In with the Constitution, out with Obamacare
Today congressional Republicans have scheduled a vote on H.R. 2, the repeal of Obamacare. There is no sign of any hope it will go any further than that, but it will put every member of Congress on record as we head to the next election.
Barney Frank might call this an “air kiss” to the Tea Party. Frank would be right, and the Tea Party certainly deserves a kiss for turning our attention to these two related issues for the new legislative season: the Constitution and well-meaning-but-you-should-know-better government overreach that ignores constitutional boundaries.
Our political system is one of “limited government,” a wonderful modern invention. Because government power is not only useful but also dangerous to those under its care, we have found it wise to circumscribe that power by three factors: the rule of law, enumerated powers, and individual rights.
Those who govern us do so only under law, ultimately a fundamental law that we call the Constitution. Those who make the law must themselves submit to the laws they make.
But consider the 2010 Democratic healthcare law. The fact that this law is baldly unconstitutional gave Democratic lawmakers no pause whatsoever. The reason? Democrats think of the Constitution as a “living document,” and so it doesn’t matter what it actually says. The challenge for those living under it is not to conform their legislative wishes to the Constitution but—by clever rhetoric and legal reasoning—to conform the Constitution to the legislative wishes of the day. That way, we keep that old document in step with current values. We keep it “alive.” But this approach is the opposite of the rule of law and of limited government. The very purpose of the Constitution is to restrain the political passions and moral prejudices of the day until such time as we formally amend it by consent of the people.
Our government is limited also as to its ends. We established our government to accomplish specific tasks, and we have enumerated those tasks in the Constitution. Recognizing that our lawmakers have lost sight of this principle, the Republican-controlled House of Representatives has established a rule that any proposed bill must specify the constitutional justification for whatever exercise of power the bill requires.
But the Democratic Party leadership cannot seem to think of anything the federal government should not be doing. When asked where in the Constitution she found the authority to require people to buy health insurance, then-House Speaker Nancy Pelosi responded with incredulity: “Are you serious? Are you serious?” How often have we heard a politician on the left tell a heartrending personal story and then leap immediately to proposing a federal government solution? The unstated assumption is that every unhappiness is the government’s responsibility to remedy. The broader the government, the more egalitarian the solution. And so the federal government is always the instrument of choice.
This impulse may proceed from a kind-hearted sentiment, but not a noble sentiment because it does not respect people’s liberty. Even if President Obama and all his allies in this healthcare revolution were entirely public-spirited in their intentions, their reforms would establish a structure for a later, less high-minded generation of officials to lord it over a prostrate and helpless American people. Not good.
Every elected representative takes a solemn oath to defend the Constitution. Yet, judging by what they do, not by what they say, Democrats these days don’t seem to believe in any of these features of limited government. If the purpose of government is not simply to praise what is good among the people (1 Peter 2:14) but to provide for the people’s good itself, then to limit the government in any way is an act of hostility toward the people.
Apparently, the people don’t see it that way. That’s why this week, in response to unambiguous popular demand, the Republican majority in Congress, perhaps along with some keen-eared Democrats, will send a message to the upper house and the president about limited government and liberty.

















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back to top87 Comments to “In with the Constitution, out with Obamacare”
I received a “gift” at the beginning of this year, from this stupid healthcare “reform” in the form of high deductibles, and drastically jumping copays… and it appears that some of my pharmacy needs are being limited.
All because some services must now be “free”.
I gotta clue for you idiots in congress, and you leftists that supported this boondoggle. There’s no such thing as a free lunch.
And we’re gonna eat yours if you don’t get rid of this junk and your addiciton to Other People’s Money.
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People still won’t have to buy insurance, they’ll just have to pay money to the government if they don’t.
I suspect SCOTUS may declare that Congress erred in not calling it a tax, and may even overturn part of the law on those semantic grounds, but SCOTUS won’t find anything substantively wrong with mandate, unless it decides to rewrite history.
Many informed, reasonable, and admirable people think the health care act is constitutional, and the question will be narrowly argued.
The Constitutional authority for health care reform is in Article I. Sec. 8.
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes . . . and provide for the . . . general welfare of the United States . . .
To borrow money on the credit of the United States . . .
To regulate commerce . . .
–And
To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States . . .
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MAKE IT MAN – it’s not leftists who require hospitals to provide treatment to anyone who walks in the doors, regardless of ability to pay. Republicans do, and will continue to do so. As Rep. Weiner says, “Who do you think pays, the bill fairy?” Other people’s money pays.
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DCINNES’ explication of the Constitution makes a very stupid error. INNES falsely asserts, we [framers of the Constitution] have enumerated those tasks in the Constitution. Contrary to INNES, however, Article I assigns no tasks to Congress. It confers powers upon Congress and leaves up to Congress all decisions about whether Congress uses those powers, which powers it uses, and how it uses them, if at all. This is a profound distinction. The framers could have assigned Congress a permanent list of tasks, but it did not. Instead, the Constitution allows voters to make up new lists of tasks every two years, and select representatives accordingly.
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And this is where Scroopy wants you to believe the Framers wanted a government this size and wouldn’t be appalled by it. This is where he tells you that agencies having free rein to regulate you to death is in the Constitution.
(Ssshhh, don’t tell him he’s wrong.)
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“People still won’t have to buy insurance, they’ll just have to pay money to the government if they don’t.”
Which is no different than telling people they dont have to buy a Blu-Ray player, but if they dont theyll be taxed.
It is forced purchased of an unnecessary good, and it does not apply to general welfare. Penalizing someone for not purchasing an item like that is not a promotion of the general welfare. It only promotes the favored.
in re #3: There are plenty of charities, organizations, and other means by which hospitals are helped paid for. Most hospitals also work out payment plans with patients. So if other peoples money is already paying, why on earth would you need the government to do it?
That will only add more admin cost, and more over testing.
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Article I Sec. 8 places no limit whatsoever on how much Congress may tax and borrow, and no limit on what Congress may provide for the general welfare. The Constitution divides powers, but doesn’t limit the powers it assigns to the Branches, except with respect to individual rights.
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“Article I Sec. 8 places no limit whatsoever on how much Congress may tax and borrow, and no limit on what Congress may provide for the general welfare.”
Hmph. We place limits on what Congress may tax and borrow. If we don’t like it, we toss ‘em out.
Or did the meaning of “Tea Party” escape your notice?
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Our resident Leftist does not seem to know the Constitution.
As in the 10th Amendment.
Imagine that. He scorns people who care about the Constitution (i.e. Tea Partiers) but does not have the faintest clue about it himself.
Oh, scratch that. He probably understands it quite well.
He just wants to dispense to it and get right to the real program – enslaving the people to the all-powerful Federal State.
26 States not yet completely co-opted by the various toads of the Left are seeking to overturn this Stalinist nightmare (Obamacare) on extremely solid Constitutional grounds.
Fortunately, the Leftists are out-numbered by people who still appreciate the Constitution.
We shall see whether the Supreme Court is still American – or Cheka.
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See if he can read and comprehend, or see if the idea of liberty is so far removed from his controller-prescribed universe that the following is gobbledygook to him:
“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited to it by the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”
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“but doesn’t limit the powers it assigns to the Branches, except with respect to individual rights.”
And it is my individual right not to be forced into buying something with the threat of being taxed otherwise.
Look at the early history between guys like Jefferson and Hamilton. Despite the arguement of the extention of Congressional power over general welfare, even Hamiliton never went as far as to say Congress is unlimited.
General welfare has nothing to do with the poor or sick specifically. You can not isolate groups of people.
penalizing the rich for instance, to provide for the poor is SPECIFIC, not general. It is nto a promotion of general welfare, it targets specifically a group.
Your limitless interpretation of the legislature, is not historical, nor is it current for that matter by any standard, except by those who prefer chineses statist control.
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The Constitution doesn’t say that “General welfare has nothing to do with the poor or sick specifically.” You do. Republicans do. Y’all have every right to your opinions. You just haven’t shown that your opinions are binding Constitutional principles. Your Congress may go along with you. The next may not.
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just wondering — is mandatory car insurance constitutional?
The Republican objection could have been avoided if a public option was the solution.
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Mandatory car insurance constitutional? Yes.
28 States have now joined the lawsuit.
It isn’t a Republican objection. It is a constitutional objection. We don’t live in a socialist country. When will you understand that? The Constitution LIMITS the powers of the federal government. WE HAVE STATES!!!!!
Normal people WANT freedom.
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“You just haven’t shown that your opinions are binding Constitutional principles. Your Congress may go along with you. The next may not.”
History will show you that until 1936, the precedent was on a narrow interpretation. In other words, the General Welfare clause bound the legislature not the opposite.
It meant that the federal government can not pick favorites. It can not enact a policy that favors Alabama over Florida or John Smith over Sally Jane. Prior to the 1930s the states and local communities had every power to do what they wanted as far as assistance to the poor, but it was never the federal job to intercede.
Read some history Scroop. General welfare is ensuring that everyone has the same opportunity to pursue their welfare or happiness/life. The whole constitution was designed so that you have as much freedom as me to live our lives. It was not designed to pick interest groups, major or minority and play favorites.
It is the very thing many of the settlers in the colonies had broken away from, and it is the very thing that ensures our freedom from oppressive government.
We are becoming what China already is on paper…statis controlled. They pick their favorites…
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“is mandatory car insurance constitutional?”
Isnt that a state by state law? Irrelative then.
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There is no such thing as mandatory car insurance.
If I have no vehicle, I am not required to have insurance (insurance requirements for cars are by state, by the way – not by the Federal government – a huge difference, Constitutionally speaking).
The Federal government cannot and does not (yet) force me to buy a car, to use a car, nor to provide insurance for it.
Even if I have a vehicle and drive it all day long on MY roads, my spread, my property, I am STILL not required to have insurance.
In short, I can chose to have car insurance – or not. It is no business of the Federal government.
Any attempt to compare Federally mandated auto insurance (which does not remotely exist, anyway – nor could or should it exist under the Constitution) and a diabolic legal requirement for Federally controlled, mandated, or run health insurance is sort of asinine.
Which means that comparison is used a lot by the Left.
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With the right wing whacko’s in charge of the Supreme Court, I wouldn’t be surprised if they do rule individual mandates unconstitutional. The Irony is, that if they do, they push us one step closer to a universal single payer system which is totally constitutional.
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“the Constitution and well-meaning-but-you-should-know-better government overreach that ignores constitutional boundaries”
You mean like federal drug laws?
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“The Federal government cannot and does not (yet) force me to buy a car, to use a car, nor to provide insurance for it.”
And that’s the kicker — they can’t force you to buy a car!
How is a single payer system constitutional?
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There is such a thing as mandatory insurance to cover potential liability.
If you are alive, you are a potential liability to the health care system. Justice Scalia says you engage in interstate commerce by growing a mairjuana plant in your kitchen window. By this great man’s inexorable logic, you engage in interstate commerce by breathing, eating, excreting, and reproducing, for, interstate commerce is what insures that you can keep breathing, eating, excreting, and reproducing.
Perhaps, NJLAWYER, you are prepared to concede that filing 1040’s is optional, because you can live off the fruit of your back yard, chickens, green beans, cucumbers and what not. Judging by the crappy pieces of junk many people drive, I would not say that operating a motor vehicle is optional.
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KWATSON — Very good point. Vermont is already seeking waivers from the health care reform law to establish a State of Vermont single payer plan, modeled after Taiwan, that prison of socialist tyrany.
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Potential liability means squat.
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Here are the ways Republicans punked themselves:
1. They voted on a bill they already voted on, and Real Men don’t repeat themselves.
2. They put scads of their own members on record saying that they truly support gummint subsidies and regulations, so long as they are Republicn subsidies and regulations.
3. They put scads of their own members on the wrong side of history (and public opinion) again.
[Look, Republicans are right that the public wants limited government, freedom, and market-based solutions. They also want subsidies, regulations, and a very comfy safety net. If you Republicans try to force the public to chose, they will never forgive you for it.]
4. Three Democrats (from OK, AR, NC) voted to repeal, not the 15 Democrats predicted by Republican cheerleader Steve King on Tuesday.
5. Although they lost the vote, Democrats won the floor debate. For that, the public will give Democrats a little bit of love, Republicans not so much.
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NJLAWYER You’re not stupid, are you? potential liability is why you must carry auto insurance, even if you never incur actual liability. I don’t think you’re stupid.
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It needs to be repeated every time one of these discussions happens: the car insurance argument is a red herring. While there are distinctions as some have said that it is state-based, and that you don’t need to own a car, the real difference is that only third-party (liability) insurance is mandatory, as a matter of financial responsibility to those you might injure by driving your car. The health-care individual mandate pertains to first-party insurance: in other words, the government is requiring you to purchase something for yourself that you might otherwise choose not to purchase. A federal court has held that to be unconstitutional as it is not authorized by the Interstate Commerce Clause. The correctness of that ruling will ultimately be decided by the Supreme Court.
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SM – Justice Scalia says you engage in interstate commerce by growing a mairjuana plant in your kitchen window.
Can you give a reference and context? Was he saying that, as a matter of U.S. Supreme Court precedent, that’s true, or that he felt that was a correct interpretation of the Interstate Commerce Clause? Surely you’re aware of Wickard v. Filburn, 317 U.S. 111 (1942), a decision from long before Justice Scalia was even in law school. That case held that growing wheat for one’s own private consumption could be regulated under the ICC because, if the poor defendant had not grown wheat, he might have bought some on the open market instead, and thus his act of growing his own had some effect on interstate commerce. As compared to the individual mandate, some have pointed out a distinction: growing wheat is activity that is at least somewhat economic in nature. Whereas, sitting back and declining to buy insurance, is inactivity. Can the government force you, under the guise of the ICC, to take economic action when you’d rather sit back and do nothing? If the “effects on interstate commerce” test is correct, then can the government require everyone to wear two right shoes, because doing so will cause people to wear out their shoes and thus buy new shoes more frequently?
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Although they lost the vote, Democrats won the floor debate.
Only in your dreams…
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….that is, unless the new debate rules give extra points for comparing your opponents to Nazis. In that case, perhaps the Dems did win, since only the Dems scored points that way.
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Two-thirds of doctors think Obamacare will make healthcare worse:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/41149280
One physician friend of mine predicts that within four years doctors will go on strike if it’s not repealed or substantially replaced. As between Obamacare, the Porkulus bill, and back-to-back $1.4 trillion deficits, I can hardly imagine a two-year period that could have been any more harmful to the Republic.
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Mandatory car insurance has nothing to do with mandatory health insurance. No one is required to buy a car. However, if you want to buy and drive your own vehicle, you’d better to be able to cover someone and yourself in case of an accident, hence the insurance. However, no one is alive without their body, but you can’t purchase your body, and you can’t exist as a citizen without your body. It makes no sense to force people to buy something or pay a fine simply for living.
Car insurance and health insurance are apples and oranges.
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” It makes no sense to force people to buy something or pay a fine simply for living.”
Kinda sorta like taxing people simply for dying.
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How is mandatory car insurance within the bounds of the Constitution? EASY!!!!!!! It only applies to “motor vehicles”, which is a specifically defined legal term within the motor vehicle codes of any of the states. When a car comes off the assembly line, it is a vehicle, but not a “motor vehicle”. The title that it comes with is the TRUE title, known as the manufacturer’s bill of origin. You never see this true title unless you pay in full for a new car and then demand the MBOE from the dealer, otherwise, the dealer will send in this title to your states DMV. THE STATE NOW OWNS THAT VEHICLE SINCE THEY HOLD TRUE TITLE. This is what gives them the authority to issue a “Certificate of Title” or “pink slip” … which is a lesser title than the MBOE.
Since the state owns the “motor vehicle” and are merely renting it back to you in exchange for the registration fee, that gives them the right to require your financial responsibility … either you buy insurance or post a bond. They never tell you about the option of posting a bond though, do they.
With Obamacare … there is a specific reason why that too is within Constitutional bounds … it is because you VOLUNTEERED. You did so via participation in what the govt. deems to be a 100% voluntary program known as Social Security. No law requires anyone to obtain or use an SSN to live OR WORK in the United States. True, it is virtually 100% enforced, but that is done via corporate policy within the private sector, usually based upon ignorance and fear, and not any law.
The key is not repeal of Obamacare … the key is 1) a law that would provide for a 1 time official opt out from Socialistic Insecurity/official denumeration and 2) a law requiring that a full disclosure in plain language be given anytime anyone anywhere for any reason asks for a socialist slavestate number, said disclosure to disclose all rights waived, powers of attorney granted, and liabilities incurred, including tax liabilities.
Pete
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Well, look who’s voting with their feet:
http://www.eutimes.net/2010/05/germany-emigration-up-birth-rate-down/
I’d prefer voting out the Dems.
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BUZZY – I’m not going to argue past commerce cases. You win your point that Scalia bowed down only out of fear of the Medes and the Persians, and not to worship in his heart.
I think your argument about “inactivity” is rhetorical and non-analytic. Living is not inactivity. Living people perform functions — respiration, circulation, locomotion, reproduction — which others have a moral, social, and legal duty to support. Life requires maintenance and occasional backup and support. The manufacturer delivers us as is, with no guarantee. The minute you’re born, society has to certify a pediatrician, train a zit doctor, a birth control doctor, an adult transition therapist, a geriatrician, and an army of people to poke and prod you along your way. You may never pass through the automatic doors of the ER, but somebody has to keep the light on for you there. So, the “inactivity” of your basic life functions creates costs for others. If you actually use the ER, you impose additional, incremental costs. The minute they pull down fresh paper over the examining table, and tell you to get into a gown with an open back, you engage in interstate commerce.
If everybody — everybody — paid their own bills, BUZZY, you could argue that health insurance is only for yourself. But everybody will never pay all their own bills, because, by definition, a health crisis is an incapacity to take care of yourself. Some of the resulting bills will be huge. In fact, it’s the bills that people can’t pay themselves which are the huge ones, and these will be paid with other people’s money. Insurance isn’t an ideal way to finance these costs (direct taxes and payment would be the practical and morally preferable way). But premiums are a reasonable, moderate, Blue-Dog way to assess financial responsibility for an individual’s role in interstate commerce.
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I was not outraged by the allusion to Nazi propaganda. I would have been, if the Blue Dog Conservadem had used the allusion to make his case against Republicans, but he did not. He made many apropos arguments which were not answered by Republicans. Republicans employed nothing but argument by assertion and repetition. Republicans have complained loudly that this Blue Dog compared their form of rhetoric to the propaganda techniques of Goebbels, But they didn’t refute the Blue Dog’s arguments, so their complaints are without weight.
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Here is today’s lesson on the Constitution. Hope the link works.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air/freedom-watch/index.html
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If you weren’t outraged by the comparison to the Nazis, perhaps you are too close to becoming one.
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In other words, you just called every Republican who voted to kick out the Dems from Congress Nazis. I resent that, deeply.
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As a Jewish American, I did find the comparison to Nazis offensive. A good-faith disagreement about the proper scope of the federal government should not be put in the same category as what the Nazis did. Plus, did you notice, all he did is repeat his allegation that the GOP was lying. So he did the same thing he was criticizing others for doing.
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SM – I don’t find your argument very compelling. Simply living is not an act of commerce. And if you discern within yourself a moral compulsion to take care of someone, although that may be noble, it is self-imposed. It therefore does not justify saddling the rest of us with extra costs. Certainly, the state cannot make that argument; it is a private matter. Besides, any “crisis” you perceive is largely illusory. I have worked alongside doctors who have practiced in the U.S., and in third-world countries. Their testimony is uniform that people here get taken care of, as even you seem to acknowledge. There was never any need for Obamacare beyond the federal government’s “need” to ever enlarge the scope of its power, and decrease what’s left of individual citizens’ liberty.
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Finally, your slight of Justice Scalia (”this great man’s inexorable logic”) seems particularly inapt. He was in the five-Justice majority in the only two cases since the 1930s that have struck down federal legislation as lying beyond Commerce Clause powers (the guns-in-schools act, and the violence against women act).
I’d like to know if you think the federal government has commerce clause powers to require all people to wear two right shoes, as I posed in my hypothetical above. Remember, doing so would have an effect on interstate commerce.
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One more time, since there is a spiritual blindness afoot that prevents people from seeing the obvious: you were all born with inalienable rights. One of your rights is an unlimited right to contract with each other. You even have the right to enter into contractual agreements with vampires. The problem with vampires is that they don’t give you a full disclosure, i.e., tell you that they are, in fact, vampires. Vampires, when they come calling, are exceedingly polite. They are true gentlemen, and they ask so nicely to be invited into your home. But what happens next?
As you all know from watching all those vampire movies … they can’t deal with sunlight, they cringe at the sight of a cross, they are vulnerable to silver daggers and bullets, you can chop their heads off, stake them thru the heart with a wooden stake, or ward them off with garlic … HOWEVER … once you invite one into your home, YOU ARE POWERLESS AGAINST IT. The vampire will laugh at you when you swing the garlic wreath, hold up the cross, try to stake it, etc. Furthermore, this is virtually a one for one analogy to your relationship with govt. The govt. has no right and NO POWER WHATSOEVER to enter into a contractual arrangement you have with someone or even a corporate entity to provide services in exchange for remuneration, but, people routinely INVITE THE GOVT. IN TO THEIR CONTRACTUAL RELATIONSHIPS WITH OTHERS VIA USE OF AN SSN. Cease the use of a socialist slavestate number and you will never hear from the govt. or the IRS or Obamacare, etc. It is that simple.
Since the majority of Americans are brainwashed into believing that they need a taxpayer ID number to expense out the cost of your remuneration for services you render them on their income tax filings, and since there is no such thing as logic when arguing with these morons, the thing to do is to have an entity that you control at arms length do your billing, i.e., a corporate entity with a corporate taxpayer ID number. The corporate entity can, in turn, remunerate you as a NON taxpayer, i.e., without a socialist slavestate number, expensing out the cost of your remuneration under “other” on the corporate tax filing. The corporation files, you don’t. The corporation files but doesn’t show a profit. Your clients are happy, you are happy, and there is no FICA, no federal income tax, no state income tax, no local income tax, and no Obamacare.
Pete
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If we discern within ourselves a compulsion to treat the indigent sick, then requiring such treatment is not optional to society, but an existential need like national defense, public safety, fire protection, etc. Calling medical treatment a personal choice rather than acknowledging it to be a categorical imperative weakens our confidence that society can protect us from chaos, and it invites all manner of anarchy. It’s unthinkable, a theoretical fancy. You might not agree, but most people will.
Providing medical care is also the law. We compel hospitals to treat whomever comes through the door without ability to pay.
Are you a prosecutor? I have the impression that it may be a crime to invite altruistic
interventions falsely when those efforts expose do-gooders to harm. Disappearing, for example, can provoke costly and dangerous search and rescue efforts which only discourage and embitter the volunteers. These examples illustrate the fact that we don’t view altruism as only a “self-imposed” task, but one that is also forced upon us by the recipients of our help.
So let’s review. You’re mortal, but that’s not just your misfortune. You also present the material problem of your mortality to society. Members of society feel compelled to do something about it, and indeed they are. They can’t say no without becoming a people and society they are constitutionally incapable of being. Hospitals which have to treat you are thereby compelled to prepare in advance for that possibility.
The only level of “inactivity” that spares society of any expense on your behalf would be your demise, and that imposes the trouble of a death certificate.
I think you misunderstand the inherent inability of people who have a personal medical crisis to pay for their care. These people do get care, at the acute moment, but they don’t pay, and can’t. Their inability to pay imposes huge costs on others. You also confuse the argument about the financing of unreimbursed costs by insisting that the indigent receive care anyway, but that’s irrelevant to the problem of assigning those costs. (And it’s also irrelevant to the fact that 40,000 people die unnecessarily every year due to lack of regular medical care, according to Harvard.)
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Fin ally, for me, since I’m not going tosay more about Scalia until I have another chance to land a dirty punch, finally, Rep. Steve Cohen.
If your being Jewish enables you to discover the offensiveness of attributing certain rhetorical strategies to the master propagandist Herr Dr. Goebbels, then perhaps being Jewish enabled Steve Cohen to discover analogies that were overlooked by others. I offer this as an apparently reasonable hypothesis.
As to the facts, you accuse Steve Cohen of making no argument in support of health care reform, none against repeal, and no counter-arguments against Republicans. You say he only accused Republicans of lying, and compensated for his shortcoming by invoking the comparisons with Nazi propaganda. I don’t believe your accusations. Steve Cohen has given long nerdy speeches. His reference to Goebbels wasn’t substitution for real persusasion, it was a an expression of his exasperation over his conclusions about Republican rhetoric.
I would change my mind if I read transcripts of brilliant Republican policy analysis in response to Cohen’s speeches.
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#45 Scroop Moth
“I would change my mind if I read transcripts of brilliant Republican policy analysis in response to Cohen’s speeches.”
Brilliant Republican policy analysis.
What he said, “We won. You lost.”
Scroop, every once in a while I get the feeling that you are only making the Devil’s arguments to make us conservatives do a better job of thinking and writing. Are you really a liberal?
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Gonuclear, the Left here does not believe in natural rights, inalienable rights. They believe people must do the government’s bidding. They trust the government — which, of course, is comprised of people, and what do we know about people and power? That power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. They treat the government as God. They worship it. And therein lies the problem.
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“the Left here does not believe in natural rights, inalienable rights.”
IMO a pretty strong scriptural case could be made for there being no natural or inalienable rights other than the promises of God. Those we’re guaranteed, but not really anything else.
Scripture certainly gives guidance for how people should treat other people, but to call that treatment a “right” suggests we’re “owed” proper treatment. It all sort of hinges on how you define “right”.
“They treat the government as God. They worship it.”
It’s ironic that you’d say this considering the way many WMB posters near-idolize the U.S. Constitution.
They believe people must do the government’s bidding. They trust the government — which, of course, is comprised of people, and what do we know about people and power? That power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. They treat the government as God. They worship it. And therein lies the problem.
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Ignore that last paragraph- it was cut/pasted from NJL’s comment and I forgot to delete it.
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“Perhaps, NJLAWYER, you are prepared to concede that filing 1040’s is optional,”
Seems to be optional for guys like Gietner…
But not men like Wesley Snipes…tis a shame really.
“potential liability is why you must carry auto insurance”
But you dont have to carry auto insurance by federal law. These are STATE laws. And the state has every ability to enact such a law.
The FEDS do not. The Feds can not force you by law to pursue other peoples well being.
Get that through your head. If Vermont wants a single payer system or if Vermont wants to promote lumber farming over ore mining, it has every power to do so. The FEDS do not. The Feds are charged with protecting commerce and ensuring that states and people can do it freely.
By the way, on Tiawan. They have 23 million people. As of 2007 they are in defecit for their single payer system. They managed to make it that long because their admin costs are a mere 1.5% and they stremlined medical access with data cards.
It will not work in America for at least those glaring two reasons. Our government wont reduce admin cost and definately not to that low. Nor will the people go for carrying around medical cards with their info all over it.
These systems are losing systems. They never break even. The costs escalate and the people abuse the system.
So trading the federal government for private insurance companies doesnt solve the problem.
You would be far better off, expanding insurance competition across states and declaring nationwide that health insurance companies must be non profit.
Meanwhile, doing what you can to reduce admin and over testing. Streamlining medical data for doctors without breaching peoples privacy.
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The VA wasnt always that great. It underwent tremendous revision, which worked primarily because the government started demanding quality, being willin got fire those who didnt produce results, gave soveriegnty from malpractice suits, and streamlined their data/tracking system to reduce medication mistakes.
Veterans dont care, they’ve had dog tags for years.
Amazing how much better the public education system might work if you made teachers performanced based as well…holding supervisors accountable.
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“These systems are losing systems. They never break even. The costs escalate and the people abuse the system.”
Do you suppose the Taiwanese spend more (public + private, per GDP) on health care than U.S. citizens? I’m positive they don’t.
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Thats all the more the point Buddy. They do spend less, and yet still cant break even anymore. 6.5% I think compared to 15% for us.
They reduced cost tremendously in comparison. But “free” unverisal health care means people go for a sneeze to the hospital, rather than to get a tissue.
The best hospitals are slammed with patients.
They also didnt have insurance companies really to begin with.
So you had one of the better conditions to start up a single payer system, and it is still LOSING ground financially.
If you cant break even and still cover everyone, it will never work in the long run. It especially wont work in America which has health insurance companies lining the pockets of politicians.
Your talking about 300 million vs. 23 million…with a government that has a proven track record of INCREASING Administration costs and a dominating percentage of Americans who perfer their privacy and do it yourself attitude.
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In science and engineering, when the pilot scale tests dont work…you can rest assured the full scale process WON’T. We have multiple examples of single payer and government run health systems, that have only degraded. They do not show substantial success or improvement, and in the long run they compromise quality and access due to finacial losses.
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“If you cant break even and still cover everyone, it will never work in the long run.”
They’re only “not breaking even” because they’re declining to collect enough in payroll taxes to cover the program. They could, of course, do exactly that and they’d still be spending less (in total) than the U.S. does.
Are there problems with the quality of care received in Taiwan? I’m sure there are. Then again they spend less than half what we do; is it reasonable to expect the exact same results? It’s also worth noting that, whatever problems they have, a given Taiwanese almost surely receives better care than the 15% of Americans who lack insurance.
I’m not necessarily arguing that Taiwan’s health care policy is the absolute best model and that every other nation should follow it. I’m arguing that it is but one of many examples in which a country manages to engineer a situation where 99% of its population has decent health care while spending significantly less per capita than we do in the United States.
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“They’re only “not breaking even” because they’re declining to collect enough in payroll taxes to cover the program.”
To what extent can you do that though? Even ifyou took all their money, and provided everything via government, it would still run short in the long run.
Government can not enevitably sustain that practice.
It’s a black hole so to speak.
Coverage, doesnt make people better. It is a response to people having been treated.
Taiwan is one of hte best, it doesnt face the problems the US has, and thats all the mor emy point. Even the best system, under the best condition, is losing out borrowing from banks already.
Sure 99% are covered, but for how long? How long before quality slips or Taiwan goes broke and is consumed by China?
Theyll last far longer than we will primarily becasue of their culture and prior absence of health insurers.
I personally believe that if Taiwan can get admin costs down to 1.5% (Which is at least 20 times less than us) and streamline their data system., that it would be far better for us to look at ways in helpiong or acheiving that, without federal government take over.
US medical costs would go drastically down if you rudece admin and over testing. That is what is sucking the life out of us. It honestly doesnt take a federal take over to find ways to fix that.
I’m also not opposed to states doing whatever they want.
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Drill: If I have no vehicle, I am not required to have insurance (insurance requirements for cars are by state, by the way – not by the Federal government – a huge difference, Constitutionally speaking).
Well, when you reach a point where you don’t have a body that is prone to illness and injury, then you can argue for not needing health insurance. Unlike owning a car, however, it’s not optional.
Health care is not optional. We all need it from time to time. Some of use need it for very big and expensive reasons, others don’t, but everybody who does die will need health care at some points in their lives.
Given that the need for the care is universal, there’s a very strong argument that each of us has the responsibility to have a means to pay for it, just as we do food, shelter and clothing. And given that most of us lack the wealth to pay the costs ourselves, mandatory insurance is sensible.
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#57,
you say: …And given that most of us lack the wealth to pay the costs ourselves, mandatory insurance is sensible.
Based on a neo-Marxist worldview you see govt mandating many aspects of our lives. From a Christian worldview we see govt not having that responsibility. From a constitutional strict constructionist view the Feds have no business in this. From a humanist living breathing document view the contitution can be twisted to allow govt to do just about anything it desires.
Before govt got heavily involved, unconstitutionally, with health care back in the 1960s health care was affordable without health insurance. Health care costs escalated after govt got involved just as education costs escalated once govt began wide spread scholarships and grants.
Utopia is govt doing everything for us; reality of this utopia is national bankruptcy. Social Security is going bust as is Medicare; they are both ponzi schemes reaching the ends of their natural lives.
Since govt can’t even do these two programs right why should we allow it to unconstitutionally control/regulate all of our healthcare?
Do you think, even remotely, that there may be other paths to pursue to resolve health care problems other than the ones govt actions in the past have helped create?
We are dealing with the “fireman that starts fires to come back and put them out and then called a hero.”
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Before govt got heavily involved, unconstitutionally, with health care back in the 1960s health care was affordable without health insurance. Health care costs escalated after govt got involved
Also there are lots of expensive new drugs and other technologies. That couldn’t have anything to do with it, could it? Also an increase in the amount of malpractice awards, leading to higher malpractice insurance costs and “defensive medicine”? Or umpteen other reasons besides “the government got involved”?
Do you suppose that if Medicare, Medicaid, SCHIP and corporate tax incentives for employers to offer health insurance all magically disappeared that the cost of care would plummet? I don’t. Total spending would decrease for sure, but only by virtue of there being a bunch of old and poor folks who could no longer afford health care.
How many 80-year olds do you think could afford to purchase health insurance out of their own pocket? This is assuming a private insurer would actually insure them without being forced to do so by regulation. The premiums would need to be astronomical for an insurer to turn a profit on someone like that, and that’s assuming the insured is relatively healthy and doesn’t have an existing condition.
Or consider the other countries with more involvement than the U.S. that nevertheless spend less per capita on health care. That would be “all of them”, and by a sizable margin. If I recall the next highest per capita spender is Switzerland at around 11% GDP. We spend around 16% GDP.
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Is it really unconstitutional to require citizens to purchase health insurance?
The men who actually wrote the Constitution didn’t think so, because they did exactly that.
http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2011/01/17/congress-passes-socialized-medicine-and-mandates-health-insurance-in-1798/
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RWHawk: Before govt got heavily involved, unconstitutionally, with health care back in the 1960s health care was affordable without health insurance. Health care costs escalated after govt got involved just as education costs escalated once govt began wide spread scholarships and grants.
False. The rise of insurance, in which providers found themselves able to charge much more for services and still get paid, is the only real demand-side reason that medical costs are so high. Medicare and Medicaid are part of that tapestry, as they are insurance programs, but they are only two dots in a sea of private insurance plans.
And to the extent that government plans are part of the problem, how would you propose to solve it? Just tell seniors on Medicare and poor people on Medicaid that they’re on their own now?
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BuddyGlass: Do you suppose that if Medicare, Medicaid, SCHIP and corporate tax incentives for employers to offer health insurance all magically disappeared that the cost of care would plummet? I don’t. Total spending would decrease for sure, but only by virtue of there being a bunch of old and poor folks who could no longer afford health care.
Exactly. But I think that as long as the problem is invisible, a lot of people are quite happy to ignore it.
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Conan,
This 1798 statute (5 Cong. Ch. 77, July 16, 1798, 1 Stat. 605) is currently making the blogospheric rounds as purported proof that the 2010 congressional mandate to purchase health insurance from a private company is based on long-established practice. Incorrect. Sections 1 and 2 of the act impose a 20 cent per month tax on seamen’s wages, to be withheld by the employer. Section 3 requires that all the withheld taxes be turned over to the U.S. Treasury on a quarterly basis, and that the revenue shall be expended in the district where it was collected. The revenue shall be spent to support sick and injured seamen. So the Act is totally dissimilar to the Obamacare mandate.
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Buddy,
The medical costs greatly escalated after govt got heavily involved. I never did entertain magical disappearance now did I?
We will never know how life would have turned out if govt kept within the confines of the Constitution other than we wouldn’t be on the edge of bankruptcy with a failing currency.
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Conan,
you say: “how would you propose to solve it? Just tell seniors on Medicare and poor people on Medicaid that they’re on their own now?”
The price for the welfare state and socialism. Pretty soon reality just can’t be avoided and the candy store has to close.
It is impossible to support the unfunded liabilities of Medicare and Social Security much longer. We are quickly approaching the day of reckoning. I would suggest raising eligibility ages, raising out of pocket costs and gradually backing out of the socialism and giving responsibility back to each individual.
Conan, how would you solve the welfare costs with inadequate funds? How would you solve the pending insolvency of the states which is just the other side of the socialist coin? Afterall, its your worldview that got us into this mess.
A Path Is Sought for States to Escape Their Debt Burdens
By MARY WILLIAMS WALSH, NY Times
Published: January 20, 2011
Policymakers are working behind the scenes to come up with a way to let states declare bankruptcy and get out from under crushing debts, including the pensions they have promised to retired public workers.
But proponents say some states are so burdened that the only feasible way out may be bankruptcy, giving Illinois, for example, the opportunity to do what General Motors did with the federal government’s aid.
Beyond their short-term budget gaps, some states have deep structural problems, like insolvent pension funds, that are diverting money from essential public services like education and health care. Some members of Congress fear that it is just a matter of time before a state seeks a bailout, say bankruptcy lawyers who have been consulted by Congressional aides.
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RWHawk: Sections 1 and 2 of the act impose a 20 cent per month tax on seamen’s wages, to be withheld by the employer. Section 3 requires that all the withheld taxes be turned over to the U.S. Treasury on a quarterly basis, and that the revenue shall be expended in the district where it was collected. The revenue shall be spent to support sick and injured seamen. So the Act is totally dissimilar to the Obamacare mandate.
Well you are correct about that; the 1798 act actually is government-run health care (socialized medicine), whereas the health reform of 2010, frequently falsely accused of being that, is largely just some new rules for insurers.
But it does show that the actual authors of the Constitution did not think it was against the Constitution to require people to pay involuntarily for health care.
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There is not a general mandate of any kind in the ACT. None. It’s not even a tax on all sailors. It is a tax on a very narrowly defined group of people within the subset of sailors that are engaging in international activities; and that falls under the purview of the federal government constitutionally.
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Conan,
you’re using and apples and oranges argument.
You didn’t have a reality answer for the question I possed back to you. The cupboard is bare; how do you continue to feed Medicare and Social Security?
Obama praised England’s NICE: Q: How is that measured?
A: It’s based on the cost of a measure called the “quality-adjusted life year” [QALY]. A QALY scores your health on a scale from zero to one: zero if you’re dead and one if you’re in perfect health. You find out as a result of a treatment where a patient would move up the scale. If you do a hip replacement, the patient might start at .5 and go up to .7, improving by .2. You can assume patients live for an average of 15 years following hip replacements. And .2 times 15 equals three quality-adjusted life years. If the hip replacement costs 10,000 GBP [about $15,000] to do, it’s 10,000 divided by three, which equals 3,333 GBP [about $5,000]. That figure is the cost per QALY.
Q: So by the cost per quality-adjusted life year, you are basically deciding how much a year of life is worth?
A: Yes. The most controversial area is where you place the dividing line between what is cost-effective and what is cost-ineffective. That is the “How much is life worth?” question. And there is no real empirical research to guide you.
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1888006,00.html#ixzz1Bm1eYTfZ
So accordng to Obama: When Granny gets to be too costly, exceeds her QALY, we will give her “happy” pills instead of life sustaining treatment. WOW, socialism is great, isn’t it? Bureaucrats making life sustaining decisions for us while the politicians collapse the country.
What do you suppose happens to the QALY as the health budget gets lower and more people get into the system? More and more “happy” pill dispensing?
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“The men who actually wrote the Constitution didn’t think so, because they did exactly that.”
Adams got beat out by Jefferson…what do you think the people said? No thanks to Adams and Hamilton ideals. You cant lump the founders all together when it comes to centralized vs. state powers. You know..there was a big war fought over it…
Besides, like the VA, the program was highly specific to sailors.
I probably would have voted against it though, asking that the states take it upon themselves to protect their resident sailors.
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“That couldn’t have anything to do with it, could it? Also an increase in the amount of malpractice awards, leading to higher malpractice insurance costs and “defensive medicine”? Or umpteen other reasons besides “the government got involved”?”
Could have also been all those drugs and hippie things decreasing everyone’s health…
But the main factor is, is over testing and admin. 200 Billion at least a pop for each. Meanwhile I think malpractice was only about 24 billion in 2009…
Government involvment has so far only added admin and overtesting.
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DCINNES . . . the Tea Party certainly deserves a kiss for turning our attention to . . . constitutional boundaries.
Yet, who could be closer to the intentions of the drafters of the Constitution than John Adams and a US Congress whose members included some of those very drafters?
The 5th Congress in 1798 passed and President Adams signed “An Act for the Relief of Sick and Disabled Seamen.” The Act was supported by Alexander Hamilton, Albert Galatin, and the demigod of Tea Partiers, Thomas Jefferson.
The law authorized the creation of a government-owned and operated marine hospital service, and mandated that privately employed sailors be required, through a payroll tax, to purchase health care insurance. All sailors were mandated to pay; in return they got gummint health care!
Ezra Klein says, ” it was, in essence, a regulation against a form of inactivity: You were not allowed to not do something, in this case, pay for sailor’s health insurance.”
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2011/01/the_founders_health-care_manda.html
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FALSE. No sailors were mandated to purchase anything. Some sailors were assessed a tax. But only a narrowly prescribed group of sailors who chose to engage in international activity which falls under the purview of the federal government.
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The Klein piece is filled with inaccuracies and not worth the read. The Unger piece he references is more honest and worth reading, including the comment section where the author engages several salient points. But if you really want to know what it says, read the original ACT. It’s short enough, and not that difficult to understand.
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Sorry, my ‘original ACT’ link is messed up. This should be it:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/29099806/Act-for-the-Relief-of-Sick-DisabledSeamen-July-1798
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DEBRA –
The ACT makes no mention of taxation. All seamen engaged in foreign trade are required to pay money for a government owned and operated hospital system. The ACT mandates sailors to pay 20 cents a month for Adamscare.
Bear in mind, the enactors included many drafters of the Constitution who opposed noxious bills of attainder. The supporters included people like Thos Jefferson who are closer to original intent than DCINNES or any spouting tea pot today.
Adams and Jefferson, no pals in government, were united in their judgement that mandatory government healthcare for sick seamen was a constitutionally-empowered provision for the general welfare.
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DEBRA – thanks for the link. I’ve carefully redacted the highlights :
An act for the relief of sick and disabled seamen.
[The ship master] shall pay, to the said collector, at the rate of twenty cents per month for every seaman so employed ; which sum he is hereby authorized to retain out of the wages of such seamen.
and the president of the United States is hereby authorized, out of the same, to provide for the temporary relief and maintenance of sick, or disabled seamen . . .
. . . and to cause buildings, when necessary, to be erected as hospitals for the accommodation of sick and disabled seamen.
. . . and also, subject to the like general instructions, to direct and govern such hospitals, as the president may direct to be built in the respective ports . . [Approved, July 16, 1798.
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#76 Yes that is accurate. However, it was not a tax or fee or levy–whatever you want to call it—on ALL sailors, but rather only on those who fell under federal jurisdiction because of their international activities.
Whether or not the Act was a tax or not is debatable. But either way, this Act seems like it very well could be the genesis of our current VA system. And all the more so when you consider the quasi-military nature of the merchant marines at the time.
Although the Act is very interesting, it really says nothing to the ObamaCare mandate on every US citizen to be insured regardless of their activity or inactivity. It says nothing to the mandate to purchase health insurance from a private company. Nor does it in any way justify general socialized healthcare, since it is very narrowly construed around those areas in which the federal government has constitutional authority. At best, it is loosely analogous (very loosely) to the car insurance mandate–except for the fact that car insurance is a state mandate—and except for the fact that the Act is not a private insurance.
BTW, The comment section in the Unger article was very interesting—more interesting than the article itself from my perspective. And of course, I agreed more with Unger’s dissenters, some of whom, even he agreed, made very convincing cases for other opinions.
All in all, its one of the more interesting takes on the healthcare debate.
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DEBRA, it sounds like you may concede the existence of potential arguments in favor of costitutionality, and might disagree with Tea Party folks who declare it to be a flagrant and obvious transgression of the founder’s principles. Thanks for that, anyway, if that’s what you are saying.
Where do you get the idea that mariners “fell under federal jurisdiction because of their international activities”? The seamen’s relief act was constitutional because Congress may regulate any activity that involves interstate commerce. Congress in its view of the general welfare could have set up hospital systems for bargemen or mule drivers, and miners.
(Yes, wheat farmers, too. There are very few US laws that SCOTUS has ruled to be outside the power of the commerce clause.)
The fact that the 1798 enactors did not call the money they took from sailors a tax is highly relevant to our current debate about the constitutionality of penalties en lieu of mandatory insurance. The power to tax is explict, of course, but why couldn’t penalties be permitted by the reasonable and proper clause? The enactors seemed to be unsure what to call the money they took from sailors, vaguely naming it a “sum.” Yet, the enactors did not consider the nomenclature to be vital to the constitutionality.
Ezra Klein’s point is clever — the 1798 act does not allow sailors not to pay for the government hospital system. Thos. Jefferson et. al. regulated against a form of inactivity and forced sailors to buy something.
I see little difference between penalizing the ship masters and penalizing those individuals who refuse to pay for their hospital benefit.
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Scroop,
Ha. Don’t thank me too fast; you might want to change your mind. I found Klein’s article sloppy, and his point not so clever–it’s not even correct. Only sailors employed by ships coming from foreign ports or possibly engaging in the coasting trade are specified under the Act. Other sailors, say local fishermen, were not specified at all, so would not have to pay.
In the comment section Unger says that the reasoning behind passing the Act was the impact on foreign trade—not the health or welfare of sailors per se. Sickness, disease or injury of uniquely skilled merchant marines meant that ships could not be manned sufficiently to go back and forth between foreign ports to bring back the goods so necessary for our brand new, growing nation. This negatively affected foreign trade, and therefore, the national interest, or so goes the argument.
It does seem to me that there is a good argument to be made that at least some of the founders would have little or no problem with our VA healthcare system. And although I have never opposed VA healthcare, because we have a standing army and to me that is a reasonable part of supplying it, I am a little surprised to learn that even as our nation was finding its feet, our founders were anticipating that need.
If you’re hoping the Tea Party will be overset by this or suddenly lose support, you’ll be disappointed. And I don’t think it even helps ObamaCare, which still suffers from those obstacles I mentioned in #77—and many more I’m sure. But it is interesting.
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I wonder what FRANK would have to say about this.
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I think you clarified that well Debra.
Besides, if the founders were all in favor of universal health care, they could have done so as easily as the sailor act.
They only felt the need to provide for those under extreme danger over international trade. Much like our veterans in ways. In fact if you read more into the history, you’ll find thats exactly who they were covering for as most of the US seamen were the naval veterans of the war and it was also the prime resource for future naval marines and sailors should war return.
Highly limited scope of a bill. In fact if you read further into the history it was poorly funded, poorly run, and the president never appointed administrators to the hospitals. It wasnt until 1871 when it was reformed and a surgeon general was finally appointed.
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DEBRA – Yes, the enactors thought Seamen’s hospitals were particularly in the national interest, but their reason could have led them to the establishment of hospital systems for lots of important workers
Thanks for conceding the need for the VA. But, I thought the government can’t run anything without killing its clients? How can it be that the VA is run well, and it’s government healthcare, lock stock and barrel?
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Scroop,
It seems to me that they construed the Act to apply to a very narrow set of sailors for a very specific purpose. And the people who paid were the people who benefited from the service. There was no tax or moneys levied from other citizens to pay for sailors’ healthcare. And the funds were required to be used within the district in which they were collected. There was no ‘redistribution’ of wealth involved. This is very different from Obamacare.
I don’t think there’s any way you can argue that they would or could have established healthcare for ALL workers. And certainly not in such a way as to effectively take over the healthcare of the entire nation. While Obamacare may only be a step (a giant step) in that direction, I think that is what the left seeks to do.
Regarding the VA, I recall that it has had its problems and some think it would be better if privately run, but I would hope that it is reasonably well run as is. The VA only services a limited number of people, and veterans who don’t want to use the services are not forced to because there are plenty of other doctors and hospitals available. My father does not use them, though he is eligible. I would think that the restricted number of people using it, the limited number of facilities, and the existence of private alternatives all plays a significant role in its success. It may also help that there is relatively little political opposition to the VA. When people are in agreement, even difficult projects are much easier to run.
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DEBRA –
Your first paragraph above helps to depict the payroll withholding not as a tax but as a premium, in fact, an involuntary purchase of insurance. You point out that “the people who paid were the people who benefited from the service.” That’s what I tried to argue at #75.
The Constitution doesn’t limit the number of beneficiaries of (or people subject to) an act of Congress. There’s nothing in logic that prevents Congress from enlarging a previous model.
I believe the 1798 act was largely a humanitarian gesture for the relief of the sick and disabled, not an means to maintain healthy crews. 18th C medicine couldn’t put sailors with broken health back on board. Hospitals were primarily hospices.
The VA has been described as America’s best health care system with regard to quality and satisfaction.
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There would be a serious logical roadblock between a narrowly specified ’some’ on the basis of foreign trade/national interest, versus ‘all’ on the basis of general welfare. I’m not a constitutional expert, but I doubt that case could be successfully made. But we may see them try.
I don’t see any reason to believe that the Act was a humanitarian effort, but rather an incentive to encourage sailors to undertake the rigors and dangers of overseas trade, which was a vital national interest since it was the only means of getting goods not produced here. And it was also a means to get them healed up and sent back out again if possible. They were being asked to undertake serious risk to life and limb—much as our military is today.
I see the success of the VA as being attributed to its narrow scope, near universal support, and the plentiful alternatives to using it. If these circumstances changed, I’d expect to see a serious deterioration.
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There is no inherent reason why a subset must be disjoint from a set. The subset of natural numbers, for instance, is part of the set of rational numbers.
Seamen were essential. Congress through the functions of addition and replication could reasonably, have altered the 1798 Act to provide for the relief of workers who are merely important.
The subset of boatmen in overseas shipping possesses the essential property of being blown about the earth by the winds of chance. Benjamin Franklin would have thought half the American labor force shared that property. Thos. Jefferson’s vision of continental expansion depended on it.
I think the distinguishing feature of the seamen is that they were a captive subject for government mandates.
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“Thanks for conceding the need for the VA. But, I thought the government can’t run anything without killing its clients? How can it be that the VA is run well, and it’s government healthcare, lock stock and barrel?”
It didnt always run well. It runs well now because VA doctors have immunity, the patient records/tracking/medicine dispersal system is HIGHLY streamlined at the expense of privacy. Military vets dont mind that. So your admin costs and overtesting are minimal.
The reason this model would fail on a national scale is because regular doctors dont get immunity, admin and overtesting costs suck, privacy is a major issue with most americans.
“Seamen were essential. Congress through the functions of addition and replication could reasonably, have altered the 1798 Act to provide for the relief of workers who are merely important.”
The original seaman health model hardly worked. It would be the equivilant today of Alaska offering health benefits to its crab fisherman due to the importance of their trade for alaska and the treacherous environment. The seaman health benefits were encouraging sailors…which the US needed a resource of at that time should they immediately need a trained navy.
It was never a model for every worker in the US, nor would expanding it to do so have been beneficial.
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