The Entitlement Generation
High schools and colleges are flooded with students who confuse busyness with performance. They have been misled to believe that they deserve A’s for turning in anything, and that the burden of proof is on the professor to defend why a student has not been “given” an A.
This group of teens and 20-somethings is known as the Entitlement Generation, “who believe they are owed certain rights and benefits without further justification,” according to Dictionary.com. Unfortunately for teachers, this entitlement includes the expectation of A’s without having to prove that one’s work warrants it, which introduces interesting frustrations in education today.
First, students assume that if, for example, they do not receive an “A” on a paper, then points must have been “taken off” for something done incorrectly. I’ve had to explain to students repeatedly, ad nauseam, at every level in my teaching career—high school, seminary, and now college—that they did not earn an A because their papers were not impressive. I would tell them, “You did nothing wrong; the paper simply wasn’t stellar.” What kind of world do we live in where students are nurtured to believe that if they did not receive an A it was only because of an error? Why would students expect an A in the first place unless it was warranted? Staying up late and working hard, at the last minute, does not mean you are owed anything.
Second, students confuse memorizing with understanding. Many students have been nurtured to memorize and regurgitate data as a demonstration of acumen. Therefore, when I ask students to explain and apply what they’ve memorized I often see white space on paper or hear crickets. Memorization is neither knowledge nor understanding. Memorization does not translate into application.
Third, students assume that if they easily can find information on the internet, or from some other readily available source, they don’t need to know it. The objection goes something like this, “Why are you making us learn this stuff when we can just Google it?” I wish I was kidding when I tell you that the Entitlement Generation balks at the idea of being made to learn things that are available online, but it’s true. It is similar logic that asks, “Why do I have to learn math when I can perform those functions on my cell phone?”
Fourth, if the going gets tough, quit. One could also name this group the “Quitter Generation.” Virtues like patience and perseverance are absent from many in this age bracket. Coddled by affluence and sinfully flattered by parents and nice-guy teachers using speech meant not to hurt a child’s “feelings” or damage “self-esteem,” coupled with parents that refuse to let their children fail at anything, this generation bails quickly when the going gets tough or if there’s no guarantee for success. I had a student drop one of my classes once because he realized that he wasn’t going to receive an A. I’ve known students to give up and fail a class after receiving a series of bad grades instead of buckling down and working harder to raise their grades. It’s pathetic.
I particularly feel bad for businesses that employ young workers who believe that they are entitled to non-performance-based high salaries and will quit when things get tough. I don’t know what could change this attitude but, in the meantime, I’ll have to continue to serve as the reality check that “you’re not as awesome as you were told” and that you’ll never succeed in life, or in my class, with a poor work ethic and a quitter’s attitude.

















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back to top77 Comments to “The Entitlement Generation”
Excellent description of one glaring aspect of the generation nurtured by self-esteem who never had to eat anything but chicken nuggets and never fell out of a swing and hurt themselves because they were strapped in and the ground was covered by six inches of mulch. (Many did have to endure life with no siblings in a one-parent family, but those things aren’t seen as hardships today.)
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Thank you, Anthony, this is actually very encouraging to me. Sometimes I forget what we are doing has value and you have reminded me. My day is better for it and back to the fray.
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I’m 25, almost 26, so I suppose I fall into this range.
The only class I ever withdrew from in college was a class that was not what I expected from the title and description, nor did I think I could stand a whole semester of it, and it was not a required course. All the other classes I took, even some required classes that I thought were dumb (and really were), I endured, and at times did not receive the best grade I probably could have, because the class just did not seem relevant to me. So I changed my major and I put forth the effort to do well in those classes, because they were relevant.
I never felt entitled to certain grades, but I also never felt that I actually fit within the generation that I supposedly do.
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Dang those unruly kids! Tarnation!!
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Harking back to the culture idea of Anthony’s last thread, there is a city engineer in So Cal who said he can’t help but racially profile new hires. He knows it’s wrong, but it does make his job easier. He in instantly interested in first generation Vietnamese college grads. He has never hired one that did not grasp the scope of what he was asked to do and all have set right to task. He came to this way of looking at things after a string of affluent Causasian kids balked and blundered and then asked for unearned rasies. The last White kid he let go said to him, “I’m getting a little annoyed that you come in every morning and immediately tell me what to do.”
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Serious inditement.
Professors used red pencil to describe my shortcomings.
I still remember some of the test questions that were thrown at me. Questions that memorization couldn’t help:
1. Was Queen Elizabeth a Catholic or Protestant?
2. Compare the legacies of the Greek and Roman civilizations.
3. Describe Job’s God. (That one still gets to me.)
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Sigh.
May I suggest part of the problem is many young people don’t have practical experience with a real job? There’s something about having to be somewhere on time and doing the right thing or you’re fired that focuses the mind and teaches them an important lesson that doesn’t come from a book or a screen.
Well-intentioned laws about not allowing young people to work at even McDonald’s until they’re 18, means many don’t learn the give and take of earning money by their own efforts. It’s a big problem among my kids’ peers in middle to upper middle-class American and must be worse in places where even fewer jobs are available.
Our society has turned from individualists responsible for their own destiny, into people who feel they should always get a second or even third chance to do what they should have done right the first time. That may be okay in four-square, but it’s deadly in the real world.
Thanks for your hard work, Mumsee! And all the other mean parents out there.
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I’m a homeschooler and my oldest is not quite nine. We stress chores more than academics at this point. We figure, work ethic and good character are built early and earnestly; academics come fairly easily when work ethic and strong character are in place first. Don’t put the cart before the horse. My little people don’t get it, their friends have few chores, and they seem to do more academics than my kids. But I am seen some progress in character that translates to getting their schoolwork done well and timely, and I think the physical “labor” of chores helps with this discipline. As they get their chores AND “reading, ‘riting, ‘rithmetic” completed we add in more schoolish AND fun things.
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Anthony this is a riot.
You’re upset that they confuse memory with understand…so why make them dedicate all their time and effort to memorizing the things they can easily find on the net or in other reference materials? You’re not demonstrating a coherent pedagogy, which is why you sound like a grumpy old man and not an intelligent person (though those are not exclusive).
How much of there out of class work time are you asking them to dedicate to independent thinking and how much to memorizing stuff from reference materials? You actually have some say so over how they spend their time you know, it’s your fault if they are habitually not getting it.
Students today are paying more for school, graduating with piles of debt, and working 20-40 hours a week to keep themselves there (though at King’s College that might not be the case).
And seriously, you’re at King’s! If you’re meeting snot nosed, entitled brats they are coming out of the disciplinarian, Christian, ultra-heterosexual families you purport are becoming so rare, yet are the key to saving us from all this liberal entitlement!
I generally have sympathy for the over worked students that think meeting the course requirements in an exemplary way should warrant a good grade…rather than having to say…dedicate additional hours worrying about whether the underpaid, overly self important professor with little but his own sense of impressiveness is properly impressed with their work, that may or may not have anything to do with the course objectives or their own future aspirations!
I think you might be mistaking “the going getting tough” with students just not being willing to put up with you. Seriously. I’ve never heard of a professor with a string of withdraws from his class who didn’t spend at least some self-reflexive time wondering if maybe he was the problem! But I get that self-reflexivity is not a large value in conservative scholarship…better to blame that blasted teenagers!
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Like BeckyF, I too am twenty-five and I teach introductory writing and literature at a large state university. For my writing course, I asked students to argue whether the Internet makes human beings smarter or dumber. Only a few picked up on the idea that Googling the capital of Italy or math equations does not actually make you smarter, assuming (apparently) that having a massive encyclopedia that you only periodically opened would also make you smarter by virtue of sitting on your shelf.
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Just watch AMERICAN IDOL to see how people were told that they are great singers by friends and family. Then when experts tell them they can’t sing, they get furious and tell them they don’t know what they are talking about.
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Everything Anthony says here is true of: 1)kids who go to college and 2) kids who drop out of highschool. In between are many who know the virtue of hard work and the value of a dollar.
This is actually good news for those who, like my sons, are hard-working and college-educated. It’s easy for them to look better than their peers.
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Don’t want to burst anyone’s bubble, but I didn’t have to work any summer jobs; didn’t work until it was full-time employment. We had chores to do. It may be that we only had one car and we couldn’t get around to jobs easily, but there it is. We were expected to do our homework and get good grades. And we did if only because we didn’t want to see the looks on our parents’ faces if we got a “c.” Not that we got in trouble or got a lecture. We just knew that’s what was expected. I have no idea what would have happened if we’d failed a class.
In law school, I was paranoid because we were told straight out if you got all As in high school and college to get over it because it wasn’t going to happen there. So, these kids have some comeuppance coming if they continue their education, or they will lose their jobs.
I think the problem started when teachers became liberals, which means they gave up their spines. Heaven forbid you should tell a parent of a little kid that the kid needs to improve. That’s where it starts — in kindergarten. We had “needs improvement” — and the parents were expected to make that happen.
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We used to tell the kids that doing your work well, quickly, with integrity, right the first time, would lead to a good job and respect. Then, completely without reason, my husband was demoted. His successor is at a loss to explain why everyone respected my husband–except the boss and his superiors. My husband’s previous and current bosses want him to lie, while he continues in integrity and seemingly is punished for it. The HR department has repeatedly ignored his warnings of his previous boss’s lies, thievings, womanizing, and now he’s uncovering more mismanagement in this new postion. They wouldn’t enforce simple standards for his employees (dress code, no alcohol, show up & on time, work with a pleasant demeanor, show respect to everyone, etc.) but held him responsible for their failures. Anthony’s “entitilement generation” to a T. No one cares, don’t rock the boat, go along with the lies since they haven’t been caught yet in a legal tangle.
Unfortunately for us, we’re not seeing a “just reward” at this time for his integrity. We’re trusting God, although we don’t see the why behind these events. I guess like many of the Proverbs, “work hard and honestly and be rewarded” is a truism, but not true in every instance. We’re not expecting “entitlement” but it all seems turned upside down in this place, where corruption, mismanagement and serious personal failures are rewarded.
We keep teaching the kids do what’s right, even if there’s no reward in this world.
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I don’t think we should just be calling this current generation the entitlement generation. This has been going on for a long time. And now we have executives who mess up and go to the government for a bailout, just like they went to mommy and daddy who went after the teachers.
The country as a whole lacks integrity and morality. This is what you get when you turn your back on God. There are biblical truths that transcend all generations.
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TEACHING
Here they tried (maybe succeeded) to do away with the Letter grading system. I think it became PASS/FAIL (or something like that) in some places. Fail would be negative so maybe they used something that had different wording. It seems so long ago, and maybe in a galaxy far, far away.
Remember EBONICS and don’t correct a student’s speech? — self-esteem and all. And do NOT use RED ink to correct a student’s paper.
Now we have a bunch of adults who don’t know how to speak. My ears are bleeding from the stuff that comes out of peoples’ mouths. He have done it. ??? Nook-u-ler? Real-i-tor? Q-pon?
I even see books with “then” and “than” used incorrectly, among other things.
I’m no English major, but I did learn the correct way to speak.
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And as a continuation…because I assume that most of the kids to teach at King’s are white…I have found that one great way to break little white kids of their irrational sense of entitlement is to put them in a social movements, ethnic studies, or sociology class where they can learn just how much they have benefited from past repression of people who didn’t have the “good fortune” to be born with socially approved skin tones! There really is nothing like a good left-wing social justice driven course on economic and social disparity to quash little white kids’ sense of self-importance. No such course exists at King’s?!
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#9 Mynock – I completely agree with Anthony in his estimation of his students, and MY students are not “coming out of the disciplinarian, Christian, ultra-heterosexual families.” I taught at a public high school and now teach at a state college (the lowest level writing classes).
“You actually have some say so over how they spend their time you know, it’s your fault if they are habitually not getting it.” You’re right – we as teachers do have some say over how they spend their time, but as every teacher (good or bad) knows, it isn’t fully our fault if students aren’t “getting it.”
When I was younger, I used to think that everyone should go to college. Now I know better. There are many students in my prep writing classes (translation: low-level classes required for students who couldn’t pass the placement test) who simply should not be there. They should not be trying for a college degree. It isn’t even that they’re “dumb” – just that they’re not cut out for college-level requirements, even if they do work very hard (and some of my students have worked very, very hard – but they won’t pass the exit tests, and likely never will).
Teaching is a two-way street. We could have the most interesting, relevant, applicable lesson plans delivered with aplomb, passion, and personality, but if students choose not to do their part (or, sadly, if they are unable to), that failure doesn’t – and shouldn’t – fall on the instructor.
I find that usually people who have never been in the classroom at a public institution find it easy to throw stones. Teaching is like marriage: until you’ve been in it, you have absolutely no idea what it’s like. Firsthand experience (and that’s the experience of teaching, NOT observation) provides true knowledge about the state of teaching.
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One particularly annoying example of entitlement I’m currently running into as the end of the semester nears: Students who suddenly realize how their grade is affected by not turning in work earlier in the semester. They ask me if they can still turn it in. I show that they were not absent on the days in question; they weren’t absent, so they can’t make up the work. They ask me if they can turn it in anyway – you know, because their grade is low, and they need to raise it. I say no. They knew the consequences and chose not to do the work. End of story.
My hope is that they take the lesson learned in my class and apply it to the next.
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Vivianp,
I have taught at a college level too, in an intro class (whether the bright ones and the dull ones alike come though, at a state school! Intro to Oral Communication, to be exact.
You’re having trouble with kids pestering you about why they didn’t get an A? Have you tried creating a rubric that you share with them before hand? Than when you get a kid who complains you can say…
“See this box next to ‘Synthesizes ideas from the text with original observations’? See how that’s NOT CHECKED? That’s why you didn’t get an A… because you didn’t do that!”
And seriously, if you’re having a string of students withdraw…spend some time thinking about you!
And Re: going gets tough:
All of the communications teachers I know will not allow students to make up speeches if they miss their scheduled day. And the advice usually given is, “Look this was a lot of your grade, there’s no shame in withdrawing and trying again next semester. If you had a legit excuse for not being here, I’ll help you get the W taken off of your transcript. That’s what special exceptions are for.”
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I don’t see where Anthony is asking his students to memorize facts. He is expecting them to understand the subject matter. Know the that important dates of the Teapot Dome scandal is quite different than knowing why it happened and what the ramifications were.
We have a friend who sailed through high school and pre-med with easy As, but when he was his first performance in med-school was met rated less than stellar realized how much he didn’t understand. He had to roll up his sleeves to be average, but the hard work paid off. He is one of the best GIs in SD County.
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Speaking of having trouble synthesizing things from the text, are you sure you read all of Anthony’s article Mynock?
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Mynock, of course I have a rubric which naturally I share and review with students ahead of time. Please. (*shaking head*)
You are right, though – the rubric should be a solid fallback (CYA) to rely upon. (Though, as colleagues and I discussed recently, today’s crop of students often refuse to accept rubric language as justification for a grade and still argue over the language itself and how subjective writing is. Sigh.)
As for withdrawals – unfortunately, the majority of those who should have withdrawn never did. They simply disappeared one day and never came back. I’ve been assured by my dept chair and numerous other instructors that *for this class* (the prep level), that is the norm. Mainly because they want to get the loan money and skip town. I guess at state colleges and community colleges, that’s a common occurrence.
Another example of entitlement?
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@Bradley: “You did nothing wrong; the paper simply wasn’t stellar.”
This strikes me as annoying semantics. If a paper was only average and not stellar, then something about it is “wrong”. Correct whatever made it “average” instead of “stellar” and you get an A. For instance, maybe what they “did wrong” was “fail to say anything that demonstrates special insight into the topic at hand”.
@Bradley: “Third, students assume that if they easily can find information on the internet, or from some other readily available source, they don’t need to know it.”
To a certain extent you’re correct. Having certain knowledge “in brain” allows one to “use” that knowledge to synthesize other facts in a way that’s not possible when one has to go out to secondary storage (google) to retrieve it.
On the other hand, lots of things can be left out on google and not memorized. Perhaps a few that certain educators feel should be memorized instead. I’m a software developer. I haven’t memorized the method signature of every method on every Java class. But I use them every day. The authors of source code editors know this, so they came up with something called “auto-complete”.
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“break little white kids of their irrational sense of entitlement”
Well, Mynock, that sounds rather racist.
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In other words, I wouldn’t let you teach my kid in elementary school, high school or college. Wouldn’t pay you.
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Mrs NewsToMe, for you: Things We Say Wrong.
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I have no doubt that you see a lot of vanishing students at your level, which is pretty much equal to where I have taught, that is definitely the norm. But I don’t see that as a generational problem that affects “kid’s today”! I see that as the norm.
What upsets me, is that this is called an epidemic by people whose real agenda isn’t improving education, but scoring political points against the liberals to populations than have nothing to do with teaching. They yell from the ivory tower to people far removed from that they tower is coming down and it’s all those damn liberals fault…meanwhile the tower just does what it’s always done.
And what you’re writing is a lot different than what Anthony is writing. If you’re talking to your department heads about your withdraw rate, that sounds self-reflexive.
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“Well, Mynock, that sounds rather racist.
It has half tongue in cheek, but this is a discussion about students’ sense of entitlement. Often the misinformation among white students that has to be corrected is the silly notion that they have gotten where they are on merit alone and that racism and unfair privilege have nothing to do with the status they enjoy.
In other words, I wouldn’t let you teach my kid in elementary school, high school or college. Wouldn’t pay you.
I’ll worry about that when you have kids…and I’m teaching at King’s College! ;-P
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Adios, thanks for your comment. I feel like I am going to not have a problem obtaining a job if there are that many people with entitlement syndrome in my generation and field of study.
To Mynock, being white never gave people special privileges in this country. My ancestors on my grandfather’s side were Irish, and they were lynched by the KKK and were hated more than pretty much every other immigrant group because they were Catholic, and of course were Irish which is the opposite of what all proper WASP’s hold dear. To quote several friends of mine from Harlem to the Bronx, the Irish in this country were once black.
Also your racist assumptions that being white automatically makes them have everything is also false. I lived 3 years in the middle of the woods PA, and the white people there are far from the rich entitled aristocrats you believe they all are.
Also I loved my required writing class. Most kids get their papers back bleeding in red ink, where the ink is dripping of the page. I handed in my first rough draft and my professor told me I could hand it in as my final and get an A. He proceeded to ask me why I chose to study engineering instead of English or some other liberal arts. Personally I think its because I tend to like hard material, and I find math and science hard. Also I want to study something that involves learning a skill that is useful in the workplace and can get job offers. Writing does not pay well for most writers.
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Mynock, I’m not the one calling little kids racists. That’s you. You wrote it, I didn’t.
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And if that’s how you feel about little kids….
Well, your hostility is showing again.
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“Mynock, I’m not the one calling little kids racists. That’s you. You wrote it, I didn’t.”
Actually, that’s not written anywhere!
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“…so why make them dedicate all their time and effort to memorizing the things they can easily find on the net or in other reference materials?” – Mynock, post #9
Maybe the following examples will illustate Anthony’s point:
“How much of there (sic) out of class work time…” – Mynock, post #9
“ Than (sic) when you get a kid who complains…” – Mynock, post #20
“a generational problem that affects “kid’s (sic) today”!” – Mynock, post #28
Basic rules of grammar and usage can be found on the net or in other reference materials. In the above cases, it doesn’t seem to have helped. Maybe you should have memorized them.
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The greatest issue in play is the refusal to address the core issue at stake in this article and among the respondents. Which shows more loving concern for students – easy “A”s or tough grading? Speaking as one who has received both, I learned much more from the teachers who dared call me average than those who lauded my abilities. It was the hard truth that I was not measuring up that inspired me to discover what truly stood out as superior. Hebrews 12:6 states “the Lord disciplines the one he loves.” As Jonathan Leeman entitled a recent book there is a “surprising offense of God’s love” called discipline. The same is true for those who genuinely have concern for children, students, and people in general. The thought of discipline or rebuke in today’s culture immediately brings up visceral emotions, not thoughts of love. Even so, because of concern and love for a person’s future it becomes necessary to do the hard thing and “speak the truth” doing all that you can to make sure the one’s manner communicates the compassion held for the person.(Ephesians 4:15)
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The article/comments were quite interesting. To one degree or another, you could apply its descriptions to every generation back into the 60’s. But it gets a little worse and a little more socially acceptable with each generation. Now a professor — rather than being viewed aa an estemmed expert and credentializer (I think I made that word up) — is viewed as little more than a hirling whose primary purpose is to meet student demands. If you think that’s wrong, watch a few television commercials for Kaplan University.
Somebody around 1968 decided that schools were dull, joyless places where students were whacked every time they showed any sign of self-esteem. We then went so far in the other direction that “self-esteem” became a cure-all idol. And we have discovered the consequences of that. In terms of grading, many K-12 systems have gone to what is called standards-based grading: Advanced, Proficient, Basic, Below Basic. The entire intervention structure is based on getting to proficient (BTW that’s educationese for a C). So you have kids running home waving their arms excitedly saying, in effect, “I deserve a reward, I’m proficient (I deserve a reward, I am little more than average.).
BTW, please, please somebody explain the term “hyper- heterosexual” to me. If hyper means the same as it does in hyper-neat, or hyper-blue eyes, how does one demonstrate the quality of hyper-heterosexual.
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#9 Mynock – you’re a riot. Your bad grammar and misspellings in a post blasting a professor for poor teaching are delightfully ironic.
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JMJ2K
Excellent points. Sorry I can’t really explain hyper-heterosexual. I went to a state college.
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Ah, grammar policing. Along with comparisons to Hitler, a pillar of internet argument.
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JULIANA 27
That was great!
Thanks
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When you call attention to your own smartitude, BuddyGlass, or other peoples’ dumb-ality, you gotta expect some policing. Mynock kind of blew it.
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This is one thing I love about Dr. Kevin Leman’s parenting books. He encourages parents to let their kids fail sometimes. If you have a kid who will not do his homework, don’t ruin your evening nagging and helping him. Let him go to school without it and come home with an F.
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I agree to the letting them do their own homework, the problem is when they have no consequences at school. People need to encourage the teachers to teach and let the children reap what they sow. We just had a lesson on that today. “I don’t want to study, I want to just take the test.” “Fine, but should you happen to get less than a … you will have to go to bed an hour early until the next test as you clearly need more rest to help you think.” Now if they study and get a lower grade, it is not an issue, but refusing to study and wanting to move along with pathetic grades is one.
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And I was one raised with very few chores, no encouragement to do homework (it is between child and teacher), and no work ethic. I was married for four years with three kids before I stopped waiting for my mom to come clean my house (she never did). I dropped out of college at the first indication they wanted me to work. I never even figured out what or where lab was for Biology 101 or whatever it was. And yet, life goes on.
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9. Mynock, if you gives A’s to every kid who fulfills to the bare requirements what do you give those who go above and beyond?
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Call an entire generation of people what you will, there is nothing new under the sun.
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43. I guess it depends on the child. I have one who worries more about what the teacher thinks of him than what I think and has been known to cry over a B minus. Me? I was happy to pass just enough not have to take the class over.
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I have to agree with Buddyglass, about it not being very helpful to just tell a student his/her paper is just not stellar. One would assume that the criteria required is out for everyone to see and pointing out where the paper falls short should not be difficult.
I also hate when people jump all over spelling or grammar errors on here. Really? Are you sure you should be casting stones? Is is possible you have never written an error? Even with spell check (which I don’t have to use on here) it is easy to make some kind of an error. That is just human nature. This is not to say the same standard should be applied to a paper being handed in!
I have found teachers that seem to delight in making their students feel small. It is one thing to ask for well done classroom work and another to be sadistic. Some teachers actually discourage their students from working harder and learning more because of the teacher’s own bad attitude.
I am not saying that is the case here. Just pointing out the other side of the coin.
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KI: I don’t think anybody cares about others’ grammar, generally; but Cactigal in #37 explains why calling it out here is fitting.
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Mynock, just singling out “little white kids” makes it a racist statement.
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I was homeschooled and had no benefit of class curves or added points. I also got no credit for “effort” or “the right approach” in math. My GPA increased in college because of those factors. I like an A, but I feel an A demonstrates mastery of the material, and when I receive an A because the half the class failed the test so the teacher added points, I feel like my grade is fake.
Also, I am a tutor for pre-nursing Anatomy and Physiology. Every year I tutor students who want to be nurses and do not have the aptitude for it. Sometimes they study incredibly hard, too. But they lack the ability to apply the material they memorized, and so they struggle, and end up failing later on (so far, none of my students has failed A&P). The teacher is amazing, by the way, so the fault is not with him.
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Yes, Mac. Pettiness begets pettiness, I guess.
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Hopesprings, I so agree with you. #46 I have been hearing this about every generation and while we can make some generalities I have found the same characteristics in some people of each generation I have known, including the so-called, great generation.
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KI (#48),
If you were referring to my post at #34, please allow me to clarify.
I was not simply pointing out spelling mistakes; I was pointing out poor usage of words. Using ‘than’ instead of ‘then’ may be a typo, but improper usage of there/their and an unnecessary apostrophe are probably not.
Finally, the real point I was trying to make was that memorizing basic information (such as grammar rules) is not such a bad thing, even though such infomation is easily available on the internet. It could have prevented two (or even three) errors from Mynock’s posts which detracted from any points he was trying to make.
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Of course, you are correct, Scott. I just have seen the spelling/grammar issue used to put others down, when it is unnecessary. You do have a point.
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“Mynock, just singling out ‘little white kids’ makes it a racist statement.”
What an incredibly stupid comment from someone who is vocally pro-racial profiling in law enforcement and TSA security!
No, sorry, I never said the stupid thing you said I said, and saying more stupid things won’t take us back in time so I can say the stupid thing you’d like for me to have said.
Enjoy that one grammar police. And if anyone would like the job of “Mynock Blog Post Editor”, you can email me a resume and cover letter as soon as I land that gig at King’s College!
I said little (and by this I mean “in college”) white kids often feel a sense of entitlement related to falsely believing that their status is entirely the result of merit and not social inequity. I did not say that those same little white kids ascribed to a philosophy of white-superiority (or for that matter of inherent trust for people with white skin standing in TSA lines). That’s all stuff that you made up!
“Mynock, if you gives A’s to every kid who fulfills to the bare requirements what do you give those who go above and beyond?”
Applause. Extra credit. A glowing letter of recommendation. Take your pick. I vastly prefer (and think it’s pedagogically superior) to give assignments with requirements that are not “bare”! It’s okay to actually require that they do a lot!
I also had an art professor with a good take on this. He had it in his syllabus that the requirements themselves were enough o earn you an A-. Anyone who wanted an actual A had to meet with him an plan an additional project. “Meet with him” are kind of key words here though. At no point do I think it’s okay to just give an assignment and then leave students to their own devices as to how to succeed at it.
Additonally, Scott @34: Something of a reading comprehension failure on your part as I was not refuting the value of knowing facts, but pointing out the pedagogical inconsistency of Anthony’s post. He complains that they don’t want to memorize what they can look up in reference material…and then he complains about how all they can do is memorize…as if he’s not at all responsible for guiding their learning and helping them develop skills!
To point out the obvious (I don’t proof read and I don’t have an editor) you really just missed the whole point, and took what I said out of context! If you were my student all this feedback would come to you on a rubric showing where you had lost points!
—The Ultimate Point I was Trying to Make However—
Is that students aren’t walking in with a greater sense of entitlement than they used to. Grouchy conservative professors are claiming that they are…so they can blame liberalism for the fall of reason!
It’s a pretty lame game.
And the only reason I made those half tongue in cheek remarks about quashing little white kids sense of self-importance is to make that point that what you perceive to be a liberal P.C. curriculum is the opposite of what you’re complaining about when you talk sarcastically about self-esteem.
Their is nothing about a liberal education in social justice that is good for self-esteem!
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Oh Scott, I was already drafting a lovely response when you posted at 54, marvelous explanation, thank you. Of course there is a counter argument to be made.
I went to old fashioned Catholic school and have a degree is rhetoric. You don’t do those two things without knowing the then/than, their/they’re/there, and apostrophe rules by heart.
Plus to/too/two, don’t get me started!
But now you’re argument for the love of memorizing facts which was actually never the point has to content with the obvious truth that just because your head knows the rules…it doesn’t mean that your fingers will follow them!
Take anecdotally: I used to get so annoyed that people would misuse “good” and “well” that I became very diligent about never saying “good” when “well” was the adverb called for! I’m afraid I over compensated, because now when people say “How are you?” I blurt out “Well, thank you!” before I can stop myself!
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As a member of the generation being discussed I feel like I must say a couple things in defense of my peers and myself. I graduated from Texas A&M University, a state school, less than a year ago, and am now in seminary.
First, I don’t think there is great value in memorizing many facts that are readily available in reference sources. I think it is best to emphasize understanding the structure of the material over the raw facts and then to require only the memorization of those facts that are key to the system. In my engineering classes this typically played out in being required to understand how to use a formula and what the formula means, but not being required to memorize the formula or the several constants that might go with it. I found my peers had no problem being required to know the system but they objected to being asked to memorize a host of formulas when in practice we knew we would go to reference material for that information. To us it was more a matter of economizing our learning than simply being lazy (although I’m sure we were also a bit lazy).
Second, I had many peers who did struggle to complete school, but the vast majority of them never acted like the deserved a grade. In fact most of them responded to low grades by recognizing their own deficiency, studying more, and working to strengthen their weaknesses. None of these people were quitters in any sense of the word. They hit school with the commitment to finish and several worked outside jobs or took military contracts to pay for school. They did not expect life to give them success but worked as hard as they had to complete the task at hand.
Finally, I don’t think that assumption that just because a class has a curve means its being dumbed down. Admittedly there were some classes I took that were quite easy and even had a curve that made them even easier, but, for me at least, these were the exception. In fact, most of the hardest classes I took were curved. The value of the curve for the professor was that it allowed him to get some true differentiation between the students who understood the material fully, those that were acceptable, and those that did not understand the material. The tests were typically written to be beyond what the “average” student in the class would be able to score a C or better on, but they gave the truly excellent students a chance to shine, helped us average students see what we needed to work on, and ensured that any student that didn’t learn the material would fail miserably.
Oh and by the way, I agree that you cannot tell a student his paper did not deserve an A unless you also tell him what he could have done to earn that A. The purpose of school is to improve and students will not improve unless they are both shown where they are lacking and told how to improve in those areas.
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You have to study history or you are “destined to repeat it.” One of the reasons you need to know some dates is to be able to put the events into a timeline and know what was going on here and over there, so to speak.
You can always reference the Constitution, but if you don’t study it, you won’t know when your rights are being taken from you, and you will easily hand them over to the government.
You just been shown something you are lacking — an overall understanding of how we got where we are.
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I tend to think that if a “child” feels entitled, it’s because he has been taught that way by his parents. However, even if that’s the case, I don’t see it as a cause for criticism. Life has a way of teaching some needed lessons.
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And some of those lessons should be taught when they’re little. All the lefty self-esteem stuff so give everyone an A doesn’t cut it in the real world. Parents and teachers have a duty to prepare the kids for the real world. These kids are a part of society, and all of us will rely on them to get the job done. They won’t be able to if they aren’t taught. What we see in Washington right now is the result of “on the job training.” We can’t afford that. Being little is part of life, and there are life lessons to learn then, too.
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Yes, I think I mentioned that. Of course, parents should do their jobs well while a child is young. But because someone was not taught certain things when they were little, doesn’t mean that they should be categorized and written off.
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No one is writing anyone off except the current system that requires nothing of them.
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All citizens have a stake in whether or not a young adult can support him/herself. Our whole economy depends on it.
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Also, people are not “finished products” when they turn 18 as though they just came out of Santa’s workshop. I know of no parent who has parented perfectly and turned out perfect children. Ideally parents need to do a supurb job of preparation, but life is hardly ideal and most parents do the best they can. Thankfully, people continue to learn and change through life. We have only to look to ourselves to see that our generation wasn’t perfectly prepared and there are those among us who feel entitled as well.
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“All the lefty self-esteem stuff so give everyone an A doesn’t cut it in the real world.”
Yeah, there is nothing “lefty” about all that self-esteem stuff!
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Anthony, I’m always grateful for your perspectives.
Admittedly, I fell into the trap of prioritizing “A’s” over learning throughout my education, as it didn’t seem important to understand until my 3rd year of medical school (and truly, the system and my parenting encouraged such a mentality). Ironically, I remember a philosophy professor who stated he would only give 1 “A” in our honors class of 10 b/c that’s what an “A” represented. Perhaps it’s regrettable that I earned the “A,” as I cared more about outperforming the other 9 than I did what I learned in composing my thesis.
I intend to print this out and save as my children grow, that I may exhort learning and understanding over grades. Pray that I may remember the same.
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Seems hypocritical coming from teachers who have jobs protected by big unions and tenure. Talk about entitlement!
http://www.thecartelmovie.com
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@Mynock. If you need a proofread next time, let me know! It seems as though your Rhetoric professors gave you one too many “A’s” for your “good” work.
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Anthony’s article describes many of my students and I don’t think I’m being hypocritical–my job at a small private school is not protected by a union or tenure.
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I must say though that there are occasional teachers who regularly hand out F’s to make students work harder and reward them with C’s for work, effort, and performance that is well above the A-level. I had a teacher like that in high school, who would give college exams to us. He had no curve and I would regularly get in the 50’s through 70’s. I looked up the grading at Penn State and discovered that for all of these statistic exams, 50 or above was an A. That class got me kicked off the honor roll, even though my GPA was perfect otherwise. But then again that is the role of the modern public school, they seek to make sure you fail at life. If you are in the remedial courses, they just let you lag there and they collect money from the state. If you do well, they fail you in order to push you to work harder to boost the AP performance to, again, get more money from the state. The guidance councilors tried to force me into 6 AP courses senior year, expecting me to get nothing but 5’s. Then when it came for college applications, I was discouraged and hindered from applying to top level schools, as the public school district got money when more students went to ether a state college or the local community colleges. I had to do a lot, including use of force, to get them to mail out my transcripts, applications, etc.
I never wrote this down before, but I think I now know why I have a great distaste for public education.
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“I have found that one great way to break little white kids of their irrational sense of entitlement is to put them in a social movements, ethnic studies, or sociology class where they can learn just how much they have benefited from past repression of people who didn’t have the “good fortune” to be born with socially approved skin tones!”
Mynock, you can’t assume that all white students at a Christian college have sailed through life without hardship and having everything handed to them. I for one, was one such “little white kid.” I grew up poor in a terrible neighborhood in Los Angeles. I was one of just a handful of white kids in my school. I was made fun of and excluded for being white. My family was a complete mess with many drug, alcohol, abuse issues. I had family members in prison. I became a Christian in High School. I worked hard and got good grades and was able to go to a private Christian college with a combination of scholarships, grants, student loans, and working my tail off almost full time.
Also, don’t assume that just because someone is white, they descended from people that persecuted those that weren’t. My mother is from Canada. Her parents were from Italy and Ireland. My father’s mother was a Native American. I don’t know much about my father’s father. All I know is that the three grandparents that I do know about descended from people that also were mistreated and suffered. Also, we can’t assume that someone that is not white has descended from relatives that were persecuted by whites. We have a lovely black couple in our church that are from Africa. They were persectued by other black Africans. Their children went on a mission trip to New Orleans and were heckeled by black teenagers because somehow they viewed it as a “sell out” to their “race” for them to be working alongside of white kids. I understand that there have been terrible things done in our country and there truly is bias and bigotry. Just don’t assume that all minorities have been persectued and that all whites haven’t been persecuted themselves or that they have been persecuters.
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Thank you and Amen! Just call me the “Rubric Queen.” If you (student) do not have exactly what I have asked for (spelled out for you including how many sentences there should be for each category on requested information) then just figure you have lost points, and no, you will not receive a 100. Rubric documentation and spelled out – case closed! Oh, and a lost rubric will cost you 10% of your final grade as clearly stated in the grid.
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@Mynock. If you need a proofread next time, let me know! It seems as though your Rhetoric professors gave you one too many “A’s” for your “good” work.
The grammar policing allows you to criticize Mynock for minutiae while disregarding the very good points he’s making. That’s really its only purpose.
“You strain at a gnat and swallow a camel.”
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A friend describes her high schooler as having “football sense”. So what is football sense? The ability to visualize the field, to know how plays work, and to know where players will be as the play develops. Perhaps only a rare few develop football sense; but I know that while doing so, they perform many drills and repeat their plays till they become second nature.
You need to learn math because there is the limit to the answers you can obtain from your cell phone. Real world problems don’t always come in neat packages such as “calculate the area of this rectangle.” You have to know math to help you analyze one of the frequent problems requiring multiple steps to solve. And while your cell phone may not make mistakes, your eyes and fingers might. You have to know math to know whether the solution is realistic. If you wish to tackle more advance problems, more complex learning will be required.
I am sure there is a subject sense to every field of study, and that developing this sense requires a certain amount of memorization and practice.
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Mynock says: ‘There really is nothing like a good left-wing social justice driven course on economic and social disparity to quash little white kids’ sense of self-importance.’
I was trying to convince my son to go to college, and I did get him to look at the course requirements at the local State University. He told me that all the basic liberal arts course requirements were dumb, so I looked at the descriptions of the choices in these basic courses and had to agree with him. A lot has change since I got my Bachelor’s at that University. I couldn’t in good conscience still recommend him wallowing through that mud to get to the courses that would actually benefit him in his chosen profession.
I did look at the course requirements at the local Junior college first, and those course descriptions were much the same as the ones that I took at the University in the 70’s, so I suggested that he start there and transfer later, but the damage was done and his interest had waned.
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Good post Anthony. Others have pointed out that there were always those who thought they were entitled to great benefits for little effort, and I am sure they are correct, but I believe you are correct that it is getting much worse. But not only with the kids, that’s why, among other things, the Dems can get away with extending pay for no work into years and make health insurance an entitlement. Hey, this whole economic downturn was set off by politicians trying to make home ownership an entitlement. Hopefully people will realize that government is really limited in what it can actually accomplish, and that it usually makes what it dabbles in worse.
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