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Joe Paterno, justice, and eternity
Conflicted. Complex. Complicated. Such are the feelings conjured up by Sunday’s death of legendary college football coach Joe Paterno at the age of 85.
During his 46-year tenure as head coach at Penn State, “Joe Pa” was known for his utter integrity in a sport full of scandals and cheaters. He earned his nickname by being a fatherly figure who cared more for his players than he did about winning. Penn State never committed any major NCAA violations. The school recruited legally and honestly. Players graduated. And the Nittany Lions did win games. Lots of them. At the end of his career Paterno was the winningest coach in NCAA Division I football history.
But it is the end of his career that so complicates matters. When he was forced to step down as coach earlier this past season due to the heinous child molestation scandal at Penn State the circumstances drove many to disregard his entire legacy as a coach and mentor. And it almost seems justified when one thinks about the alleged horrors committed against those boys by former Penn State assistant coach Jerry Sandusky and the knowledge that Paterno didn’t speak up to stop the events when he could have.
But how are we to think about Joe Pa? How are we to respond to the life of a man who did so much good for so many young men but failed to protect the “least of these” when they most needed a protector? And, most importantly, how does our Christian faith direct us in these understandings?
Conflicted. Complex. Complicated. There is no single side to the memory of Joe Paterno any more than there is to any other person. He was good and he was bad. He did great and wonderful things for hundreds and thousands of people, and he failed miserably in a moment of great need. But beyond this is the reality of eternity. Defining the reality of Joe Paterno cannot be limited to the space between birth and death but must be recognized as eternal.
The cry for justice in Paterno’s last days was loud and passionate by many: He must be held accountable for his passivity and complicity in the harming of those children! And so he must; he deserves justice. Thus, I ask this question: Would you rather Joe Paterno face the courts of Pennsylvania or would you have him face the court of the almighty God? Is the justice of God good enough? Does it satisfy the cries for justice and punishment by so many? Indeed it must, and if it does not then it is not justice that is sought but vengeance. And whose is vengeance but the Lord’s?
Do we believe that Jesus could have forgiven Joe Pa? I do not know if Coach Paterno submitted to Jesus, if he was a follower of Christ during his life or at the end. But if Christ could have claimed him and forgiven him, should we not also be able to do the same? Can we reflect on his life and legacy with grace, even if it is conflicted grace?
In light of this grace we must be willing, not to besmirch his legacy with our vitriol and hatred, but to know that our God is a consuming fire and all Joe’s evil has been dealt with. God is just and every sin will be paid for. God is gracious, and for those who put their faith in him every sin has been paid for. I do not know whether Joe Paterno’s sin was covered in the blood of Christ or whether it is being paid for throughout the rest of eternity. Let the legacy and memory of Joe Paterno, conflicted as it is, be a humbling and sobering reminder of the need for God’s grace and the reality of His justice.
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I do not judge Paterno’s salvation. I know more about him now than I ever did while my son was a Penn State student. But I’ll quote something I heard the other day:
“Sometimes we judge ourselves by our good intentions. Others judge us by our last worst act.”
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Have you ever called the police or child protective services on anyone? As a teacher, I did. It is hard to do! And I didn’t know the father.
Was the girl telling a story or making it all up? I occasionally wonder what happened. I’ll have to wait for Heaven to find out… if then.
How hard would it be to turn in a friend, a co-worker, the guy who was most responsible for the best seasons of my football program.
To top it off, Paterno probably found this whole idea repulsive and unbelievable. Most men his age did/do.
Joe Paterno was judged in the court of public opinion by the same MSM that I find so one-sided and unfair. The same MSM that lets Barney Frank off but slaps the hand of President Clinton. The same MSM that prints the name of the CIA agent who questioned Khalid Sheik Mohammed even though it is against the law.
I would rather be judged by God in Heaven than by man on earth.
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Piper said, “Let the legacy and memory of Joe Paterno, conflicted as it is, be a humbling and sobering reminder of the need for God’s grace and the reality of His justice.”
We should also let this be a “humbling and sobering reminder,” that we too will leave a “legacy and memory.”
May we Christians pray for and show grace to Paterno’s loved ones, and hope that he rests in peace.
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God will make his own decisions.
As for Paterno’s legacy. It is made by trophies in the student union building. Five years from now, no one will remember what the MSM or anyone else said about Joe Pa. He will likely have something on campus named for him.
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It’s also likely that when the obstruction cases go to trial, it’s going to become evident that Joe Pa should not be tarred with “enabling” what he had little power to stop, was not officially responsible for, and did in fact deal with through the appropriate channels to the extent he was informed about it. What IS the responsibility that you have toward ensuring that someone who doesn’t work for you and isn’t part of your organization stops doing what you were told second-hand that he is doing?
More moral outrage than he appeared to show and more vigor in pursuing the matter? Probably that’s a fair criticism. That doesn’t translate to it somehow being Paterno’s fault that Sandusky “wasn’t stopped.”
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Barnabas, welcome to WORLD! May this be your first article of many.
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“To top it off, Paterno probably found this whole idea repulsive and unbelievable. Most men his age did/do.”
I have an older relative who lost a grandchild he was fostering to very bad lifestyle choices — and I believe that part of what happened was that coming from his generation and the relatively clean upbringing he’d had and the life he’d lived, he just didn’t see the dangers before they got to be more than he could save her from. So though I’ve seen this line of argument made about Paterno and seen it pooh-poohed by the “oh, come on, grown men know about this stuff” crowd, I think it’s plausible.
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“the knowledge that Paterno didn’t speak up” I know the point of your article is not to detail the sequence of events surrounding the scandal, but I wish you would have phrased this line differently. I think it is misleading, just as much of the liberal media has been misleading. The fact is he DID speak up. He told the head of the psu police department. Perhaps he should have followed up more, but he was not a mute accomplice directing a cover up. I think this article, while well intentioned, just contributes to maligning a man’s character. I should think that World would be above that.
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This is a wonderfully sobering piece… the court of public opinion can (and will) say what they want but the ultimate justice for Paterno has already come at the hand of the Father. I cannot look at the situation in an unbiased manner… my grandmother practically idolized Paterno and I’ve always admired the program in a similar manner (Paterno was successful in the business of growing men, something good coaches should aspire to be). The events were disheartening but I refused to pass judgment because the facts of what he actually knew and did were blurred. Did he know the true extent of the incident? Did he report what he knew? Did he follow up? Let’s face it, if he was told that his assistant coach thought that something was going on in the shower and if he reported it as such to his boss and the guy who has direct oversight of the University Police, it is clear, at least in my mind, that there’s nothing wrong there. And if he followed up and his boss told him that they had looked into the matter and that they felt no criminal action was necessary, then I fault him in no way for leaving it at that. There is a lot of head scratching facts and circumstances that have yet to surface. It’s sad that Paterno won’t be around to defend his name but a man’s reputation is certainly worthless in God’s court. I pray that Paterno realized that before his passing… those statues don’t mean much to God. His salvation depends only upon the one who died to cover his sins.
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Barnabas claims he doesn’t need to remember Joe as a good guy or a bad guy, because that’s something that only God can judge, and He will, or has already, so Barnabas doesn’t need to worry about it.
Nevertheless, “Joe Paterno’s legacy” is important. Everyone wants to remember him as good. Why so? We each have work enough with our own legacies. What profit is there to me in someone else’s when I bow before the Judge? Meanwhile, we pay lots of money to a professional judiciary to save ourselves the headaches and the dirty work of needing to pass judgement on earth.
Barnabas doesn’t say it, but I suspect that what he means by “Joe Paterno’s legacy” is our faith in the righteousness of our social system and its patriarchal leaders. Conservatives need to tell themselves that if only the underclass and the undeserving poor adopted the values of the football program at Penn State, they would lift themselves up and be like Joe Paterno and/or Jesus.
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10. So this is the conservatives fault? Did you hurt yourself with that stretch?
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We all will have mixed legacies. Think about it.
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Players graduated
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That is Joe Pa’s legacy
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Nobody needs to apologize for Joe Paterno. He was one of the great college coaches. A Brown grad, he had high respect for academics and over the years contributed about $4 million to various academic departments.
On the Sandusky scandal, when he was told of the shower incident, he reported it to higher authorities ai Penn State who did nothing about it. The spineless board at Penn unjustly dismissed him this year for political cover.
Just now lesser people including moralistic Christians are getting off bringing a great man down.
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Sure he failed to follow up on allegations of child molestation, effectively enabling Sandusky to continue his crimes, but on the other hand, he won a lot of football games.
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How many children would not have had their lives destroyed if Paterno had cared a little more about making sure the shower incident was followed up on, rather than letting Sandusky continue to stalk children in Penn State’s facilities? Paterno was being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to coach buff guys throwing a ball around, while students hoping for an education had to go into massive debt to pay the bloated salaries of administrators and coaches. What the heck does football have to do with a world-class research and teaching university? I say tear down Beaver Stadium and replace it with a memorial to the children whose lives were destroyed (instead of caring so much about the stupid football games). Or at least let the victims decide what should be done about all the trophies and JoePa’s legacy at Penn State. The victims whose victimization might have been stopped (and who nobody here seems to care much about) should rightly be the ones to judge Paterno’s sins of omission.
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it is amazing if Joe Pa boss’s would have done their job. Joe Pa would have been very as one of the hero’s, but because his boos (who are also charged with a crime) did not do their job. Joe Pa is view as one of the bad guys…
I will remind everyone Joe Pa was not charged with any crimes…
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Sails says – The spineless board at Penn unjustly dismissed him this year for political cover.
If we go back in time to that week, it’s clear that Paterno left the Board no choice. After the scandal broke, Paterno said, in essence, “I’ll be the one to decide when my employment ends.” He didn’t say it in those exact words, but he said it by dictating to the Board that he would retire at the end of the season. For decades the Board had to obey Paterno because of his popularity, but the tables had turned, and Paterno forgot that he worked for Penn State, not the other way around (kind of like when Gen. MacArthur forgot that President Truman was his superior and tried to dictate plans to the President). JoePa backed the Board into a corner where it was left with no choice at that moment but to reassert its authority and say, “No, you work for us. We’ll decide when you leave. And that time is arrived.” I applauded the Board for setting matters right, and I still do. That was the moment when they finally stopped being spineless.
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Buzzy
Please the Board knew about this for a while. They did nothing about. They used it as a reason to fire Paterno. Now the board is facing people and their turn to be fire is next… Every one of them are going to be removed for failure to deal with this issue.
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16. College football brings in more than it cost, so those buff guys who throw balls around are actually helping the other students out.
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Buzzy, Joe Paterno happens to have been a rather great man whom a few mediocre men made the mistake of dismissing. The trouble with a lot of board bureaucrats is that they lack backbone in the face of adversity.
Blaming Joe Paterno for Sandusky’s execrable sodomy is absurd. Get real.
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I know that child molestation is a terrible crime but it is so bad that we need to punish as many people as possible weather they are guilty or not.
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Sails – I dare you to look the victims in the face and give them that “logic.” Please, also, read my post before responding. I did not blame Paterno for what Sandusky did, but for what Paterno failed to do (hence my use of the term ‘omission’). When it mattered most, Paterno fumbled the ball. And in the end, by trying to dictate to the Board the terms and timing of his retirement, he showed, not greatness, but that he was an overpaid, arrogant old man. Sorry but those are the facts. Give up your Paterno idol-worship and get real yourself.
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Kbells – so it’s all about money, even if that means ignoring the obvious and allowing children’s lives to be destroyed by raping them. Penn State’s football program should be elminated forever. And they probably won’t even have the decency to take a single year off. What a messed up world!
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And if the money is so helpful to the students, why are they leaving college with mountains of debt that they’ll never be able to repay, and little chance for a job? Not to mention that the extra money football brings in has a corrupting influence over the whole system, and by that I mean not just Penn State.
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Pastor Roy – I will remind everyone Joe Pa was not charged with any crimes.
We know that. The issue all along has not been whether he did was was legally required (he did), but whether he did what was morally required (he did not).
Now the board is facing people and their turn to be fire[d] is next.
Yes, that’s true, and I hope you’re right.
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Buzzy – do you know who state that Joe Pa fail to do what is morally right….It was not the Judge or the lawyer bring charges or the cops that were looking Sandusky..
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Pastor Roy – all those people (judges, prosecuting attorneys, police) are concerned with the legalities and naturally would not see any need to comment on whether JoePa did was was morally required of him. The legalities are more cut-and-dried, whereas the morality of his inaction is more a matter of opinion. With that said, however, I have not read a single commentator who thinks JoePa did what was morally required. And I think also that, given what he knew, and that he also knew that Sandusky continued to lurk around the Penn State facilities for years and years after the incident involving molestation of a boy in the shower, simple common sense dictates that he did not fulfill his moral obligations to the victim of that incident or the further child victims whose victimization was enabled by JoePa’s silence. Perhaps that is why all the commentators I have read have been unanimous in saying that JoePa did not do what was morally required.
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Pastor Roy – all those people (judges, prosecuting attorneys, police) are concerned with the legalities and naturally would not see any need to comment on whether JoePa did was was morally required of him. The legalities are more cut-and-dried, whereas the morality of his inaction is more a matter of opinion. With that said, however, I have not read a single commentator who thinks JoePa did what was morally required. And I think also that, given what he knew, and that he also knew that Sandusky continued to lurk around the Penn State facilities for years and years after the incident involving molestation of a boy in the shower, simple common sense dictates that he did not fulfill his moral obligations to the victim of that incident or the further child victims whose victimization was enabled by JoePa’s silence. Perhaps that is why all the commentators I have read have been unanimous in saying that JoePa did not do what was morally required.
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KBELLS So this is the conservatives fault? Did you hurt yourself with that stretch?a
Yes, the Penn State fiasco might be the fault of “social conservatism” or what I called your cultural ethos and patriarchal heros.
We liberals have our own characteristic vices, which I’d be happy to address when the occasion calls for it. Actually, now that I think of it, my contributions to this thread already reveals the nature of my own typical flaw — the liberal’s lack of loyalty to demographic membership. What Joe Paterno did or what happend to him don’t conflict me in the least, as they bother Barnabas Piper. I acknowledge the defect.
But conservatives have defects, too. Chief among them is the compulsion to blame all the marginal effects of their cultural system (say child abuse) on individuals rather than on their system of values and social organization. There’s nothing wrong with the ethos (say the football program) but only with bad participants. That habit of thinking is a vice.
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SM- so for example, when conservatives (which is a very broad term, just as liberal is) oppose, say, state socialism, or big government with intrusive and overreaching bureaucracy, or interference by government or private entities with free-market competition and the price signal system, it’s because of certain specific bad people involved in those systems, and not because they think there is anything wrong with socialism, intrusive bureaucracy, monopolization, price-fixing, oligopolies, cartels, crony capitalism, and the like? Perhaps you paint with too broad a brush. I consider myself conservative, but believe the college football “cultural ethos” is destructive to the true purpose of a teaching and research university, especially with all the money it brings in, which has a corrupting influence (see posts 16 and 24).
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30. So why are you liberals working on the pedophilia problem in Hollywood?
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Buzzy I never said it was about the money. You brought up the money, was just correcting your assumption that football cost the schools money. On the contrary it makes the school money. It is not taking one penny away from any hardworking in debt student.
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32. That should be “why are you liberals not working on the pedophilia problem in Hollywood?”
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kbells; I’m sure folks are. Everybody in the business knows about casting couches and all that.
But who do you suppose is working on this dirty little secret?
http://blackcollarcrimes.com/tag/sexual-assault/
If you go to their home page you will see a more impressive list over a relatively short period of time.
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35. Really who’s working on it? The closest thing to a response from Hollywood I’ve seen on this issue was to give Roman Polanski an Oscar.
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Arcadia, I’m not sure I understand your question.
Who’s working on it?
Apparently the police and the prosecutor and the grand jury and all those people.
Dirty little secret? Then how come it’s in the courts and everyone who clicked on that link just read about it?
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Wow,
Its amazing how wrong everyone outside the PSU community is about this story. Joe did not harbor a child molester. He got a very ambiguous report from a graduate assistant coach and did exactly what the university protocal told him to do. He reported it, not only to his immediate supervisor as required by law, but also to the vice president of the university that oversaw the Univeristy Police (A real police force by the way, not just glorfied Security Guards). Its not Joe’s fault that they saw no need to further investigate. By the way, Sandusky was banned from bringing kids on to campus after that fact and there is no evidence of any further molestations until Sandusky met “Victim #1″ while volunteering at a high school 30 miles away from Penn State. Joe action likely did prevent further abuses. Also, Remember that Jerry Sandusky was not just a bored retired coach who hung around the University to attempt to relive his glory days. He was the founder of a very large charity to help disadvantaged youths. His reputation as one who helps children was immpeccable. Anyone hearing of an indiscretion by Jerry for the first time would naturally think its just a misunderstanding. If Paterno really wanted to cover this up, he would have never told Curley and Schultz in the first place.
Remember that Paterno did not witness anything, and the laws are drawn up to keep child abuse investigations confidential and to prevent parties that are not directly involved (like Paterno) from personally investigating and compromising the rights of confidentuality for the victim and due process for the accused. Think of how many times, people are charged with crimes where it appears they are clearly guilty but end up getting off due to a technicality or tainted evidence.
Even if Paterno did pull a Jack Bauer and get Police involved on his own, it is still unlikely Sandusky would have been nailed right there. Child rape is one of the most heinous of crimes, but the Bill of Rights still pertains to the accused, and we just can’t lock someone up and throw away the key because “there’s a chance he may have raped a child”. In the 2002 incident, there was minimal evidence, no victim identified, and McQuery was very unsure of what he just saw. When Sandusky was first investigated in 1998 (There is no evidence whatsoever that Joe Paterno knew about this investigation), there was an actual victim, Police were involved and the DA still did not press any charges. In fact, when Sandusky was finally arrested, it was not until approximately 3 years after the grand jury investigations was started when the Clinton County high school student first went to the police.
Joe Paterno was great man who did many great things for the univeristy, for the community and people in general. Its worth noting how he handled his unjust firing with complete class and insisted that Penn State students focus on praying for the victims rather than get outraged over him. Its too bad the media could show any of this class and made Joe a scapegoat just so they could have thier big story.
God Bless JoePa
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Arcadia,
Every church I been involved with vetted and did background checks on all new employees and youth workers. Its not like they can just submit a hair sample and have it “test positive for sex offender”.
It seems atheists and agnostics think that having a church leader be exposed as a sexual predator should shake our faith in God or something. But, remember the Bible does mention “Satan masquerading as an angel of light” and also warns us about hypocrites and wolves in sheeps clothing.
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Kbells – I’m not convinced any of the “extra” money goes to help students. If that were the case, it would be hard to explain why college is so much less affordable now than it was before all the football-mania and commercialism of it that we see today. Plus, have you seen the exhorbitant salaries football coaches get in big-time college football? It’s obscene, especially when students are leaving college with an unbearable debt burden. Under these circumstances, I’d think you have the burden of coming forward with some data to back up your claim that college football yields a net financial benefit to the average student.
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I wonder how Mountain Man knows who is “outside the PSU community” and who is part of that community? Perhaps his theory is that anyone inside the community must necessarily see JoePa in the same glowing terms as he does, and furhter, as morally innocent in this whole debacle. If that is his theory it would be wrong, as a member of my immediate family is a conter-example.
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BUZZY #31, the answer to your question is yes. Sometimes, or often, conservatives look for vindication of their beliefs in the personal sins of liberals. I could give examples. Nevertheless, it’s no vice to choose one ideology over another, and Conservatives do have smart and sophisticated rationales which don’t depend on the character defects of liberals. You’re very right about broad brushes. The point I’m making is a familiar truism, not a law of science. If you look at it again, I think you’ll find that your question doesn’t affect the validity of the alleged vice of casting personal blame for the marginal effects of one’s own system.
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#29 Buzzy
“Perhaps that is why all the commentators I have read have been unanimous in saying that JoePa did not do what was morally required.”
What is “morally required?” Turning in allegations of lawbreaking to the proper authorities? Vigilante justice?
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40. http://businessofcollegesports.com/2011/06/20/which-football-and-basketball-programs-produce-the-largest-profits/
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Yes, I too, wonder what was “morally required” here.
Here you have a guy who does not work for you, or even the organization you work for, whom you are told is doing something on the property of the the organization you work for and he uses for a different purpose.
You report what you know to the local police (and yes, as has been pointed out, the PSU campus police is a REAL police force) AND to the people within that organization who have oversight over both you, and the program that the accused is conducting on the property of the organization.
I’d just like a clear picture of what further moral obligation someone has beyond *reporting a crime to the police* and *reporting it to the people in charge of the place where it’s allegedly happening.” Paterno was not the guy’s boss, nor a member of the organization Sandusky ran, nor in charge of the use of PSU facilities, nor the judge, jury and executioner of anyone responsible for criminal activity on the PSU campus, no matter how heinous.
Maybe there’s a really good answer to this question that I’m overlooking. I’d like to hear it. I’m not here to defend against the possibility that Paterno really blew it. I just don’t yet see how.
I understand that it’s more than plausible that the machinery and culture of the PSU football program would have tempted Paterno to overlook something he was in a position to deal with. The problem is, *there’s no indication that he was in a position to deal with it.*
It is the PSU administration that should bear the responsibility here, and how did they do it? They chucked out Joe.
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One of my family members is in a social group that includes a few celebrities, including a few A-list sports celebrities. I’ve developed a great skepticism when it comes to celebrities – not that they’re all bad (although fame and fortune have a corrupting influence that is hard to resist)- some, I think, are the “good people” we think they are (whatever that means – as Jesus said, only God is good). We, the public, don’t know anything. Hopefully, the courts will sort through the truth.
I have two children who were sexually abused (at our next-door neighbor’s house, one time). It has surprised me how much this affects a life. It is hard for me to read anything that does not treat sexual abuse profoundly.
Buzzy, your put college students into a victim role. They aren’t victims. I could not breathe under your protective wings.
Scroop Moth wrote: “(conservatives have a)compulsion to blame all the marginal effects of their cultural system (say child abuse) on individuals rather than on their system of values and social organization.”
Moth, any system, or person, that gives people too much power or hero worship gives an opening for abuse. Do you want a list of abuse perpetrated by the liberal’s ideal society?
“But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all men. He did not need man’s testimony about man, for he knew what was in a man.” John 2:24-25
God is the only good and perfect one and the only one who can save us from ourselves and others.
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Again I am disheartened at World joining the fray. How about some facts. Joe Pa was one of the only people who did the right thing. High school counselors (of one of the victims) knew facts and had them on record, but suggested no court action be taken and the mother went along. The state police sat on it for years. Heads of departments knew accusations and covered them up. A supposed eye witness left it up to others. Joe Pa (who had only second hand info) went right to the top of the authority structure! He was a scapegoat for PSU and the state police enjoyed blaming him to cover for their own mishandeling. He felt bad I am sure. I imagine when all the reality of it came down he second thought every move he made, but to sit around when he was alive or now that he is gone and pontificate is sickening. The man should be judged by his whole life. It is illogical to think he would not let a player on the field if his academics weren’t up to snuff (even if it jeopardized the game), but he’d cover up the criminal acts of a retired coach. Come on people. The press tried, convicted and hung him, but they will never see the court rule on their actions.
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All you Joe-defenders out there, think about this: JoePa found about about a boy being molested in his facility’s showers. He did the minimum that was legally required by notifying his higher-ups. Then he let the situation continue for eight more years without following up or asking any more questions, while he knew that the predator continued to frequent his facilities. Many more boys were raped during that time period who could have been saved if JoePa had followed up. He was more concerned with the reputation of his precious football program than the destroyed lives of children. As I said before, his actions vis-a-vis the Board of Trustees, and his whole career, show that, although he did many good things during his long career, by the end he was an overpaid, arrogant old man. So sorry that your little idol had feet of clay after all.
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48. What do you think he should have done? Stalked the guy?
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Buzzy, Joe was not my idol, but I will not allow media to execute any man in my mind. We as a society have the unfortunate habit of rising and falling on the words of the evening news. What you are referring to are media spins and comments and not facts of the case. It is your opinion and perhaps that of half of the counrty and the conceited media gods. Fortunately, fact and opinion are not the same thing. Joe Pa knew that and his dignity and humility in dealing with the renegade treatment he was given do in fact prove the character of the man. Arrogant? I hardly think so.
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Where child rape is concerned, the standards are higher than usual because the stakes are higher than usual. I think he should have followed up with the D.A. and the Department of Public Welfare to ensure that an investigation occurred. My opinion is not based on media spin but having read the grand jury presentment.
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My opinion is not based on media spin but having read the grand jury presentment.
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Which again back Joe Pa.. He was not charged with a crime. He did what we require, he turn over the infomation to 2 people. One of them was in charge of the Campus Polices…
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Pastor Roy – please re-read my response to you at #26. Plus you have to realize that JoePa essentially ran that town; if he wanted a further investigation into the possibility that children were being molested, it would have happened. Eight years passed and nothing happened, other than many more children’s lives being destroyed. Does anyone here, anyone at all, care about the lives of those innocent victims? I’m getting the feeling the answer is “no.”
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Of all the people who could have “followed up” on this, from the guy who saw the incident to the campus police to these kids families to the Joe pa bosses, why is Joe the one being blamed. He did his part but layers of other people didn’t. Oh but they’re not famous and don’t offer such an opportunity to those who hate college football.
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kBells – They are attack Joe Pa because he try his best to run a clean program. While other programs have problems with drugs and payin player to play.
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You know what, Buzzy, not wanting to attack innocent people doesn’t prove one doesn’t “care about the lives of those innocent victims.” I bet people on this blog don’t want you to go to jail or be shunned for life for this crime, either. But that doesn’t prove they don’t care; it simply shows that they don’t think you are legally or morally accountable for the wrong that was done.
These are completely different issues. Joe Paterno has never been accused of the crime, nor (to the best of my knowledge) is he legally accountable for any “cover-up.” He did report it to authorities, which seems from what I have read to have been all he could have done. You haven’t said what else you think he should have done. (What did he neglect?) Isn’t there room for disagreement on whether or not he did “all he could do” (and room for different people having different understandings of what happened here) without those who disagree with you being guilty of not caring about abused children?
I don’t have a horse in this race. I don’t follow sports, and don’t remember whether I’d ever heard of this coach before all this recent news; probably I had, but I certainly had no opinion one way or another whether he was a good coach or a good man. But to accuse those who disagree with you of not caring about children because they believe the coach did all that he could do is going too far. If others said, “Yeah, he probably could have stopped it, but at risk of losing a good coach,” then yes, they can be accused of putting children second. But if they say, “He had done everything he could have done, and was leaving it to the authorities from there,” that isn’t showing callousness to children’s welfare.
As heinous as child sexual abuse is–and having worked with abused children, I agree strongly that those who do it are despicable, and I wouldn’t be opposed even to execution or castration of proven offenders–it is wrong to cast the net too broadly and either assume the accused are always guilty or to assume that anyone anywhere near the criminal must also be guilty (even if we say that no, he might not be legally guilty, but we know he must be morally guilty). He might truly have done all he could do . . . and those who are suggesting that possibility might be suggesting it legitimately even if someday it turns out that there is something else he could have done.
(Again, I haven’t followed the case closely enough to say he DID do all he could have done, but the evidence I have heard seems to indicate that, and it’s certainly a legitimate option for people to believe, even people who think chilld rape is as hideous a crime as one can imagine.)
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Buzzy and Arcadia, the situations you two are complaining about are currently out in the open and being handled. However, the Hollywood problem is still ongoing and still being covered up. Why aren’t you guys out trying to follow up on those kids?
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Buzzy, I am a Mom. I have three children that I protect like a hawk! I am married to a man who was molested when he was a child and have seen some of the destruction it brought to his life. I hope (assuming the guilt of Sandusky) he recieves the highest penalty possible and know that God will execute thorough judgement. Your statements such as “…if Joe Pa had followed up..” are in fact opinion. This whole case did not rest on the actions of that man. It was so much more. Did you have personal access to Joe Pa’s heart and mind? Your judgement is unjust.
I am disguseted with the whole case and pray for those hurt and wept for the sorrow they suffered and the affect it will have for the rest of their lives, but that does not justify me playing judge and jury attacking a man who is not charged and who offered the best response as far as exposing the incident to the first steps of investigation in the jurisdiction of the campus.
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Did you have personal access to Joe Pa’s heart and mind?
Yes, he himself admitted he didn’t do enough to protect the children. In your zeal to protect his reputation, you all are disagreeing with Joe Paterno himself regarding what his obligations to the victims were. Why would you care so much more about that than about the kids that could have been saved if Paterno, by his own standards, had done what was right? I don’t get it. And the meme that keeps coming up over and over again about his not being charged with a crime is totally irrelevant to the question. I don’t know how many more times I can explain that. I’m done.
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Buzzy, our inclination as human beings is often “I could have done it differently/better.” Our conscience accusing us is not always accurate. Perhaps he could have done things differently. But how many adults say, “I should have paid better attention; I should have noticed more” when in fact they did all that any human could do, or all that any human being can reasonably be expected to do knowing what they knew at the time?
Also, sometimes in the initial stages of an accusation we are weighing two different things. Let’s say I have a hunch (no actual evidence, but just a hunch) that my neighbors might be abusing their children. Or I hear another neighbor say that those neighbors are abusing their children, and the accusation goes contrary to everything I know about them, so I’m inclined to think it is not true. I have two competing issues, both very important. One, if I turn in a false allegation, my neighbors might end up losing their children, at least temporarily. Two, if I don’t act, children might be hurt further. I have genuine obligations to both parties, and acting rashly can hurt a family, but so can failing to act. If I truly do not believe the accusation (whether or not it finally proves to be true), I might not do anything, and I might live to regret it, but that doesn’t mean I was “wrong” not to do anything. (Let’s say that the accused neighbors have always been exemplary citizens and the neighbor who accused them regularly comes home drunk, and is heard half a block away yelling at his wife.) Basing assumptions of his guilt based only on his own feeling bad about things is not enough to find him morally guilty. And more relevant here, it isn’t enough to find people on this blog morally insensitive to abused children.
Again, what do you think he was morally obligated to do that he didn’t do?
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Joe Paterno kept McQueary on his staff. Not only that, he promoted him. Either JoePa believed McQueary, and thus covered up for a child molester, or he promoted someone he thought lied about child rape. There is zero defense for Paterno, nade, none. And no amount of good football coaching can make up for what he did.
Also, Joe Paterno’s superiors were that in name only. He was Penn State. And now they get to deal with the consequences of deifying a fallen man.
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Ringbearer, is there another option? Like, perhaps, he turned the information in to the proper authorities and let them sort it out?
Jumping to the conclusion, “He had to have bad motives, and thus I’ll consider only options that put him in a bad light” is a bad argumentation style.
And, for the record, though I think he probably did everything that seemed necessary, my inclination is always to look at the possibility that a person’s motives were pure, even if it’s someone I don’t trust. If a person says, “President Obama hugged his wife after that speech because he wanted to look like a good family man,” instinctively I turn to, “Maybe he hugged her because he loves her and he wanted to share the moment with her.” Especially when we deal with motives, and the unknowable area of another’s heart, it seems to me safest to at least allow for the possibility the person’s motives might be pure, especially if their record is otherwise clean. I’d be slower to accept the possibility that Clinton locked the door when he was alone with a woman for good reason, for instance, because his history is that he can’t be trusted with women. But where reasonably possible, I like to consider that the person’s motives were good, and there are indeed alternative possibilities in this case than the two cynical ones you listed.
Um, for the record, his superiors-in-name-only ended up firing him, very possibly to save their own reputations at the cost of his, but he truly did work for them.
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It is so easy to look back and say, “He (you, I) should have done more.” What did he do with the information he had at the time? He reported it to the person(s) he thought would be doing something about it. He reported it to the one(s) who were in authority over him. He reported it, as required by law. He reported it.
Now, we know it was not dealt with properly. And so it is easy to say, “He should have…”
He did what he was supposed to do, and what he thought would take care of the problem. It didn’t, but did he purposely not care? It would be hard to come to that conclusion, considering his past integrity. But then, we are a society that wants to blame someone for not being perfect, for not being able to see all the details, all the consequences, for not being able to see the future.
I am disappointed that so many Christians fall into this category. I see Joe Paterno as a man who did the best he could, and sadly, it wasn’t enough. But I think the person who was saddest about that, deep down, was Joe Paterno.
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He didn’t do what he was supposed to do. Passing the buck is not responsibility. His motives are irrelevant, frankly. His inaction directly led to children being raped. You can’t use the excuse that he thought it was being taken care of when the guy who witnessed the rape was on his staff. The fact that he never followed up is proof enough that he didn’t treat it with the seriousness it deserved.
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Reporting something to the proper authorities is not passing the buck.
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He did not report it to the police. Those are the proper authorities. He reported it to someone who was supposed to be in charge of the campus police, but that’s not the same thing, and he obviously never contacted the actual police. So no, he didn’t report it. And with serious allegations like this, you don’t just get to wash your hands of it. He knew Sandusky was still hanging around campus. He did nothing.
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66. See post 38.
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Ringbearer, it has been mentioned several times on here, something I wouldn’t have known either, that in this case the campus police are “real” police. Thus, he did report it to the police.
In other words, he did exactly what any citizen is supposed to do in response to allegations of a crime. Not being a policeman himself, and not being a witness himself, he proably could not have reasonably done more. So I’m not sure why the American people are being judge and jury and convicting him.
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Cheryl – he himself said he could have, and should have, done more. Why is it so hard for people to admit that there is even a remote possibility that he didn’t handle the situation correctly? Or at least admit that a reasonable person could conclude that, even if you disagree with it? Why so hard-line on saying, No, he did everything just right, and nobody who says different has any basis to say so! None of us know all the facts, but I think, at a minimum, a reasonable case could be made that Joe Paterno was actually correct when he said that he should hav done more. I agree with Joe Paterno.
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