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Online poll: Who won Thursday’s GOP debate in Jacksonville, Fla.?
The four Republican candidates gathered tonight at the University of North Florida in Jacksonville, squaring off in second of two debates before next Tuesday’s Florida primary. If you watched the forum hosted by CNN, CNN en Español, the Hispanic Leadership Network, and the Republican Party of Florida, let us know who you think won in our unscientific online poll.
Also, in the comments section below, let us know your opinion of the candidates’ performance and the questions posed by moderator Wolf Blitzer, audience members, and online submitters.
WORLD Washington Bureau chief Edward Lee Pitts is closely following the race in the Sunshine State. Look for his upcoming WORLDmag.com Web Extra report.
Topic: Campaign 2012, News Desk
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back to top118 Comments to “Online poll: Who won Thursday’s GOP debate in Jacksonville, Fla.?”
100% again for RP
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I think Mitt and Newt should have been moved to the outer edges or perhaps a separate room and Ron Paul and Rick Santorum should have been at center stage.
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Hands down Rick Santorum
2nd Newt
3rd RP
4th Romney
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Pastor Roy,
Interesting order. RP “creeped” up into 3rd. If you don’t mind my asking why do you think Newt got 2nd? I actually preferred Mitt’s debating skills to Newt’s tonight even though I put both of them last.
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Mitt Romney, increasingly stands athwart the media, the real opposition against all of them. Paul is lightheartedly clever, but no real gravitas. Newt come across as too mercurially kooky, sad to say. One of the final questions doing Newt in was re Calista.
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Newt was way last, Romney took it to the house!
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Paulbots away!
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I agree with NOPM. Santorum may just hang around long enough to make something happen!
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nopm – RS showed that Romney is more in line with Obama. When it comes to helth care. An Romney has no idea what ad’s are running with his name attach to them.
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Ron Paul would be so much better off if he made his initial response AND THEN STOPPED TALKING.
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NOPM, why do you you Paul fanatics play games with this? Grow up and play even-handed.
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sorry should read
nopm – RS showed that Romney is more in line with Obama. When it comes to heAlth care. An Romney has no idea what ad’s are running with his name attach to them.
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RS showed that he knows what is need for this Nation. He will most likly not win it this time around but he will be in more better position come 2016.
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Games with what? I think Rick Santorum had some better answers in some areas than Ron Paul did, but I’m still not convinced Santorum is going to be fiscally conservative and he is to agressive (shall we say militarily) in his foreign policy.
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Ron-Paul fanatics can’t take the current grown-up heat, let alone that to come in August or November. They’re just playing campaign politics – not any more serious than Paul himself, or else they’d help him.
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Pastor Roy – I agree that Mitt saying he didn’t know what his ads said was bad. At the end of each, it says he approved it. Also, he used that line about wanting to fire someone again.
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twh – That is why I have him coming in last this time.
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nopm – I did not see how RS respondes were agressive (shall we say militarily) in his foreign policy.. To me RP show again that he wants to retreat from the world and when asked about how to deal with the nations that hate us. He sounded like Obama in his answer.
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Great debate, had some lighter subjects which are always a breath of fresh air. Romney came up on top becuase of some great responses to Newt’s attacks. Newt was a little off, more vicious. Paul was consistent as usual, but he just can’t get personal. He’s a doc, a vet, and a husband but there’s no warmth in his approach. Santorum was a little too agressive. Everyone knows about Romneycare and he just couldn’t leave the subject alone. Santorum refuses to see the difference between state level and federal level. Otherwise, the senator had some great answers about his family and faith.
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Buckeye – Santorum refuses to see the difference between state level and federal level
Do you really see a significant difference? I don’t. I think RS said it right. In Massachusetts you have to buy insurance or pay a fine if you want to breathe – and the state’s costs are going up because people opt for the fine. It’s the road to a European system.
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The best moment was at the end of the debate, when a CNN intern walked up on stage and handed Mitt a silver platter heaped high with $70,000 in cash. Mitt flashed his cheshire cat grin stuffed the money into his oversized patinated leather bag, checked his hairdo in the platter and vanished into the night.
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As RP said RS seems to see a jihadist under every bed, but it is even more than that — RS seems so aggressive that he will ensure more sign up every day. I think free trade and not meddling would go a long way.
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As dependably as usual, Ron Paul’s % is totally meaningless, much like his fanatical supporters. Yet, they don’t care that they hurt his credibility. What is that about? But it hasn’t mattered for a while and now even less.
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Apparently you have to disavow the candidate you support to win the respect of Louise.
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NOPM and all you RP lemmings, go ahead and vote, disable your cookies, vote, disable your cookies, vote, disable your cookies, lather rinse and repeat. While you stuff the ballot box, I’m going to share a little episode from 2008 for everyone else.
“Little Green Footballs,” would run an occasional poll on the candidates. Tongue in cheek, one evening LGF ran a poll to identify the worst candidate. Your minions were notified through your viral network, only they didn’t have all the information.
RP placed first, of course, as the worst candidate.
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Hi.
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#20 TWH, the big difference is that I don’t live in Mass. so I don’t have to deal with the healthcare. The liberals in Massachusetts like it apparently, let them deal with it. I don’t like the idea of government-run healthcare but Romney obviously won’t hurt anything because he knows that this is a state issue. Romney would be a good president because he would let the state do as they please. Satorum seems to think that everyting should be brought to the national level (e.g. marriage)
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I am a Ron Paul supporter who votes in these polls only if I watched the debate or read the transcript. I only vote once when I do vote. (Of course, if I were a Democrat I would get my dead relatives and my illegal alien maid to vote in the polls!)
What doesn’t make sense is why other candidates’ supporters don’t just do the same thing.
Exitramp, I never would have thought of disabling cookies to vote again. Would that really work?
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I didn’t watch the whole debate, just the live blogging on CNN and videos of some highlights.
Romney took Gingrich to the woodshed. Gingrich got the worst of every testy exchange that I saw. Even Gingrich’s fall-back pander of attacking the media backfired on him: Wolf Blitzer was having none of it, and he (quite correctly) said that if Newt was going to raise serious accusations about Romney he needs to be ready to defend them.
Good. I hope that’s a nail in Gingrich’s coffin. That and all the number of conservatives who have come out in the last few days, many of whom actually worked with him, and said he was unreliable and self-important and a terrible leader. I’d like to see Newt go crawl back under whatever rock he slithered from and never bother the public again.
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#28 multiple voting.
Typically someone who really wishes to stuff the ballot box uses a “bot” program that votes, then cleans the cookie cache. Because the website programmer can also check the unique IP Address of the voting computer, the bot overwrites the true IP with a spoofed (fictitious) IP before sending subsequent votes.
The site conducting the poll can prevent most multiple voting two ways:
1) Change the site so the voting user must log in. The web programmer can create some type of rudimentary record-keeping for each poll as part of the user’s data stored on the server.
2) Interpose a “CAPTCHA” (Distorted sequences of letters and numbers) that are difficult for humans to read and are almost indecipherable to most bots. The voter must manually enter the CAPTCHA sequence to record his/her vote. A JavaScript programmer can increase or decrease the distortion levels applied to many types of CAPTCHAs.
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It’s very interesting how voters think – Romney and Gingrich are the frontrunners, yet Santorum and Paul are actually the better candidates.
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The problem I have is that I am split between who has the better ideas and who would make the better president.
Ron Paul and Gingrich have the best ideas, but they are both a bit kooky. I voted for Ron Paul because he happens to be right about nearly everything. If his ideas were implemented, America could come back from the brink, but he would be voted down at every turn. But having either one as president would make me nervous. It would be fun, but nerve racking.
Santorum is just plain scary placing moral legislation over more important national issues. Why should government give manufacturing special benefits? He more than anyone wants to use government to advance his moral agenda, just like Obama.
Romney is a lefty, but he’s a very steady candidate. America would go no where with him as president, but going no where isn’t so bad considering where we are going now, i.e. straight into economic ruin. Obama is intent on radically changing America into a European style socialist state. No one will be able to stop him, since he has rigged the system and laundered billions for his campaign, but Romney has the best shot.
What we need is a candidate as steady as Romney, but who thinks like Ron Paul, whose ideas all come from America’s founding fathers.
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I wouldn’t say Romney got the best of Gingrich every time, but nearly every time.
I particularly thought Mitt’s comment that he would fire someone from his company who wanted to spend several billion of his company’s cash to get into space was funny. (Someone will now drag out the recent charge that Mitt likes to fire people.)
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Buckeye 27 the big difference is that I don’t live in Mass. so I don’t have to deal with the healthcare. The liberals in Massachusetts like it apparently, let them deal with it.
But Romney instituted government run healthcare in Massachusetts. Doesn’t that indicate Romney is simply a “plug-in” generic “leader”? Humorous example – Oh, my constituents want Sharia Law?
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NOPM @24 “Apparently you have to disavow the candidate you support to win the respect of _____”
Fill in the blank with those fanatically opposed to Ron Paul. This is probably a political tactic designed to shut down the discussion which demonstrates the actual difference between RP and the other candidates. And of course, there are some RP supporters who practically invite it. Still, there’s no call for the personal disparagement right out of the gate (@15).
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NOPM, I’m sorry, got my dander up after you start out with comment #1 and the multiple “voting” by Paulbots. Even though Paul’s % is never taken seriously anymore, so many of his supporters are not helping him. OR, I’m wondering now, could that be a “dirty trick” to make them look bad?
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Xion @32 Romney is a lefty, but he’s a very steady candidate. America would go no where with him as president, but going no where isn’t so bad considering where we are going now,
That has been my thinking also. And if I could bring myself to vote for anyone who supports the NDAA, I think I would vote for Romney for that reason.
But I can’t justify favoring anyone who supports that kind of increase of executive powers. We have seen with the Patriot Act that these increases don’t go away. Yet we keep voting for people who support them. If we are racing toward a cliff, the driver doesn’t matter if we keep providing the fuel for the journey by voting our tacit (and explicit) support of the destination.
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There’s nothing personal about it. As a group, Paul’s supporters hurt his case. But, then, of course, I’m perfect
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Yes, Louise, some of his supporters do hurt his case.
And I’m sure we’re all perfect in the same way you are. :–)
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Debra, which candidates are on the primary ballot in your state? Just wondering. Is it an open or closed election? Just Romney & Paul here, and it’s open for the time being.
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Louise – what would happen if most people write in none of the above would it get reported?
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I think free trade and not meddling would go a long way.
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Which ended up with Hitler taken control over Germany. This idea of retreating from the world and not encouraging Nations to do the right thing, will always end up with evil men coming to power.
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“As dependably as usual, Ron Paul’s % is totally meaningless, much like his fanatical supporters.”
Anybody hear a sheep in the background? I seriously keep hearing someone going “baaahhh”
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“Which ended up with Hitler taken control over Germany. This idea of retreating from the world and not encouraging Nations to do the right thing, will always end up with evil men coming to power.”
Irrational conclusion.
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I’m not sure the “wife” question was necessary, but I’m glad it was asked. We always do get 2 for 1, and the family picture of the Obamas can only be negated by a comparable family of his opponent’s. Calista does not belong in the White House.
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PR 41, I think the media would love that. Some states don’t allow write-ins for primary elections. For the general election, I don’t know what applies. But I wouldn’t waste my vote like that.
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A couple thoughts:
Santorum’s answer to the first lady question was AWESOME! She sounds like an amazing woman. He gets props for that. He also was resolute in his attacks on Romney, not letting him squirm away with clever rhetoric.
Wolf Blitzer should win some sort of award for actually moderating a debate and giving equal time!
Gingrich sounded a bit crazy with the moon-talk.
Again, I think that the only ones that come off as being genuine and having some good ideas are Santorum and Paul. I just disagree with some of Santorum’s fiscal and foreign policy positions.
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@40 Louise, Tennessee is an open (same-day affiliation) primary. And it looks like all 4 made it on. It’s my fist presidential election here in 25 years and the delegate process seems a bit convoluted to me, but as far as I can tell a clear majority vote will be winner take all, otherwise, it’s proportional.
Primary used to be held in February, but we’ve moved it back to March 6 (Super Tuesday).
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Irrational conclusion.
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No, it is not… When you with draw from the world like RP is talking about doing and stop trying to encourage nations to do the rigth things. Evil men come to power.
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RP keep trying to make it sound like we are using our Military to Force Nations to change and to force our will onto Naitons. An that is not true.
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I liked Newts answer when it came to Israel. Move the embassy to Jerusalem, this will send a clear message. That Jerusalem is the capital of Israel and will not be divide again.
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Worst questions overall from any moderator so far. I did not think Gingrich did well overall, but he was right to criticize Wolf Blitzer’s pathetic and petty questioning. And I was disappointed that Romney took the bait and stayed petty at one point.
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Santorum definately landed some effective punches on Romney. When Romney stated that we shouldn’t be upset about the Health care law, he clearly shows he does not have the fire in the belly that we need from the next president.
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If Blitzer asked me an inane and ridiculous question (as he did several times last night), I would simply presume that he asked, “What are the three biggest mistakes Obama has made in office?” and just answer as if that’s what he asked. I would repeat my alternative question as if that’s what I heard, say “good question,” and answer my replacement question. There are ways to put these petty leftist moderatators in their place without getting mad.
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Rick Santorum was excellent. He showed himself to be the most substantive candidate by far.
Buckeye, RS knows fully well the difference between state level and federal level, but he disagrees that a top-down heavy state-empowering health care system is good at either level. he is being consistent in his conservative convictions.
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Xion: Why should government give manufacturing special benefits?
Heck, even I can live with that. It creates more and usually better and more stable jobs than financial, retail service or other sectors. If the gov wants to allow multi-nationals to re-patriate their profits IN ORDER TO put up plants that make things that’s okay with me.
The craziest thing I heard last night was Santorum blathering about jihadist missiles in South America. No, wait, I forgot about Jerusalem. Some god “gave” it some people so we have to protect it? Yikes!
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Buckeye wrote; “Satorum seems to think that everyting should be brought to the national level (e.g. marriage)”
Nonsense. Where do you get the word “everything?” That’s a wild exaggeration. He does not think that at all and has never hinted such a thing. There are just a few issues, like defining marriage, that obviously OUGHT to be defined at that level. One can think that ans still have a smaller gov’t model that keeps many things (like massive gov’t healthcare) out of the federal realm.
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Santorum made the most cogent case yet for actually cutting gov’t spending. He understands the political process better than RP, I think, and I trust Santorum to actually get more cutting done in the real world than RP could (although I do believe RP would try). But promising and even trying something radically different is not actually getting it done.
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I trust Santorum to actually get more cutting done in the real world than RP could
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That is because Santorum is living in the real world, where RP has just ideas of the past that he claims to based on our Founding Father Views.
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Paul is the ONLY one not groping for power. He actually CARES about what happens to the American people.
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Joel Mark,
None of the candidates should even have to make a case for cutting spending. They should only need to tell us how much they will cut and where they will make the cuts. I think Ron Paul is the only one that would succeed in making substantial real world cuts. Everyone else will probably just nibble around the edges.
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NOPM wrote; “None of the candidates should even have to make a case for cutting spending.”
Huh? That’s bizarre. As a small gov’t conservative, I disagree with you strongly. Sure they should and I would not support one who did not make a good case for cutting spending, outlining how, when, where and more.
NOPM wrote; “They should only need to tell us how much they will cut and where they will make the cuts.”
Huh? That’s just grandstanding. They need to make the case and show they understand the process too. NOPM, we want more than just talk. We want real cuts actually done!
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This isn’t going away Paul fans. What now? Denial doesn’t seem to be working. Even if he would pull off some miracle and get the nomination, he’d be toast. Can you say “unelectable”? I can. This is just one more reason.
http://hotair.com/archives/2012/01/27/did-ron-paul-edit-those-newsletter-after-all/
“Those decades old newsletters just seem to keep following Ron Paul around like a bad penny or a stalker ex-girlfriend. And while it sometimes gets the Texas congressman peeved to the point of walking out of interviews when asked about them, it looks like the questions won’t be stopping any time soon. Three people, including one of Paul’s former secretaries, have come forward to tell the Washington Post that Congressman Paul was actually quite hands on when it came to the publication.
Ron Paul, well known as a physician, congressman and libertarian , has also been a businessman who pursued a marketing strategy that included publishing provocative, racially charged newsletters to make money and spread his ideas, according to three people with direct knowledge of Paul’s businesses…
But people close to Paul’s operations said he was deeply involved in the company that produced the newsletters, Ron Paul & Associates, and closely monitored its operations, signing off on articles and speaking to staff members virtually every day.
“It was his newsletter, and it was under his name, so he always got to see the final product. .?.?. He would proof it,’’ said Renae Hathway, a former secretary in Paul’s company and a supporter of the Texas congressman.
But it’s not just the secretary. A second person supposedly involved in the process – and this one is a bit more problematic because they “spoke on condition of anonymity to avoid criticizing a former employer” – claims that the use of racist comments and other highly controversial material was a deliberate marketing ploy. They go on to describe it as a way of capturing the environment of the times, including racial tension and fear of the government, and boosting sales by making the publication more provacative. He goes on to describe Paul as a “shrewd businessman” who knew that the highly charged editorials would make for “good copy” and higher sales.”
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I don’t even care about the newsletters at all. And the hype surrounding them is mostly a bunch of politically correct hooey. Paul is still the only candidate who will oppose the tyranny that both Democrats and Republicans are so willing to sign off on. Unfortunately many people seem to prefer tyranny to freedom. And people do get what they ask for.
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Debra,
You may not care, but black voters sure will.
And while you may see things as simplisticly as freedom versus tyranny, most of us don’t see it that way. To say that Paul is the only candidate for freedom, and that all others are tyrants waiting to happen, is silly. About as silly as me saying Paul is the only irrational candidate, and all the others are rational. Sure I could say it, but it would be as ridiculous as your statement.
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It seems like Paul always wins these polls but it doesn’t seem to translate to what people are really thinking. Who is doing all the voting?
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Rob,
Paul supporters have learned to game the system. As was mentioned above, it’s easy to vote numerous times on these polls. Most are honest and vote once. Many don’t have such qualms so you get people voting more than once. Paul supporters have quite a good structure in place. Another way they use message boards, I showed proof of it here in past posts. When ever a website puts up a poll, word goes out on the Paul message boards and they show up en masse to spam the poll. That’s how he wins, that’s how they pull it off. I view it as dishonest, and it demonstrates a serious lacking of character in SOME, BUT NOT ALL, of Pauls supporters. Some of his supporters are his worst enemy. No thanks.
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No one games the system better than the parties that create it. But it’s okay with me whoever wins. While I prefer Paul, I’ve talked with my family and we’ve agreed that we will be no better or worse off regardless of whether Obama wins or the establishment-anointed Republican. We’ll be fine either way. So ya’ll have fun choosing between dumb, dumber and dumbest [policy-wise]. Not much will change on our journey to the edge. See ya’ when we get there. ;–)
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Sorry to hear that Debra. I think you’re too pessimistic. And I know you’re not a prophet.
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Ha. No one would confuse me for a prophet, Louise, but one need not be a prophet to merely observe. The American people have apparently chosen to assent to the steadily increasing power vested in the executive branch. It’s the death knell of liberty. And by the time we actually feel the pain, it will be much too late to fix it with a ballot.
I’m not pessimistic. On the contrary, I plan to survive and survive well by putting my attention on things that can be changed. Remember the serenity prayer? Well, there is considerable wisdom in knowing what can and cannot realistically be changed. That’s one reason that I’m not as perturbed over this election as I might be otherwise. ;–)
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“When you with draw from the world like RP is talking about doing and stop trying to encourage nations to do the rigth things. Evil men come to power.”
Evil men come to power regardless.
We have been engaged since WWII, and how many more evil men have there been? Not less? Okay then.
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“RP keep trying to make it sound like we are using our Military to Force Nations to change and to force our will onto Naitons. An that is not true.”
I thought you said we can’t withdraw? If we are not withdrawn then our military is in other people’s faces and we are using it for leverage.
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“He understands the political process better than RP, I think, and I trust Santorum to actually get more cutting done in the real world than RP could (although I do believe RP would try).”
Until he votes to raise the debt ceiling again..OOOPS.
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AJ (67): … it demonstrates a serious lacking of character …
Frank: Really?
Voting multiple times in a two-bit, informal, unscientific online poll that the webmaster won’t even lift a finger to tighten up “demonstrates a serious lack of character”?
Man, you have higher moral standards than God Himself.
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If we are not withdrawn then our military is in other people’s faces and we are using it for leverage.
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Our Military is not in other people faces… and we do not use our military as leverage….
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We have been engaged since WWII, and how many more evil men have there been? Not less? Okay then.
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How many are no longer in power because we did not reteat from the world, like RP is wanting to do.
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“You may not care, but black voters sure will.”
I doubt it. Paul wants to end the war on drugs. You don’t think that alone would get minorities excited?
“Sorry to hear that Debra. I think you’re too pessimistic. And I know you’re not a prophet.”
Ever play the board game Risk, Louise? What happens when you spread your forces to thin, to far with no cards? You lose. It is impossible to win in the end.
So you have an American military that is spread across the globe, closing bases domestically, with unsecured borders, while being 15 trillion in debt.
The reason that the outcome is not prophecy is because we have repeated examples through out history.
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Frank, please, that’s a little like excusing the car theif who used the keys left in the ignition. A pathetic way to excuse cheaters. At least I understand know how you really feel about this website.
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No Thorn, I never played RISK. Sorry you see our military defense as a game.
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Louise – They believe that we have to many bases over seas. An RP wants to close all of them and remove all the soldiers and their families back to the States. which would leave a hugh void in many nations…. Who do you think will step in and fill the void after we withdraw from the world?
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“Our Military is not in other people faces… and we do not use our military as leverage….”
Yes we do. We put our aircraft carrier in Iran’s face.
We fly drones into Iran.
We fly drones into Pakistan and drop bombs.
We have bases all around the middle east and surrounding Iran.
Military leverage.
Do you care about a security guard with no gun, or do you care about the cop that has one?
“How many are no longer in power because we did not reteat from the world, like RP is wanting to do.”
How do you know they would have remained whether we ever entered or not? Hitler’s own men wanted him dead.
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Pastor Roy 80 – someone who wants a different kind of peace through strength. I give up.
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Has anyone actually proven that RP supporters vote multiple times? I realize many are just following the lead of their favorite republican candidates when they make these accusations, but just saying it doesn’t make it true.
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I should have said, A Different kind of peach through a Different kind of strength.
Much like an Obama SOTU talking point where he touted the benefits of companies returning to the U.S. because China’s manufacturing and labor costs are rising so much there won’t be a big enough difference between here and there.
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“No Thorn, I never played RISK. Sorry you see our military defense as a game.”
Are you saying I can’t learn about physics by playing baseball?
Risk is about world domination.
Here you go, the game of Risk.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_(game)
Besides, if that doesn’t help you, read The Art of War. Any force spread thin, far from home, with no money is a recipe for disaster. It’s not rocket science, it’s common sense.
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“They believe that we have to many bases over seas. An RP wants to close all of them and remove all the soldiers and their families back to the States.”
While reopening domestic bases and securing our borders…
What good are bases over seas if you can swim/walk across the border?
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NOPM, the Paulbots who do that are proud and brag about it. I caution, again, though, by giving some the benefit of the doubt, it’s possible those over-votes are just a “dirty trick.”
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“Who do you think will step in and fill the void after we withdraw from the world?”
Does not living in your neighbors house, mean that you have withdrawn from friendship, interaction, and so forth?
No it does not.
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Which ended up with Hitler taken control over Germany. This idea of retreating from the world and not encouraging Nations to do the right thing, will always end up with evil men coming to power.
******This statement, Pastor Roy, shows, once again, that you completely misunderstand Ron Paul. Completely. You couldn’t possibly miss the mark more.
And, it’s been pointed out to you in the past, and yet you continue to say it.
Very annoying, I might add.
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Louise,
Your behavior in calling those that simply disagree with you and like another candidate is very unChristlike.
Honestly, for shame.
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Tammy 90, where did I say that? I don’t recall even thinking to call fellow Christians unChristlike. You must have me confused with someone else. Or, I would take that back if said in the fever of debate.
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You couldn’t possibly miss the mark more.
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No, agian As I have point out in the past.. I have hit the mark… RP views of the world is based on the late 1930’s..Where the idea of what Hitler was doing had nothing to do with us. Because he did not attack us.
In RP world, pull back an do nothing as evil men take control..
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RP would leave us in a very week position, which is just as bad as Mr. Obama view.
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Roy, and what kind of peace in weakness would that give us over the growing and succeeding ambitions of China.
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My parents came to the U.S. for opportunity and in gratitude to a country that fought for them on their land. Not on U.S. land. But for other countries “over there,” more than once.
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Louise – What RP and his supporter seem to not to want to understand. If we withdraw from the world as RP has stated he wanted to do.. Nation’s like China and Russia, Iran etc will step up to fill that void.
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A great example of this is what is happen in South and Central America. Where we have withdrawn, China, Iran, Russia have moved in and we are the rise of more Nation’s fall into Dicatorship.
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RS last night talked about what happen in Honduras.
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Tammy 90, it’s been pointed out to me that I may have misunderstood that comment of yours. Please feel free to email me and we can come to Christian terms on this. I’ve never felt otherwise. OK?
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100!
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You’re a sly one, the Real. :–)
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Wow Thorn,
This was a low for you. I’m a little surprised.
“I doubt it. Paul wants to end the war on drugs. You don’t think that alone would get minorities excited?”
Did you realize how racist that would sound and type it anyway? Or did you just miss how it might come across? That’s low. Really low. Just wow.
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Louise,
I think you’re generally a nice person, but on threads like this, you call Ron Paul supporters all kinds of names … often before there’s even the slightest provocation to do so. That is what I meant was unChristlike.
And, Pastor Roy, the fact that you keep repeating falsehoods really does you no credit.
I simply have been amazed at the behaviors on WMB that I either ignored, or interpreted differently, before this political season began. I find it beyond depressing.
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LOUISE (78): Frank, please, that’s a little like excusing the car theif who used the keys left in the ignition. A pathetic way to excuse cheaters.
FRANK: Your reply simply reinforces my point. You really consider voting in an online poll that has *no stated rules or technology to reduce “cheating”* to be morally comparable to respecting private property? If I were casting multiple ballots in an actual political election, AJ’s charge of “dishonesty” and “a serious lack of character” would have merit.
LOUISE (78): At least I understand know how you really feel about this website.
FRANK: No, I don’t think you do. *Online polls are virtually meaningless to begin with.* They’re *worse* than meaningless when the websites that conduct them don’t even *attempt* to keep it to one vote per person.
Sometimes I vote in these polls, sometimes I don’t.
*Sometimes* I vote multiple times! But thats’s only if I visit the thread from different devices. Today I voted on this poll 3 times: once from my home PC, once from my work PC, and just now from my iPod.
*But that’s because these polls are meaningless.*
I truly don’t care about the results.
But I *do* care about people’s opinions here. That’s why I keep coming back.
And that’s why I don’t think you “understand know how I really feel about this website.”
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(Whew! Gotta keep these iPod posts shorter!)
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Oh, Frank, such nonsense. I’m sorry you seem to have the same attitude as your condescending wannabe presidential candidate. What a waste of time – thine and mine.
Tammy, you’re wrong.
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the Real AJ @65 &102,
You’re way too caught up in politically correct hooey, my friend. The war on drugs is widely believed to be a major cause of black incarceration and unemployment by those on the left and by libertarians as well (the ones who give a hoot about it anyway).
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–continued–
Is the Cato Institute too right-ish for ya’? Then try NPR or C-Span (google it) or better yet see what that bastion of African American left-wing reasonableness, Jesse Jackson, had to say just last year about the war on drugs:
Ron Paul need not worry about alienating the African American vote—-er, or rather that scant 10% who would even dare think of voting against a black man for President in the first place. And who knows, he might even be able to siphon off votes from some for which the devastation in their communities is of even greater import than the color of the man in the White House.
As an aside, I don’t buy all of the arguments against the War on Drugs. I think some of the difference in incarceration rates could be explained in other ways. However, the rates are drastic enough that one does wonder… And it would not be a bad idea to have drug laws returned to the States, and Federal involvement concentrated on interstate transportation and foreign import issues.
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It is members of racial minorities and their white advocates who complain that minority people are arrested and incarcertated disproportionately because of the War on Drugs. It is not racist to say so or to think that they would be happy for an end to that “war.”
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Has anyone considered the possibility that Ron Paul supporters are not actually voting twice or using robotic programs to vote multiple times? I would guess that there would, in that case, be THOUSANDS of votes for him, which would leave the other candiates with less than 1%.
Is it possible that lots of Ron Paul supporters are reading World Magazine online and voting one time each?
And how do we know that Romney or Gingrich or Santorum aren’t getting multiple votes? Again, they would be getting a much smaller percentage if each of their supporters voted once while Paul’s were voting dozens of times each.
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Debra, I pretty much agree with you about the war on drugs that we’ve been losing for decades. William F. Buckley long ago convinced me what a loser that is, including a misuse of scarce re$ources and time, both distracting from more serious matters.
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Kyle 110, those are good points I’ve been wondering about, too. We’ll never really know, and it doesn’t matter, except for the blatant disparity with the overall picture. In that context, the numbers look pretty weird, that’s all.
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Louise (106): I’m sorry you seem to have the same attitude as your condescending wannabe presidential candidate.
Frank: Paul, condescending? Please elaborate, or cite a few examples.
Also, explain just how multiple voting in a casual, no-rules, unprotected online poll is even close to being morally comparable to car theft.
I think this “issue” presents a great example of Eccl. 7:16 — “Do not be overly righteous or overly wise — why destroy yourself?”
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It’s a conscience thing Frank. You vote multiple times in polls you don’t even care about, just like the other supporters Paul inspires. Comparing quotes is a waste of time. Too bad Ron Paul doesn’t apply Eccl. 7:16 to himself.
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I gladly must acknowledge that no one here believes that ALL Paul fans play games with multiple voting in polls. It’s just the bad apples that have given that impression and reputation for the rest.
And so it goes for all of us. We’re only responsible for ourselves. The candidates can’t control their supporters either.
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Is it as easy to “stuff” an official state straw poll as it is to “stuff” the poll here at WMB? Probably not. But these results make it look like it. Either the box was stuffed (unlikely!!) or Ron Paul kicked butt in Arizona. Assuming 85% is considered “kicking butt” of course.
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Wow. Way cool. I can dig it.
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NW J,
Visiting family in Gig Harbor, & picked up the Seattle Times this morning to read the following:
LOTS of interesting (and encouraging!) info there!
(You planning on caucusing? WE are …)
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