Prostitution in Canada
If a legal ruling handed down last Tuesday is allowed to stand, prostitutes will gain expanded rights in Ontario, Canada. They’ll be able to work in brothels, conduct extended conversations on the street with potential customers, and hire professional associates like accountants and bodyguards.
I spoke with sexual-trafficking expert Lisa Thompson of the Salvation Army about this development:
WISHING: One of the arguments made in this case was that prostitutes would find safety working in controlled brothels with security systems. What are your thoughts on this matter?
THOMPSON: Prostitution is inherently dangerous wherever it’s practiced. In countries with regimes of legalized, regulated prostitution, violence is an ever-present concern. Mr. Andre van Dorst, a sex-shop owner who also rented rooms to prostituting women in Amsterdam, lamented to The New York Times about the government’s requirement of a pillow in rooms where sex is sold, saying, “You don’t want a pillow in your room. It’s a murder weapon.”
In Antwerp, Belgium, a Mr. De Coninck has reportedly installed biometric scanners in his state-of-the-art 51-room brothel; the scanners ensure that only legally registered prostituting women use the rooms. Each room is also equipped with a panic button next to the bed, which when pushed calls police and sets off a red flashing light in the brothel’s control room. This ironically brought comfort to one prostituting woman who said, “In the old days I worked in a place where you were lucky if the electricity worked and I feared for my life. If something should happen to me and I turn up dead tomorrow—the technology here means that police will know exactly who I am.”
LW: If this law is allowed to stand, what will it mean for human trafficking, people sold into sexual slavery?
LT: Clearly prostitution is not an “option” that appeals to most women, so many of those in the sex trade are there either out of desperation, lack of viable choices, or because they were trafficked into it. A case in point: In 2002, more than half of Italy’s estimated 70,000 prostituting persons were “migrants”—60 percent of which were from Nigeria and 25 percent from Albania. Anti-trafficking experts agree that Nigeria and Albania are major source countries for sexually trafficked women. It requires a ludicrous stretch of the imagination to suppose that 75 percent of the women in prostitution in Italy decided to “migrate” there because the sex trade there was so appealing to them.
LW: Ontario is a skip and a jump from Buffalo, N.Y. Do you think this ruling will increase sex tourism?
LT: Absolutely. The primary effect of legalization is the codification of a male right to purchase sex, and ergo a massive expansion of the commercial sex industry. When a jurisdiction legalizes prostitution they might as well put up a help wanted sign for pimps and traffickers, and start an ad campaign for sex tourists.
LW: What should the church be doing about prostitution?
LT: The church needs to recognize that God didn’t create any human being for the purpose of them being a prostitute, stripper, or pornography performer. We should always love the prostituting person, but relentlessly and systematically work to deconstruct the sex industry. This means lovingly helping people exit the sex trade, combined with efforts such as strongly supporting enforcement of obscenity laws and opposing efforts to legalize prostitution. This also means that the church must get serious about confronting pornography use by men and boys of the church. Pornography is the training manual by which men/boys are trained to objectify women. Males who use pornography or participate in other aspects of the sex industry are the other slaves of the sex trade.

















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back to top55 Comments to “Prostitution in Canada”
Most of those I’ve met or heard speak about criminal activity do so as direct participants at one time or another in their lives. I hope Lisa Thompson is not such a “subject matter expert”
Interesting that feminists arent front and center in opposition to prostitution and the international sex trade. Their silence only makes me wonder how they’ve been bought off themselves.
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“opposing efforts to legalize prostitution”
Because prohibition is working so well.
At the end of the day prostitution is a consensual agreement between two adults that directly affects no one but the two participants. What’s the basis for prohibiting it?
Side note: there are plenty of cases of prostitution by women who aren’t “professionals”. For instance, desperate women have been known to barter sex for rent. We’re going to throw them in jail for that?
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Sawgunner, if Lisa Thompson works for the Salvation Army, it’s very possible that she is a believer. Whether or not she is a “subject matter expert” is unknown, but I would think that if she was, she would be even more passionate about her calling.
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” What’s the basis for prohibiting it?”
Only a man could ask that question.
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Sawgunner: Such speculation on your part is unwarranted and inappropriate on this forum. If you’d follow the link provided, in the post, you’ll discover what drives Lisa Thompson in her work. Here’s an excerpt:
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Sawgunner, if she is a subject matter expert I would remind you that every sinner has a future and every saint has a past.
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Buddy Glass,
Any act of illicit sex affects more than the two parties, and it greatly hurts women. Many want out. Many enter the profession underage (as runaways or drug addicts). It hurts the children born to these women (or conceived and aborted), the man’s family, and society in general. It drives up crime rates. The women themselves are very likely to be victims of violence, including murder.
Do just a little reading on the subject and you’ll see this is far from a victimless crime.
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Cheryl — good post. It is very disturbing to hear anyone defend prostitution as a reasonable and free and unharmful-to-anyone-else choice; and of course no one is suggesting that we throw all the prostitutes in jail (now throwing the johns in jail might be a good consideration…)The basis for prohibiting it is to at least give some hope for stopping such blatant exploitation of women, teens, children, etc. I’ve worked with teen and young adult prostitutes — never met one who looked like Julia Roberts (I hated that movie!) and ended up married to a millionaire.
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Mickey, my apologies for saying it’s “unknown”. I should have read more carefully.
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Hollywood is seldom held accountable for what they do with movies like “Pretty Woman” that romanticize prostitution.
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And while I am on a rant…I think it is very naive to define prostitution as “At the end of the day prostitution is a consensual agreement between two adults that directly affects no one but the two participants.” We aren’t talking about an individual woman picking up a guy at the bar for a one night stand. Prostitution is big business — pimps, brothel owners, traffikers, mobsters, (governments?)…affecting neighborhoods, families, children, homeless runaway teens…the victims are numerous
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I think for no other reason than it is often a “gateway activity” prostitution should be highly regulated if not banned/outlawed outright. Doubtful Toronto will displace Bangkok as the sex tourism destination. I believe in R.I. thru a weasel word interpretation of a statute, the mob and call girls operate openly in what they term “health clubs”.
I would support putting the “clients” [formerly known as Johns] on a webpage. Both the Louisiana Senator Vitter and the former NY Gov Spitzer were “outted” and their careers ended in total disgrace.
Well almost.
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But…does making it legal increase the incidence? Does it make it safer for the women? Does it make it more or less likely that we catch/ stop the sex trafficking? I want to know the answers.
As a nurse, I’ve worked with many of these women–NOW, while it is illegal. Almost all were a mess, all had been hurt physically (not to mention emotionally, spiritually), usually drug addicted, almost always desperate. Does making it illegal make it go away? We know the answer is NO.
Making it legal MIGHT make it safer for women, but does that then also increase the temptation to men? Do more men participate if it is legal?
Does God bless our nation for pretending it does’t happen, because we call it “illegal?” Does he curse us more for legalizing it than for ignoring the plight of these women now?
I don’t know.
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Let me go on record in oppo to prostitution. It drives down property rates in the neighborhoods where it happens. Homeowners in one Dallas area already rife with SEBs (sexually explicit businesses) were repeatedly finding booze bottles and used(!) condoms on the curbs of their houses.
Since legalization has to bring it out into the open, one would hope that imported non-English speaking women would be identified and helped out of the trade. And then deported back to where they came from?
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URSIE touches on the REAL question. Because it is an illegal activity does it force these women further underground and put them more at risk. If you had to have regular tests for various diseases and a “work permit”, would it help women stay safer and children and minors be more protected as well? If we could do this to protect the ones who are already in prostitution until we could work on a solution to the problem would that not be the more humane and dare I say Christian way?
Quite honestly I don’t know. I do not know the answer. It probably isn’t something we can solve overnight either. After all it is known as the oldest profession.
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@NJL: “Only a man could ask that question.”
Worth pointing out that the judge who struck down these provisions in Canada was a woman?
Megan McArdle:
www (dot) theatlantic (dot) com/business/archive/2008/03/why-is-prostitution-illegal/2934/
Emily Bazelon:
www (dot) slate (dot) com/id/2186243/
Martha Nussbaum:
www (dot) ajc (dot) com/search/content/opinion/2008/03/13/spitzered_0314.html
@Cheryl: “Do just a little reading on the subject and you’ll see this is far from a victimless crime.”
All the things you mention (abuse, coercion, etc.) could be regarded as criminal without prostitution itself being criminal. Also not all prostitution is of that sort. For instance, consider the woman Spitzer was caught with.
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Furthermore, consider the countless women in “relationships” right now who are essentially bartering sex in exchange for financial provision and/or gifts.
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Buddy, I don’t know if you mean to be or not but I am finding your postings really offensive. I am sure there are women out there who are manipulative and work their “womanly wiles” to get vacations, gifts, etc, but not the average every day woman. I personally have been involved in two relationships where sex was involved. I was never “supported” and I paid my own way. Even in my marriage I worked all but a year and a half.
The women we are talking about aren’t making $1,500 for 15 minutes worth of work, recieving fabulous gifts and fancy vacations or I would be interested. The average woman “selling” her body isn’t making that! The average is probably getting 5 or 10 for oral and having to split that with her pimp. Then she feels so disgusted with herself that she spends part of that on drugs to forget what she just did.
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BuddyGlass #17, dont believe everything you read in PLAYBOY or Cosmo. The profession has a high suicide rate. The most pathetic are the “older” women who are cast aside. Literally, as it often turns out.
#18 Kim: thanks for your candor. You brought a chuckle to me as I recalled the old George Bernard Shaw anecdote.
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#19 should read old George B Shaw “haggling over the price” anecdote
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Well Sawgunner, I obviously undervalued myself.
5,000 pounds at the time Shaw would have said this would be a substantial amount today.
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We see how making abortion legal caused the numbers to go through the roof.
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No, I don’t think legalizing it is a good idea, because it means that they can “set up shop” and not be moved by police, it probably brings along more of it, and it makes it an “acceptable” activity. This is wrong, it hurts people, and it should be treated accordingly.
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My understanding of the free market is questionable. The pot legalizers say once its legal the price will drop and Cosa Nostra will back out due to vanishing profits. Unfortunately, criminal dope peddling organizations would presumably go after those competitors foolish enough to undercut the cartel price. Or they’d organize the way diamond brokers do to keep the price sky high [Diamonds are NOT a rare commodity internationally]
Legalized prostitution would presumably also suffer from coercive techniques to eliminate competition. The sex trade is a gold mine for organized crime. To expect them to let it go quietly is somewhat naive, no?
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NJL (#4),
B.G. doesn’t speak for any of the rest of us males!
(Except maybe some of the other leftist males).
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If any here thinks that legalizing this is no big deal, or that it won’t affect the rate of abuse, they are deluding themselves.
Buddyglass, since for now you are the only one in the seat of devil’s advocate, would it be okay for your mom, sister, daughter, aunt or neice to be in this “trade”? Just wondering.
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I just want to clarify that I DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM IS.
I think a first step would be for churches to do something like the Nun character on Law & Order SVU. She has a van and drives around passing out meals and condoms and such to the women. She helps them get out of the life if and when they are ready. How would it be if a church did something like that and helped the women get medical care and let them know that there were real people who cared about them and were willing to help them leave that life?
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Kim, if you want to know the solution to prostitution, I recommend reading the history of the Salvation army and the lives of their founders, William and Catherine Booth. They rescued a majority of girls and women in the trade and crushed the English sex industry.
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ROM116 Thank you for the information.
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@Kim: “I am sure there are women out there who are manipulative and work their “womanly wiles” to get vacations, gifts, etc, but not the average every day woman.”
I totally agree this is not the norm among women. At the same time it’s not totally unheard of either. There are no pimps, there needn’t be any drug use, no abuse by the male partner. A woman wants “stuff” and a man wants “sex”. They come to an agreement, perhaps without spelling it out in so many words, and that’s that. It may even be couched in the context of a marriage. Anna Nicole Smith and J. Howard Marshall anyone?
“The women we are talking about aren’t making $1,500 for 15 minutes worth of work, recieving fabulous gifts and fancy vacations or I would be interested. The average woman “selling” her body isn’t making that!”
I’m fully aware of the fact that most prostitutes aren’t high-dollar call girls.
“The average is probably getting 5 or 10 for oral and having to split that with her pimp. Then she feels so disgusted with herself that she spends part of that on drugs to forget what she just did.”
Yes. Prostitution is soul-destroying and has inherent safety and health risks. But should that be the criteria for criminalizing something? Because it is dangerous and unhealthy? If so, on what grounds would you support the legality of homosexual intercourse? Or heterosexual fornication, for that matter? One could argue each of these are emotionally damaging and carry significant health risks. Does that mean they should be illegal?
@Kbells: “We see how making abortion legal caused the numbers to go through the roof.”
And we see how the prohibition of alcohol did very little except line the pockets of organized crime. If we’re considering examples we should consider all of them.
@CherylD: “No, I don’t think legalizing it is a good idea, because it means that they can “set up shop” and not be moved by police…”
Whereas currently cops demand “freebies” in exchange for not making an arrest…
@Sawgunner: “pot legalizers say once its legal the price will drop and Cosa Nostra will back out due to vanishing profits. Unfortunately, criminal dope peddling organizations would presumably go after those competitors foolish enough to undercut the cartel price.”
Ask yourself why armed gangs aren’t smuggling tobacco cigarettes into the United States.
#26: “would it be okay for your mom, sister, daughter, aunt or neice to be in this “trade”?”
Of course not. It’s soul-destroying and dangerous. I would counsel any woman I met against prostituting herself, just like I would counsel any woman I met against becoming a raging alcoholic. At stake isn’t whether prostitution is a “good thing” (it most assuredly is not) but whether it should be illegal.
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I actually googled the Nevada Chicken Ranch. Those women have access to health care and retirement planning. Years ago there was a former police woman who made the rounds on all the talk shows advocating the legalization of it. She found out just how much she could make while she was “under cover”.
Once again, I repeat: I DO NOT HAVE THE SOLUTION NOR DO I PRETEND TO KNOW IT ALL.
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Desperate women bartering sex for rent is despicable — on the part of the landlord taking advantage of the desperation.
If I lived in Nevada where prostitution is legal and I were a judge, I would have to decide a case differently than if I were a judge in NJ where it is not legal.
I’m reading the same old excuses here. I’ll be the same people arguing in favor of prostitution wouldn’t have a problem buying a kidney off a poor person from India either.
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A moral person would know the answer to whether it should be illegal or not.
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I’ve been arguing here for years that the theoretical construct of two equal partners making a mutual beneficial exchange in the open market does not exist in reality. I find it highly ironic that in discussing an issue with a moral dimension some who disagreed with me in the past now argue that markets have unequal exchanges. However, I would argue that making prostitution illegal makes the exchange even more unequal as the prostitute has no legal recourse or protection.
As for the prediction that if this holding is upheld by the higher courts sex tourism will increase — has anyone been to Windsor (across from Detroit)? With very slack stripper rules and massage parlors, prostitution is more or less in the open already. Combined with a lower drinking age and a tolerant attitude toward cannabis, “sin” tourism in border towns is already quite common.
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When all is said and done, all the fancy arguments and rationalizations and philosophizing…I just find it really sad that “good” and “moral” people can no longer even agree that saying okay to prostitution (which legalizing does) is a bad thing for us as a people. We have completely given up on protecting victims. I guess I am too much of a black and white thinker, but this is so sad for all of us.
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Buddy Glass, I recommend checking your sources considering tobacco smuggling. Cigarettes and cigars are imported by organized crime for sail on the black market. I am not sure about now but before this whole explosion in violence in Mexico, there were many people smuggling cigarettes across the border to avoid the excise taxes.
Also, to Kim, your welcome. I think you will find that the history surrounding the Salvation Army should provide many lessons when it comes to solving problems such as prostitution, welfare traps, hunger, homelessness, and poverty through effective means.
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HRW, prostitution, whether legal or illegal, is entwined with organized crime. It is an industry that is if not impossible, but nearly so to free from organized crime. Making prostitution illegal though would not harm the prostitutes but could in fact benefit them if the johns and the pimps were jailed and the prostitutes given opportunities to flourish economically and as a person elsewhere. If they were provided with the necessary psychological help and training for a job, they could, can, and will become productive members of society. I know people who work at rescuing women and children from this trade and a few of those they have rescued. If given the proper help and opportunity, many women trapped in the sex industry will go for it.
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#30
If I recall right, Eddy Murphy’s cop character in Beverly Hills Cop (first film) was actually busting up a ring whose task was to haul in cigs to one state from another to avoid one state’s income tax on them.
Trafficking in cigarettes? I do believe it happens cuz there is profit and it probably isnt high on most police radar screen
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NJLawyer (30): A moral person would know the answer to whether it should be illegal or not.
Frank: That’s quite the non sequitur you’ve got there, NJL. I’m surprised at you! (I think.)
Morality and legality, though related, are not the same things. Biblically, all crimes are sins, but not all sins are crimes.
Is gluttony or drunkenness sinful? Certainly.
But — biblically speaking — are either one crimes?
Make no mistake, I’m in no hurry to legalize prostitution. But Christians should seek to apply biblical principles, not merely “moral” ones, when considering whether or not a particular behavior ought to be criminalized.
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(That should suffice to indicate that I’m pretty much in Kim’s camp on this.)
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#36: “Cigarettes and cigars are imported by organized crime for sail on the black market.”
To whatever extent they are, the market around black market cigarettes is dwarfed by the enterprise surrounding the import and sale of illicit drugs.
Sawgunner envisioned a system where cartels would stamp out anyone who tried to legally produce their product at a cheaper rate. I don’t think RJR Reynoleds or Phillip Morris are that worried.
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Frank, when it comes to prostitution, don’t split hairs.
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Frank, thanks for 39. I wanted to respond to the assumption behind that statement, since legal and moral aren’t the same thing, and one might legitimately make an argument that legalization is better for the women involved. I think it probably is not, but a person who makes that argument isn’t necessarily speaking out “in favor” of prostitution. And anyway, we should debate whether a law is good or bad, not say “the behavior is bad, therefore it goes without saying that the law is good.” By that argument, I suppose we might as well have laws against eating Twinkies, and we certainly could have laws against unmarried couples living together.
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Well well, the politicaians and courts are at it again. Whenever there is real work to be done they throw out a hot potatoe that ensures the game uproar, were brow beating reins and cool heads never rule. Buddyglass you are adorable and Frank you are on the right track.
The high moral ground has never been to briliant when forging laws that last. Hipocracy has been around as long as the big bang, along with the oldest trade in the world.Religion, courts, parlement,educational institutions, and even our own back yards.
Women either like or hate the profession, due to human trafficing, straying husbands and boyfriends. Men hate what they can’t have or regulate to their advantage.
So know what?
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The problem is that the Canadian judge based her ruling on the Canadian Charter of Rights which is the equivalent of saying that a person has the constitutional right to be a prostitute and that the government of Ontario has limited legal right to regulate it. The finding that it is constitutional is another example of courts legislating. Prositution is the worlds oldest profession, although not one that most parents would want a child, male or female to pursue. No culture will ever rid itself of it. Most prostitutes, as Freud observed, have been sexually abused as children, although many who are sexually abused do not become prostitutes. The control of prostitution should be up to the legislature, as should abortion and so called “homosexual marriage.” However the Canadian courts, I believe, have ruled that the Canadian Charter of Rights permits abortion and allows “homosexual marriage.”
What I disagree with in this posting is the jargon “objectifying women” whatever the phrase means. As a rule, a boy and indeed a girl, who has a healthy relationship with his/her mother, will, as an adult, be able to have a healthy relationship with women. I keep wondering what Robert Pictons’ mother was like.
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Side note about criminalizing the sale of sex: women who are convicted of prostitution carry that criminal record with them for the rest of their lives, thereby making it all the more difficult to get a legitimate job and leave the profession.
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When prostitution is legalized in a socialist country, women who are dependent on the government for welfare, are at risk of being forced to take a job offered her by a pimp, or lose her welfare cheque. This happens in my home country, because if you are on the dole, you can’t turn down a job offer for which you are qualified. You can’t turn down a job in a brothel on moral grounds, because if the govt says it’s legal, it must be good.
Alot of people who support legalizing prostitution do so because they see it as unfair that the woman gets punished and not the man. Fair enough, Punish the man more. How about the death penalty for any man knowingly paying for the use of a sex slave? And the death penalty for anyone who kidnaps a girl or woman to sell as a sex slave? That sounds fair to me.
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NJLAWYER (42(: Frank, when it comes to prostitution, don’t split hairs.
Frank: How is a call for a consideration of the biblical testimony on any matter to be characterized as “splitting hairs”?
Please elaborate.
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If I were observing a trial and one of the lawyers’ arguments amounted to, “Any moral person would see the truth of my client’s claim,” I wouldn’t be impressed.
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To grease the skids a bit, NJL, let me lay my cards on the table right up front:
I consider myself a theonomist and (thus) a Christian libertarian. I am convinced that when man submits himself to God’s law, even in the realm of the civil magistrate, he enjoys the most possible liberty.
But “liberty” must be defined in the context of God’s revealed will for man, not by man’s own fallen heart. Thus, God’s law, not man’s reason, must be the horse that drives the cart of man’s desire for liberty.
As a theonomist, I had once pretty much assumed that the Bible criminalizes prostitution (much as it criminalizes various other sexual sins). Funny thing is, the few times I’ve looked it up in Scripture, I haven’t found anything supporting that.
The one thing I have noted is that often prostitution is spoken of in connection with idolatry — pagan temple worship and the like.
While today, prostitution has virtually nothing to do with “that kind” of idolatry, I am still convinced that it is connected to the broad idolization of all things sexual.
So my default position — in my gut, and maybe even because I consider myself a “moral person” — I still suspect that the Bible considers prostitution criminal behavior.
I simply haven’t encountered a comprehensive argument from Scripture that says it is more than sinful.
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Buddy I recommend reading post #37.
Also, Contented-Joy brought up a very good point.
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For the life of me I can’t figure out why Judah visited a prostitute on the side of the road.
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I read post #37; I just disagree. In the various countries where prostitution is legal it is not inextricably linked to organized crime. And to whatever extent is is, it would be diminished by decriminalization.
CJ does raise some good points, but I’m curious which you’re referring to since there were several. The fear of women being forced into prostitution to get off welfare isn’t a legitimate one as far as I’m concerned. The point about punishing the johns but not the prostitutes is how its handled in Sweden. Other countries that have legal prostitution (i.e. the UK) have a separate criminal penalty for purchasing sex from someone who is essentially a slave. (While prostitution is legal in the UK, they nevertheless ban brothels, pimping, and public solicitation. Which seems reasonable.)
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Prior to this ruling, the act of prostitution itself was not illegal in Ontario. However, much of the activity around it was/is illegal such as solicitation, keeping a public bawdy house, living off the avails of a prostitution, etc.
CJ’s point has been raised before. But the only case I’ve heard occurred in Germany and was immediately changed.
ROM116 — making an act illegal immediately attracts organized crime whereas legalizing something makes it more difficult for organized crime to participate. Prohibition is an example.
#45 – to be specific, the Cdn courts only rule laws invalid, they do not legislate. In the case of abortion, they suspended the law and told parliament they needed to rewrite it. Parliament declined to act and thus Canada has no abortion law. Same sex marriage occurred in similar fashion – the court told the parliament that the law was discriminatory and it needed to be rewritten. There were different options but parliament chose same sex marriage over other options such as civil unions. Interestingly, the court once suspended marijuana possession rules in Ontario but the parliament chose not to take the court’s direction and simply change the law in a minimal fashion.
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HRW, the act is already illegal, and you have also failed to read my posts. The johns, pimps, and the brothels are what need to be targeted by the criminal justice system in order to fight prostitution. Women and children caught in the industry should be helped, not prosecuted. Which is what I pretty much just posted.
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