of spending 14k per child, spend 10k, give a teacher a raise, have the kids stay an extra hour or two, and use the rest of it to hire several more teachers or tutors. But it wont change no matter what you do, if you cant find a way to overcome the lack of desire to even learn.
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Bob,
Our society is not doing an adequate job of educating our children. Doing more of the same won’t help. We must do things differently.
True. The northern Europeans do produce better test results and generally a better educated public. They stream children early (about grade 7), have excellent publicly run trade schools, less discipline problems, etc. Of course this may mean that to improve America may need to adopt some European policies and spending habits — is that going to happen?
Trouble makers need to be taken out of classrooms.
Agreed. Streaming children earlier may prevent some of the acting out — some acting out occurs due to academic frustration. More behaviour special ed classrooms would also help relieve the general teacher who spends too much time with a few problem students. Again, streaming and more behaviour classes will require more money. Expelling kids isn’t the solution it only redirects the problem as a law and order issue and America already spends too much on corrections.
We should stop telling all our children that they can and should go to college. Not all of them should go to college.
Every teacher no matter the political leanings will agree with this. The disagreements arise when we discuss what to do with non-college students and the added expense of a well run trades education stream.
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Review things like is homework helping? Is it any good, when 90% of the parents either do it for the kid or dont care at all?Maybe there are other ways to reinforce what they learn day to day.
I’m not a big fan of homework simply because I have no knowledge of what happened outside of my room. When insist that work be completed in class, many students try to take it home anyway. However, my assessment and evaluation really isn’t valid on things completed outside the class.
Maybe there are beter ways to encourage parent involvement, maybe theyll take notice when their child has failed 3 grades in a row, rather than being passed on to the 7th grade without knowing how to read.
In either case, most will shoot the messenger ie the teacher.
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Hopesprings,
Thank you, but I have to give the credit to a little girl saying this to a preacher. It is very profound and the first rule we should hold dearly as Christ’s ambassador.
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http://www.lakelandlocal.com/2010/09/class-warfare-mckeel-academy-edition/
Interesting column on charter schools.
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The teacher unions are in bed with the ACLU. This has been a major area of our society where they have removed or villainized Gods values. Many have left public schools because of the liberal values they teach. I could go on and on. When I was in the seventh grade our teacher read the Bible to us. Look to the Old Testament and see what happens when a country removes God from its teachings.
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“The poor do not have a choice, other than a lottery. This is immoral.”
Yikes! Did Cal Thomas actually say that? Has he become a progressive? I realize he is arguing for more choice for all, but it is not a moral question.
This idea that poverty is immoral or that unequal access to government services is immoral is a dangerous one, because it links morality with materialism. It leads omnipotent moral busybodies to try and correct this unfairness through government enforcement, which often just makes things worse.
If government got out of the education business, except for its proper role of setting standards, education would dramatically improve.
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HRW, do you find that some teachers “stay too long at the fair”? They are older, tired and perhaps lack the patience to dink around with a classroom full of antsy second graders or mouthy ninth graders?
I am not a teacher, but having several kids, I’ve observed some wonderful teachers and some not so wonderful. I realize that’s life and know that finances may compel a teacher to continue working. However, it does seem that the kids do suffer in this type of case.
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Didn’t Carter start Amy in a public school to much fanfare, but then quietly move her to Sidwell Friends a little while later?
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Hopesprings;
There are some teachers in which its obvious they are marking time until their pension kicks in, but there are other teachers who do an amazing job until they walk out of the building for the last time. In most cases it relates to health and outside issues. Usually its older women since many take time off to raise their own kids and thus they have to work much later in life than most males. For example; I should be retired with full pension at 57 years old, but my colleague (a very good teacher) is still working into her 60s. Many of the “old school” type teachers have trouble adapting to new conditions and new curriculum.
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I’ve seen both, HRW. Some teachers reach retirement and you wish they could stay on. Thanks for your reply.
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Amy Carter went to Stevens Elementary School and Rose L. Hardy Middle School in Washington D.C. I don’t think she ever attended Sidwell Friends.
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