The rhetoric of violence and hate
As soon as the shell casings hit the parking lot, the American left was trying to capitalize politically on the Gabrielle Giffords assassination attempt.
We all heard Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik, a Democrat, say:
“When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government. The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous. And unfortunately, Arizona I think has become the capital. We have become the mecca for prejudice and bigotry.”
Politico quoted a veteran Democratic political strategist saying, “They need to deftly pin this on the tea partiers. Just like the Clinton White House deftly pinned the Oklahoma City bombing on the militia and anti-government people.”
MoveOn.org was quick off the mark in an email to its supporters:
“The tragedy in Tucson has shaken us all to the core. Facts are still coming in, and we all must be careful not to jump to premature conclusions.
“But in the wake of this disaster one thing is clear: We must put an end to the rhetoric of violence and hate that has exploded in America over the past two years.”
Of course, what’s been different about the last two years is that there has been a Democratic government in Congress and the White House. MoveOn’s implication is clear: “the rhetoric of violence and hate” is a Republican habit. There must have been nothing of this sort, at least none that came to public attention, during George W. Bush’s presidency the previous eight years.
But I remember there being a lot of it, and of the sort that we have never seen before or since. Do you remember when comedian Craig Kilborn of The Late Late Show kicked things off in August 2000 by superimposing the words “snipers wanted” over an image of George W. Bush’s nomination acceptance speech at the Republican National Convention? In 2006, the mockumentary Death of a President, through actual film footage and the wonders of computer-generated imagery, was able to simulate President Bush’s assassination with sickening realism. Even Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., himself let slip the lingua Democratica of political assassination on Bill Maher’s show in 2006. Bin’s Corner, a comedy sharing website, has done a great job of documenting “the rhetoric of violence and hate” against George W. Bush at a multitude of political rallies. (A comedy sharing site is a strange place to find it, no?)
I rarely if ever hear this language among Republicans and conservatives. Nor did I hear it during the Clinton presidency. If my impressions are accurate, perhaps the reason for the difference is the much greater Christian influence within the GOP and a different understanding of the rule of law. Sarah Palin’s “targeting” language seems relatively innocent, playing on her reputation as a hunter, no doubt. But the recent assassination attempt on Giffords does throw it into a context that changes the meaning. Whereas what Terry Tate “virtually” did to Sarah Palin (also here) during the 2008 campaign, brutally knocking her to the ground, is an unambiguous example of the graphic, shocking pornography of violence. And the death-wish language directed at Palin on Twitter (warning: much of it is vulgar and profane) following Saturday’s shooting leaves no doubt as to the feelings of those behind the tweets.
Thankfully, we do not have a culture of political violence and assassination in America. In 2008, we saw an orderly and even friendly transfer of power from a Republican president to a Democratic one after eight years of sharply divided politics (and another eight years before that). Last week we saw the same good-natured transition from a particularly liberal congressional majority to a particularly conservative one.
For that reason, our occasional would-be assassins tend to come from what Ross Douthat calls “a murky landscape where . . . the line between ideological extremism and mental illness gets blurry fast.” So even when rhetoric and imagery go off the rails, those who openly wish for the death of, for example, George W. Bush or Sarah Palin don’t actually do it, and no one is moved to do it for them. Our political culture of decency and of the rule of law restrains people from deep within. But what lies deep within lunatics like Jared Loughner is entirely unpredictable.
But political culture is a fluid and thus fragile thing, and along with it the restraints that keep political anger within the bounds of the law and of fundamental mutual respect. Sending off petitions to secure agreement among political leaders not to use a certain kind of metaphor is like gathering toothpicks to help strengthen a load-bearing wall. This is where neighbor-love and respect for the image of God meet politics. This is where fear of God and habitual trust in His wise and good sovereignty become noticeable by their absence. This is where the Christian cultural heritage starts looking not so bad after all, and worth bolstering.

















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back to top144 Comments to “The rhetoric of violence and hate”
If politics is to blame here, this was an unbalanced person reacting to the left not mending its ways and ignoring the Constitution. He didn’t listen to conservative talk radio.
What are the Democrat’s habits? Never let a crisis go to waste. Attack and destroy anyone who opposes them — did they condemn the rhetoric against Palin when she was running for VP? No.
They don’t have a leg to stand on as far as I am concerned. They were vicious.
Not to mention the fact that by asking for restraints on free speech — a right given to all of us by GOD, not the Dems — they show a decided lack of comprehension about the Constitution and our history. This has been going on for over 200 years.
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The murderer was certifiably angry at this innocent congresswoman in 2007 at a time when all the political vitriol and public rhetoric of hate was dairected against President Bush. And it was livid. Palin and the Tea parties were not even on the high public radar.
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In her recent comments, Sarah Palin ( see http://vimeo.com/18698532 ) averred that Ronald Reagan once said:
* “We must reject the idea that every time a law is broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker…”
No one of either side is exonerating the lawbreaker here, but it is pathetic that they would use this murder to drag their political opponents through the mud with inuendo and blame (indirect or otherwise) without any legitimate evidence or reason. It is libelous and shameful.
Palin correctly stated that journalists and pundits, within hours of a tragedy unfolding, should not “manufacture a blood libel” that serves to incite hatreds.
But many have done exactly this, and do so with high self righteousness to boot.
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It doesn’t just serve to incite hatreds. It has a mission — to cut the woman down and keep her out of office. (And that has nothing to with whether or not I would vote for her.)
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Thank you for posting this.
In retrospect, the sheriff’s remarks were completely out of bounds and, I think, irresponsible. At the time, listening to it live in my car radio on Saturday, I was somewhat annoyed but thought that perhaps he had some evidence regarding the shooter (or what was then the sought-after 2nd party) that justified or somehow backed up his rather partisan remarks.
Not so, as it turned out. Very strange (and unprofessional?) that he’d take off on that tangent based on nothing but his own private, personal political feelings. ? If nothing else, it just wasn’t the time or place for him to do that.
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It’s so odd when the shoe is on the other foot!
In years past H’wood types and their lib allies repeatedly re-assured us that graphic music videos, violent video games, misogynistic song lyrics IN NO WAY SHAPE FORM OR FASHION could ever influence anyone’s thoughts or conduct.
But conservative talk radio? That stuff could make someone go on a shooting spree!!
Absolutely ludicrous.
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Hillary Clinton did the same thing the sheriff did. She went off on extremists when this guy was a lone mental case. She’s a lawyer, too. She should have waited for facts, but she made the same assumptions.
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Good point, Sawgunner. I plan to use that when the necessity arises.
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As soon as the shell casings hit the parking lot, the American right was trying to deflect political accountability . . .
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Regarding Loughner the mass murderer, none of his videos writings, postings, and other ravings contain a reference to TEA Parties, Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin or the right wing per se. The testimonies from all those who knew him also do not back up any of the hypocritical libelous charges from leftist partisans against right wing rhetoric or figures. The only climate of hate relevent to this was that in the killer’s own head. I don’t blame pagan altars covered with sculls (which this killer apparently had) for this. Nor do I blame atheism (even though this murderer is reported to be one).
The Tucson sheriff, Paul Krugman, Keith Olbermann, and the New York Times are out of line. They are rabid partisans fixated on hating and blaming the right for anything, without evidence. They are politicizing a horrific tragedy.
Remember the Paul Wellstone Memorial Service?
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The American right HAS NO POLITICAL ACCOUNTABILITY here. The man is a schizophrenic. Sorry you can’t handle The People telling you it isn’t going to work this time.
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Scroop Moth has a problem, as usual, with the facts. And with the Constitution. And with medical science. As with science – or analysis – in general.
A pity, as usual – mayhaps we can glean gold from the dirty straw here, though, so to speak.
Perhaps one may suggest another potential thread here on WMB: Specifically on the failure of the education system in America to teach the rudimentary ability to rationally and reasonably make connections, rather than maliciously and dishonorably (and asininely) trying to score cheap political points from the murderous actions of a left-wing nutcase; actions nurtured, prompted, and guided by a brutal and amoral left-wing culture of death.
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Scroop Moth, what are people on the right supposed to do?
“Yup. It’s are fault. We made Jared Lougher pull the trigger.”
Sheesh. . .
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Check out the article by John Hinderaker of PowerLineblog.com.
John begins by saying:
“I think there is a considerable amount of projection going on among liberals. That is, they are attributing to conservatives the hate that they themselves feel. If you doubt that, check out what liberals are saying on Twitter about Sarah Palin, courtesy of Neoneocon:”
John’s first two sentences say exactly what I have been saying for years!!
Check out his link.
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The link is http://www.powerlineblog.com
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“As soon as the shell casings hit the parking lot, the American right was trying to deflect political accountability . . . “
As soon as the shell casings hit the parking lot, the American Left was trying to blame Conservatives, without a shred of evidence or decency, for the violent actions of an evil, apolitical lunatic. Curious animal, this American right, that insists on defending itself when attacked.
Much to Markos Moulitsas’s chagrin, he had to scrub his site of his own targeting of Giffords’s district and his later rant that she was dead to him after publicly blaming Sarah Palin with his nasty “Mission Accomplished” slur immediately following the Tuscon tragedy. Former congressman Paul Kanjorski (D-PA) said in October of FL Governor-elect Rick Scott, “Put him against the wall and shoot him.” before calling for civility in a NY Times editorial yesterday.
These incidents, among many, are emblematic of the left, who decry the “hatred and vitriol and incendiary rhetoric” of Palin, and Limbaugh and Beck and the Tea Party, whose joint discourse is a model of civility against the venom of Olbermann and Schultz. The incendiary nature of Conservative discourse consists solely in that it inflames leftists who cling to their delusions and rabidly attack those who don’t accept their “narrative.”
Michelle Malkin’s reminds us of the temperate, mature leftwing commentary that in no way contributes toward the coarsening of public discourse or inflames any anger like the Right wing that needs to be silenced now. http://michellemalkin.com/2011/01/10/the-progressive-climate-of-hate-an-illustrated-primer-2000-2010/
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I just saw that I wrote “are” instead of “our.”
Oh, well. It fits the left’s stereotype that conservatives are ignorant. The truth is that I type much faster than I think.
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Drill, Laughers’ last you tube video reads like a crazy mans version of Glenn Beck’s chalk board, and the Congress woman shot was “in the cross hairs” of Sarah Palin, Vice presidential candidate and the Queen Bee of a political movement best known for disrupting town hall meetings and revolutionary rhetoric like “second amendment remedies“, and “watering the tree of liberty with the blood of tyrants“. Yet you would have us believe that this murderer was “nurtured, prompted, and guided by a brutal and amoral left-wing culture of death.” Don’t you see that you are shamelessly doing exactly what you are accusing the left is doing? Perhaps we should examine the failure of churches to teach morals as well as the failure of the educational system.
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The guy is not a conservative. He’s a known liberal.
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After Joe Scarborough called out Glenn Beck for his over-the top fear mongering rhetoric on Morning Joe, Glenn Beck responded on his radio show, among other ways, with one of his side-kicks mocking Scarborough’s mother and literally yelling “YOU SUCK” to Joe. This is of course the same Glenn Beck who Sarah Palin praises as a great teacher, “I stand with you Glenn” she said.
She also said “I look at him (Beck) more like a schoolteacher on TV, you know? He’s got that big chalkboard, and those little stickers, the decals. I like the way he does it. He’s gotten a lot better at it.”. No wait, that wasn’t Palin, that was Byron Williams. The Byron Williams who is currently facing four counts of attempted murder in California for getting into a shootout on the freeway with police on his way to kill people at the Tides Foundation. Sorry, Palin and Williams sound the same. It’s easy to get them confused.
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The left are–or soon will be— backpedaling from these harsh accusations and insinuations. My concern is that they will have made their mark on GOP congressmen and women, some of whom are showing a sad want of intestinal fortitude. Pushing back in the media against this unjustified blame is an important way of helping them buck up under the pressure.
Glenn Beck has been pushing a strong message of non-violence for many many months now. Last year he was encouraging people to take the pledge of non-violence given to those in the civil rights movement; and now he is redoubling those efforts by pushing a declaration of non-violence and urging everyone to sign on.
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Here’s an interesting point of view, totally non-political:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/12/arizona-shooting-massacre-raises-question-forgiveness-healing-process/
We could all learn a lot from the Amish.
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KEN – Did you know that right wingers photo-shopped a picture of Rep. Giffords and a target onto the now infamous memo by Kos which called on readers to give money for primary challenges against conservative Democrats? These features were not on the original Kos post, according to Media Matters.
Furthermore, Kos’ audience don’t own guns. They want to take guns away from everybody and they are incapable of shooting to defend their grandmothers, according to Palin. So, even if Kos were inciting the assassination of Rep. Giffords, as right-wingers contend, his volunteers could not have known which end to point, and half of them would have killed themselves.
Nothing scrubbed, either. I read the original memo on Kos yesterday.
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20. So by your logic all who believe in global warming and population control are partly responsible for the Discovery Channel nut.
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Debra, this isn’t about blaming Palin or Beck for the assassination attempt. It’s about trying to prevent the next one.
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Considering the Tea Party founder was quick to send notices telling his members to call the shooter a liberal, it appears both sides were quick to blame each other. (I linked this in an other post)
In truth, the anti-federal gov’t, pro-gold rhetoric suggests he has acquired some knowledge of libertarian ideas floating around the internet and the American landscape but he was unable to create a coherent argument.
Did he lash out at Giffords because he didn’t like her immigration policy (her office had been vandalized by anti-immigrant groups)? was he anti-Semitic? was he a right winger hitting a democratic target? We’ll probably never know but despite the uncertainty about his motivation maybe the political class can take a lesson from the incident that their words have meaning and the meaning can change once the words are released.
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The best way to prevent the “next one” would be for Dems in Congress to wake up and smell the coffee and observe the Constitution.
The guy is a schizophrenic. Get it through your head.
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He IS a liberal.
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KWatson, If that were really true, leftists would be engaging in a little honest introspection and a lot less fingerpointing.
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Oh, they’re not engaged in that. They’re engaged in exploiting the tragedy to raise campaign funds:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/sanders-fundraises-arizona-murders_533487.html
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I’m not surprised the Kos thing was a right wing lie, the internet is now full of fake Laugher myspace pages trying to showing he’s a lefty or Tea Partier. Even if Kos did use gun sites on a graphic, it’s laughable to think the decency standard of a left wing blog should be the benchmark used to judge a former vice-presidential candidate.
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KEN – please take a second look at what lefties have been saying on this blog about the problem of causation and responsibility. Nobody claims Palin is criminally responsible. Nobody claims her crosshairs caused Jared Laughner to pull the trigger (31 times!). Nobody claims Jared Laughner wouldn’t have suffered a psychotic crisis anyway. Instead, we’ve said that the assassination of a member of Congress in Tuscon has a statistical coincidence with the Palin-variable greater than random effect (it’s actually much greater). The inference that culture and environment help shape the kind of delusions that sick people make up is entirely natural. Absent the political environment in Arizona, the assassin might have shaped his delusions around grammarians, advertising executives, computer scientists — or he might have postponed the shaping and acting upon of his psychotic rupture. Schizophrenics in less violent cultures than ours — in Japan, for example — exhibit much less violence. You don’t have to agree with leftists about this discussion, but I think that being fair you would not call it unjustified.
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31. But your side uses small time candidates who lose and tea party signs as a benchmark for the President of the United States. See the defense of Obama’s violent Rhetoric on the other thread.
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Sarah Palin is NOT responsible for any of this. Jared Laughner is responsible. Schizophrenics who are taking medication are not violent. This guy wasn’t taking medication. It is unbelievable that anyone would take a person who is crazy and link him to what he probably never heard. According to his friends, he didn’t listen or watch political news.
But then again, leftists don’t take responsibility for anything and certainly wouldn’t expect the guilty party to take responsibility, not when they can find a victim elsewhere.
No honesty. None at all.
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NJL says “The best way to prevent the “next one” would be for Dems in Congress to wake up and smell the coffee and observe the Constitution.”
You’ve made your position perfectly clear. It’s up to the Dems to change their ways or be shot.
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Here’s the general gist of our conversations on this topic–
A: It’s Sarah Palin’s fault.
B: Stop blaming Sarah Palin.
A: Nobody’s blaming Sarah Palin.
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It’s up to the Dems to change their ways or get some more of what they got in November, KWatson.
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35. I think she meant change your ways about lying and slandering (like you just did to NJL) the opposition rather than debating them in a civil manner.
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When did I say shoot Dems. I didn’t.
I can’t make you stop posting your ignorance. Loughner is CRAZY. He’s a schizophrenic. This has nothing to do with politics. So, wake up and smell the coffee and start dealing with reality. (And it would serve the Dems well to do the same.) Nobody wants what you’re selling. Nobody wants what the Dems are selling. That’s why they were kicked out of the House.
But… there’s always Obama — if they bring a knife, we’ll bring a gun. The hypocrisy of the leftist posts here makes me physically ill.
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* The images and rhetoric of violence and hate pervade Hollywood movies beyond all proportions of reason.
* Some video games are even worse.
* Pro wrestling shows are traditionally about 30% actual fake wrestling and 70% rhetoric of hate, violence and revenge. And some of them have tatoos with human scull images too.
In the interest of preventing the next senseless mass murder, should we ban it all?
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But I thought all that Hollywood stuff doesn’t cause violence? How come that does’t cause violence but conservative talk radio causes violence?
Well, I have to wash my hair now.
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Let’s recap
I said, “Debra, this isn’t about blaming Palin or Beck for the assassination attempt. It’s about trying to prevent the next one.”
NJL replied, “The best way to prevent the “next one” would be for Dems in Congress to wake up and smell the coffee and observe the Constitution.”
I think it’s clear what NJL meant. The best way to prevent the next assassination attempt would be for Dems in Congress to wake up and smell the coffee and observe the Constitution.”
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Change, or be assassinated
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Change or become unemployed. That’s what really has Dems worried. If they continue to spend their time deflecting and fingerpointing while their Fearless Leader presides over some of the worst unemployment in 40 years, there’s every reason to suppose that the electorate will dispense with their services, and dump them into the job market in 2012—- where they will have to compete with people who actually know how to work for a living. It’s just pathetic that they chose to latch onto a national tragedy to try to deflect attention away from their current failures.
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Just curious what people here think of Palin’s comment of “blood libel” to describe the current discussion around her comments. “Blood libel” has a very specific meaning and relates to centuries of anti-semitism and pogroms. Was it appropriate?
http://thinkprogress.org/2011/01/12/palin-blood-libel
I know many of you think Bill Maher is over the top but he amuses me — listen to his comments starting at the 5:30 mark on this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXh156ZafPk
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[T]he assassination of a member of Congress in Tuscon has a statistical coincidence with the Palin-variable greater than random effect (it’s actually much greater).
How?
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I read an article about “blood libel” and only then did I remember the history of it. It’s not a common phrase. I thought she was using it because the Left was trying to pour the blood of the dead on her hands.
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That was my understanding as well.
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I take the liberty here of copying and posting a previous post by DONNA J, simply because it brings to the table the insights of a friend of the killer’s who knew him:
________________
And this today, from one of the suspect’s friends:
“He did not watch TV. He disliked the news. He didn’t listen to political radio. He didn’t take sides. He wasn’t on the left. He wasn’t on the right.”
http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/jared-loughners-friend-says-suspect-did-not-watch-tv-disliked-the-news_b48040
____________
The above was copied from a post by DONNA J.
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Don’t put your pathetic interpretations on my words, KWatson. If you have any reasoning capability at all, you would have known what the quotation marks meant that I used. But reality isn’t your strong point any more than it is Loughner’s.
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#30
that’s not a fund raising letter. He thanks people for their past support but doesn’t ask for money.
However the Tea Party is fund raising off the Giffords shooting;
http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/weigel/archive/2011/01/11/tea-party-express-calls-jared-lee-loughner-liberal-fundraises-off-of-media-slander.aspx
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The political strategy applied by those who want to use this horrific tragedy to self-righteously muzzle rhetoric on the right or cast indirect blame at their own political opponents, is to keep the right intimidated and on the defense.
Just so you know.
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47,48
I know what she was trying to say when she used the term but do you think it was an appropriate choice of words and does the current climate of negative opinion and accusations she faces comparable to the blood libel claims of medieval Europe and the attacks on Jews?
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KEN said it well at #16 – “Curious animal, this American right, that insists on defending itself when attacked.”
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Reread, HRW. He’s asking for money.
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Sarah Palin’s use of the phrase “blood libel” was spot on and fully appropriate. Palin spoke of the journalists and pundits who “manufacture a blood libel” hypocritically, and she correctly called it “reprehensible.” That’s what it is–exactly. And those who are doing this malicious manufacturing will do their utmost to punish Palin for calling them out correctly.
Interestingly, not all liberals are buying into the use of this tragedy to gain political points against their opponents. Kudos to the decent liberals.
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Yeah, KWatson, right.
In your World of Glibly Manufacturing Stupid and Idiotic Slander, the average Tea-Partier (like me) lists the Communist Manifesto as one of their fave-rave reads, hates religion, is known to their friends and associates as a weirdo-Leftist, and shoots pro-second amendment politicians, and by-standers and children.
Unlike Left-wing politicians who ARE ON RECORD in wishing that Palin (and her family) were killed in a plane crash, and whose hatred of the Constitution is exceeded only by their zeal for taking a hatchet to the associated Bill of Rights.
What pieces of work you and your fellow left-wing slanderers are.
If you are going to lie, at least try to lie competently. It makes it a bit more interesting, you know.
Sorry you apparently hate the Constitution so much. Sorry you apparently hate the Republic so much. Sorry you definitely hate free speech so much – for those you disagree with – but then are so slavishly supportive of abusive and violent language by your Lords and Masters in the LeftWing Machine.
But that is all old news. The new news is that I am sorry you and others of your ilk are now trying to debase the newly dead victims of this tragedy by attempting to deflect the deserved blame from yourself and those like you.
Because the Leftwing has distorted the culture such that it has largely become a culture of death, where human life has no meaning or value – the most obvious metric being 1 million butchered children a year in this country, and the several hundred thousands of gallons of gore, blood, and tissue that remain after those lives are snuffed out – thanks to you and yours.
You train a generation that life has no meaning and that good and evil are relative and defined by the culture – what else exactly do you expect?
But finally the Leftwing has apparently used the big lie one time to many, in order to slander and distort and attack those who oppose their agenda and who oppose the culture of death that the Left facilitates and champions.
Of course, an unfortunate peripheral result is nevertheless that the more amoral and mentally deranged foot-soldiers of the Left (like this murderer) no longer have a clue about Truth, spelled with a capital T. Truth with a capital T indicates an Absolute, a concept apparently beyond your comprehension, and certainly beyond the comprehension of this particular murderer.
This guy (and others like him) are the logical and inevitable fruits of the decayed and perverted aspects of the culture; aspects/characteristics deliberately nurtured and developed by the Left over many decades.
The average American has figured you and yours out, KWatson.
The average American just ain’t buying the same old trash talk, and continuous non-stop slander and lies anymore.
Get used to it.
Your salad days of being able to lie and slander without being answered are over.
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That is exactly so, Joel Mark.
The part that they don’t understand is that they make the case for the Tea Party every time they try to silence it.
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You can google something like tweets wanting Palin dead and come up with some rather vulgar stuff.
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The English language is versatile. It is not bound to technically isolated singular meanings that are associated with certain phrases used in certain ways in the history of its usage. We use the English language to communicate. Also, context and usage are crucial factors in listening and interpreting people’s speech.
Clearly, in context, Palin used the phrase “blood libel” because (as NJLawyer also surmised) “the Left was trying to pour the blood of the dead on her hands.”
We all knew that immediately.
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I think she meant the term as a metaphor. Not an analogy. What’s a better metaphor for using a lie as a basis for destroying people who don’t agree with you?
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#51 that’s not a fund raising letter. He thanks people for their past support but doesn’t ask for money.
Of course it is. What else would it be? He thanks his supporters for past, continuing and future donations. And then proceeds in no uncertain terms to say why he thinks their future support is so essential. And it’s not a mere thank you letter because there is no indicator that the letter is going out to only financial supporters. It’s a general letter emphasizing the need for funds to combat big bad Republicans.
#53
And there’s nothing wrong with the use of the term ‘blood libel’. This is another manufactured tempest attempting to scratch and pick at a person the left just loves to hate. What’s new.
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We know for certain that several people are going to be killed by drunk drivers in the next few days. Those people are just as valuable, just as loved, and just as innocent as the people recently killed in Tucson. And here we are arguing about political rhetoric that has been vitriolic for all of human history. I’m not convinced we (our nation) are as concerned about people being killed as we are about our soapboxes.
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NJL, I’m not sure I would be so brazen as to try and walk-back something I so clearly stated. Please do explain how exactly the presence of quotation marks changes the meaning of what you said. I can’t wait for your mealy-mouthed response.
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“And there’s nothing wrong with the use of the term ‘blood libel’. This is another manufactured tempest attempting to scratch and pick at a person the left just loves to hate. What’s new.”
Debra, perhaps you should go to all the websites of the Jewish organizations who have asked for an apology and explain to them exactly why they shouldn’t be offended, because apparently you know better than they do.
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Neil,
You’re right about the political rhetoric. But just because water has always flowed downhill doesn’t mean we don’t need to raise a hue and cry when the dam breaks. My concern is more for the living than the dead. I can do nothing for them now.
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Logical argument rarely changes an opponent’s worldview. (btw all sides believe their views are most logical.) Heated logical argument usually cements people in their positions. The thing most effective at persuading others to change worldview is caring example. And as Christians we believe that is just what the Indwelling Holy Spirit is especially good at helping us be, when we let Him.
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Jews are not going to like this at all, nevertheless, they don’t support Sarah anyway, and circumstances leave Sarah with no choice. She has to surgically disjoin the marriage, made in popular culture and Google, between her and an apparent anti-semite who shot Sarah’s most celebrated target, Gabrielle Giffords, who is a Jew.
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KWatson and Scroop,
Jews on both sides of the isle are talking to each other; they don’t need to hear from me.
http://jewsforsarah.com/
http://biggovernment.com/publius/2011/01/12/exclusive-alan-dershowitz-defends-sarah-palins-use-of-term-blood-libel/
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NJL
Here’s Sander’s entire letter
http://www.weeklystandard.com/sites/all/files/docs/Bernie.pdf
– the part used by the Weekly Standard is the introductory paragraph thanking people for financial support now and in the future. The rest of his rather long letter goes on to describe the right wing rhetoric and its agenda of attacking social programs. Money is never mentioned again. In comparison, the Tea Party letter directly asks for more and gives them a link to click in order to donate. The Tea Party letter is very short and is entirely about the Gifford’s shooting. Comparing the two letters, the Tea Party definitely is more upfront about donations and directly relates it to the Giffords shooting.
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President Obama did a fine job. I think the Memorial Service will take us closer toward healing and curtail the carping for political point-scoring that we have seen.
My respect for Barack Obama as a person rose as did my respect for Sarah Palin for the dignity and courage in her video statement.
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The tribute to Dorwin Stoddard was moving. He threw himself on his wife to save her. As someone has already pointed out (I think it was DEBRA), that paints an incredible analogous picture of Christ and His Bride, the church.
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Drill and others seem to think his reading the Communist Manifesto is somewhat significant but fail to mention his fondness for Ayn Rand.
My right wing roommate had a poster of Che Guevara — he thought it was ironic that the great revolutionary’s image was turned into a commodity and sold and had to join in. If he went postal would posters here assume he was a leftist? Does the fact I have books by Hobbes and Machiavelli make me authoritarian? or books by Locke and Mill make me a classical liberal?? or Allan Bloom make a conservative academic??
The answer of course is no. His videos are the best clues we have to his political leanings and as I said before his anti-government and pro gold leanings point a libertarian mind set but he couldn’t make a coherent case for it. His choice of targets is also significant — I’m sure its easier to find a Republican in Arizona than a Democrat.
And Drill as for the hatchet job on the Bill of Rights — the Patriot Act did that a long time ago.
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I’m curious why Boehner as the new speaker of the house declined a free ride to Arizona with Obama and instead went to a fund raising cocktail party.
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Lord, please enable this recovering congresswoman Giffords to regain all the function needed to enjoy her life as a wife, a friend to many and as a respresentative for the people who elected her.
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HRW, As an atheist, I would not be surpirsed if this killer liked Ayn Rand. So what?
At least Ayn Rand was not a vicious murderer of innocents like Che Guevara.
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HRW, did you not even attempt to understand those who brought up the fact that this killer liked the Communist Manifesto? Did you not even try? It was a way of pointing out how absurd it is to play the game (in the midst of a huge tragedy) of digging up books and alleged terterary influences for carping purposes. It was to show that the politics of this murderer was mixed beyond coherence. For some to make ties to Sarah Palin and forget to mention that he liked the Communist Manifesto? is clearly hypocritical and opportunist.
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#74 – At long last, HRW, have you no shame, Sir? Have you no shame.
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You all know full well that if there were a sizable group within the Democratic Party that built its whole message on the possible coming need for a new armed revolution, you would all be screaming full voice about treason and demanding criminal charges.
And rightly so, too. But it’s on your own side, and so you rush to defend and minimize it.
How about showing you have a spine and some actual principles that go beyond expediency and join me in condemning any talk of overthrow?
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#79, your apparent need to draw up sides and use this tragedy to polarize us is pitiful. Pitiful.
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I heard only bits and pieces of the speech tonight, but I was glad that the president suggested we not simplistically assign blame for this to our political opponents.
I still say the suspect belongs to no one, left or right. He was maladjusted, filled with rage and apparently felt personally slighted for some reason known only to himself by the congresswoman. What else we learn about him in the future may shed more light on why he did what he did. But frankly, he fits the pattern to a T of all those assassins or would-be assassins who have gone before him.
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Oh, and I loved the intern, very inspiring to hear him.
Palin’s address earlier today also was good, I thought (I only saw it late tonight, after hearing nothing but blistering criticism of it earlier in the day).
Perhaps it would have been better had she waited another couple days, however. But her comments were measured and reasonable, I thought. And since her name has been front-and-center in some of the more heated debates, I can understand why she felt the need to speak about it.
The ‘blood libel’ debate was overblown, maybe not a good phrase to use, I don’t know. But you knew something would set her many enemies off. If it wasn’t that, it would have been something else. Palin is simply red meat to the left, anything she says will inevitably be seized upon and discussed with shock and outrage.
Maybe today will be something of a watershed, though, and now we can all move on.
Good news about Giffords today, too! Praying that she will ultimately make a good, long-term recovery.
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I think that “blood libel” is a fitting term for people saying that a certain group are intent on killing people. No, nobody is saying that the Tea Party is canibalizing children, but they are saying that they want to kill people.
It’s downright scary. The next thing you know, people who are part of the Tea Party will be rounded up and put into detention centers (concentration camps?). After all, what else would you do with people whom you think are ready to go around shooting their political opponents?
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Palin is red meat? There is a comedian who is after her little teen-aged daughter!
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What the Leftists/Democrats are doing is systematically undermining the Constitution. They should be afraid of voters who know better.
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Money is mentioned, HRW. He asks for money. And that’s the point.
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And KWatson, you won’t be getting a mealy-mouthed response. You don’t deserve ANY response.
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This is an unbelievable bonfire, started most likely just after the shooting by the sheriff’s immediate and unwarranted, non-vague attribution of blame on heated political rhetoric. From all I’ve heard and read, the Left stoked and fed the fire, placing conservatives in an awkward defense. I wonder if it would have been better to ignore reference to the “climate of hate” charges.
The Left assures us that they are not charging the right directly, while making the correlation that Saturday’s event would not have occurred absent Tea Party dissent. It’s like charging the left with emboldening Al Qaeda and extending the war because of their anti-war, “Bush Lied” rants.
Politically, I wish the discussion explored how privacy law impairs institutional intervention and gun permit applications are vetted and approved.
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“You all know full well that if there were a sizable group within the Democratic Party that built its whole message on the possible coming need for a new armed revolution,”
There is no sizable group whose whole message is built on the possible coming need for a new armed revolution. This a myth created by left wing bloggers and the MSM by picking through hundreds of Tea Party signs and quotes by anyone with an R by their name, finding a few that vaguely back up their accusations and presenting them as the majority.
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Kyle A: No, nobody is saying that the Tea Party is canibalizing children, but they are saying that they want to kill people.
Gee, I wonder whatever gave anyone THAT idea?
“If Brown can’t do it, a Browning can.”
“The Tree of Liberty must be watered from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
It’s downright scary. The next thing you know, people who are part of the Tea Party will be rounded up and put into detention centers (concentration camps?). After all, what else would you do with people whom you think are ready to go around shooting their political opponents?
In your case, we would suggest they seek treatment for their paranoia.
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KBells: This a myth created by left wing bloggers and the MSM by picking through hundreds of Tea Party signs and quotes by anyone with an R by their name, finding a few that vaguely back up their accusations and presenting them as the majority.
If it were just some signwavers at rallies and they were small in number, you would have an argument. But it’s not. The words come from candidates and officeholders as well, and most importantly, no one else in the party bats an eye.
If the people talking about revolution were considered anathema and roundly criticized from within the party, I would accept that they were a fringe. But the party leadership says nothing, which amounts to tacit approval.
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Or in Palin’s case, vocal approval. She’s not some anonymous person at a rally, she’s become a major figure in the Republican party (God knows why, but she has.) For her to embrace this rhetoric and even dabble in it herself really belies your claim that it’s just a fringe.
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70. Good grief, the first thing he does is give a web address where people can contribute.
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Revolutionaries have become so institutionalized in the Democrat party that they don’t even see them any more…It’ll be interesting to see what revolutionary murderer they sanitize for the Christmas tree next year, now that Mao has become so acceptable.
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91. If I ask you to prove this you will send me to a website where there is a collection of those signs and quotes.
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I’ve never been Palin’s biggest fan, but the more I see her response to the rabid attacks, the more I have to admire her guts and tenacity and cool head under fire. They were just chewing her apart last night on MSNBC. That woman takes a mauling and keeps on going. The Spirit must be strong in her. Our nation is so blessed to have someone like that standing her ground for the integrity of the whole country.
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Debra: Revolutionaries have become so institutionalized in the Democrat party that they don’t even see them any more…It’ll be interesting to see what revolutionary murderer they sanitize for the Christmas tree next year, now that Mao has become so acceptable.
Is there a movement within the Democratic Party demanding we adopt Maoism? I haven’t noticed it, and the fact that some appointee might have read a book about Maoism 30 years ago in college is not really the same.
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95: All you have to do is prove me wrong is find one statement from a leading Republican figure denouncing the rhetoric. (One made before the Tucson shooting.)
My contention here is a negative, and one can’t prove a negative. But a negative can be easily disproved — just find an example of what I’m saying doesn’t exist.
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98. So you make a false accusation and to prove you wrong I have find someone on my side admitting to the false accusation. I will never understand this weird liberal logic.
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KBells: Come on, it’s not complicated.
My belief is that the Republican party quietly supports the revolutionary rhetoric by saying nothing against it.
Find a statement by a major party figure speaking against it, and you will prove me wrong.
I don’t know what you mean by “someone on my side admitting to the false accusation” … where did that come from?
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Why should they speak against something that doesn’t exist outside of Keith Olberman mind?
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To clarify further: Your argument is that the Tea Party elements who rhetorically talk about armed revolt are a fringe (a fringe that somehow includes the most recent VP candidate.)
If you’re correct, then the party’s leadership should be on record repudiating such talk (because if they are fringe, they are certainly not a small or invisible one.)
So, show me.
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They do exist. Examples are not hard to find, and for all you insist that the signs and slogans are just a small minority, they’re there and they’re visible. (I think you’re wrong about that, but even if you’re right that it’s a minority, it’s a significant minority.)
And it’s rhetoric that comes from the movement’s leaders and candidates, not just a few anonymous people in the crowd. Deny it, but it’s true.
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Mao is hung on a Christmas tree at the White House for national celebration, and spoken of favorably by administration appointees. Reasonable people can plainly see that that Mao’s image is being actively rehabilitated by Democrats in the highest positions of power.
The fact that mainstream Democrats don’t see this as a problem is itself a major problem. But it’s entirely predictable. They officially support some of the most unclean and depraved acts and ideas that come along. The scripture teaches that when people rebel against God to such an extent, He gives them over to a reprobate spirit, or unfit mind and understanding (Rom1:28), and their blindness will be perpetual unless the grace of God is activated on their behalf. And who knows when that may be, or who or what God will use to perform that task. That’s why we need to speak the truth in love.
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It’s not even a fringe. This whole thing consist of a few people at rallies (who may or may not have been plants) and some R candidates who lost. Palin has said nothing that could be interpreted by a reasonable person as calling for armed revolt.
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103. I could go to a anti-war rally or any liberal rally and find some nut burger signs. People have found some serious nut burger signs at these rallies, yet no one has been called upon in the Democrat party to speak against them.
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All you have to do is google “tweets kill Sarah Palin” and you can find the nutburger without leaving the comfort of your recliner. I, too, have never heard anyone in the Dem party speak against them, and now would be the time.
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If someone hits another person on the head with a baseball bat, he is the one responsible. Even if someone told him to do it; even if he was provoked by the other person; even if he is having a bad day; even if he is (you name the mental condition), etc.
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Sadly, I think the sheriff did set the stage early-on for much of the rancor that has followed in the discussion of the shootings (not that someone else on the left would not have done it anyway, but he mounted his soapbox and by spouting what was just his own partisan opinion, gave it some sort of “official” credence). He lit the match in what was already a political tinder box that has been building for 10 years now.
Let’s hope the climate cools off in the next few days and the conversation can become a bit more fact-based, logical and helpful to everyone. The reaction to this has just been a sorry display of political exploitation and finger-pointing run amok.
So when is that sheriff up for reelection?
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Debra: Mao is hung on a Christmas tree at the White House for national celebration, and spoken of favorably by administration appointees. Reasonable people can plainly see that that Mao’s image is being actively rehabilitated by Democrats in the highest positions of power.
A quick bit of Googling shows me that both of these things are true, but neither of them mean anything. The tree was decorated by community groups — dozens or hundreds of people — who donated ornaments which were not pre-screened by the White House. Probably a bad idea, the lack of pre-approval, but it no way shows Obama endorsement of Mao.
And the White House official who quote Mao in a commencement speech did so ironically, not approvingly. Leave it to the conservatives to not understand irony.
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110. Yet you expect Tea Party officials to screen every person who walks off the street into one of their rallies.
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Leave it to the Liberals to not understand a metaphor.
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The choice of the words “Tea Party” is one, too. No one is about to dump tea in the bay.
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To the extent that a mind is darkened, it cannot understand even the plainest of things. One could bring up Van Jones, Bill Ayers and other White House approved revolutionaries, communist Mao sympathizers, and thugs. But what would be the point. Even then, they would not see. Still, that doesn’t mean we should stop speaking truth when we have the opportunity, for who knows when grace will be activated towards another, or withdrawn entirely. Our days really are in God’s hands.
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Debra wrote; “Still, that doesn’t mean we should stop speaking truth when we have the opportunity, for who knows when grace will be activated towards another, or withdrawn entirely.”
Well said.
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The damage has been done and their master has called them off.
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Sarah Palin will never be arrested for incitement to murder.
Only in the court of public opinion is she in jeopardy of indictment for solicitation of assassination for political advantage.
The jury is pop culture. Conviction will take the form of a popular image of Sarah pulling crosshairs out of her head while blood drips from a corner of her mouth.
Don’t blame me. The delicious turn of phrase, “blood libel,” cames straight out of her mouth along with other revelations of a guilty conscience.
Like claiming that 2 + 2 = 0
Sarah Palin asserts that the shootings in Tuscon were the “random acts of a criminal.”
How does she know that? Making groundless self-serving statements is the sign of a guilty mind.
Mathematially speaking, the shootings were statistically dependent on Sarah’s crosshairs. The correlation between the acts and the map is more than random.
There are 435 congressional districts, yet the shooting occurred in one of only 17 districts whose incumbent Sarah targeted for defeat during the election. The shooting occurred in one of just two districts whose incumbent survived in office after the election.
When Rep Gabrielle Giffords warned that there could be “consequences” from Palin’s crosshairs, Giffords was one of 17 representatives who could suffer those consequences. After the election, there were only two left who could suffer those consequences.
A random assassination could have occurred in 435 districts. An assassination dependent on palin’s crosshairs could only occur in one of two district.
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117. Let’s not let facts and logic get in the way of your personal opinion, okay.
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I won’t name the last little Indian in Sarah’s crosshairs, because I’m sure that law enforcement has more than enough trouble protecting him/her from a person who this moment might be buying a 30-bullet automatic in obedience to the terrible summons of a psychotic crisis and the voice in his head, “lock and reload, lock and reload.”
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One could bring up Van Jones, Bill Ayers and other White House approved revolutionaries, communist Mao sympathizers, and thugs. But what would be the point. Even then, they would not see.
One could. And one would find nothing in any of that that approaches “If Brown can’t do it, a Browning can.”
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Communism really and truly is not seen by leftist Democrats as evil or UN-American…or apparently, undesirable.
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Statistically speaking, assuming he is an average human being (always problematic for a leftist), Scroop Moth has approximately 100 billion neurons in his brain.
Mathematically speaking, how many of these 100 billion neurons are available for accurately performing statistical analysis?
All right. Let’s do the numbers.
Now 95 billion neurons are moth-balled, or obsolete, or have entirely left, and declared themselves unaffiliated and unincorporated, and hence are out of the picture, so to speak.
This leaves 5 billion neurons.
Okay.
4.9 billion of these neurons are devoted to remembering important (but non-statistical) facts like when Saturday morning cartoons play, where the Captain Crunch is on the shelf, how much soda pop is left in the cabinet, the email addresses of fellow ACORN workers (not too many of them have email – most are in prison), the particular day of the month that the government check arrives in the mailbox; important – but non-mathematical – stuff like that.
That leaves 100 million neurons.
Now 99 million of these 100 million neurons are actively assigned tasks involving respiration (breathing in and out, fluttering gill flaps, whatever it takes), photosynthesis, perspiration (what happens when the government check does not arrive), and digestion (not exactly a favorite job for the neurons – they usually take turns).
That leaves 1 million neurons.
999,000 of these 1 million neurons are too paranoid to be of much use; we will term them essentially ‘uncooperative’ and exceedingly unreliable (in fact somewhat dangerous), especially when stressed, which they tend to be most of the time.
That would leave 1000 neurons.
Unfortunately, 997 of these 1000 neurons have ignition problems; they are game so they do fire, but the electric discharges just short and sputter, like so many cheap fireworks sputtering and fizzling miserably in the night, on some rainy, dreary 4th of July.
Okay that leaves just 3 neurons out of the original 100 billion actually available for statistical analysis.
However, 2 of these 3 neurons don’t really like Math. They just sort of slid through in their math classes in school; they did okay on homework by getting all the answers from teacher solution keys they downloaded off the internet, but never really learned the material.
That leaves one neuron, the last neuron.
A brilliant mathematical neuron, though, actually. A real whiz, sort of a genius in the neuron world.
And it is on the tiny (but capable!) shoulders of this single stalwart neuron, this veritable Albert Einstein among neurons, that the responsibility rests for providing us the usual meaningful, reliable, accurate, (and important!) statistical analysis we can always count on from Scroop Moth.
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120. I was told by Kwatson that we could not use a left wing blog as a benchmark to judge a former vice-presidential candidate yet you are using a nut with a sign as a benchmark for members of the presidents staff.
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Well KBells, it’s like this. You said: One could bring up Van Jones, Bill Ayers and other White House approved revolutionaries, communist Mao sympathizers, and thugs.
Well, Bill Ayers is not on the White House staff and despite the right’s best efforts to manufacture a scandal out of a brief connection between him and Obama 20 years ago, not many people bought it. So he’s irrelevant.
There are no “communist Mao sympathizers” in the White House. Anita Dunn, the one who quoted Mao in a speech, was only there for six months in 2009, and she never endorsed Mao — just used a quote (which she got from the late Lee Atwater) to illustrate a point. So that one’s another manufactured scandal that most people were smart enough to see through.
And Van Jones also was in the WH for six or seven months in 2009, finally resigning after a right-wing smear campaign that greatly exaggerated a couple of things from his past proved to be too disruptive to the work he was trying to do.
So, it’s not really an impressive case you have there.
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Conan – If your statements were true, you would be right that it’s not an impressive case.
Washington Post – “Both Obama and Ayers were members of the board of an anti-poverty group, the Woods Fund of Chicago, between 1999 and 2002. In addition, Ayers contributed $200 to Obama’s re-election fund to the Illinois State Senate in April 2001.”
2002 was only 6 years before the election. 2002 was AFTER Bill Ayers told the New York Times (in 2001), “I don’t regret setting bombs…I feel we didn’t do enough.”
Anita Dunn was quoted (easy to find the video) as saying that Mao Tse Tung (murderer of millions of his own people) was one of her favorite “political philosophers”. That’s far beyond, “just used a quote (which she got from the late Lee Atwater) to illustrate a point.”
Van Jones – From the Washington Post at the time of his resignation, “‘The president does not endorse Jones’s past statements and actions, but he thanks him for his service,’ (Robert) Gibbs said. A White House official, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss a personnel matter, said Jones’s past was not studied as intensively as other advisers because of his relatively low rank.”
So it’s not accurate to blame the “right wing” for “smearing” Van Jones. In fact, it sounds like the Obama Administration was appreciative that his disqualifying past was exposed!
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I misremembered the timing, but the fact that they served on the board of a non-profit together is meaningless. They didn’t choose it, the people who put the board together picked them (and Ayers had long left his radical days behind and become a respected figure in education by that time.) There were 8 or 10 other people, various Chicago civic leaders, on the same board — are they all radicals too?
Obama can’t control who gives his campaign $200 dollars (two HUNDRED dollars, wow!).
Dunn also named Mother Teresa as a favorite political philosopher. Then she said she was joking about both of them — do you think Mother Teresa is a political philosopher, or is it more likely she was joking?
This is all just made-up outrage. Unless you can point to actual radical, revolutionary policies that these nefarious characters are putting into place, maybe it’s time to admit that a person’s past activities do not necessarily bear on his present positions.
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The principles that the left uses for this incident are precisely the opposite that they regularly argue when the discussion other subjects. This is a double-standard which is obvious to everyone except those on the left.
1. After Fort Hood, the left said not to jump to any conclusions. We are routinely told that Muslims have no discernible ideology but it is a result of opinion and personal interpretation. Yet here a lone gunman with no discernible ideology implicates half the country. Please explain what your principle is? Does ideology matter or not?
2. We are being told to tone down the rhetoric and speak more civilly. Where was the left when Pelosi called dissent at a town meeting unamerican? Or when Napolitano called actual terrorism a man-caused disaster, but returning veterans from the war potential domestic terrorists.
Or how about the President routinely ridiculing half of the electorate telling them to shut up and get in the back of the bus. He called them enemies. The right attacks ideas; the left attacks people. Is the left saying that they should stop doing that?
Can anyone on the left explain how you can have two sets of principles depending on who you are talking about?
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Van Jones named one of his organizations after an open Socialist who worked on behalf of an open Communist. Van Jones also collaborated with STORM which also studied and embraced Maoist teaching. And Van Jones at one time admitted to being a black nationalist and communist. The labels have evolved, but I don’t thinkthat he has never denounced communism or Mao’s ideas to any believable degree. He just saw environmentalism as a better vehicle. And that works for Obama.
I don’t think the President would consent to appoint the people he did (people like Dunn and Van Jones) unless he was in sync with their core political philosophy. He himself has grown up sympathetic to tyranny in various forms including communism and far-left socialist ideas from his own parents, and Islam.
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“Obama can’t control who gives his campaign $200 dollars (two HUNDRED dollars, wow!).”
Yet, y’all expect Palin to control who shows up with a sign at a rally of thousands.
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We have already seen hard evidence that the left has carried signage and made incendiary remarks at conservative rallies for the purpose of discrediting the Tea Party groups.
Even so, every group has outliers who will not reflect the values that fall within the mainstream. I used to think that socialism was supported by a very small, odd-ball group on the left fringe. I have been shocked to find the Democrat party itself completely infected with open socialism and communism. And the rolling of eyes and shoulder-shrugging by people who you would think ought to know better at the mention of these Maoist groupies is yet another serious indicator of the disease in the party.
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Conan – I stand by my statements.
As I said previously, “2002 was only 6 years before the election. 2002 was AFTER Bill Ayers told the New York Times (in 2001), “I don’t regret setting bombs…I feel we didn’t do enough.”
Anita Dunn played the, “Just kidding” card. That, of course, works for those who are predisposed to believe her. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt and allow them “human errors”. Her “explanation” didn’t trigger that reaction in me this time.
You wrote, “maybe it’s time to admit that a person’s past activities do not necessarily bear on his present positions.”
In the case of Van Jones, your suggestion is better directed to Robert Gibbs and the White House. They are the ones who were glad to see him go after his past became public knowledge.
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Debra: I used to think that socialism was supported by a very small, odd-ball group on the left fringe. I have been shocked to find the Democrat party itself completely infected with open socialism and communism. And the rolling of eyes and shoulder-shrugging by people who you would think ought to know better at the mention of these Maoist groupies is yet another serious indicator of the disease in the party.
The problem is that you want to convict them based on things from the past that don’t necessarily bear on the present. Yes, short-term White House appointee Van Jones had connections to the groups you mentioned, but what in his White House work reflected any wish to impose socialism or communism on America?
He was not involved with them by the time he joined the White House and had not been for many years. How do you know he still felt that way?
I do agree — I really do — that some of Obama’s past associations and even some WH appointments are disturbing. In all honesty, if I had 2008 to do over again, I’d vote for Clinton. But even with that, I just don’t see any evidence beyond vague insinuation that the Democratic party is trying to do anything sinister here.
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As I said previously, “2002 was only 6 years before the election. 2002 was AFTER Bill Ayers told the New York Times (in 2001), “I don’t regret setting bombs…I feel we didn’t do enough.”
And as I said, Obama and Ayers were not close friends who deliberately joined the board of the Woods Foundation together. The Foundation picked them along with many others — it was coincidental.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/02/obamas_weatherman_connection.html
Ayers is now, and was during the time he and Obama were both on the board, a distinguished professor of education at the University of Illinois-Chicago. You’re trying to get some mileage out his telling the NYT that he didn’t regret the Weatherman activities, but you ignore the fact that he hadn’t done anything like that in 40 years and meanwhile had earned a position of stature, which is the context in which Obama knew him.
If he had told the NYT that he regretted his past deeply, the right would just insist it wasn’t sincere. No matter what Ayers said about his past, Obama’s opponents would portray it in the darkest light possible in an attempt to hurt his electoral chances.
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“But even with that, I just don’t see any evidence beyond vague insinuation that the Democratic party is trying to do anything sinister here.”
And yet in post 120 you attempt to condemn the entire tea party movement with one guy at a rally with a sign.
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120. “And one would find nothing in any of that that approaches “If Brown can’t do it, a Browning can.”
How about “We support our troops when they shoot their officers”?
http://rightwingnews.com/2010/01/the-anti-war-rallies-of-the-bush-years-in-20-pics/
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“If he had told the NYT that he regretted his past deeply, the right would just insist it wasn’t sincere.”
Well, we will never know, because he chose the exact opposite response. I can assure you that if he had expressed deep regret, it would have reversed my personal impression of Ayers. Bill Ayers had many choices in response to that question by the NY Times interviewer. Negative, neutral, or positive. He chose strongly positive.
President Obama should have resigned from that board during the week after the interview was published. We have very few bits of information about the President’s years in Chicago. This one doesn’t highlight him as a man of conscience or a renouncer of violent civil disobedience. Please don’t postulate that the President probably didn’t know about the interview statement. This was in the New York Times; not the Des Plaines Weekly Bulletin.
And yes, there is a lot of “mileage” in someone who the intellectual elite of Chicago has designated a “distinguished professor” continuing 40 years later to advocate violent acts in support of his cause.
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This is a great time to revisit one of the most informative and eye-opening sites on the web:
http://zombietime.com/
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Xion: “Can anyone on the left explain how you can have two sets of principles depending on who you are talking about?”
Gosh, darn, I’m on the right…
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Mona Charen’s recent op-ed is a MUST READ!!! It is related to mentral illness in America and how we often dismiss it irresponsibly:
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/charen011411.php3
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JM: Thanks for the link. My sister had schizophrenia, and we couldn’t find help for her (and she didn’t think that she needed help). She died on the streets less than two years ago.
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Thanks to Joel Mark for the Mona Charen link. This needs to be on the front page of newspapers! “World” can take the lead on this. But there must be safeguards so that the American Psychiatric Association can’t declare belief in God a mental illness!
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I also want to thank you for posting this. I wasn’t even aware of how bad some of the comedians, web sites, etc., were against Republicans. It still amazes me when I encounter hate coming from “liberals,” while telling “conservatives” not to hate (this is very common on the internet)! I have a hard time believing that they don’t know what they’re doing . . .
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And if you show them, literally show them, they dismiss it.
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Death by qualification
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