Elephant Room invite undermines black evangelicals
If I wanted to turn thousands of African-Americans and Hispanics away from churches committed to the Reformation doctrines of grace I would create a public event where a couple of white Calvinist pastors publicly argue against a well-known and respected black pastor in Pentecostal circles. This is exactly what could happen on Jan. 25, as James MacDonald, along with his co-moderator Mark Driscoll, will host pastor T.D. Jakes for a public conversation in The Elephant Room.
According to the website, “The Elephant Room features blunt conversations between seven influential pastors who take differing approaches to ministry.” MacDonald, a council member of The Gospel Coalition, organized the event as a way for people to hear from church leaders like Jakes. Conversation and dialogue are always good and can help bring about discernment, but that’s not the problem here. There’s more to this situation than theology. What baffles many evangelical leaders is why MacDonald chose, as his first African-American guest, a pastor that many consider to be a heretic because of his views of the Trinity.
Carl Trueman, who teaches church history at Westminster Theology Seminary, has raised questions about MacDonald’s understanding and commitment to the doctrine of the Trinity and the Nicene Creed because of the way he seems OK with Jakes’ view of the Trinity not as “persons” but as “manifestations”—a view often associated with a heresy called modalism. Trueman also raised concerns about whether there’s any accountability for MacDonald.
What is even more devastating, some argue, is that MacDonald’s invitation to Jakes undermines decades of work by black evangelical leaders and pastors to steer their congregations away from such theological beliefs. For example, an incensed Thabiti Anyabwile, senior pastor of First Baptist Church of Grand Cayman in the Grand Cayman Islands and a Gospel Coalition council member, wrote that the Jakes invitation is the equivalent to “Augustine inviting Muhammed.” Anyabwile continued:
“The news of T.D. Jakes’ invitation to The Elephant Room is widespread and rightly lamented by many. I’m just adding a perspective that hasn’t yet been stated: This kind of invitation undermines that long, hard battle many of us have been waging in a community often neglected by many of our peers. And because we’ve often been attempting to introduce African-American Christians to the wider Evangelical and Reformed world as an alternative to the heresy and blasphemy so commonplace in some African-American churches and on popular television outlets, the invitation of Jakes to perform in ‘our circles’ simply feels like a swift tug of the rug from beneath our feet and our efforts to bring health to a sick church.”
Reddit Andrews III, senior pastor of Soaring Oaks Presbyterian (PCA) Church in Elk Grove, Calif., and a Gospel Coalition council member, lamented:
“I must admit my heart sank a bit when I learned of the issue. I felt as though, in the context of the Coalition itself, to provide T.D. Jakes any significant evangelical (let alone Reformed) platform is a slap in the face of many African-American preachers who have made significant sacrifices to partner with Anglo ministers. We have often embraced issues that—if truth be told—have minimal import for our own communities in hopes that eventually we’ll get significant engagement in our native communities. It feels like an unnecessary and uncalled for setback to we who passionately hope to see a return to orthodox views in the black community—along with every other community.”
Anthony Carter, pastor of East Point Church near Atlanta and a council member of The Gospel Coalition, added:
“I agree with Thabiti, that the invitation to Jakes sends a mixed message and carries the potential of validating one the most pronounced purveyors of false teaching in the world. I would hope The Elephant Room (James MacDonald and Mark Driscoll, in particular) would reconsider this invitation.”
The entire situation is such a punch in the stomach to blacks who have suffered to affiliate with gospel-centered evangelicalism that it now “raises association, separation, and accountability concerns for me that I did not have to the same degree before now,” wrote Anyabwile. “It raises significant questions about how members of The Gospel Coalition associate and endorse beyond the Coalition meetings themselves.”
MacDonald could have chosen from dozens of black pastors who have differing views but instead choose Jakes to display, before a mostly white audience, a de facto representative of the black church. Even worse, tens-of-thousands of Jakes’ black and Hispanic followers could easily racialize the conversation if MacDonald or Driscoll seem to be attacking him in any way. One could say that this entire debacle undermines the racial unity and reconciliation sought by The Gospel Coalition and by men like John Piper through his book Bloodlines.
So far there is little expectation that the concerns of Anyabwile, Andrews, and Carter will be addressed so, in solidarity, I plan not to pay to watch the event, either. And should MacDonald move forward, black Gospel Coalition members and evangelicals might be justified in concluding that mainstream leaders like him find their concerns irrelevant and not worthy of consideration.

















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back to top34 Comments to “Elephant Room invite undermines black evangelicals”
Anthony,
I don’t know if you’ve expressed your concern to those leading the Elephant Room (though undoubtedly others have), but I wish you would.
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Why is this a black-white issue and who is making it so?
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How about we let Jakes come and make counter-arguments? Then black audience members could compare the logic of ea side and choose with whom their views line up most. Undoubtedly there will be black folks who side with Jakes out of some misplaced anachronistic “black loyalty” without throughly examining the coherence of his theological worldview. They will call him a leader just because he’s black like them even if he espouses views in conflict with their own. Sounds familiar no?
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I accept the doctrine of the Trinity by faith, not because I think I understand the divine nature of the God of the universe but because I think the Bible (understood as a whole) teaches that doctrine. I find it hard, however, to be overly dogmatic or divisive on this point (i.e. what terms must be used and other particulars that people get passionate about) since the nature of God Himself is not an easy notion to claim to have down pat and biblical interpretation is not an exact science. Its a humbling doctrine to hold.
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“How about we let Jakes come and make counter-arguments?”
Because the purpose of The Gospel Coalition is to promote the preaching of the gospel, not to give people an opportunity to decide whether they like heresy or not.
There are forums for such things, but at the very least, it undermines the mission of The Gospel Coalition to go off mission like this.
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And because we’ve often been attempting to introduce African-American Christians to the wider Evangelical and Reformed world as an alternative to the heresy and blasphemy so commonplace in some African-American churches..
Yep, I’d say it’s a racial issue…
Coomonplace heresy and blasphemy! Shame on “them”. And somehow I think it has precious little to do with the trinity, a subject which precious few American congregants of any color can discourse with any conviction.
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Joel Mark,
If you’re not going to be passionate and “divisive” over orthodox understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity, what do you care about, and where do you draw boundaries? Certainly nothing in the realm of politics is this important.
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“Anglo ministers” Who talks like this?!
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PUBLIUS,
I never siad I would not be passionate about it. I did not even say I would not be dogmatic or divisive about it but that I would not be overly dogmatic or divisive about it.
Christian unity is something Jesus prayed for and thought was possible. It is not possible if we do not allow people to think things through and challenge ideas and understandings about difficult concepts honestly. I think we need to realize that being right about theology is not what the Bible teaches saves us.
What is imperitive, however, is repenting of our sins and surrending our lives in ofaithful bediance to the rule of God as citizens in the kingdom of heaven.
What is imperative is seeking first the kingdom of God and His righteousness (Matthew 6:33).
What is imperative is confessing Jesus as both Lord and Savior and participating with Him in His death, burial and resurrection unto a new life (His gift) that begins this side of heaven.
I think we often make tests of faith out of matters that the Bible does not make tests of faith. All that said, I teach and preach the Trinity with all my heart, mind, soul and strength. But I am patient with people who are struggling to get it.
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I’m with Joel, as he precisely worded his statement. A person who has accepted Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior can be confused on the doctrine of the Trinity and still be a brother or sister.
I used to struggle to believe and accept the doctrine myself.
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I agree with Joel Mark and Kyle A. I also found it a hard doctrine, but completely biblical. And the faith God gives to receive it is a wonderful thing.
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Joel Mark,
The Bible does make believing true things a test of faith. This is one of the three big indicators of salvation given in 1 John as a basis of genuine assurance (the other two are obeying God and loving other believers). A new believer might not understand the doctrine of the Trinity immediately, but when exposed to the teaching, he’ll believe it, evidencing the Spirit’s activity in his life. T.D. Jakes knows the orthodox formulation of the Trinity and has rejected it for decades. That’s a problem.
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Here’s a biblically-defensible graphic depicting how belief and salvation interact:
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Apparently we can’t post pictures here. url:
http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/files/2010/09/DSB-what-Christians-believe.jpg
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This very white Christian worker can’t help but jump to the conclusion that this set-up is racist. Instead of coming up with a fabricated strawman, MacDonald has chosen a doctrinally extreme “minister” to represent all Black ministers to his audience. Still a strawman argument that sadly many believers, who are not acquainted with African-American believers, will fall for.
The Trinity must be defended, but what will be the collateral damage?
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God is the author of salvation, PUBLIUS, and I say this knowing you already agree. I respect your conviction highly. I also believe in and teach the Trinity. Still, as a minister, I encounter people whose journey of faith involves various degrees of SINCERE struggle with tough ideas. I also encounter people who are all too ready to swing the salvation sickle and separate the wheat from the chaff strictly based on doctrinal professions. I counsel more humility while teaching the truth and trusting the Holy Spirit to bring the truth home in the listener’s heart. I teach the truth as I understand it and I trust God with salavation judgments.
I know what the Bible gives us as literal imperatives on the road to salvation but I don’t know what is literally “essential” for salvation because God, as the author of salvation, has the freedom to grant it as He sees fit, not as I see fit.
When Zaccheaus made a moral turn in his life, Jesus said, “Today, salvation has come to this house.” When the thief on the cross showed honest contrition and recognized Jesus’ authority and innocence, he was invited into Paradise. Jesus can do that!
I think 1 John is powerfully compatible with the doctrine of the Trinity and backs it up, but it does not spell it out fully and definitively. We must glean that doctrine from the careful study of a wider span of Scripture. I do so.
You asked what I care about. Many things, but primarily, I think that a repentant heart and a turn around (initiated by God’s Holy Spirit) is what matters most from the start. A very uneducated and untutored man or young person can do this.
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PUBLIUS, I have preached and taught the doctrine of the Trinity in the face of opposition for fellow church leaders. They came around, I think, because I respected their questions and objections and responded with solid biblical evidence for it. But I never treated it as if someone’s salvation was on the line. Whether or not it was, I cannot know, but I did not treat it that way.
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I agree with Joel Mark.
Nice comments.
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@ #17 – I meant *”…from fellow church leaders.”
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I continue to agree with Joel Mark’s expanded explanation. I do not believe that being able to correctly state the doctrine of the Trinity, much less assent to it, is the basis or a basis of Salvation. Jesus certainly did not say so or explicitly teach the doctrine. (Although it can be gleaned from what He taught.)
I am certain that my faith in Jesus Christ and God’s grace were sufficient to save me even when I doubted the doctrine of the Trinity. I believed in God the Father and in God the Son and in God the Holy Spirit, but I just could not understand how three Persons could be one Deity. I could not take it on “faith” just because church councils said so; instead, I had to discover that God’s word did indeed teach it and that there is a sort of logic to it once you have the right perspective.
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That it’s possible to be confused about the Trinity and be saved is true, but irrelevant.
Jakes is not some pew-sitter who hasn’t been able to make it out just yet. Nor is he someone who doesn’t recognize his deviation from orthodoxy — he’s a minister in a denomination with an officially heretical stance on a central point of doctrine.
He’s actively been teaching false doctrine, resisting correction on it, and misusing scripture to justify it, for decades. So that’s something different than “this is all very hard to grasp and I can’t blame anyone for being unclear on it.” This is inviting someone with an entrenched heretical position to take a platform in an orthodox setting.
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I was raised in a tradition that not only denied the Trinity and also the very deity of Jesus but also ridiculed those who believed in either.
As such it was very difficult for me to come to even a conceptual understanding of the Trinity much less belief in it. However over the course of time and lots of study I came to the inevitable conclusion that the orthodox doctrine of the Trinity is the most correct view based on Scripture. My belief in the Trinity grew in tandem with my understanding of Scripture.
That being said I agree completely with Joel Mark’s view of the subject and with his approach to teaching the doctrine of the Trinity to others.
I am eternally grateful that God doesn’t base a persons salvation on a perfect understanding of doctrine because if He did I would have remained lost forever!
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“he’s a minister in a denomination with an officially heretical stance on a central point of doctrine.”
This is a problem indeed!
I can only hope that the issue will be debated in a respectful manner in the Elephant Room and hopefully some of the viewers will come away from it with a greater understanding of the doctrine.
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I’m not putting doctrinal assent at the foundation of salvation, any more than James does with works. Rather, I’m agreeing with James and the apostle John that there are some things that inevitably result from salvation.
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I thought the questions were against MacDonald though…since he seems to agree with Jakes when it comes to the Trinity?
By the way, no one has a full understanding of the Trinity, that’s impossible I would say. There is always a difference in believing it to be true vs. understanding how it works…
Jakes denies it’s truth, while Macdonald may do so as well, and if that’s the case, it’s a useless endeavor anyway.
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What does this have to do with race? This question didn’t even occur to me at all as some sort of setback for ‘black evangelicals.’ Why do we keep having to draw attention to the distinction as if there IS a distinction? We are all one in Christ, unless we are not in Christ! Jakes is not in Christ just like any number of white Oneness Pentecostals are not, because they do not believe what Scripture says. It matters not what the skin color is. This whole article only serves to LEND CREDIBILITY to the idea that there is something special about one’s skin color. Good grief.
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“I would create a public event where a couple of white Calvinist pastors publicly argue against a well-known and respected black pastor in Pentecostal circles.” This whole thing presupposes that’s what they’re going to do. Have you EVER seen any of these guys confront the ‘bad boys’ they invite to their conferences? You are one naive and sheltered person if you think so. The only people, sadly, I have ever seen do something to rock the boat like that are John Macarthur, Ken Ham, and possibly now Mark Dever, since he has apparently pulled out of participation in the Elephant Room.
It just doesn’t happen. They will never corner him, they are there to engage in a spirit of ‘mutual challenge’ and focus on what they have in common. Instead, Macdonald is interested in slamming confessional people who ‘hide behind their walls of doctrinal orthodoxy.’ He’s not going to challenge Jakes, any more than Piper challenged Warren.
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“MacDonald could have chosen from dozens of black pastors who have differing views but instead choose Jakes to display, before a mostly white audience, a de facto representative of the black church.”
Who knows why MacDonald chose Jakes, but it probably has nothing to do with trashing black churches in America before a white audience.
If I understand Anthony’s point, it is that some people feel black churches have been stigmatized for bad doctrine (maybe like Rev Wright’s) and would like to change that perception. That’s fine.
I feel the same way as Christians are always portrayed on TV as crazy and conservatives as stupid. Documentaries on controversial religious subjects always choose fringe elements who least represent the mainstream Christian perspective. But …
Is there any evidence that MacDonald did this for the reasons Anthony accuses him of?
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Frankly, I don’t see an accusation toward McDonald in there. I think Anthony is suggesting that it’s a secondary unintended consequence of a very poorly thought out action. Had he invited an orthodox person, the effect would have been to leave a positive impression of black theologians in the mind of his audience. Having invited a heretic, the effect is the opposite, at least upon those with discernment. I don’t think Anthony’s claiming intent, just effect.
I know he starts out with “If I wanted to turn away…” but I don’t think he’s suggesting that McDonald intends this, just that *if* someone wanted that, this would be a great way to do it. It’s a common rhetorical turn, to say “If I wanted to (do something I really don’t want to do) I’d do this (because whether I intend it or not, it sure works that way.)”
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Isn’t it strange that Anthony doesn’t criticize those black churches or black pastors for their bad doctrine? Rather he blames others. Our president always does the same thing. Coincidence? Or is this blame game part of black theology?
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I see it as Anthony lamenting the fact that Blacks with good doctrine can’t get more exposure in Christian circles.
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“Isn’t it strange that Anthony doesn’t criticize those black churches or black pastors for their bad doctrine? ”
Actually, he’s done that quite a bit. And I don’t know what you call his whole stance toward Jakes and his denomination in this piece, if it isn’t criticism for his bad doctrine?
And I agree with Fuzzyface. The point isn’t to trash McDonald so much as to lament a missed opportunity that will have a negative effect, instead of the positive one that could have been created. In either case, it’s a side effect, not the main point of inviting a particular person to speak in a forum, but that doesn’t make it less of a real effect.
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I find this statement offensive: “MacDonald could have chosen from dozens of black pastors who have differing views but instead choose Jakes to display, before a mostly white audience, a de facto representative of the black church.”
How is Jakes a representative of the black church any more than MacDonald is a representative of the white church? What does skin color have to do with a discussion of the Trinity? And I think T.D. Jakes can handle himself, I don’t think he needs to avoid debating two white pastors so that it doesn’t look bad.
This is also a whiny comment:
“So far there is little expectation that the concerns of Anyabwile, Andrews, and Carter will be addressed…black Gospel Coalition members and evangelicals might be justified in concluding that mainstream leaders like him find their concerns irrelevant and not worthy of consideration.”
What makes you think that the concerns are not being addressed or considered? Because he doesn’t agree with you? Is the only way to show that your concerns are “relevant” is if they’re put into practice? “If you don’t agree with me, you must not be listening?” How condescending.
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DGAJ,
Do you mean that T.D. Jakes can handle himself by avoiding directly answering questions on the Trinity? If so, I agree.
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